⚽️THE FOOTY THREAD: PSG v Bayern

[fluid hips]

Tbvh, he has a point

Excuse the coming wall of text but just thought it's a great question that deserves a deep dive , also off the clock with nothing open so got time

Back then I feel like defending was taken a bit more seriously and you had a lot more quality across the board at every position in defense than you do now so you ended up having league golden boot winners having seasons with a little over 20 goals in the league which was considered outstanding then but might be overlooked nowadays.

Now you have fewer legitimately world class defenders and peoples perception of what a good defender is being a lot different. There's a lot more focus on what defenders can provide moving forwards now than back then.

Today your fullbacks are expected to be more like auxiliary wingers than defenders that defend first (hence the relatively recent concept of a 'wing-back') and your top CB's are expected to be able to pass the ball forward well and be much more comfortable in possession than before when their main and often only aim most of the time was stopping forwards and mids from scoring by all means.

That's why back then defenders just booting the ball into the stands was looked at a lot differently than it is now , defenders might get laughed at or considered not skillful nowadays when they hoof it out of play instead of keeping possession and trying to initiate a counter.

It's why it's become pretty tough to picture a defender winning top individual honors like a ballon d'or nowadays when it wasn't that crazy to see for the best defenders not that long ago. It's not to say that todays defenders are scrubs or anything, just that the game has evolved a bit.

All that has kinda, for a lock of a better term, distorted goal scoring numbers a little I feel. You've got forwards that might not be the most talented or technically skilled being capable of putting up some pretty great scoring numbers that were usually reserved for the best in the past off of mainly effort now.

You still had your all time great attackers putting up pretty high goal totals in the past but I feel like guys like Messi and Ron putting up video game numbers annually along with the changes in philosophy and tactics have kinda warped peoples perceptions of what's considered average and amazing for attackers.

So in a way I kind of agree with Roberto Carlos about it maybe being a bit tougher to score regularly in the past but that doesn't take away from the fact that we've witnessed some of the greatest attackers to ever live in recent times. Generational players would be able to put up numbers in any era imo.

All that said, it's kind of why I'll swear by OG Ronaldo and Dinho at their peaks, as the 2 best players I've gotten the chance to watch even though Messi and Ron have long surpassed them in terms of bodies of work and sustained/overall excellence for their clubs. Best =/= Greatest to me. They can be separate and across the sports I've followed, those titles often end up being held by separate people

Props to you for writing the same sentiments I share.

I can't be bothered to write all that on a message board

And to add to that, Cristiano and Messi are protected by refs.

Defenders in the modern game are a joke when compared with defenders before the 2010s

There is a reason Cristiano wasn't putting up those numbers at United. Defenders in the EPL back then actually defended and were tough as nails

These are your modern day "defenders"

 

[fluid hips]

*idiocy . Point is, you knew exactly what I meant. Any arguments I've had in here that were football-related dealt with stats. Obviously there are situations where the stats don't always show on paper, but in this case, they don't really fall in your favor. I haven't been on this site for a decade, much less posted in here for that long. Hell, I've been banned from the thread for the majority of that time , so not sure what you're going on about. I suppose you're another one of my fans

You got schooled. Take your L and keep it pushing playboi

 

[tomdiginson]

You got schooled. Take your L and keep it pushing playboi

Glad to see you're on my johnson per the usual. Chirping it up to ensure that you stay as my #1 fan.

 

[rolaholic]

^^^Yea the changes in the game are why I'm an AWB stan even though I rate TAA as one of if not the best in the world. Something about a fullback in the traditional mold in today's finesse centric world physically bullying more skillful wingers that I love

Also tbf, Ron started bossing the Prem too when he grew into his body and became pretty strong compared to his frail *** frame when he first got to England as a teen

Speaking of getting swole though...

The Prem isn't ready for leveled up Rash

Just hope he hasn't lost too much of his explosiveness getting big like what happened with Memphis

 

[fluid hips]

Still tryna save face after you got son'd. Cute

 

[fluid hips]

Glad to see you're on my johnson per the usual. Chirping it up to ensure that you stay as my #1 fan.

Still tryna save face after you got son'd. Cute

 

[rolaholic]

First time seeing that Rio tweet

 

[tomdiginson]

Still tryna save face after you got son'd. Cute

Still tryna save face after you got son'd. Cute

Save face for who ? You love me so much that you have to respond twice. Make sure to clean up after you're done.

 

[fluid hips]

^^^Yea the changes in the game are why I'm an AWB stan even though I rate TAA as one of if not the best in the world. Something about a fullback in the traditional mold in today's finesse centric world physically bullying more skillful wingers that I love

Also tbf, Ron started bossing the Prem too when he grew into his body and became pretty strong compared to his frail *** frame when he first got to England as a teen

Speaking of getting swole though...

The Prem isn't ready for leveled up Rash

Just hope he hasn't lost too much of his explosiveness getting big like what happened with Memphis

I've always maintained you can't be a good striker if you get swole.

The best strikers have to be lean with a low center of gravity. Like 6 feet tall or less.

Look at Lukaku when he bulked up and went to United. Once he got lean again and went to Inter, he was playing better

 

[fluid hips]

Save face for who ? You love me so much that you have to respond twice. Make sure to clean up after you're done.

This clown talking about I'm his fan but he subliminally brought my name up in an argument he lost to another man.

The definition of Idiocy

Hold this L in addition to the other L ICE CITY CF gave you

That's too many Ls in one day. Log off for the day playboi

 

[tomdiginson]

This clown talking about I'm his fan but he subliminally brought my name up in an argument he lost to another man.

The definition of Idiocy

Hold this L in addition to the other L ICE CITY CF gave you

That's too many Ls in one day. Log off for the day playboi

Look at you riding another man for e-reps and approval on an online message board. How low can you get? As mentioned before, clean your face up. You look nasty out here. Now go ahead and hit the report button like you normally do bird.

 

[Bantz Lord T]

This is something I would definitely say

 

[fluid hips]

Look at you riding another man for e-reps and approval on an online message board. How low can you get? As mentioned before, clean your face up. You look nasty out here. Now go ahead and hit the report button like you normally do bird.

L




























Hold this other L

 

[tomdiginson]

L




























Hold this other L

Keep chirping sweetheart

 

[Bantz Lord T]

The CL ban must get upheld so we don't have to see this atrocity in European competition

 

[jape]

.

 

[ICE CITY CF]

*idiocy . Point is, you knew exactly what I meant. Any arguments I've had in here were football-related and dealt with stats. Obviously there are situations where the stats don't always show on paper, but in this case, they don't really fall in your favor, so save the fake nonchalant passive-aggressive attitude.

Aint nothing fake my guy. You come at me with that kind of energy first, you're gonna to get that exact same kind of energy in return. Every time.

But let's move on and have a discussion. How can you possibly argue that the stats support your position?

Statistically Messi is a tier above.

All time career goals per game ratio = Messi
All time career assist per game ratio = Messi
League goals per game ratio = Messi
League assist per game ratio = Messi
Champions League goals per game ratio = Messi
Champions League assist per game ratio = Ronaldo
Other club competitions goals per game ratio = Messi
Other club competitions assists per game ratio = Messi
International goals per game ratio = Ronaldo
International assists per game ratio = Messi

 

[tomdiginson]

Aint nothing fake my guy. You come at me with that kind of energy first, you're gonna to get that exact same kind of energy in return. Every time.

But let's move on and have a discussion. How can you possibly argue that the stats support your position?

Statistically Messi is a tier above.

All time career goals per game ratio = Messi
All time career assist per game ratio = Messi
League goals per game ratio = Messi
League assist per game ratio = Messi
Champions League goals per game ratio = Messi
Champions League assist per game ratio = Ronaldo
Other club competitions goals per game ratio = Messi
Other club competitions assists per game ratio = Messi
International goals per game ratio = Ronaldo
International assists per game ratio = Messi

You're clearly mad about something from the past cause you referenced me as if I knew you from somewhere. You got upset cause I responded to your passive-aggressive post with a gif.


I'm not trying to argue for either party because I have no horse in the race. I'm not one of you weirdo obsessed fanboys. Both players are great and have been dominant, but to make a declaration that one Is flat out better in every aspect is asinine especially when they both have proven that they can be dominant on a consistent basis. Ronaldo has the slight nudge simply because he has shown his dominance in Europe time and time again while operating on a lesser team. He's done this for both club and country.

Ronaldo has played in 4 different leagues and has proven that he is the same player wherever he goes. A goal getting machine regardless of the league's style of play. Messi has been with Barcelona the entire duration of his career(Not necessarily a bad thing). While Messi has a better goal Ratio in champions league, Ronaldo still leads the way with the most goals scored and has 5 champions league trophies to back it up. Last year when Barcelona was up against a Liverpool team 3-0. Heading into the second leg, that goals to games ratio didn't do anything for Messi because Barcelona was ousted by the eventual champions. It also did absolutely nothing for them in the 2017-18 season when they were bounced by Roma

It can also be argued that Messi has played on teams with better players ((both club and country) than Ronaldo for the vast majority of his career. Players like Eto, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Xavi etc help make the game way easier for Messi to score goals as well as to create chances for others. So its obvious he's going to have better ratios.

 

[ICE CITY CF]

You're clearly mad about something from the past cause you referenced me as if I knew you from somewhere. You got upset cause I responded to your passive-aggressive post with a gif.

God that is rich.

Everyone in this thread knows how you engage on this specific platform. You been posting for years. Literally thousands of posts. You're the poster child for petty abrasiveness and passive aggressive behavior.

At least it usually offers some comedic relief.

Only person who got upset was you, when I upped another poster for having the gumption to argue their point. Like I said, I just returned your energy right back at you.

but to make a declaration that one Is flat out better in every aspect is asinine

Not sure if you're deliberately arguing in bad faith or not. Never did I say Messi is better in every aspect of football. I said he's categorically a better individual player. That's not even a difficult distinction.

Ronaldo has the slight nudge simply because he has shown his dominance in Europe time and time again while operating on a lesser team. He's done this for both club and country.

Ronaldo has played in 4 different leagues and has proven that he is the same player wherever he goes. A goal getting machine regardless of the league's style of play. Messi has been with Barcelona the entire duration of his career(Not necessarily a bad thing). While Messi has a better goal Ratio in champions league, Ronaldo still leads the way with the most goals scored and has 5 champions league trophies to back it up. Last year when Barcelona was up against a Liverpool team 3-0. Heading into the second leg, that goals to games ratio didn't do anything for Messi because Barcelona was ousted by the eventual champions. It also did absolutely nothing for them in the 2017-18 season when they were bounced by Roma

It can also be argued that Messi has played on better teams(both club and country) than Ronaldo for the vast majority of his career. Players like Eto, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Xavi etc help make the game way easier for Messi to score goals as well as to create chances for others. So its obvious he's going to have better ratios.

You really went from "I don't talk football without statistics, and the stats aren't in Messi's favor," to getting shut down on that talking point, only to return with a bunch of needlessly subjective, overly qualified, drivel.

Have a good night.

 

[AZwildcats]

has Daniel Sturridge been brought up yet?

 

[flyeed]

Using goals per game as a metric to indicate Messi > CR in the CL is disingenuous, especially while ignoring who the comp’s top scorer/assist man is. Just because Messi got going at a younger age doesn’t mean anything, because once Ronaldo took off he went on a level beyond anyone else. And it’s evidenced by being the man on a squad that won 4/5, and how badly they fell off as soon as he left.

I’m not saying CR > Messi. I’m just saying that if he’s clearly the best player in the history of the highest level most difficult competition then you can’t really be mad if people say he and Messi are too close to call for them.

and rolaholic appreciate the insight into what made it more difficult to score back then.

 

[Coupé It]

People forget United had Ronnie play Left Midfielder who tracked back for a good 4 years. He wasn’t allowed to be a forward.

Maybe Fergie didn’t think it was time, but United didn’t start winning again until Ronaldo was allowed to go Foward and started bagging goals.

I’m sure that affects goals ratio in the champions league. But if you bring up goals per game since, it’s closer. Doesn’t Ronaldo have way more goals in knockout stages to?

all that being said I’m picking CR7 or Messi ahead of Dinho and Ronaldo to start my franchise every single time. Due to longevity and consistency.

 

[tomdiginson]

God that is rich.

Everyone in this thread knows how you engage on this specific platform. You been posting for years. Literally thousands of posts. You're the poster child for petty abrasiveness and passive aggressive behavior.

At least it usually offers some comedic relief.

Only person who got upset was you, when I upped another poster for having the gumption to argue their point. Like I said, I just returned your energy right back at you.

You made a snide remark while "upping" someone else. The post is there since you're having selective memory.

Not sure if you're deliberately arguing in bad faith or not. Never did I say Messi is better in every aspect of football. I said he's categorically a better individual player. That's not even a difficult distinction.

Reading is your friend. I clearly stated
"It can also be argued that Messi has played on teams with better players ((both club and country) than Ronaldo for the vast majority of his career. Players like Eto, Iniesta, Suarez, Neymar, Xavi etc help make the game way easier for Messi to score goals as well as to create chances for others. So its obvious he's going to have better ratios."

In the words of 50 cent "Are you illiterate *****? You can't read between the lines". Since you need hand-holding, let me break it down for you.

One can easily see that by having such great supporting talents around him, Messi was able to flourish. If defenses focused on him, he could send a pass to one of his teammate. Said players could also create chances for him to score. Football is a team sport. No matter how great of an individual player you claim to be, if the other 10 players on the pitch cannot get you in goal scoring opportunities, or create for themselves, you're not going to score that many goals. Throughout his career, he had class players around him who are just as lethal. See MSN. Whenever a specific player was keyed in on by defenders, the open player made them pay. This advantage allows Messi to bag goals easily and create for his team. All of which add to his own individual statistics. Ronaldo has achieved more with less. Drop Messi on Norwich city and see if he will be able to bag 50+ goals. His individual career stats would not be that great. I've included images since you're having a hard time with reading.

You really went from "I don't talk football without statistics, and the stats aren't in Messi's favor," to getting shut down on that talking point, only to return with a bunch of needlessly subjective, overly qualified, drivel.

Have a good night.

Please see my original post since you have selective memory.

Any arguments I've had in here that were football-related dealt with stats. Obviously there are situations where the stats don't always show on paper, but in this case, they don't really fall in your favor.

 

[HNL HI]

getting spicy in here, must be footy this weekend

 

[flyeed]

i can't believe the thread has devolved to CR vs Messi in 2020

but to get the last thing off my mind regarding it. In the last dance doc, BJ Armstrong made a distinction between playing the game and going out to win. I think in that sense, Messi is better at playing the game of footy. He's both an elite scorer and playmaker, and a better dead ball specialist. But CL CR figured out how to score, often multiple goals, on any opponent. In the end of the day when it comes to winning, getting a goal via positioning, speed, power, aerial ability, anticipation, drive, and having two strong feet counts as much as a goal that came from messi magic. And not only does it count the same, but it was proven to be a more reliable method for cracking the stingiest defenses.