2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

[dland24]

this is overboard, angels are ruining baseball

LOL.

 

[stillin729]

Anyone signing RA Dickey is clueless, he's a one year wonder

 

[naija nitemare]

this is overboard, angels are ruining baseball

LOL.

 

[proshares]

Anyone signing RA Dickey is clueless, he's a one year wonder

He's been doing this for more than one year though.

R.A. Dickey and the Myth of One Great Year.

Like many others, I’ve expressed some bewilderment on Twitter about how the Mets are handling their negotiations with R.A. Dickey. Dickey was one of the game’s best players in 2012, and the Mets were reportedly offering him the same kind of contract Joe Blanton just signed for, and have now improved their offer to make it equal to what Jeremy Guthrie just signed for. There’s a discount involved with signing an extension a year out from free agency, but the discount has to be reasonable, and these offers don’t strike me as overly reasonable. They don’t strike Dickey as overly reasonable either.

However, there’s a common retort from some folks whenever it is suggested that the Mets pay Dickey like a top-shelf starter. “It was just one year.” Here, see for yourself.

@redsoxbuzztap please stay away frm RA Dickey. He’s a one year wonder not worth the asking price!

— Greg Boucher (@gregjboucher) December 4, 2012


Though, I don’t think it is true. Bluejays do not trade J.P for R.A Dickey. One good year! Plus he’s 37.

— Jordon (@jordon_4) December 4, 2012


Not for a 38 yr old w/one good year RT @nydnharper Source says Mets could get speedy Dee Gordon & top pitching prospect Zach Lee for Dickey.

— DodgersBeat (@DodgersBeat) December 4, 2012


I really hope @bluejays don’t overpay for a guy that was good for one year (Dickey)

— Dustin Funk (@theFunkDust) December 10, 2012


Apparently, there’s this idea that pre-2012 R.A. Dickey was a worthless nothing, and after his fluke season, he’s headed right back to being a trick pitch sideshow. That idea is just hilariously wrong.

61 pitchers threw at least 350 innings between 2010 and 2011. During those two years, Dickey posted an ERA- of 81, meaning that he prevented runs at a rate 19 percent better than the league average. We’re using ERA- for Dickey because knuckleballers have a long exhibited history of being an exception to FIP, by the way. That put him squarely between Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum, and ahead of guys like Hiroki Kuroda, Dan Haren, Chris Carpenter, and Mat Latos. Not bad company.

However, most of those guys had been a little more consistent than Dickey, and had a track record of excellent pitching prior to 2010. His success is a little newer, so if we’re going to look at a comp for Dickey, we need to find a guy who really established himself for the first time in 2010. Thankfully, there’s a highly touted ace who has performed at nearly the exact same level as Dickey in each of the last three years, and his track record in terms of run prevention is a dead on match for Dickey; that guy is named David Price.

It might sound like heresy, but take a look at their last three seasons side by side.

Season Name IP K/BB HR/9 BABIP LOB% ERA- FIP- xFIP-
2010 David Price 208 2.38 0.65 0.270 79% 69 86 92
2010 R.A. Dickey 174 2.48 0.67 0.276 77% 73 94 94
2011 David Price 224 3.46 0.88 0.281 73% 90 86 82
2011 R.A. Dickey 208 2.48 0.78 0.278 75% 89 101 103
2012 David Price 211 3.47 0.68 0.285 81% 66 77 75
2012 R.A. Dickey 233 4.26 0.92 0.275 80% 72 87 84

They got there different ways, but it’s hard to tell 2010 Dickey from 2010 Price. Their K/BB, HR/9, BABIP, and LOB% are all basically the same, and not surprisingly, they both were among the league leaders in run prevention; Price ranked #7 in MLB in ERA-, Dickey was #10.

In 2011, both went backwards in terms of results, as they both gave up more hits and home runs which led to lower strand rates, and again, they basically posted the same ERA-, though this time, it represented good results rather than great ones. Price’s problems stranding runners masked his breakout, though, as he drastically cut his walk rate and improved his overall profile. Dickey kept doing his thing, looking like basically the same pitcher as before, just with fewer stranded runners.

Then, last year, both Dickey and Price put it all together. They were again among the league’s best at preventing runs, but both did it with dramatically better peripherals than in 2010. Rather than just having ace-like results, both pitched liked aces, and were honored with Cy Young Awards for completing their first season as a legitimate #1 starter.

Because Price is a former #1 pick who throws 95 MPH, there’s no skepticism about his track record. No one ever refers to David Price as a one year wonder. But yet, when you actually look at his performance over the last three years, it’s hard to make a case that he’s been any different than Dickey. Over the total of his last three seasons, Price has an ERA- of 75, while Dickey has an ERA- of 78. The full list of pitchers with an ERA- between 75 and 80 over the last three years: David Price, Cole Hamels, CC Sabathia, Felix Hernandez, Gio Gonzalez, Matt Cain, and R.A. Dickey. That’s his group of peers, not based on one great year, but on three excellent seasons where Dickey has been one of the game’s best starters.

Yes, he was better last year than he had been in prior years. So was David Price. If you’re going to call one of them a one year wonder, you have to call them both a fluke. Personally, I’ll just go the other direction, and call both of them elite starting pitchers, worthy of all the adulation you want to throw their way. And, in Dickey’s case, worth the contract he’s asking for. Just stop lowballing him and pay the man. He’s earned it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[wildkycat]

Angels @ Cincinnati Opening Day.

 

[xxpizzo]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

 

[proshares]

No

I'm not Met guy by any means but I don't think anyone who has watched that division the last 3 years (or him pitching) can say he's a one hit wonder.

 

[darthska]

this is overboard, angels are ruining baseball

we're just playing within the rules. It's not our fault there's not a cap.

 

[wildkycat]

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48
I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.

 

[SoleByThePound]

this is overboard, angels are ruining baseball

Somewhere a planet just imploded.

 

[Johnny_Cakes]

this is overboard, angels are ruining baseball

Haha.

 

[dland24]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

LOL at this entire post.

 

[xxpizzo]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

LOL at this entire post.

Im not to sure whats funny because im pretty sure between the last 2 years is when he actually started to master the knuckleball pitch. The dude used to get rocked when he pitched it couple years ago. It saved the dudes career actually

 

[GreenNGold89]

That Angels lineup is filthy. AL West should be fun again. Hope our young pitchers take a step forward otherwise **** is going to get ugly.

 

[xxpizzo]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

LOL at this entire post.

Just one year after he started to learn to throw the pitch, Dickey took an MLB mound as a knuckleballer for the first time in Arlington, Texas, on April 6, 2006. He gave up six home runs over the course of three innings. It tied a modern-era record (held by fellow knuckleballer Tim Wakefield) for most home runs conceded in a single game, and Dickey offers a powerful and detailed account of the episode in the prologue of his book under the heading “The Worst Night I Ever Had.” Fast forward six years. Dickey is coming off the best season he’s ever had, and one of the best seasons any knuckleballer has ever had, going 20-6 with a 2.73 ERA to finish with the second-most wins in the National League, the second-lowest ERA, and the highest strikeout total with 230. In June, Dickey threw 44.1 consecutive innings without conceding a single earned run, a Mets record and the 10th-best such streak in baseball history. During that run he became only the 11th pitcher in the modern era to throw back-to-back one-hitters. All of this came at the age of 37, a point when many big league pitchers have already packed it in. How did R.A. Dickey do what he’s done so late in his baseball life and in such a short period of time? How was he able to turn himself from a career minor leaguer into one of the best pitchers in baseball? After years of work, Dickey mastered the virtually untamable pitch by coming up with two innovations in the way he throws it. First, he pitches it faster than any other successful knuckler has ever done before. Tim Wakefield, the only other knuckleball pitcher in the league when Dickey started learning the pitch, threw it at a typically snail-like speed of 67 miles per hour. Dickey throws it on average at 77 mph, changing speeds with a slow version between 73 and 75 mph and a fast version between 75 and 80 mph. This “angry” knuckleball is like no pitch big league hitters have ever seen before.

you wanna laugh at something laugh at yourself

 

[dland24]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

LOL at this entire post.

Im not to sure whats funny because im pretty sure between the last 2 years is when he actually started to master the knuckleball pitch. The dude used to get rocked when he pitched it couple years ago. It saved the dudes career actually

First of all, that is factually incorrect. He started throwing the knuckleball at least 5 years ago (I think more like 7). Secondly, a good knuckleball is hard to hit period. Doesnt matter if a hitter knows it is coming or not. The beauty of a good knuckleball is its unpredictability. A hitter recognizing it and hitting it are entirely different things.

The reason Dickey's is so hard to hit is because of how hard he throws it. No one has ever thrown a knuckleball as hard as he does. Since he perfected it (which wasnt just last season btw), he has been a completely different pitcher.

 

[darthska]

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48
I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.

Translation: "Our money is tight... for you. But for him? Our money is long... very long."

 

[stillin729]

No
I'm not Met guy by any means but I don't think anyone who has watched that division the last 3 years (or him pitching) can say he's a one hit wonder.

Cy Young caliber he is

He's a solid pitcher but not worth the money he's gonna get

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Baseball needs a salary cap. This getting outta hand

 

[kookcle]

Torii Hunter ‏@toriihunter48
I was told money was tight but I guess the Arte had money hidden under a Mattress. Business is business but don't lie.

It was the money for Greinke 20+ million short of the Dodgers offer
I would rather have Greinke than Josh because Bourjos needs to play .

 

[xxpizzo]

i have a feeling though this season batters will be able to recognize when that knuckle ball is comming, i could be wrong but didnt dickey just learn how to pitch it like last year ?

LOL at this entire post.

Im not to sure whats funny because im pretty sure between the last 2 years is when he actually started to master the knuckleball pitch. The dude used to get rocked when he pitched it couple years ago. It saved the dudes career actually

First of all, that is factually incorrect. He started throwing the knuckleball at least 5 years ago (I think more like 7). Secondly, a good knuckleball is hard to hit period. Doesnt matter if a hitter knows it is coming or not. The beauty of a good knuckleball is its unpredictability. A hitter recognizing it and hitting it are entirely different things.

The reason Dickey's is so hard to hit is because of how hard he throws it. No one has ever thrown a knuckleball as hard as he does. Since he perfected it (which wasnt just last season btw), he has been a completely different pitcher.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sport...the_mets_pitcher_reveals_how_he_mastered.html  Read this and get them facts straight fam

 

[akajae]

Hey, we're the Angels. We take your team's best players every off-season and draft MVP candidates... and still don't make the playoffs.

He mad

repped.

 

[proshares]

Cy Young caliber he is
He's a solid pitcher but not worth the money he's gonna get

He wants basically the contract the Ryan Dempster just got on top of the $5 million he's getting this year. So it's basically 3 years/~$34 million he's asking for. Why wouldn't you give him that? Unless you thought he was getting more than that.

Pizzo, I see what you're saying. I thought you meant he just started throwing the knuckle last year.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

Hey, we're the Angels. We take your team's best players every off-season and draft MVP candidates... and still don't make the playoffs.

He mad

repped.

But it's true though

 

[dland24]

I am done arguing bro. The article clearly states he started throwing his knuck in 2005, and you originally stated he learned how to throw it last year.. Yes he took time to master it, but 2012 was not his first success in the Major Leagues. I totally disagree with your assessment that hitters will "be able to recognize it now" and be able to hit it. Agree to disagree.