Can I get a favor? (Previously, Let's discuss the current UC Campus strikes)

[nikeairforce1]

that is powerful in stark contrast to all of the shouting and chanting that we've seen (not that there's anything wrong with that)

that is one damn fine demonstration of peaceful assembly

 

[bombbiggidyphil]

Originally Posted by wcghost

"UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students."

ridiculous 

^^^that'll be something she remembers for a long time.   

 

[jfmartimcdandruff]

Originally Posted by NikeAirForce1

that is powerful in stark contrast to all of the shouting and chanting that we've seen (not that there's anything wrong with that)

that is one damn fine demonstration of peaceful assembly

yup
well done students 

 

[veryanalytical85]

As much as I hate to be really cynical about this whole idea of the occupy movement, peaceful protesting and social justice...
Unless the people who are in charge of this whole propaganda have a change in heart (which would be a miracle in of itself) and understand not only the damage they have done to the students, our economy and the United States as a whole. The very foundation of this country and of its freedom(s) in every sense of the word, will (or already is) collapse (ing) and life as we know it, won't ever be the same 

.

 

[buggz05]

Lieutenant John Pike Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 [email protected] Address: 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apt 616. Davis, CA 95618-6017 Skype: japike3

No mercy

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by CoolGrayMemo

Much doesn't shake me but that was freaking TRIPPY. 

 

[sillyputty]

Serious question...
How many of you all think the police were justified?

I mean honestly, I'm reading reports that just show that these kids are being rambunctious protestors for no reason... Like the cops gave them plenty of warning and even pleaded with them to move...

Then these kids are just sitting on a freaking sidewalk... I mean yeah, its blocking a path but still do the cops ever have a right to restore order? 

 

[bravo]

Originally Posted by buggz05

Lieutenant John Pike Records Unit Manager Phone: 530-752-3989 Cell: 530-979-0184 [email protected] Address: 4005 Cowell Blvd, Apt 616. Davis, CA 95618-6017 Skype: japike3

No mercy

 

[luong1209]

S/O to the Davis students for standing up. There have been walkouts @ SFSU, but nothing crazy.

It's getting extremely ridiculous.

 

[buggz05]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Serious question...
How many of you all think the police were justified?

I mean honestly, I'm reading reports that just show that these kids are being rambunctious protestors for no reason... Like the cops gave them plenty of warning and even pleaded with them to move...

Then these kids are just sitting on a freaking sidewalk... I mean yeah, its blocking a path but still do the cops ever have a right to restore order? 

Watch the hour or so long video of exactly what happened

 

[return of the mac]

Originally Posted by ONEFORALL

Seems like America is a ticking time bomb. Free education and healthcare ftw. Why it can't be done in the US?

They're both businesses and the right kind of people make $$$ off these two markets  

 

[villansfinest]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Serious question...
How many of you all think the police were justified?

I think that the people camping broke a law, or a university rule. I think the police told them to leave/disband. I think they refused to do that. I think other individuals who were not part of the original law/rule breaking saw a potential dispute between authority (police) and students and chose to align themselves with the students who had broken a law/rule. I think that the police realized that opposition could grow and escalate. I think that the police announced that the individuals involved needed to disband or they would be arrested. I think that the police made attempts to separate the individuals so that they could be formally arrested. I think that the individuals resisted arrest by locking arms and refusing to be separated and arrested. I think that the police decided that instead of risking possible violent confrontation and struggle on an individual level, they could use pepper spray to weaken the bonds between the individuals.

These are just my opinions. I've talked to a lot of other people and groups about this all weekend. 

I think talking about this helps raise awareness and opens lines of communication so that situations like this can be avoided in the future.

Also, see my post on page 1. The law enforcement response to this incident is overshadowing the message of the protesters. Too many people concerned about police reaction and protocol when they should be concerned about discussing the overall financial and societal situation that led to this incident.

Anybody wanting a wider angle view of this situation might be interested in reading the Legislative Analyst's Office report that shows the Fiscal Outlook for 2012-2013 for California: http://lao.ca.gov/reports/2011/bud/fiscal_outlook/fiscal_outlook_2011.aspx 

Among other things, you can see that anticipated expenditures look sort of like this for 2012-2013 and beyond:
http://
http://
http://http://
[font=Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/font]*edit: sorry unable to post chart, check page 26 of the pdf, or about halfway down the link for html*
The point that i wanted to make by posting this is that the recent economic situation is resulting in triggered cuts to education budgets.Check out the line items above for the UC system compared to the larger expense items in the budget. I believe that cuts can be made elsewhere to keep funding levels at the UC stable enough to avoid the hikes. OR at least then, the students would know that the administration is 100% culpable for the tuition increases. As it is now, it appears that the administration can point to the legislature/governor and the legislature/governor can point to the UC administration. If the legislature and governor wanted to, they could find the money by taking a few hundred million from SOMEWHERE ELSE in the budget. The UC regents are choosing to replace that lost funding by raising student fees. Why not decrease administrative salaries and benefits? Why not campaign for increased taxes to restore the funding cuts? Why not pursue funding from established alumni? Why not lower other operating expenses? They have also attempted to increase admissions of 'non-resident' students in the name of DIVERSITY...  by the way, non-resident students pay more than double the tuition of resident students. 

I think the students involved in this don't really have a grasp of the situation they are involved in. I'm not sure what they were attempting to accomplish. I've been to that quad. I've stood in that spot. Protesting on a UC campus is like preaching to the choir. Everybody that walks by already knows what you're doing there. I think the peaceful sit ins at Administration buildings were more successful in opening a dialogue with the decision makers. I think the only thing this did was create a photo op for a broader less defined "resistance" movement that will twist it for their own purposes and within a few days people will have forgotten that this was about tuition increases in the first place.

 

[frostythepoptart]

this is really a side note but i think the government needs to better checks on police officers.

like case in point how simple it was for the commander to make a statement saying the officers were threatened and make them see like victims who defended themselves as a last resort when video evidence clearly shows otherwise.

and there isn't always video evidence, its just their word vs ours. those cops in ny just got busted for planting drugs on people to meet quotas and god knows how long they been doing that for...

cops can more or less go out and kill someone and make up any story they want to justify it and they got a 50% chance of getting off clean

 

[8kbmj23]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

The California educational higher education system was started on a very laudable premise. The mission behind the JC/CSU/UC system was that the inability to pay would not stop smart people from getting access to higher education and the WW2 generation, accustomed to achieving big things with small budgets, spent the 1950's and 1960's, mass producing world class institutions of higher learning (the only down side may be architectural, as CSUN, UCSB, UCSC, UCI, San Jose State and San Diego State and any other post WW2 public university in CA, that have 20,000 or more students all look way too similar). The Two flagship Campuses, UCLA and Cal, were improved and expanded and were elevated to elite status.

From the 1940's to the 1970's, California students could take advantage of the most democratic and merocratic education system in history. If you dropped out of HS, you could one day work and take JC classes while doing so and get career training or transfer to a place where you could gt a BA or BS. The CSU system provided good and plentiful and cheap bachelors degrees and masters degrees. Bright students could go to a UC school and got an even better undergraduate education and could pursue their PhD. Most amazing of all is the fact that the two crown jewels of the system, UCLA and Cal, once did not charge for tuition, they only cared about your past academic performance.

The problem is that student populations grew and grew and now the idea is that everyone must go to college and our cash strapped State cannot afford "free" tuition or even extremely low cost tuition. In some ways it is fairly unfair to have have across the board low tuition. Only poor students should get low or no cost tuition charges and the legions of upper middle class and wealthy students should have to pay the full cost of their attendance.

The situation with Cal and UCLA is especially strange because most of the students are not poor and many are very well off and could pay for it out of their's or their own parents' pockets. I felt like I was stealing when I got my Masters at UCLA because I was privileged enough to get an advanced degree at a school that is comprable to most Ivy league schools and yet the tax payers in California are picking up the majority of the tab. My girlfriend, who just got her BA at Cal, felt the same way.

I feel like I would make up for this inequity with a nice alumnus donations but even a school like Cal or UCLA seem to just sequester that sort of money. Instead of using their boutiful alumni giving, instead of means testing and making rich students pay, the UC, CSU and JC leadership would rather keep that endowment money and their mega salaries and instead prefer to sit back and squeeze students and, to a greater extent, tax payers to keep feeding them more money.

It is ironic because so many professors and university administrators love to talk about social justice and yet they are comfortable pinching the working glass guy, who fills up is gas tank, buys a pack of smokes and plays a lotto ticket, all so they can pack their lectures halls with rich kids, who are not even paying more than half of the cost of their being a there.

I would argue against the notion that most students are underpaying for tuition at Cal because I know that 1/3 of students are low-income, 1/3 are middle-income, and only 1/3 are wealthy. Low-income and middle-income students cannot afford rising tuition rates, especially given the current economy. The biggest issue is the state's disinvestment in public education. This is the case because of lax corporate taxes and the expenses of a booming prison system.

 

[hankmoody]

Interview with a pepper-sprayed UC Davis student
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/20/ucdeyetwitness.html

 

[bluexsneakerhead]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Interview with a pepper-sprayed UC Davis student
http://boingboing.net/2011/11/20/ucdeyetwitness.html

 that's absolutely outrageous!

 

[checks mcgee]

so uh, any1 prank dude yet?

 

[coolgraymemo]

I was at today's Rally at the UC Davis quad.

Most people want to remove the UC Davis police and create a UC Davis Student Community police force.

There are also a bunch of "hippies" and "weirdos" that aren't UCD students.
There were lots of pretty girls though.

 

[villansfinest]

Mem, just curious, did anybody talk about the tuition today? I mean, was the original intent of the camping discussed or carried on?

 

[coolgraymemo]

Originally Posted by villansfinest

Mem, just curious, did anybody talk about the tuition today? I mean, was the original intent of the camping discussed or carried on?

I don't think so. I was there for about an hour and the main thing I remember hearing was about the Police using excessive force.
A week from today, there is supposed to be another strike since that is when the regents are meeting. 

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Originally Posted by villansfinest

Mem, just curious, did anybody talk about the tuition today? I mean, was the original intent of the camping discussed or carried on?

Villan, you're probably the only person on to something. I was there last week to protest the fee hikes and the crowd gathered (based upon an aerial view photo of today's rally) was relatively 1/3 the size of today's crowd which gathered in response to the police brutality. More and more people who weren't involved before are coming out (which is good) but they're not involved because they are knowledgeable or seek to discourage the regent's decisions...they seek only to conform (which is bad). I saw a bunch of FB posts but none of it was relative to what was originally set out to be accomplished. Most of the people in the crowd today were tag-alongs who only wanted a photo op, as you've said, and to be able to proclaim their supposed pride as an aggie...prideful of what? Their ability to sheepishly attend a rally that was only tangent to the bigger issue at hand? Maybe. Either way, I went to work instead of the rally, and I'm not upset that I did either...What I'm afraid of is this becoming something which the crowd will turn away from the original issue at hand...and that's the issue of students and outrageous fees. People have to remember this still isn't the OWS, it's moving in parallel to it, but the fee hikes are more focused upon the Regents specifically