B.I.G vs TUPAC

Originally Posted by 22 Deuces 22

B.I.G. was light-years ahead of 2pac in terms of raw lyricism.
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Word. I guess Pac just had a more diverse subject matter but in terms of lyricism and flow and everything else, I think BIG had him.
 
im really tired of people contrasting big and tupac from coast.. For those who dont remember tupac is from NYC. There flow was different but his west coasttraits all came from death row. Listen to pac when he was down with digital underground and tell me he switched up!

For that nas remark..Thats a whole new thread. I do like nas over both rappers but to say he is better is just a tad farfetched for my ears. Although thatfreestyle is hard to top, the topic at hand is Biggie and 2pac.

Opinions is all I ask for so stop trying to mod this thread and drop info
 
^PPL love to forget and hate when its mentioned that dude was born in BK travelled to the DMV area, even went to Canada I think before he made it to the LeftCoast, as an Mc his influences range wider than the normal rapper. Dude got to see a lot of hoods in America and all those other things made him the Mc andperson he was. I always claim dude I dont care where he was reppin(somebody coulda pulled his card for that) and I chalk it up as another great Brooklyn Mc

BK We The BEST!!!!
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Originally Posted by PackersGotMe

Ok so I know this topic will have controversy but while arguing with my girlfriend over this I couldn't leave it alone. I know both artist have there differences but were in the same era so this can be debated. In the end who was better.. your opinion..? Please include tracks, verses, albums that will support your opinion.

I choose my man BIG.. simple fact ..

"Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever
However, i stay coogi down to the socks
Rings and watch filled with rocks
And my jam knock in the mitsubishi
Girls pee pee when they see me
Navajos creep me in they tee pee"
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Dude, listen to hit em up, that track alone murdered the whole east coast!!!!
 
So is a dude like mos def. Who gets little of the love Pac gets Because fans just love (yes ho mo, for the young one's) Pac's sensitive thug image. Big was an image too though, so I'm not picking sides. Both of them are far to celebrated IMO (flame on).
But let's be 100 fellas................ Both of them were not making the best music of their time. Early-Mid 90's had many, many albums that spoke to me way more than either of these dudes. Both on an emotional level & an emcee level.
Let the flames begin by those who worship at the shrines of Pac & Big.


Why must you ALWAYS hate on Pac & Big?? How can you say Pac is a "sensative thug", its called being a human, Pac wasn't talkin about corny+@!* for you to use the term sensative, he was talking about sitting in prison and crying looking at pictures of his loved ones . . . That +@!* is very common,the hardest of the hard dudes be in prison crying in the middle of the night, that don't make them sensative or soft, Pac was the voice of that because hehad been through it too . . . I done been on the jack with homies in prison and cried myself, I done read letters from prison and cried, I saw my cousinsmother cry her eyes out during phone conversations when he was up a few years back.

As far as them not making THE BEST music, thats all subjective, but if you wanna keep it 100 when you talk about the best music from the 90s, no matter whereyou're from, if Big and Pac arent a part of the conversation you're lying to yourself, not only was it some of the best music but it is some of themost memorable hip hop music to this very day . . .
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Originally Posted by Starvin Harlem

As far as them not making THE BEST music, thats all subjective, but if you wanna keep it 100 when you talk about the best music from the 90s, no matter where you're from, if Big and Pac arent a part of the conversation you're lying to yourself, not only was it some of the best music but it is some of the most memorable hip hop music to this very day . . .
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real talk....we know EVERYONE still bumps biggie and Pac respectively...but my deck is on constant Pac
 
Why must you ALWAYS hate on Pac & Big?? How can you say Pac is a "sensative thug", its called being a human, Pac wasn't talkin about corny +@!* for you to use the term sensative, he was talking about sitting in prison and crying looking at pictures of his loved ones . . . That +@!* is very common, the hardest of the hard dudes be in prison crying in the middle of the night, that don't make them sensative or soft, Pac was the voice of that because he had been through it too . . . I done been on the jack with homies in prison and cried myself, I done read letters from prison and cried, I saw my cousins mother cry her eyes out during phone conversations when he was up a few years back.

As far as them not making THE BEST music, thats all subjective, but if you wanna keep it 100 when you talk about the best music from the 90s, no matter where you're from, if Big and Pac arent a part of the conversation you're lying to yourself, not only was it some of the best music but it is some of the most memorable hip hop music to this very day . . .
I'm not "hating" on anyone. But these dudes don't define that era for me. It's likea hip hop sin to criticize these dudes or something. Everyone else gets picked apart except these two. They get the all time-ultimate pass for some reason. Ijust don't see it that way.
They have become the Babe Ruth's of hip hop. They were great, but legitimate claims can & have been made for other dudes. Yet the general consensuswill always keep the them at the top. No matter what anyone else has or will do.
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I'm not "hating" on anyone. But these dudes don't define that era for me. It's like a hip hop sin to criticize these dudes or something. Everyone else gets picked apart accept these two. They get the all time-ultimate pass for some reason. I just don't see it that way.
They have become the Babe Ruth's of hip hop. They were great, but legitimate claims can & have been made for other dudes. Yet the general consensus will always keep the them at the top. No matter what anyone else has or will do.
Ok we can both agree hip hop isn't getting any better . . . So how can you down 2 of the most memorable artist in its history?? . . . You're acting as if they were 2 of the best in a Joe Schmo era, there were some very good artist coming out at that time, and those 2 are deffinetly themost memorable and the most celebrated . . . And its beyond their image, because the music still lives on today, Makaveli (1996) & Life After Death (1997)are to this day 2 of the best peices of modern day hip hop music, their no deneying that . . . If 2 artist that have been dead atleast 10 years can still bethe source of the most relevant music today, can you really call that overrated?? I mean if they are "overrated", why don;t some of thse underrateddudes make something that will overshadow their music and or their influence and stop eating of their plates . . .
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Celebrated & memorable does not equate to best in my mind. I'm not saying these dudes are trash. All I'm saying is acting like they are the handsdown, undisputed best of all time without even a discussion is, for one, not true in my mind & two, not doing any justice to the other legends in the game.I have KRS as my number one all time. I know you know the deal on Kris, but other, more uneducated types don't. Perception becomes reality at point. Andpeople will approach these other dudes in a diff light than Pac & Big. Continually acting like it's not even a question these dudes are the GOAT'scloses the lane for everyone else who may have a legitimate claim.
 
Both Pac and Big are in my top 5 or 6 of all time . . . They should be in everyone's top 10 . . . KRS One, Rakim, Nas, and Jay are also in there
 
There are a lot of BIG Verses that are better than Nas' verses. The thing is if I type them out it's not gonna make sense. BIG has the best flow anddelivery of all time excluding nobody. He could say such simple things and they would make you do a double take because they sounded so ill when he said it.Not saying BIG isn't lyrical cause he could hold his own against anyone. Just do your homework, I'm not gonna do it for you.
 
Serious question...are you mentally ******ed or do you just read the first sentence of every paragraph?
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This guy....what i am saying is this..you are saying BIGhad the greatest flow and delivery of all time on which I actually agree with you on..but I could say Nas is the deepest and most poetic rapper ever and Nasflow is no slouch either..on Illmatic and IWW his flow was ridiculous...so you are basing verses on just delivery and flow when there is alot more to a versethan that...so hermaphrodite I say this one more time...what are you really saying?
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BIG is here
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pac is here
 
Originally Posted by Bad N fluenz

Originally Posted by PackersGotMe

Ok so I know this topic will have controversy but while arguing with my girlfriend over this I couldn't leave it alone. I know both artist have there differences but were in the same era so this can be debated. In the end who was better.. your opinion..? Please include tracks, verses, albums that will support your opinion.

I choose my man BIG.. simple fact ..

"Heart throb, never, black and ugly as ever
However, i stay coogi down to the socks
Rings and watch filled with rocks
And my jam knock in the mitsubishi
Girls pee pee when they see me
Navajos creep me in they tee pee"
Click to expand...
Dude, listen to hit em up, that track alone murdered the whole east coast!!!!
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Ehh didnt quite murderer the east coast. In fact I don't see it as much of an effective diss. If any of you bother reading the highlighted its a good readand will change your opinion about how "hard" Hit Em Up really was/is.

"The Bottom Line What started the beef between Pac and Big? WasPac's diss any good? Just read the damn review.

 Before I start, I'd like to thank Dayo, a.k.a. The Balogun, forallowing me to sorta borrow his style for this review, and for influencing me with his 3 battle rap analyses.

What is the greatest diss song of all time? Asked on Epinions, this question prompts a multitude of answers: "The B*tch In Yoo," "NoVaseline," and "The Bridge Is Over," to name a few. Unfortunately, outside of the sheltered realm of Epinions is a big, scary, ignorant world, aworld where people think they're thugs just because they listen to 50 Cent. Unless the "hip-hop heads" of this world are too caught up by 50Cent's "hardcore" rivalry with "Cam'Ron," an inquiry about battle raps will always illicit the same response: "Hit 'EmUp," usually accompanied by a pearl of wisdom, such as "Thug Life 4 Eva!!!".

While the notoriety of 2Pac's diss to basically the entire East Coast as well as pretty much anyone who ever made eye contact with him is indisputable, canit truly be called a legendary diss track? Moreover, what caused this "beef"? Interestingly, 2Pac was actually good friends with the primaryrecipient of this song, Brooklyn emcee, The Notorious B.I.G. Apart from a mutual respect for each other's music, Biggie and Pac seemed to complete oneanother, both possessing traits that the other envied. Biggie respected 2Pac's credibility from his impoverished upbringing; though Biggie claimed that hegrew up broke, he actually came from a low-middle class upbringing and pretty much got whatever he wanted from his mother. Pac's survival of the povertyBiggie rapped about gave him a realness that Biggie would never know. On the other hand, Biggie had the street credibility that Pac struggled to achieve.Though he was associated with gang members, 2Pac was an art student first and foremost, rarely getting any credibility on the streets; the imposing Biggie,however, often witnessed people cross to the other side of the street when he approached.

So what caused the breakup between these two friends? Well, it didn't help that 2Pac got shot in the same studio where Junior M.A.F.I.A. was recording.Actually, neither Biggie, nor his crew knew Pac was coming. By the time he had arrived at the studio for a recording, Lil' Cease spotted him from a balconyand went to tell Biggie. Unfortunately, before Cease could get down to the lobby and greet Pac, he was being robbed. By the time the police arrived, Pac hadbeen shot 5 times. As Big made it downstairs, the paramedics were carrying 2Pac away as he greeted his friend with his middle finger. The fact that 2Pac laterheard that Biggie had recorded a song called "Who Shot Ya" made things worse. The fact that the song was made before Pac was shot didn't meanmuch to him. But maybe, just maybe the beef could have been averted if Biggie and his crew had taken the time to visit Pac in prison. Unfortunately, Pac wasleft to himself while incarcerated for rape charges, only able to read and marinate in his anger. He was eventually bailed by Suge Knight and signed to DeathRow Records. Shortly after doing a "recording session" with Biggie's wife, Faith Evans, he released his infamous "Hit 'Em Up".

But what about the other emcees he targeted? Well, Junior M.A.F.I.A.'s inclusion is rather obvious; they were Biggie's crew. Mobb Deep earned theirspot for appearing on Capone-N-Noreaga's West Coast diss, "L.A., L.A." Chino XL earned himself a bar for rapping the controversial line, "Bythis industry, I'm trying not to get f*cked, like 2Pac in jail". And the rest? Did 2Pac draw names out of a hat? Who knows. By 1996, "Hit 'EmUp" was on the streets, and with the infamous line, "That's why I f*cked your b*tch," the beef was on.

I ain't got no muthaf*ckin friends

Well, you're not doing a good job of making friends, are you?

That's why I f*cked your b*tch you fat muthaf*cka

A far cry from Jay-Z's "You-know-who did you-know-what with you-know-who; let's keep that between me and you". Pac isn't exactly the kingof subtlety here.

 First off, f*ck your b*tch, and the click you claim
West Side when we ride, come equipped with game
You claim to be a playa, but I f*ck ed your wife
We bust on Bad Boys, n*ggas f*cked for Life

Wow…One decent diss in there, with Pac denouncing Biggie's pimp image from songs like "One More Chance" and "Big Poppa". The rest isgeneric gangsta crap.

 Plus Puffy tryin' to see me, weak hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia, some mark a*s b*tches
We keep on coming while we running for ya jewels
Steady gunning keep on busting at them fools
You know the rules
Little Ceasar go ask you homie how I'll leave ya
Cut your young a*s up see yah in pieces
Now be deceased
 Lil' Kim, don't f*ck around with real G's
Quick to snatch your ugly a*s, off the streets
So f*ck peace

Again, one decent line; 2Pac rebukes Lil' Kim's sex-symbol image and hardcore image. Still nothing groundbreaking.

 I'll let them n*ggas know it's on for life
Don't let the West Side ride tonight
Bad Boys murdered on wax and killed
f*ck with me and get your caps peeled

Pac starts up the "ridah" image that would be prominent on his upcoming album, All Eyez On Me.


[Chorus]

 Grab your glocks when you see 2pac
Call the cops when you see 2Pac, Uhh
Who shot me, but, your punks didn't finish
Now, you 'bout to feel the wrath of a menace
N*gga, I hit 'em up

Wow…threats of violence. That's new! Seriously, 2Pac gives us more of the same generic crap. He has yet to do much more than call out names andsubsequently threaten to kill said individuals.

[Spoken]
 Check this out, you muthaf*ckas know what time it is
 I don't know why I'm even on this track, y'all n*ggas ain't even on mylevel
I'm going to let my little homies ride on ya b*tch made a*s Bad Boys b*tches

Okay, I gotta admit, that was a good diss. Pac basically claims that his "rivals" are so inferior to him that his "little homies," theOutlawz, could defeat them. Unfortunately, this proves so blatantly untrue, as 2Pac's "little homies" are deficient in the skills department.Truthfully, pretty much everybody Pac dissed are more technically gifted then him. Oh well. There goes a decent diss. It only gets worse with the Outlawz.

[Outlawz]
 Get out the way, yo; get out the way, yo
Biggie Smalls just got dropped
Little Move pa*s the mac, and let me hit 'im in his back
Frank White needs to get spanked right for setting up traps

"Hit 'im in his back"? "Spanked right"? Is this a diss or a sexual advance?

 Little accident murderers, and I ain't never heardof ya
Poise-less gats attack when I'm serving ya
Spank the shank, your whole style when I gank
Guard your rank, cause I'm a slam your a*s in a pang

More spanking going on here. Then he goes on to make up new words to threaten Biggie. Or maybe it's Mobb Deep? I'm not sure. Such is a fault of thistrack.

 Puffy weaker than a f*ckin' block I'm runningthrough, n*gga
And I'm smoking Junior Mafia in front of ya, n*gga
With the ready power tucked in my Guess
Under my Eddie Bauer
Your clout petty sour
I push packages ever hour
I hit 'em up

A small reference to Puff Daddy's lack of street credibility, but seriously, what do you expect from a guy named "Puffy"? The rest ismore generic thug crap, done even worse than 2Pac did it.

[2Pac]
 Peep how we do it, keep it real
Its penitentiary steel, this ain't no freestyle battle
All you n*ggas getting killed with your mouths open
Tryin' to come up off of me you and the clouds hoping, smoking dope

Wow…at least Pac issues a disclaimer saying that this track isn't an actual battle rap. It still comes off as a bit pathetic, though.

 It's like a Shermine, n*ggas think they learned to fly
But they burn muthaf*cka you deserve to die
 Talking about you getting money, but its funny to me
All you n*ggas living bummy while you f*cking with me?

*Sigh*…More death threats. And unless something got lost in translation, it looks like Pac's insinuating that the Junior M.A.F.I.A. live likes bums eventhough they make songs like "Get Money".

 I'm a self made millionaire
thug livin' out of prison, pistols in the air
Biggie remember when I use to let you sleep on the couch
And beg the b*tch to let you sleep in the house
Now its all about Versace, you copied my style
Five shots couldn't drop me, I took it and smiled
Now I'm back to set the record straight
With my AK, I'm still the thug that you love to hate
Muthaf*cka, I'll Hit 'Em Up

Bragging about money…what a trite battle technique. LL Cool J tried it against Kool Moe Dee and look what happened to him. Biggie did sleep on 2Pac's couchonce, but it's hardly diss-worthy, especially considering all the favors Biggie did for Pac when Pac visited him in Brooklyn. And what's this aboutBiggie copying 2Pac's style? I don't remember 2Pac rapping about Versace…Moreover, since when does screaming for police and giving your friends thefinger count as smiling? And then 2Pac thinks he's Ice Cube with the last lines. Just when you think things can't get worse, his "littlehomies" pop up again.

[Outlawz]
 I'm from N-E-W Jers'
Where plenty of murder occurs
No points to come, we bring drama to all you herds
Now go check the scenario
Little Cease, I'll bring you fake G's to ya knees
Coppin' pleas with these
Little Kim is ya coked up or doped up
Get your little Junior Whopper click smoked up
What the f*ck, is you stupid?

More attacks on the M.A.F.I.A.'s street cred, including calling them "Junior Whopper," which was pretty funny. The rest of the lines are more ofthe same, boring stuff. Now comes the rampage…

 I take money, crash and mash through Brooklyn
With my click looting, shooting, and polluting your block
With fifteen shot, cocked glock to your knot
Outlaw Mafia click moving up another notch
And your Pop stars popped and get dropped and mopped
And all your fake a*s east coast props brainstormed and locked

This just seems comical. Being as Biggie was the biggest and most respected figure on the street's of Brooklyn, it's hard to imagine a couple youngpunks running rampant blasting everything in sight. Especially since they're from the West Coast. Not happening. But the funniest part is that thisguy's verse is the best in the song, packed with more multi-syllables than Pac has ever used. His "little homie" outshined him. How embarrassing.

[2Pac]
 You'se a beat biter, Pac style taker
I'll tell you to face, you ain't nothing sh*t but a faker
So fill the Alize with a chaser
'bout to get murdered for the paper
E.d.i I mean post the scene of the caper
Like a loc, with little Cease in a choke
Toting smoke, we ain't no muthaf*ckin' joke

Is it just me, or did Pac say this a few times already?

 Thug Life, n*ggas better be known
Be approaching in the wide open, gun smoking
No need for hoping it's a battle lost
I got 'em crossed as soon as the funk is bopping off
n*gga, I hit 'em up

Hmm…I seem to remember reports of 2Pac declaring "Thug Life" dead while imprisoned. Then Pac goes back to claiming this is a battle after all. A bithypocritical if you ask me…

[Spoken]
Now you tell me who won

*CoughMobbDeepCough* Pac then goes on to make more thug comments before crossing the line.

 Oh yeah, Mobb Deep
You wanna f*ck with us
You little young a*s muthaf*ckas
Don't one of you n*ggas got sickle-cell or something
You f*cking with me, n*gga ?
You f*ck around and catch a seizure or a heart-attack

Indeed, Prodigy of Mobb Deep suffers from sickle-cell anemia, but that's not something to mock. I mean, it's not his fault. If he had hemorrhoids orwarts in an embarrassing place, that's one thing, but Pac definitely crossed the line with that one. A very weak attempt at a diss. The rest of the songconsists of 2Pac speaking to pretty much everyone on the East Coast with various threats.

Final Opinion: The lyrics are weak. The guests are terrible. The song does little more than talk about killing various East Coast artists. Moreover, the wholepremise of 2Pac and his crew overrunning the East Coast is inconceivable. Overall, this song is a terrible diss. For the rest of 2Pac's life, Biggieremained confused and hurt that his friend had turned on him like that. He never responded aside from a couple brief mentions of the beef in Life AfterDeath. Mobb Deep struck back with the excellent "Drop A Gem On 'Em", the only real reply to this song. Chino XL made amends with 2Pac beforethe latter's death. However, despite the overall weakness of the song, it brought tension between East and West to a boiling point. These tensions couldhave been the cause of the deaths of both 2Pac and The Notorious B.I.G. And to think this could all have been avoided if 2Pac and Biggie had just had a simpleconversation to sort out the confusion
 
Ha ha, homie watch the video and come back. y'all picking apart this song as if u never heard it before and you just read the lyrics. Fool ain't youknow if pac made a threat directly to a person on video and it aired world wide, pac is pretty much screwed and messed up his parole. He had to make it clearwho he was dissing by not makin it so he is not threating them, y'all know puffy would've took it to court if it were true, don't front.


Pac was nice in what he did, Biggie was nice in what he did. THERE BOTH RAPPERS ARE NICE. nOW END this garbage already.

for the long time i have been on niketalk these Pac VS Big things have been coming it's like what the hell wasn't there one of these a few days ago ora week ago maybe.
 
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