April Wrestling Thread/NTWT Weekend Edition/WM April 10th 2021

Booyaka Booyaka! On this episode of Music of the Mat, Andrew and Rich Kraetsch (Voices of Wrestling) discuss the theme history of Rey Mysterio. From AAA to ECW to WCW to WWE and beyond, Rey is truly one of the all-time greats with a theme history that’s as colorful as his masks. We hope you like Mad One because BOY OH BOY is there a lot of Mad One on this episode.

Music of the Mat #53: Rey Mysterio https://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2019/02/19/music-of-the-mat-53-rey-mysterio/
 
Some good discussion here, from DVDvr

@Case
@king of chicago
@King of Trash Style
Bend_The_Knee Bend_The_Knee
D deleted
danger style danger style
@JCMojica24

EbS67Hr.gif


1. Maybe derailing, but why is this "acceptable" no-selling? Like, why is this spot cool but **** Seth Rollins, or the end of a Hogan match?

2. KENTA is a weak little rookie, and Akiyama is taking his shots to prove his superiority over him. They do hurt him, but it’s more of a “**** you, I’m not showing weakness to your punk ***”. Although NOAH did go over board with that gap between young boys, and the establishment. Still, 90’s AJ, and 00’s NOAH had the best matches involving young boys ever.

3. It's an established narrative beat along career trajectories in Japanese wrestling. It happened to Akiyama when he was young; and now that he's hardened by experience and age, he can shrug off KENTA's offense. As KENTA gets better and older, he hits harder, and Akiyama (and others) react accordingly. It's a way of showing the progression of young talent. Which isn't to say anyone should or shouldn't like it, just that it's a decades-old tool that's proven pretty effective for Japanese audiences. There are other differences between Rollins, Hogan, and this--you could say the size difference makes it more believable, that Akiyama's expression shows struggle, and is thus selling of a kind--but mostly I think people here find no-selling effective when it fits the established language of a match/promotion. Nobody could really argue it didn't work when Hogan did it; I think you could suggest Rollins is too inconsistent with what he sells and when to impart as much meaning on his sequences.

4. I guess what I mean is that classic muscle-man no-sellers like Hogan and the Roadies always seemed to get a bad rap from Meltzer and "workrate" fans I guess because their no-selling took people out of the match. Matches like the above one tend to be heavily praised by the same people that take issue with Hogan and others. I personally think no-selling is just bad in general unless it's a Braun-Ellsworth situation, but if it's a matter of context, why does anyone have a real issue with Hogan and the Roadies no-selling in their matches? They're working characters within the contexts of their matches/companies too.

5. Honestly, I think you're somewhat arguing with people who aren't posting here. Meltzer isn't around, and I don't think he articulates his tastes well at all anyway. No one (here, now) is suggesting Hogan's hulk-up routine didn't work, wasn't "good", etc. It was just a very different presentation. Hogan no-sold with cartoonish theatricality, while Akiyama grimaces through strikes that are very much actually hitting him; but again, that's a difference of context/genre, not of performer. I think that's the other point here: Akiyama wasn't a famous no-seller; this is him deploying a very well established trope in Japanese wrestling. You see it when vets wrestle newbies, and/or when heavies wrestle juniors. This happens to be an example of both. So, Akiyama and KENTA here are performing within the established rules of their universe, speaking a language the fans know and understand. Rollins, I would suggest, sometimes no-sells in a way that stands out from the established fiction taking place around him. The Force works in Star Wars, but not Trek. That kind of thing.
 
dcallamerican said:
Some good discussion here, from DVDvr

@Case
@king of chicago
@King of Trash Style
Bend_The_Knee Bend_The_Knee
D deleted
danger style danger style
@JCMojica24

EbS67Hr.gif


1. Maybe derailing, but why is this "acceptable" no-selling? Like, why is this spot cool but **** Seth Rollins, or the end of a Hogan match?

2. KENTA is a weak little rookie, and Akiyama is taking his shots to prove his superiority over him. They do hurt him, but it’s more of a “**** you, I’m not showing weakness to your punk ***”. Although NOAH did go over board with that gap between young boys, and the establishment. Still, 90’s AJ, and 00’s NOAH had the best matches involving young boys ever.

3. It's an established narrative beat along career trajectories in Japanese wrestling. It happened to Akiyama when he was young; and now that he's hardened by experience and age, he can shrug off KENTA's offense. As KENTA gets better and older, he hits harder, and Akiyama (and others) react accordingly. It's a way of showing the progression of young talent. Which isn't to say anyone should or shouldn't like it, just that it's a decades-old tool that's proven pretty effective for Japanese audiences. There are other differences between Rollins, Hogan, and this--you could say the size difference makes it more believable, that Akiyama's expression shows struggle, and is thus selling of a kind--but mostly I think people here find no-selling effective when it fits the established language of a match/promotion. Nobody could really argue it didn't work when Hogan did it; I think you could suggest Rollins is too inconsistent with what he sells and when to impart as much meaning on his sequences.

4. I guess what I mean is that classic muscle-man no-sellers like Hogan and the Roadies always seemed to get a bad rap from Meltzer and "workrate" fans I guess because their no-selling took people out of the match. Matches like the above one tend to be heavily praised by the same people that take issue with Hogan and others. I personally think no-selling is just bad in general unless it's a Braun-Ellsworth situation, but if it's a matter of context, why does anyone have a real issue with Hogan and the Roadies no-selling in their matches? They're working characters within the contexts of their matches/companies too.

5. Honestly, I think you're somewhat arguing with people who aren't posting here. Meltzer isn't around, and I don't think he articulates his tastes well at all anyway. No one (here, now) is suggesting Hogan's hulk-up routine didn't work, wasn't "good", etc. It was just a very different presentation. Hogan no-sold with cartoonish theatricality, while Akiyama grimaces through strikes that are very much actually hitting him; but again, that's a difference of context/genre, not of performer. I think that's the other point here: Akiyama wasn't a famous no-seller; this is him deploying a very well established trope in Japanese wrestling. You see it when vets wrestle newbies, and/or when heavies wrestle juniors. This happens to be an example of both. So, Akiyama and KENTA here are performing within the established rules of their universe, speaking a language the fans know and understand. Rollins, I would suggest, sometimes no-sells in a way that stands out from the established fiction taking place around him. The Force works in Star Wars, but not Trek. That kind of thing.
Click to expand...

First dude can’t tell the difference between that spot and a Hogan no-sell sequence or A HBK kip up?

Low iq
 
DCAllAfrican DCAllAfrican

Worst HBK kip up is in this match. First match in four years from a bad back. Gets his back targeted the entire match, backbreakers onto chairs and ****. Not only does he do a kip up... he hops around after too :lol: :smh:

 
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