Christianity and Conservatism

[danikerhino]

Originally Posted by 3kl3kt0s

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by 3kl3kt0s

Perhaps I'm not being clear. It's very possible that I'm being incoherent.

What baffles me is that you keep saying that Christian theologians would disagree with my viewpoints, but I would say that I'm pretty well-versed in what Christian theologians believe, and I believe the same things. My viewpoints about what the Bible says is very consistent with what Biblical Christian theologians hold to. Theologians would categorize my beliefs as Orthodox Christianity.

To be honest, it kind of sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to Christianity. It sorta sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm just trying to inform you about what my faith is really about. That's all.

Thing is I know exactly what I'm talking about and in no way your views "Orthodox Christianity". The context of the that verse I posted says nothing about those rules only applying to unbelievers, and even if it did I could find another verse that just flat out condemns it and from the new testament. I don't think you understand my argument

God hates the sin but loves the sinner. Yes, homosexuality is condemned in the Bible. But homosexuals can be forgiven. You talk about rules, but that's not what Christianity is about. Read Romans. Christianity is about grace, not the law. In fact, that's what made Jesus mad about the religious leaders of his day. They kept on emphasizing the rules, but they didn't know anything about love, justice and mercy. Read Matthew chapter 23. And yes, this is true, Orthodox Christianity. Those angry dudes that call homosexuals offensive names do not represent true Christianity. They're doin it all wrong.

Good statement, I've always believed the commandments were guideline to keep the world in check. God knows nobody is perfect and I think hewould have more respect for an overall good guy compared to a judgmental Christian that shuns everyone for being different.

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by LoveOfTheGame916

What I would like to know is why is there a discussion about homosexuals going to heaven. If it clearly says in 1 Corinthians that they will not see the kingdom of God then what's there to argue about. God's word is law...period.

Yup except in this country.. In this country his word doesn't mean !$%*... But those loveable Conservatives who "protect ourfreedoms" and "do what the founders did" inject God's irrelevant word into our lives. When this country was set up to keep god's wordout of our everyday lives and practice whatever you see fit. Nothing if that's what you like..

It also says it is a sin to eat seafood (Leviticus 11:9-12).. And like quoted many times any sin is punishable by hell.. Also any lie is punishable byhell..The bible promotes the ability to live of the most immoral and sinful life but the act of prayer, belief and repenting is the make up test to gainsalvation.

All this Bible talk is bull crap anyway.. Does anyone not realize it wasn't written by anyone remotely affiliated with God (as if anyone had a lifeline tohim anyway).. It is just stories passed down as moral tales of what to do right and wrong. Also to scare people into not doing something. Then classified intocertain books and then people of that day injected their political views and ideologies. And there you have the Bible. The Torah, The Qur'an, etc.

Also who is to say Christianity has it right and not Buddhists.. Or maybe Islam has it right.. Or maybe Judaism has it right.. Or maybe all of these organizedreligions are wrong and the Sun god is the right myth... Or maybe all along us crazy atheists and agnostics were the ones who got it right.

Hence each day I get a larger disdained for each (Christianity and Conservatism)but at varying rates.

 

[niketalker23]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by LoveOfTheGame916

What I would like to know is why is there a discussion about homosexuals going to heaven. If it clearly says in 1 Corinthians that they will not see the kingdom of God then what's there to argue about. God's word is law...period.

Yup except in this country.. In this country his word doesn't mean !$%*... But those loveable Conservatives who "protect our freedoms" and "do what the founders did" inject God's irrelevant word into our lives. When this country was set up to keep god's word out of our everyday lives and practice whatever you see fit. Nothing if that's what you like..

It also says it is a sin to eat seafood (Leviticus 11:9-12).. And like quoted many times any sin is punishable by hell.. Also any lie is punishable by hell..The bible promotes the ability to live of the most immoral and sinful life but the act of prayer, belief and repenting is the make up test to gain salvation.

All this Bible talk is bull crap anyway.. Does anyone not realize it wasn't written by anyone remotely affiliated with God (as if anyone had a lifeline to him anyway).. It is just stories passed down as moral tales of what to do right and wrong. Also to scare people into not doing something. Then classified into certain books and then people of that day injected their political views and ideologies. And there you have the Bible. The Torah, The Qur'an, etc.

Also who is to say Christianity has it right and not Buddhists.. Or maybe Islam has it right.. Or maybe Judaism has it right.. Or maybe all of these organized religions are wrong and the Sun god is the right myth... Or maybe all along us crazy atheists and agnostics were the ones who got it right.

Hence each day I get a larger disdained for each (Christianity and Conservatism)but at varying rates.

You went off topic and it does not say in the bible you can't eat seafood. It says you can't eat anything in the seas without fins or scales, mainlyreferring or shrimp. Like I said don't come in here to bash Christianity..

And a lot of you are pointing things out from the old testament, and the only christian denomination to put an emphasis on the old testament is seventh-dayadventists. Most Christian denominations, put an emphasis on the new testament..

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by LoveOfTheGame916

What I would like to know is why is there a discussion about homosexuals going to heaven. If it clearly says in 1 Corinthians that they will not see the kingdom of God then what's there to argue about. God's word is law...period.

Yup except in this country.. In this country his word doesn't mean !$%*... But those loveable Conservatives who "protect our freedoms" and "do what the founders did" inject God's irrelevant word into our lives. When this country was set up to keep god's word out of our everyday lives and practice whatever you see fit. Nothing if that's what you like..

It also says it is a sin to eat seafood (Leviticus 11:9-12).. And like quoted many times any sin is punishable by hell.. Also any lie is punishable by hell..The bible promotes the ability to live of the most immoral and sinful life but the act of prayer, belief and repenting is the make up test to gain salvation.

All this Bible talk is bull crap anyway.. Does anyone not realize it wasn't written by anyone remotely affiliated with God (as if anyone had a lifeline to him anyway).. It is just stories passed down as moral tales of what to do right and wrong. Also to scare people into not doing something. Then classified into certain books and then people of that day injected their political views and ideologies. And there you have the Bible. The Torah, The Qur'an, etc.

Also who is to say Christianity has it right and not Buddhists.. Or maybe Islam has it right.. Or maybe Judaism has it right.. Or maybe all of these organized religions are wrong and the Sun god is the right myth... Or maybe all along us crazy atheists and agnostics were the ones who got it right.

Hence each day I get a larger disdained for each (Christianity and Conservatism)but at varying rates.

You went off topic and it does not say in the bible you can't eat seafood. It says you can't eat anything in the seas without fins or scales, mainly referring or shrimp. Like I said don't come in here to bash Christianity..

And a lot of you are pointing things out from the old testament, and the only christian denomination to put an emphasis on the old testament is seventh-day adventists. Most Christian denominations, put an emphasis on the new testament..

Yet the old testament is still canonical in all sects of christianity, just take it out make it apocryphal.

 

[krazyg]

I think the problem is the Bible. The book was written 2000 years ago, and people still believe in it word for word. The book was written to apply towardscivilization during that time period, I don't understand how 100% of its rules and principles can be applied to a society totally different 2000 years intothe future. I honestly do not think the apostles expected their literary work to have survived 2000 years and make such a huge influence on the world.

 

[infamousod]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by infamousod

In statistics, a spurious relationship (or, sometimes, spurious correlation or spurious regression) is a mathematical relationship in which two occurrences
have no causal connection, yet it may be inferred that they do, due to a certain third, unseen factor (referred to as a "confounding factor" or
"lurking variable"). The spurious relationship gives an impression of a worthy link between two groups that is invalid when objectively examined.

A.K.A. "Having your cake and eating it too."



que?

 

[essential1]

Originally Posted by NikeTalker23

Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by LoveOfTheGame916

What I would like to know is why is there a discussion about homosexuals going to heaven. If it clearly says in 1 Corinthians that they will not see the kingdom of God then what's there to argue about. God's word is law...period.

Yup except in this country.. In this country his word doesn't mean !$%*... But those loveable Conservatives who "protect our freedoms" and "do what the founders did" inject God's irrelevant word into our lives. When this country was set up to keep god's word out of our everyday lives and practice whatever you see fit. Nothing if that's what you like..

It also says it is a sin to eat seafood (Leviticus 11:9-12).. And like quoted many times any sin is punishable by hell.. Also any lie is punishable by hell..The bible promotes the ability to live of the most immoral and sinful life but the act of prayer, belief and repenting is the make up test to gain salvation.

All this Bible talk is bull crap anyway.. Does anyone not realize it wasn't written by anyone remotely affiliated with God (as if anyone had a lifeline to him anyway).. It is just stories passed down as moral tales of what to do right and wrong. Also to scare people into not doing something. Then classified into certain books and then people of that day injected their political views and ideologies. And there you have the Bible. The Torah, The Qur'an, etc.

Also who is to say Christianity has it right and not Buddhists.. Or maybe Islam has it right.. Or maybe Judaism has it right.. Or maybe all of these organized religions are wrong and the Sun god is the right myth... Or maybe all along us crazy atheists and agnostics were the ones who got it right.

Hence each day I get a larger disdained for each (Christianity and Conservatism)but at varying rates.

You went off topic and it does not say in the bible you can't eat seafood. It says you can't eat anything in the seas without fins or scales, mainly referring or shrimp. Like I said don't come in here to bash Christianity..

And a lot of you are pointing things out from the old testament, and the only christian denomination to put an emphasis on the old testament is seventh-day adventists. Most Christian denominations, put an emphasis on the new testament..

Sorry not all seafood just some of it.. But God forbid it be without fins or scales, then you are going to hell
[h2]Leviticus 11:9-12
[/h2]
[sup]9[/sup]These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas,and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

[sup]10[/sup]And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and ofany living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

[sup]11[/sup]They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have theircarcases in abomination.

Leviticus is part of the new testament. (Person below me is correct.. But still it is part of a majorreligion.. And still ridiculous..) Ok let me give an example of a ridiculous story for Christians (i.e. Noah).. It doesn't matter what religion it is allfantasy and no more believable than the teachings of Greek Mythology... Hence leads me to the main point of this whole thing. Christianity has and is notsupposed to have any place in the ideas of our Government. In one's individual home but not in the government
Ok soooooooooooooo the New Testament is written less by man than the Old Testament???? Do you know which one came first?

And repenting is not in the New Testament? The Conservatives tell all "sinners" they are going to hell, and use the Bible is the proof. When theylive some of the most immoral, dishonest lives but have immunity ideal because they believe and repent. But god forbid, you are gay, you are going to hell//

And I am not bashing religion, all of what I said is relevant to the topic..

When I said in this country God's word is not supposed to mean @$#!... That is not the truth.. Well it is the truth when we talk about government. And thehypocrisy of Conservative who use the whole platform of religion in gov. when it isn't supposed to be there. But they are the "followers of thefounders"

All I said was very relevant to what you originally asked.. Being Conservatism and Christianity. Sooooooo certain faults and hypocrisy of the religion theypromote and try to put into law.. Pointing out how this part of religion is wrong, is part of stating how Conservative ideology at the core is wrong.. Oncethey mixed it with religion they went off a cliff..

To talk about Christianity and its role in Conservatism and to not point out why mixing the two is wrong, through words of the Bible, well then you have nodiscussion at all.

 

[sonunox34]

Originally Posted by Essential1

Leviticus 11:9-12

[sup]9[/sup]These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

[sup]10[/sup]And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

[sup]11[/sup]They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Leviticus is part of the new testament.

Sorry, but it's not. It's part of the ancient and wildly inconsistent Old Testament.

 

[sonunox34]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by 3kl3kt0s

Perhaps I'm not being clear. It's very possible that I'm being incoherent.

What baffles me is that you keep saying that Christian theologians would disagree with my viewpoints, but I would say that I'm pretty well-versed in what Christian theologians believe, and I believe the same things. My viewpoints about what the Bible says is very consistent with what Biblical Christian theologians hold to. Theologians would categorize my beliefs as Orthodox Christianity.

To be honest, it kind of sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to Christianity. It sorta sounds like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm just trying to inform you about what my faith is really about. That's all.

Thing is I know exactly what I'm talking about and in no way your views "Orthodox Christianity". The context of the that verse I posted says nothing about those rules only applying to unbelievers, and even if it did I could find another verse that just flat out condemns it and from the new testament. I don't think you understand my argument

But check this out: You ever heard of the "Harrowing of Hell"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_hell

In John 3:5, Jesus says "unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God". This statement is interpreted to mean that those who are not baptized (which in Roman Catholic tradition removes the stain of original sin) cannot go to Heaven. In Roman Catholic tradition, Limbo is the afterlife for those who die unbaptized but are not guilty of mortal sin. Those righteous souls who died before the Crucifixion were thought to have remained in the Limbo of the Fathers, until "He [Jesus] descended into Hell" to take those souls to heaven (as stated in the Apostles Creed). This teaching is also known as the harrowing of Hell. It is also important to note that post Vatican II, the Catholic Church claims that it is possible for a non-baptized individual to go to heaven, if they do not have baptism because of invincible ignorance (which is not their own fault), but follow the moral law written in their hearts. It is assumed that, had they understood the necessity of baptism, they would have chosen to be baptized. This notion is called baptism of desire.

So for 1960 years, everyone who was not baptized a Christian was going to hell or purgatory. Even still-born or miscarried babies. Then, WAIT, HOLD ON, in the1960's Vatican II meetings they decided that everyone was safe since JC took a trip down to hell and took their "ignorant" souls up to heaven.

You see how things change? The church can manipulate anything in scripture. The Mormons didn't let black people be priests until the 70's, becauseapparently God was ready at that time. WHAT?

So what I'm saying is that just because it says something in this 2,000-4,000-year-old text doesn't mean it still holds true. No one is defending theshellfish or foreskin statements in the OT, because they're ridiculous. What about the slavery verses? Were the abolitionists wrong according to the Bible?

One last thing: Honestly, how do we know what really goes on in Heaven? No one has been there and came back. No onehas told us about it, and don't say Jesus or God because that's real debatable and potentially exaggerated/mistranslated. If your only proof is theBible, the same book that Catholic authorities continue to modify, then that's a pretty weak source.

 

[retro23j]

So for 1960 years, everyone who was not baptized a Christian was going to hell or purgatory. Even still-born or miscarried babies. Then, WAIT, HOLD ON, in the 1960's Vatican II meetings they decided that everyone was safe since JC took a trip down to hell and took their "ignorant" souls up to heaven.

You see how things change? The church can manipulate anything in scripture. The Mormons didn't let black people be priests until the 70's, because apparently God was ready at that time. WHAT?

They decided. They manipulate. Mormons didn't let black people be priests. They weren't ready. Not the doctrine. Them.

One last thing: Honestly, how do we know what really goes on in Heaven? No one has been there and came back. No one has told us about it, and don't say Jesus or God because that's real debatable and potentially exaggerated/mistranslated. If your only proof is the Bible, the same book that Catholic authorities continue to modify, then that's a pretty weak source.


Revelations?
How is the Bible a weak source????

 

[sonunox34]

Originally Posted by Retro23J

So for 1960 years, everyone who was not baptized a Christian was going to hell or purgatory. Even still-born or miscarried babies. Then, WAIT, HOLD ON, in the 1960's Vatican II meetings they decided that everyone was safe since JC took a trip down to hell and took their "ignorant" souls up to heaven.

You see how things change? The church can manipulate anything in scripture. The Mormons didn't let black people be priests until the 70's, because apparently God was ready at that time. WHAT?

They decided. They manipulate. Mormons didn't let black people be priests. They weren't ready. Not the doctrine. Them.
Umm what I just said was

According to the church:
0 AD - 1963 AD: Unbaptized babies went to hell. Fact.
1963 - now: Unbaptized babies were saved by Jesus. Fact.

One last thing: Honestly, how do we know what really goes on in Heaven? No one has been there and came back. No one has told us about it, and don't say Jesus or God because that's real debatable and potentially exaggerated/mistranslated. If your only proof is the Bible, the same book that Catholic authorities continue to modify, then that's a pretty weak source.


Revelations?
How is the Bible a weak source????
Look at all the times it's been translated, look at how long it took the authors to write the gospels down (Mark, the first gospel written,was composed around 70 AD). None of the gospels were written by eye-witnesses, only word of mouth... how are they going to accurately record any of thedetails? After 40 years of telling fables? Look at all the books that didn't make it (http://en.wikipedia.org/w...work#Lost_Biblical_texts ), including gospels. There are too manyquestion marks surrounding this book. I am not trying to bash Catholicism, I followed it for many years and I continue to study at a Catholic university, butthere are too many loopholes for me to respect this ancient text as more than a basic guideline to living a righteous life.

 

[retro23j]

According to the church:
0 AD - 1963 AD: Unbaptized babies went to hell. Fact.
1963 - now: Unbaptized babies were saved by Jesus. Fact.

I saw what you said fam but...how is that fact? They have no way of knowing unless they were given that revelation straight from God and not just their owninterpretation.
Romans 9:15 - For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Only God knows and whoever he gives that knowledge to.

None of the gospels were written by eye-witnesses, only word of mouth... how are they going to accurately record any of the details?
I don't believe God would allow His book to be written any other way.

I'm not bashing anything either, I'm Apostolic and a firm believer in God. While it may be tweaked here and there by man....the doctrine is stillthere. That doesn't change.