lobotomybeats
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it was a joke. people were complaining about statistics...
Am I the only one who hates the stat culture of the NBA?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by jmoneybaggz,
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You can't have a good sense of what's going on in any sports without a combination of both statistics and your naked eye... in most cases though, thestats will back up what you're seeing with your eyes.
The one thing is - many stats today, especially in basketball, are flawed in the way they're organized/calculated/compared... That's another issue foranother day, but the bottom line is, the right kind of stats take into account many of the things you guys are complaining about and really do give a good ideaof where players and teams stand on paper and in the real world.
I could see how many people find stats annoying in general though - they can be overwhelming, and it's still important to consider other things that statscan't evaluate.
The one thing is - many stats today, especially in basketball, are flawed in the way they're organized/calculated/compared... That's another issue foranother day, but the bottom line is, the right kind of stats take into account many of the things you guys are complaining about and really do give a good ideaof where players and teams stand on paper and in the real world.
I could see how many people find stats annoying in general though - they can be overwhelming, and it's still important to consider other things that statscan't evaluate.
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I agree with the OP.
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This is true looking at the stats you can tell kwame sucks. Watching him play makes you think that calling him trash is a compliment
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u dudes are making it out like stats are a horrible thing. When you look at players of the past you always refer to stats. And stats definitely do help injudging a players ability. Of course there are intangibles such as being a lockdown defender, getting deflections on the ball, making that pass that leads tothe assist, hustle plays, etc., but you can't watch and track every team. Just watching a player for a couple of games won't let you know exactly howgood he is. If i watch a player for 5 games and he dropped 30+ each game, i'm gunna assume that he does this all the time. If i watch those games with acombination of the statistics that his average is 14 ppg, i'm gunna know that the dude had extraordinary games for himself each time i watched him.
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NBA? look at major league beisbol
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92% of the L uses stats to determine what lineups are used.
It doesn't matter, really.
It doesn't matter, really.
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If you hate stats, you MUST hate baseball.
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Yeah they do...
If you never saw Zach Randolph play and you just saw his numbers you would want him on your team.
If you never saw Brandon Roy and and you just saw his numbers you wouldnt believe he was an all star caliber player
I've seen him play about 12-15 times this season. He should NOT be an all star. Period.
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Stats can some times be very useful for coaches and fans but many people do rely on them too much and as beats said, many people do not know how to properlyanalyze statistics.
In basketball, stats really fail to tell the story. There are so many ways players can contribute that are not recorded in the box score. Offensively, thingslike a point guard's ability to force a certain tempo are not recorded nor is a good first step or a perfect pass that then leads to an easy assist or aquaility screen. Even some of the things that are recorded like FG% can vary based on things like health and quality of teammates.
It is worse when it comes to defense or a loose ball situation. A tap that leads to a rebound is not recorded, a box out that helps a teammate get a board isnot recorded and neither is saving the ball from going out of bounds recorded. On defense, drawing a charge is over look, the percentage of times you get beatby a cutter or driver is not given, good defensive rotation is not quantified, tipped balls or a good trap that leads to a steal is not taken into account andperhaps one of the important thing in basketball, shots that are successfully altered are not recorded.
If you want to know what is happening in the NBA and which player is having a better season, you have to watch games and pay attention to everything he doesthat either helps or hurts his team.
In basketball, stats really fail to tell the story. There are so many ways players can contribute that are not recorded in the box score. Offensively, thingslike a point guard's ability to force a certain tempo are not recorded nor is a good first step or a perfect pass that then leads to an easy assist or aquaility screen. Even some of the things that are recorded like FG% can vary based on things like health and quality of teammates.
It is worse when it comes to defense or a loose ball situation. A tap that leads to a rebound is not recorded, a box out that helps a teammate get a board isnot recorded and neither is saving the ball from going out of bounds recorded. On defense, drawing a charge is over look, the percentage of times you get beatby a cutter or driver is not given, good defensive rotation is not quantified, tipped balls or a good trap that leads to a steal is not taken into account andperhaps one of the important thing in basketball, shots that are successfully altered are not recorded.
If you want to know what is happening in the NBA and which player is having a better season, you have to watch games and pay attention to everything he doesthat either helps or hurts his team.
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I've seen him play about 12-15 times this season. He should NOT be an all star. Period.
True story.
The only time I mind stats is when people say something like "______ is SO underrated, he averaged _ and _".
Most of the time they're players who don't effect the outcome of the game.
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stats are a benchmark of what a player is. hate it or love either way, someone else will. youre probably the fan that's more amazed by a players streetcred so their play of the game was dope but if they dont win it, what validation does it have? a counter argument would be that because of that playersperformance (shot selection reflected in their attempts and makes) - their contribution swayed the outcome of the game, win or lose. but in the end its thefinal score, which is a stat.
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boringest sport ever.
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Originally Posted by Ghenges
How you get your points is VERY important and that is why some stats can be misleading.
EXAMPLE: Look at a player like Dwight Howard. He is a physically, athletic, gifted beast @ 6-11 265lbs and he gets most of his points because of his athleticism..out jumping, out muscling, out running people. He averages 21 and 14. His basketball skills are not polished. He doesn't have footwork or any kind of jump shot and shoots poor from the FT line.
Next, look at a player like Al Jefferson. He's 6-10 265lbs but nowhere near as gifted athletically as Dwight but he averages the same points (21 per game) and 2 less rebounds (12pg). He gets his points from his basketball skill...from his footwork in the low post, mostly.
KG and Duncan...same thing. Duncan = skill. KG = athleticism.
What it boils down to, is a person with actual basketball skill will get you 2 points when you need them the most..or atleast they have a better chance of getting you those two points. This is why the people who claim Duncan is boring to watch really don't know squat about basketball...they just watch it for the cool uniforms ...you know who you are
So a guy who scores with basketball skill and averages 18pts 10rbs is more valuable than a guy who averages 20 and 12 out of raw athleticism IMO because skill beats athleticism any day of week and that's how statistics can fool you.
PERFECT example of someone who made the transition from raw athleticism to pure skill is Money. From '85 to '91 he was slashing, cutting and dicing through defenses and rising over dudes for 2. From '92 - '98 he developed a nice mid range game and one of the most deadliest fade-aways ever. He was still athletic, but relied less on it as he got older.
Well said, Ghenges.
I personally like the numbers game. You don't have to be a numbers/stats guy (fantasy/roto in the house!)....or just a highlight guy.....you can always beboth.
Balance = key to life
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nice to see someone drop the mark twain quote, though it isn't originally his. correct statistics can be manipulated to further an incorrect arguement