Are the PG/SG positions being phased out?

[the wizard]

I don't really want to hit you guys with a dissertation right now, but basically I feel that we are reverting back to the older days of the NBA where teams just played two guards like Monroe/Frazier, Thomas/Dumars, Lever/Adams, Johnson/Ainge and there really was no dropoff.
This thought came in my head as I was thinking about how I think Detroit should be fine in the backcourt with Knight and Stuckey as their strengths accentuate the weaknesses of the other. Also, we saw how OKC's halfcourt offense ran smoother with Harden facilitating the offense with Westbrook playing off the ball & vice versa with Westbrook driving and kicking out to Harden for open jump shots. I mean Dallas won the title with JKidd playing the 2 most of the way, and Barea/Terry playing in the PnR with Dirk. 

I think this is more due to the fact that we are not seeing as many 6'5 to 6'7 "shooting guards" coming into the league anymore, so teams have to adjust to the times. Obviously, we will still have stereotypical "shooting guards", but with all the combo guards being drafted nowadays, do you think we are moving away from PG/SG roles for the most part?

Thoughts?

 it's 2 am. I should've known better

 

[the wizard]

I don't really want to hit you guys with a dissertation right now, but basically I feel that we are reverting back to the older days of the NBA where teams just played two guards like Monroe/Frazier, Thomas/Dumars, Lever/Adams, Johnson/Ainge and there really was no dropoff.
This thought came in my head as I was thinking about how I think Detroit should be fine in the backcourt with Knight and Stuckey as their strengths accentuate the weaknesses of the other. Also, we saw how OKC's halfcourt offense ran smoother with Harden facilitating the offense with Westbrook playing off the ball & vice versa with Westbrook driving and kicking out to Harden for open jump shots. I mean Dallas won the title with JKidd playing the 2 most of the way, and Barea/Terry playing in the PnR with Dirk. 

I think this is more due to the fact that we are not seeing as many 6'5 to 6'7 "shooting guards" coming into the league anymore, so teams have to adjust to the times. Obviously, we will still have stereotypical "shooting guards", but with all the combo guards being drafted nowadays, do you think we are moving away from PG/SG roles for the most part?

Thoughts?

 it's 2 am. I should've known better

 

[offbad]

phased

 

[offbad]

phased

 

[hankmoody]

fhazed

 

[abovelegit1]

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

 

[kevin cleveland]

Death to combo guards, I say.

 

[abovelegit1]

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

 

[kevin cleveland]

Death to combo guards, I say.

 

[hankmoody]

fhazed

 

[the wizard]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

 

[the wizard]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

 

[pmatic]

Well rounded basketball players are always good in my book.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

 

[pmatic]

Well rounded basketball players are always good in my book.

 

[the wizard]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

Golden State, Atlanta, Dallas, OKC, Miami with Bron & Wade though, have to imagine Sac, Det, and NYK will this season. 
I'm just saying that there are so many combo and hybrid guards in the league right now that eventually teams are going to have to look more into it, no? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. 

 

[the wizard]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Have you seen the point guards come through the league lately? I don't think your theory has merit, because the roles will always be classified by their basic functions rather than size or game. The point guard will always be the guy initiating the offense, and the shooting guard will always be the guard playing off the ball. It's that simple.

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

Golden State, Atlanta, Dallas, OKC, Miami with Bron & Wade though, have to imagine Sac, Det, and NYK will this season. 
I'm just saying that there are so many combo and hybrid guards in the league right now that eventually teams are going to have to look more into it, no? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. 

 

[nychiphophippo]

i think its not the style taking over, but more of an adjustment to the personnel of teams since good SGs with height in the 6'6" range is almost as rare as a decent 7 footer in the league right now.

wade
kobe
johnson
ginobli

you can throw in kevin martin

and even wade is a bit undersized height-wise compared to the protypical 6'6" sg

 

[nychiphophippo]

i think its not the style taking over, but more of an adjustment to the personnel of teams since good SGs with height in the 6'6" range is almost as rare as a decent 7 footer in the league right now.

wade
kobe
johnson
ginobli

you can throw in kevin martin

and even wade is a bit undersized height-wise compared to the protypical 6'6" sg

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by The Wizard

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

Golden State, Atlanta, Dallas, OKC, Miami with Bron & Wade though, have to imagine Sac, Det, and NYK will this season. 
I'm just saying that there are so many combo and hybrid guards in the league right now that eventually teams are going to have to look more into it, no? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. 

Atlanta, Dallas, and OKC all had defined point guards with point guard roles. You were saying the league was trending towards interchangeable guards with interchangeable roles, and I disagreed. Combo type guards have always existed, and strict point guards and 2 guards will always exist.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by The Wizard

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by The Wizard

but if both guards can do that?

Both guards can almost always do that.

It's a matter of actually doing it, and doing it well. How many teams do you see where those duties are regularly being switched off between the two guards?

Golden State, Atlanta, Dallas, OKC, Miami with Bron & Wade though, have to imagine Sac, Det, and NYK will this season. 
I'm just saying that there are so many combo and hybrid guards in the league right now that eventually teams are going to have to look more into it, no? Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. 

Atlanta, Dallas, and OKC all had defined point guards with point guard roles. You were saying the league was trending towards interchangeable guards with interchangeable roles, and I disagreed. Combo type guards have always existed, and strict point guards and 2 guards will always exist.

 

[mgrand15]

I think you're seeing a lot of players that don't play PG handling the ball a lot which I sorta agree that its a newer thing (as in I don't think it was seen as much in the 90s). Kobe runs the triangle a lot of the time. Lebron and Wade basically take turns playing point guard. Brandon Roy (healthy), Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans Ginobili, etc. Instead of playing the traditional role of playing off the ball, they're setting up the offense.

But I don't think there's any sign of phasing out - lots of teams still run their offense normally and mixing and matching positions will always cause problems on defense. IMO, offense is never an issue as long as there's balance and the team knows their roles. Defensive mismatches are just too much to get around. Whether it's slower SGs on faster PGs or smaller PGs on big SGs, the team is going to be in scramble mode all game. Dallas got away with going small only because Kidd was somehow able to guard Wade/LBJ - no one else has that luxury.

 

[mgrand15]

I think you're seeing a lot of players that don't play PG handling the ball a lot which I sorta agree that its a newer thing (as in I don't think it was seen as much in the 90s). Kobe runs the triangle a lot of the time. Lebron and Wade basically take turns playing point guard. Brandon Roy (healthy), Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans Ginobili, etc. Instead of playing the traditional role of playing off the ball, they're setting up the offense.

But I don't think there's any sign of phasing out - lots of teams still run their offense normally and mixing and matching positions will always cause problems on defense. IMO, offense is never an issue as long as there's balance and the team knows their roles. Defensive mismatches are just too much to get around. Whether it's slower SGs on faster PGs or smaller PGs on big SGs, the team is going to be in scramble mode all game. Dallas got away with going small only because Kidd was somehow able to guard Wade/LBJ - no one else has that luxury.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by mgrand15

I think you're seeing a lot of players that don't play PG handling the ball a lot which I sorta agree that its a newer thing (as in I don't think it was seen as much in the 90s). Kobe runs the triangle a lot of the time. Lebron and Wade basically take turns playing point guard. Brandon Roy (healthy), Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans Ginobili, etc. Instead of playing the traditional role of playing off the ball, they're setting up the offense.

But I don't think there's any sign of phasing out - lots of teams still run their offense normally and mixing and matching positions will always cause problems on defense. IMO, offense is never an issue as long as there's balance and the team knows their roles. Defensive mismatches are just too much to get around. Whether it's slower SGs on faster PGs or smaller PGs on big SGs, the team is going to be in scramble mode all game. Dallas got away with going small only because Kidd was somehow able to guard Wade/LBJ - no one else has that luxury.

Wizard remember the only reason Wade went behind Bosh is cause he didnt have a set position. I think in certain situations you can have a big pg and a small SG, but 2 6'3" combo guards wont ever work again unless one is an elite defender.