2013-2014 NBA Finals - Spurs SMASH Heat 4-1 - San Antonio Spurs NBA Champions [RIP Dwyane Wade]

Who will Lebron James play for next year?

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Since this has become the pistons lakers nba finals thread for the day id like to say no team consisting of shaq and kobe should have ever lost in the finals.


Pistons just caught the lakers at a bad time. Malone went down, gp and shaq were garbage defensively and kobe playing like a prime nick young


Also the stubborness of phil jackson to not make any adjustments


Agreed which is why I've been saying they both stunk. Dudes just ain't trying to hear that though. In their world it just has to always be Kobe.

i think the disagreement comes in where, shaq didn't actually stink. 26.6/10.8 on 64% shooting isn't stinking, no matter who the player is. obviously we've seen shaq put up better, but those numbers aren't stinking.

22.6 points 2.8 boards 4.4 assists on 38% and 17% from 3 is stinking.

even though none of their teammates were effective, there was zero reason for kobe to take 29 more shots than shaq over the course of that series. period. point blank.

would they have still lost if kobe took less shots? probably. but shaq didn't stink that series. kobe did.
 
You right my bad I looked at 05-06. Still looking at the list he didn't deserve 2nd place Dirk did. The man averaged 23 points a game. We're talking about Shaq here. At least on the Heat he had sense enough to know that Wade was the lead dog. 
i think the disagreement comes in where, shaq didn't actually stink. 26.6/10.8 on 64% shooting isn't stinking, no matter who the player is. obviously we've seen shaq put up better, but those numbers aren't stinking.

22.6 points 2.8 boards 4.4 assists on 38% and 17% from 3 is stinking.

even though none of their teammates were effective, there was zero reason for kobe to take 29 more shots than shaq over the course of that series. period. point blank.

would they have still lost if kobe took less shots? probably. but shaq didn't stink that series. kobe did.
They both stunk that's why they lost. There is a thing called defense.
 
26.6 and 10.8 on 63.1% from the isn't playing well?

images
 
oh that finals? i'm not a mamba fan since that year.

I think the Pistons got somethin more at full potential of both teams (before karl malone injury).

Btw, as i always did, i hoped to see 30-35 shots from Shaq, that kind of play will open up a lot more spots on the court. i think maybe giving shaq the first 10 possessions of every game could change the tempo of that series. Maybe you got Big Ben with a couple of fouls early, rasheed need to take over, duble team were more necessary and the floor will spread out as a consequence.

Of course, if you start to fire everithing that your hand touches, this will be a lot harder to do.
 
i think the disagreement comes in where, shaq didn't actually stink. 26.6/10.8 on 64% shooting isn't stinking, no matter who the player is. obviously we've seen shaq put up better, but those numbers aren't stinking.

22.6 points 2.8 boards 4.4 assists on 38% and 17% from 3 is stinking.

even though none of their teammates were effective, there was zero reason for kobe to take 29 more shots than shaq over the course of that series. period. point blank.

would they have still lost if kobe took less shots? probably. but shaq didn't stink that series. kobe did.

he did defensively.
 
The Shaq led Heat played Detroit again the next year and son put up worse numbers than he did with the Lakers 
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. You dudes are acting like Shaq was prime against the Piston's when he wasn't. There is a reason his effectiveness dipped.
 
 
The Shaq led Heat played Detroit again the next year and son put up worse numbers than he did with the Lakers 
laugh.gif
. You dudes are acting like Shaq was prime against the Piston's when he wasn't. There is a reason his effectiveness dipped.
i will repeat, he wasm't getting the ball enough. Btw the heat and Pistons was battles in the east at that point
 
What exactly are you guys debating?
Anything specific or just a pissing contest?
most likely just an off topic pissing contest which probably turned into  kobe > lebron,   lebron > kobe , duncan > kobe,  kobe > duncan   with many posts coming from members who's posts reek of biasedness and only bringing up info which benifits their arguement while conveniently ignoring info which refutes their argument.

you know the usual back and forth NBA niketalk pissing contest which doesn't have an offseason.
 
at the end of the day the question is: is kobe a selfish player who preferred to take all the shots and loose a final instead of taking a backseat and whin his fourth chmanpionship or at least try on?

My answer is: HELL YEAH
 
 
most likely just an off topic pissing contest which probably turned into  kobe > lebron,   lebron > kobe , duncan > kobe,  kobe > duncan   with many posts coming from members who's posts reek of biasedness and only bringing up info which benifits their arguement while conveniently ignoring info which refutes their argument.

you know the usual back and forth NBA niketalk pissing contest which doesn't have an offseason.
first time here for me. so is it usual?

Btw great name
 
 
most likely just an off topic pissing contest which probably turned into  kobe > lebron,   lebron > kobe , duncan > kobe,  kobe > duncan   with many posts coming from members who's posts reek of biasedness and only bringing up info which benifits their arguement while conveniently ignoring info which refutes their argument.

you know the usual back and forth NBA niketalk pissing contest which doesn't have an offseason.
Post had absolutely nothing to due with any player being greater than another nor Duncan or Lebron. It was about why the Lakers lost to the Pistons. That's it that's all.
 
 
first time here for me. so is it usual?

Btw great name
it's the norm.

regarding 04 though.   when it happened as a Laker fan I was pretty pissed with Kobe and he went about some things in an unideal way.  However as time progressed, I realized that him and Shaq were both equally responsible for that teams downfall.

Kobe was a douche and had selfish tendancies at the time but he was putting the work in and constantly improving. how he went about things as a teammate at that time was a flaw though.    Shaq was dominant from 2000-02 but his work ethic and bad habits made his decline come faster then it should've.   by 2004 he wasn't the dominant shaq we saw during the 3 peat.

they lost to the spurs in 2003.  they got off to a terrible start.   Shaq delayed toe surgery in the 2002 summer because in his words, "he got hurt on company time, so he should miss games on company time"  factor that in and the fatigue factor of coming off a 3 peat,  that Laker team was in a deep hole from the slow start. They rebounded pretty strong to make the 2nd round, but that whole routine of good around during the regular season and turn the switch on in the playoffs wasn't always going to work when a team like the Spurs who they beat in 2 one sided series's in 2001 and 2002 were constantly improving their team and a team like Sacramento was making it's push and arguably may have won the title that year had Webber never got hurt against Dallas. 

Shaq came into camp out of shape again in 2003, went about things with his usual, "the big man needs the ball"  "the big man is the leader" routine and Kobe didn't help matters by airing his issues out publicly.  

Despite all that turmoil and tension, they beat San Antonio (a series which many felt would determine the NBA champion) knocked off Minnesota while going through Kobe's Colorado issues, Shaq and Kobe problems, and all the other drama with Phil. They just happened to  run into a buzzsaw Detroit team which was peaking at the right time.  This Detroit team was much better all around defensively.  Granted Shaq had his way with Rik Smits and Mutombo in 2000 and 2001 and Jason Collins and Todd Mccullogh on the Nets in 2002 were slouches but this was a better overall defensive team then what the Lakers played in previous years and this was a less dominant Shaq.    This is where the conditioning and past 2 summers of coming into camp out of shape come into play.   

Personally even if that Lakers team was getting along and didn't have the issues they did, I still think Detroit would beat them. It's not like they were losing close games where Detroit was getting lucky, Detroit was dominating them and the internal issues didn't help and Detroit peaked at the right time on top of that, they weren't no flukes. They came damn close to repeating as champs the next season.

Ultimately both Shaq and Kobe were to blame.  Shaq had a messy exit from Orlando, a messy exit from the Lakers, and a messy exit from Miami and it gets to the point where at what point do sit and wonder, is it really everyone elses fault at every place Shaq had a messy exit from.  As happy as Shaq was to be in Miami and get away from the Lakers, things went sour and fell apart not even 4 years later.

Kobe was a douche and things playing out the way they did humbled him as well.

Ultimately it was best both sides parted ways when they did though.  That Laker team wasn't winning anymore titles with Kobe and Shaq the way things were. Shaq got his 4th title in Miami, the Lakers were able to get a head start on rebuilding and were back in the Finals in 4 years.   It's the rare case where both sides who parted ways won in a sense.       Both sides could've handled things better but with egos and everything it's easier said then done.

My bad for the long rant though  
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it's the norm.

regarding 04 though.   when it happened as a Laker fan I was pretty pissed with Kobe and he went about some things in an unideal way.  However as time progressed, I realized that him and Shaq were both equally responsible for that teams downfall.

Kobe was a douche and had selfish tendancies at the time but he was putting the work in and constantly improving. how he went about things as a teammate at that time was a flaw though.    Shaq was dominant from 2000-02 but his work ethic and bad habits made his decline come faster then it should've.   by 2004 he wasn't the dominant shaq we saw during the 3 peat.

they lost to the spurs in 2003.  they got off to a terrible start.   Shaq delayed toe surgery in the 2002 summer because in his words, "he got hurt on company time, so he should miss games on company time"  factor that in and the fatigue factor of coming off a 3 peat,  that Laker team was in a deep hole from the slow start. They rebounded pretty strong to make the 2nd round, but that whole routine of good around during the regular season and turn the switch on in the playoffs wasn't always going to work when a team like the Spurs who they beat in 2 one sided series's in 2001 and 2002 were constantly improving their team and a team like Sacramento was making it's push and arguably may have won the title that year had Webber never got hurt against Dallas. 

Shaq came into camp out of shape again in 2003, went about things with his usual, "the big man needs the ball"  "the big man is the leader" routine and Kobe didn't help matters by airing his issues out publicly.  

Despite all that turmoil and tension, they beat San Antonio (a series which many felt would determine the NBA champion) knocked off Minnesota while going through Kobe's Colorado issues, Shaq and Kobe problems, and all the other drama with Phil. They just happened to  run into a buzzsaw Detroit team which was peaking at the right time.  This Detroit team was much better all around defensively.  Granted Shaq had his way with Rik Smits and Mutombo in 2000 and 2001 and Jason Collins and Todd Mccullogh on the Nets in 2002 were slouches but this was a better overall defensive team then what the Lakers played in previous years and this was a less dominant Shaq.    This is where the conditioning and past 2 summers of coming into camp out of shape come into play.   

Personally even if that Lakers team was getting along and didn't have the issues they did, I still think Detroit would beat them. It's not like they were losing close games where Detroit was getting lucky, Detroit was dominating them and the internal issues didn't help and Detroit peaked at the right time on top of that, they weren't no flukes. They came damn close to repeating as champs the next season.

Ultimately both Shaq and Kobe were to blame.  Shaq had a messy exit from Orlando, a messy exit from the Lakers, and a messy exit from Miami and it gets to the point where at what point do sit and wonder, is it really everyone elses fault at every place Shaq had a messy exit from.  As happy as Shaq was to be in Miami and get away from the Lakers, things went sour and fell apart not even 4 years later.

Kobe was a douche and things playing out the way they did humbled him as well.

Ultimately it was best both sides parted ways when they did though.  That Laker team wasn't winning anymore titles with Kobe and Shaq the way things were. Shaq got his 4th title in Miami, the Lakers were able to get a head start on rebuilding and were back in the Finals in 4 years.   It's the rare case where both sides who parted ways won in a sense.       Both sides could've handled things better but with egos and everything it's easier said then done.

My bad for the long rant though  
laugh.gif
I agree with a lot of this post.

Btw i will not agree with this:

reqoute:
 ltimately it was best both sides parted ways when they did though.  That Laker team wasn't winning anymore titles with Kobe and Shaq the way things were. Shaq got his 4th title in Miami, the Lakers were able to get a head start on rebuilding and were back in the Finals in 4 years.
I don't agree with that bro. The heat built an istand contender and won it all in a couple of years, but the laker sucked really hard with one of the top 5 players in the league at the time.

during that period Kobe looked like Mcgrady (who can play at least 2 o r 3 NBA finals if he stayed in toronto but that's another story) got a hall of famer coach fired / retired (i dont't really remember) and than starting back with phil Jackson and pushing on that cheat of a trade where La gain Gasol for a basket of popcorn.

IMHO, if thing proceeded correctly, the lakers will never build that team and never came back for the 3 finals.

Maybe i m paranoid, maybe i just really don't like kobe. 

The only thing i m pretty sure is that my english is very bad, and i apologyes for that.
 
The proof is in the pudding bro , the pistons brought back the same team the next year and got scorched by Lebron James without the so called overrated Ben Wallace :{
They were down like 7 with 3 mins in regulation & Bron had TWO dunks & a layup to help get the game to OT. All off isos at the top of the key. No screens, no off ball misdirection, nothing. Just 4 Cavaliers standing there watching Bron dribble & he got right to the rim & finished :lol

Then his GW shot was a layup off an iso :lol

I knew it was over for DET forever after that.

Man what are y'all saying? Didn't Detroit play San Antonio in the Finals the next year after winning the title? They lost to LeBron 3 seasons later after what 5 consecutive trips to the ECF? Not totally equal but that's just about what Miami just came off of during their run.
 
Man what are y'all saying? Didn't Detroit play San Antonio in the Finals the next year after winning the title? They lost to LeBron 3 seasons later after what 5 consecutive trips to the ECF? Not totally equal but that's just about what Miami just came off of during their run.
Nah man Bron beat a prime Pistons.
 
I agree with a lot of this post.

Btw i will not agree with this:

reqoute:

I don't agree with that bro. The heat built an istand contender and won it all in a couple of years, but the laker sucked really hard with one of the top 5 players in the league at the time.
during that period Kobe looked like Mcgrady (who can play at least 2 o r 3 NBA finals if he stayed in toronto but that's another story) got a hall of famer coach fired / retired (i dont't really remember) and than starting back with phil Jackson and pushing on that cheat of a trade where La gain Gasol for a basket of popcorn.

IMHO, if thing proceeded correctly, the lakers will never build that team and never came back for the 3 finals.

Maybe i m paranoid, maybe i just really don't like kobe. 

The only thing i m pretty sure is that my english is very bad, and i apologyes for that.

Lol I could care less about your English. This is a messageboard not a spelling bee haha

Its a few other things to factor in.

Miami won in 06 but they had the luxury of playing in the east. That pistons pacers brawl pretty much ruined those pacers teams chances of contending, once Larry Brown left for New York that pistons team wasnt what it once was. They had a great record in 06 but you could see they were vunerable. Put the Heat in the west and its much more of a battle trying to get out the west going against Dallas. San Antonio and Phoenix.

I really do think they traded Shaq at the right time though. It took him getting traded to be motivated to get in shape to spite the Lakers. Had Shaq been a Laker in 04-05 I doubt they get motivated, prove everyone wrong Shaq, and by 05-06 you could see his decline.

Had they held on to him, I just can't see them getting past San Antonio, maybe they beat Phoenix and Dallas though. Also you gotta factor in the money he wanted into the equation. It would've crippled the team from making moves to improve itself after you factor in Shaq and Kobe's salaries. Had they held onto Shaq, they probably get less then what they got from Miami a year later. Its better to trade a player a year early then a year late and its better to have a few down years like the lakers did post Shaq then do be a team that makes the 2nd round but is clearly passed their prime yet avoids the inevitable rebuild and faces a longer slower decline and rise to power. That's just my opinion though.

Regarding the Gasol trade, you gotta look at that from both sides perspectives. Memphis wanted to rebuild, other teams offered Memphis better players which may have helped at the moment but Memphis was thinking long term and the Lakers were thinking win now. Plus Marc Gasol panned out pretty nicely for them. The grizzlies made that deal thinking long term and at that time Jerry west was no longer affiliated with the grizzlies so it wasnt a sweetheart deal. Hell if anyone wants to talk hookup deals, One can make an argument about Kevin mchale hooking his boy Danny Ainge up with the garnett trade.
 
Lol I could care less about your English. This is a messageboard not a spelling bee haha

Its a few other things to factor in.

Miami won in 06 but they had the luxury of playing in the east. That pistons pacers brawl pretty much ruined those pacers teams chances of contending, once Larry Brown left for New York that pistons team wasnt what it once was. They had a great record in 06 but you could see they were vunerable. Put the Heat in the west and its much more of a battle trying to get out the west going against Dallas. San Antonio and Phoenix.

I really do think they traded Shaq at the right time though. It took him getting traded to be motivated to get in shape to spite the Lakers. Had Shaq been a Laker in 04-05 I doubt they get motivated, prove everyone wrong Shaq, and by 05-06 you could see his decline.

Had they held on to him, I just can't see them getting past San Antonio, maybe they beat Phoenix and Dallas though. Also you gotta factor in the money he wanted into the equation. It would've crippled the team from making moves to improve itself after you factor in Shaq and Kobe's salaries. Had they held onto Shaq, they probably get less then what they got from Miami a year later. Its better to trade a player a year early then a year late and its better to have a few down years like the lakers did post Shaq then do be a team that makes the 2nd round but is clearly passed their prime yet avoids the inevitable rebuild and faces a longer slower decline and rise to power. That's just my opinion though.

Regarding the Gasol trade, you gotta look at that from both sides perspectives. Memphis wanted to rebuild, other teams offered Memphis better players which may have helped at the moment but Memphis was thinking long term and the Lakers were thinking win now. Plus Marc Gasol panned out pretty nicely for them. The grizzlies made that deal thinking long term and at that time Jerry west was no longer affiliated with the grizzlies so it wasnt a sweetheart deal. Hell if anyone wants to talk hookup deals, One can make an argument about Kevin mchale hooking his boy Danny Ainge up with the garnett trade.
Nice talking here tonight.

Was good to be trade shaq? yeah.

The fact he lacks motivation is explained in having only 4 rings. i would be impressed if he ad 6 or 7. Btw in those finals kobe should pass more the ball to shaq to try to put him IN the game instead of give him the chance to wine aroundo and play some poor D.

Beside That the rebuilding processs of the lakers was bad and only the Gasol trade gave them a chance. If someone in the Grizzlies organization knew that Marc Gasol was going to be as good as he really is now, every NBA Team should give him a job.

I didn't like that trade, was fake, as i don't like the Garnett trade for Minnesota, The Paul Thing in LA and of course all the thing happened this year between Clips, Boston and Brooklin.

I think that this ****** deals should be more regulated.
 
Man what are y'all saying? Didn't Detroit play San Antonio in the Finals the next year after winning the title? They lost to LeBron 3 seasons later after what 5 consecutive trips to the ECF? Not totally equal but that's just about what Miami just came off of during their run.

Nah man Bron beat a prime Pistons.

That wasn't even the best Pistons team of that run but ok.
 
Kobe did pass the ball to Shaq when it was clear that he was a dominant player evidenced by them winning 3 rings together. What do people think Kobe was doing then? The minute it was apparent that Shaq was no longer as dominant as he used to be, Kobe wanted to take over as the lead dog. Shaq was not going for this due to his ego it's that simple. Had Shaq checked his ego he'd have more rings. Kobe went on to win 2 more rings with a less dominant player than Shaq as the lead man. Shaq won his only ring without Kobe as a sidekick. You do the math and feel in the blanks.

As @Cedric Ceballos  said the Lakers  did the right thing by moving Shaq when they did. He was never going to play second fiddle to Kobe so it was time for him to go.
 
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