according to this month's Car and Driver, da Chevy Camaro ZL1 >>>>> BMW M6

[futuremd]

This is almost like the Apple vs Android argument where people think that specs under the hood mean more than the entire package. 

 

[af1 1982]

nvm

 

[mikeposite]

Im going to have to stand by my BMW's regardless.

 

[mmg]

Big deal, I don't understand the point if going 0-60mph in how ever many seconds if your speeding to the next red light ESP you inner city living dudes.

Luxury on the inside > under the hood

TDI / Diesel cars > gas guzzlers

 

[jrdnsrnss]

This sentence should read:

"Sad thing is the Z kept up in 0-60 and 1/4 mile with a 3.7L 332 HP V6 while the Mustang has a 4.6L 315HP V8"

That is what I'm trying to get at here

No it shouldn't read like that because the V8 used in the 2010 is practically the same V8 Ford has used since the redesign of the Mustang in 2005. Few tweaks here and there and they bumped the power up from 300 to 315. And like stated before in this thread ,weight is another factor. Yeah the Mustang has two more cylinders but so what, the tuning of that motor is garbage which is why it doesn't make much power. It weighs more and has 17 horsepower less than the 370 yet still threw down the same numbers as the Z in the 1/4 mile as well as 0-60.

 

[cocotaso1]

Big deal, I don't understand the point if going 0-60mph in how ever many seconds if your speeding to the next red light ESP you inner city living dudes.

Luxury on the inside > under the hood

TDI / Diesel cars > gas guzzlers

word to topcars, still gotta have some go behind the pedal tho.

 

[mmg]

Yea of course, in rather have my car look good / feel good, big deal you can get somewhere 2 seconds faster than me :x at how much gas you'll spend getting there :x

 

[jrdnsrnss]

Yea of course, in rather have my car look good / feel good, big deal you can get somewhere 2 seconds faster than me :x at how much gas you'll spend getting there :x

I love when gas is an argument when talking about cars in this price range. Got dudes being cheap about gas when talking about a $100k+ BMW . If getting good MPG is high on your list what would you even be doing looking at cars like this. And just cause a car has a big motor in it doesn't mean automatic terrible gas mileage, new 2013 GT500 has 650 horsepower yet still gets 19 city/24 highway mpg and avoids the gas guzzler tax. Not bad for a 5.8L supercharged V8. May not be Prius numbers but compare it to the current M3 which only gets 14 city/20 highway MPG :x. Granted the current M3 is old already i just threw a BMW in the mix for comparison.

 

[Bert.]

BMW is trash.

the only thing the M6 has on the ZL1 is the interior because no joke, the Camaro has one of the ugliest/worst interiors ever.

 

[af1 1982]

No it shouldn't read like that because the V8 used in the 2010 is practically the same V8 Ford has used since the redesign of the Mustang in 2005. Few tweaks here and there and they bumped the power up from 300 to 315. And like stated before in this thread ,weight is another factor. Yeah the Mustang has two more cylinders but so what, the tuning of that motor is garbage which is why it doesn't make much power. It weighs more and has 17 horsepower less than the 370 yet still threw down the same numbers as the Z in the 1/4 mile as well as 0-60.

You're missing the point here. V6 vs V8. The VQ Z engine has been in production since 2003. The V8 and bigger displacement is SUPPOSED to put out way more power than the V6 with it's smaller displacement. The V8 is SUPPOSED to be faster and yet it's putting up the same numbers. 17HP? That's nothing. Different RPMs, different tuning, etc. The fact is that they have relatively the same amount of HP and yet one is significantly smaller than the other. And that is a fact no matter which way you twist the argument around.

 

[mmg]

Yea of course, in rather have my car look good / feel good, big deal you can get somewhere 2 seconds faster than me :x at how much gas you'll spend getting there :x

I love when gas is an argument when talking about cars in this price range. Got dudes being cheap about gas when talking about a $100k+ BMW . If getting good MPG is high on your list what would you even be doing looking at cars like this.

My discussion/remark wasn't only towards BMW, in saying in general.

VW / Audi makes some looking cars for a fraction of the price and goes only so slightly slower.

Euro > American

 

[af1 1982]

I love when gas is an argument when talking about cars in this price range. Got dudes being cheap about gas when talking about a $100k+ BMW

. If getting good MPG is high on your list what would you even be doing looking at cars like this. And just cause a car has a big motor in it doesn't mean automatic terrible gas mileage, new 2013 GT500 has 650 horsepower yet still gets 19/24 mpg and avoids the gas guzzler tax. Not bad for a 5.8L supercharged V8.

And this is why I have a lot of respect for Ford right now. 

 

[Thierry Henry]

BMW is trash.

the only thing the M6 has on the ZL1 is the interior because no joke, the Camaro has one of the ugliest/worst interiors ever.

not sure if srs



EDIT: I also agree with MMG

European>>>>American

 

[Bert.]

"The BMW is the better car by nearly every measure. Its structure feels far stiffer than the Camaro’s shell, immediately imparting a superior sense of driver control. Top up, the M6 provides a more serene experience, with great noise insulation and nary a ruffle from the fabric. The leather-wrapped everything inside the BMW feels at least four times richer than the ZL1’s interior trimmings."

C/D trolling again...

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Never in my life will I choose a Camaro over a BMW.

LOL


what looks better since you guys are into aesthetics?

if you think the BMW 6 series, M6 included looks good or better than your clearly on something or just a hater

 

[af1 1982]

not sure if srs
EDIT: I also agree with MMG
European>>>>American

That's why I don't hate one brand over the other. I hate cars but not brands

 

[af1 1982]

LOL
what looks better since you guys are into aesthetics?
if you think the BMW 6 series, M6 included looks good or better than your clearly on something or just a hater

M6 is fire IMO.

Not trying to come at your neck or anything my dude, but I could have sworn that you said the Camaro was ugly before. 

 

[41239]

This is almost like the Apple vs Android argument where people think that specs under the hood mean more than the entire package. 

yea, but what are you talking about? i would imagine in the android vs apple argument the android phones are the total package and have more impressive specs, idk the argument too well but i honestly think the only reason there is an apple vs android debate is because apple is a chic tech brand at this point, theyre cool but its all style points to me

the zl1 vs m6 is pure performance vs luxury-performance, and then the zl1 has a lower price point also, so with that being said idk which one would be the "entire package" you can pay 56k and get a pretty cool design with hi grade performance or you can pay 115k for hi lux and respectable performance, theres no comparison because the cars are targeting two very different demos

 

[ninjahood]

Don't matter....da trims/interiors and handling are trash on domestics, b.

i take it you've never been inside a CTS-V, cuz these words wouldn't of been dripping out your mouth.

 

[ninjahood]

Big deal, I don't understand the point if going 0-60mph in how ever many seconds if your speeding to the next red light

ESP you inner city living dudes.

Luxury on the inside > under the hood

TDI / Diesel cars > gas guzzlers

one word, TORQUE.

if your car has over 500 foot pounds of torque, you're gonna feel that da MIN you step on da gas, whether you're going 30 or going 90

 

[Bert.]

LOL

what looks better since you guys are into aesthetics?

if you think the BMW 6 series, M6 included looks good or better than your clearly on something or just a hater

M6 is fire IMO.

Not trying to come at your neck or anything my dude, but I could have sworn that you said the Camaro was ugly before. 

it is, very ugly. a ZL1 is a little bit better but not my cup of tea. im comparing the two cars mentioned.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

You're missing the point here. V6 vs V8. The VQ Z engine has been in production since 2003. The V8 and bigger displacement is SUPPOSED to put out way more power than the V6 with it's smaller displacement. The V8 is SUPPOSED to be faster and yet it's putting up the same numbers. 17HP? That's nothing. Different RPMs, different tuning, etc. The fact is that they have relatively the same amount of HP and yet one is significantly smaller than the other. And that is a fact no matter which way you twist the argument around.

I totally understand where your coming from. I just hate that Ford still kept the crap 4.6L for all those years. Yes it's a V8 but it's a poor excuse for one. 4.6L making only 315 hp :x, pure junk.

 

[ninjahood]

No it shouldn't read like that because the V8 used in the 2010 is practically the same V8 Ford has used since the redesign of the Mustang in 2005. Few tweaks here and there and they bumped the power up from 300 to 315. And like stated before in this thread ,weight is another factor. Yeah the Mustang has two more cylinders but so what, the tuning of that motor is garbage which is why it doesn't make much power. It weighs more and has 17 horsepower less than the 370 yet still threw down the same numbers as the Z in the 1/4 mile as well as 0-60.

You're missing the point here. V6 vs V8. The VQ Z engine has been in production since 2003. The V8 and bigger displacement is SUPPOSED to put out way more power than the V6 with it's smaller displacement. The V8 is SUPPOSED to be faster and yet it's putting up the same numbers. 17HP? That's nothing. Different RPMs, different tuning, etc. The fact is that they have relatively the same amount of HP and yet one is significantly smaller than the other. And that is a fact no matter which way you twist the argument around.

american car manufacturers leave "room for improvement" hence why you think a car which so much displacement doesn't go even more faster or is MORE powerful.

they figure if da consumer wants to squeeze more power out of da engine that they room for you to do so, VS having a engine that has NO upside when it leaves da factory

because da cherry has been squeezed of all its juices.

there's a video on Hennessy performance that talks about that when describing da 700HP packages for LSX GM vehicles.

 

[jrdnsrnss]

handling are trash on domestics, b.

I love that American cars still carry the stigma of "they handle like trash". Pull your head out of your *** and realize these aren't the same cars America was making back in the 60s. These muscle cars nowadays go fast in a straight line and around a corner. Look at numbers the ZL1 put down on the Nurburging compared to other European exotics. Cars double and triple its price range it beat around the ring at a fraction of the cost. I'm sure someone will counter and say but "my leather feels good bruh" or some other interior argument. I like nice interiors also but i'm not trying to pay double the price of something for more supple leather and a nice alcantra steering wheel or some other ********. If you feel all that is worth double the price than that's all you.

 

[af1 1982]

it is, very ugly. a ZL1 is a little bit better but not my cup of tea. im comparing the two cars mentioned.

Gotcha. I liked the Camaro in Transformers 

 but I've seen so many that the shock factor has worn off and it isn't that nice. The overall shape just looks off. Gimme a charger/chally over the camaro any day

 

[cocotaso1]

it is, very ugly. a ZL1 is a little bit better but not my cup of tea. im comparing the two cars mentioned.

Gotcha. I liked the Camaro in Transformers   but I've seen so many that the shock factor has worn off and it isn't that nice. The overall shape just looks off. Gimme a charger/chally over the camaro any day

and im a chevy fan.