cons of Socialism/wealth redistribution

[emmanuelabor]

so I've been listening to the political pundits over the last couple weeks and I keep hearing this talk about Obama being a socialist, or having socialistideologies. About him wanting to redistribute some of the wealth in this country.

if anybody could explain the cons of either of the ideas in plain english, I'd appreciate it. I googled it, but the answers I got were clearly slanted,and didnt really give me any kind of straight answer for the cons.

furthermore, if someone could explain how Obamas ideologies = socialist ideologies, I'd appreciate that too.

and i didnt just look into this today, I've been doing some searching for a lil bit, but nothing is really speaking to me

 

[hueyp in louiev]

Theoretically is discourages/stifles entrepreneurial risk/private investment hence slowing economic growth.

Ideologically it goes against what some consider to be economically optimal free-market rules, inherent in the American ethos.

I personally support socialist democractic theory a la Western Europe.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems inthe economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I amall for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

 

[dmbrhs]

At the very root is the fact it eliminates competition in all aspects of life. In turn that breeds slow growth (or none at all) in every sector of society,from technology, to science, to entertainment.

 

[emmanuelabor]

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

 

[papageorgeo510]

Well the socialist ideologies focuses on the "equality" of the people and everyone would work for the good of the people rather than for theirself-interest. Communist is the high level of socialist, more extreme. One of the ideologies of socialism is the abolition classes of bougeisies andproletarians (rich/owned businesses and poor/working class people). The methods to abolish these two classes it by eliminating properties, profits/competetionin the market, religions, private own properties, ect...that would create division or separations in a society. So pros of socialist: free healthcare,education, etc...

Edit: However, Socailism, Communism, and Capitalism are all the same in my opinion.

 

[mbiii]

this is not a good place to get an unbiased opinion...

 

[weezyfeezy]

A little blurb I picked out of a blog the other day. Say what you want about the National Review or the author, but it does make you think...

"When we have a right to be given stuff that previously we had to work for, then there is no reason - none - to go and work for them. The goody bag hasno bottom, except bankruptcy and ruin.

Isn't the danger here that if you're offered something for nothing…you'll take it?

Only it's not something for nothing. [Socialist notions like] "free" health-care costs us something precious, and no less precious for beinginvisible. Because there's a word for someone who has their food, housing, and care provided for them… for people who owe their existence to someoneelse.

And that word is slaves."

OG Source: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OTg0M2RjYjRlMGU0MTRjNWUxZTkwODQ1NWE3OTc2Yjghttp://article.nationalre...RjNWUxZTkwODQ1NWE3OTc2Yjg=

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? Andwho's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

 

[hueyp in louiev]

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

American's fear change and the political apparatus has invested so much into making socialism seem like the equal of devil worship, that people arelegitametly scared and uneducated on the wide specturm of economic socialist theory.

 

[reigndrop]

Socialism tends to lend it itself to a command economy. In a command economy, everything that is produced is directed by the governemnt. The governmentdoesn't always know what to produce so you might have a lot a say napkins but not enough shampoo. It basically means no economic growth and a massiveshortage of supplies. Compare that too our mixed economy or free market economy and there aren't as many things missing in a mixed/free market economybecause the power of the purchase dictates supply and demand and what gets made and so forth so things seldomly go missing.

 

[mo matik]

Because a lot of people feel that in theory in theory it's great, but in reality it would never work.

Generally speaking, if people were not so greedy, the world would be a better place.

Other ideologies try to deal with greed. Capitalism just assumes it as innate.

Because of capitalism though, greed has been spoon fed to the masses.

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

American's fear change and the political apparatus has invested so much into making socialism seem like the equal of devil worship, that people are legitametly scared and uneducated on the wide specturm of economic socialist theory.

It has nothing to do with fear or being uneducated about the philosophy of it. It has to do with the fact Americans like to live in a society where they candecided for themselves if they want to be a captain of industry or a lazy single mom on welfare.

 

[hueyp in louiev]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

American's fear change and the political apparatus has invested so much into making socialism seem like the equal of devil worship, that people are legitametly scared and uneducated on the wide specturm of economic socialist theory.

It has nothing to do with fear or being uneducated about the philosophy of it. It has to do with the fact Americans like to live in a society where they can decided for themselves if they want to be a captain of industry or a lazy single mom on welfare.

What the hell are you talking about?

What does welfare have to do with socialism?

Thanks for proving my point...

 

[nicefro]

Bad idea in my book. I'm out here at school everyday trying to get a 3.5 and the %##% in the hallway who chilled and smoked bud all day benefits off of mywell doing when we grow up? Absolutely not sir.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? And who's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

Thing is, it is related to you. You are in the same society.

It is crucial to understand that you have a good job and a good salary because someone else has a crappy job and a terrible salary.

It's the understanding that as hard as you may work, the people that are working 2 to 3 jobs trying to make ends meet are working harder.

 

[dublbagn]

besides being the opposite of what makes/made this country great.......

I dont want the government in every portion of my life......on another note, I had the pleasure of speaking to a very old Cuban man (he was a doctor in Cuba),who had left Cuba a very long time ago. He told me a very interesting thought he had, and it went like this...."as I see it, democrat is just a nice wordfor communist, why would I want to live in a place where I (a doctor) make as much as a garbage man".....if this is the case why would anyone ever try toexcel to be something great??? We see it already with social programs, some people live off these programs in turpitude forever, with no wanting for better.Not a society I want to live in.....

LouieV wrote:

---

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

American's fear change and the political apparatus has invested so much into making socialism seem like the equal of devil worship, that people are legitametly scared and uneducated on the wide specturm of economic socialist theory.

It has nothing to do with fear or being uneducated about the philosophy of it. It has to do with the fact Americans like to live in a society where they can decided for themselves if they want to be a captain of industry or a lazy single mom on welfare.

What the hell are you talking about?

What does welfare have to do with socialism?

Thanks for proving my point...

^^^^^^^

if you really look at it socialism is just mass welfare....so the man has a point....

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by HueyP in LouieV

Originally Posted by emmanuelabor

yeah...see thats what I thought. it dosent sound so terrible in theory, so why are some of these cats actin like it would be some kind of dictatorship?

American's fear change and the political apparatus has invested so much into making socialism seem like the equal of devil worship, that people are legitametly scared and uneducated on the wide specturm of economic socialist theory.

It has nothing to do with fear or being uneducated about the philosophy of it. It has to do with the fact Americans like to live in a society where they can decided for themselves if they want to be a captain of industry or a lazy single mom on welfare.

What the hell are you talking about?

What does welfare have to do with socialism?

Thanks for proving my point...

Oh please. You're removing choice from the individual, therefor you take individual drive and competition out of every aspect of life. That iswhat it all boils down to. There's no underlying philosophy that needs to be understood. But apparently you want a society full of laziness andcomplacency.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? And who's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

Why is giving up yur money a punishment. My parents are wealthy and will be the one's giving up money if Obama is elected, as they should. I don'tlnmow anybody who has worked harder to get where he is than my father. Does that mean now that he has earned money he wants to keep it all. No, their arepeople who need it more than you. I like paying taxes personally. They are the price thatwe pay for civilization. And if I have the aility to pay more for itthat soemone else, than I should. It's not like they are robbing you of your momey. This money is going toward schools, hospitals, etc. I know I would notbe where I am today without being raised in a wealthy family. If I was raised in a lower income household, I would not e a t a top 40 college like I am. Ididn't do anything to deserve the education or the parents I got but i benefited from that. Someone who grows up with poor parents with little education isgoing to face a must greater task than I did to get where I am. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[5am6oody72]

It's the understanding that as hard as you may work, the people that are working 2 to 3 jobs trying to make ends meet are working harder.


And for every hard-working person trying to make ends meet, there are plenty more who are poor because they slacked off in school or have no work ethic. How dowe decide who does and doesn't deserve to have the redistributed wealth? Does everybody get it?

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? And who's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

Thing is, it is related to you. You are in the same society.

It is crucial to understand that you have a good job and a good salary because someone else has a crappy job and a terrible salary.

It's the understanding that as hard as you may work, the people that are working 2 to 3 jobs trying to make ends meet are working harder.

Yeah, but if that person working 2 and 3 jobs barely graduated high school and had three kids from three different guys, and I went to college,got a degree and got a well-paying job, why should I be knocked back down to that level? Why even go to college if I can never be more than the single momsupporting three kids? There would be no incentive to ever excel in life because the government has decided everyone is equal. Nobody would even bother withgoing to medical school, because why spend all that time and energy when a McDonald's manager would make just as much money as you?

 

[reigndrop]

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? And who's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

Why is giving up yur money a punishment. My parents are wealthy and will be the one's giving up money if Obama is elected, as they should. I don't lnmow anybody who has worked harder to get where he is than my father. Does that mean now that he has earned money he wants to keep it all. No, their are people who need it more than you. I like paying taxes personally. They are the price thatwe pay for civilization. And if I have the aility to pay more for it that soemone else, than I should. It's not like they are robbing you of your momey. This money is going toward schools, hospitals, etc. I know I would not be where I am today without being raised in a wealthy family. If I was raised in a lower income household, I would not e a t a top 40 college like I am. I didn't do anything to deserve the education or the parents I got but i benefited from that. Someone who grows up with poor parents with little education is going to face a must greater task than I did to get where I am. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

Your dad would not be happy then knowing how his taxes are used. Property taxes go to schools, gas taxes help the transportation infrastructure. Income taxgoes to what? The Treasury, and look what they've been doing lately. I'm a hardcore right wing person but I don't mind paying taxes if they go tothe right cause.

 

[inine5]

the socialist philosophy works well on paper, words like "equality", "fairness", "common", etc... all sound good like goodthings. love each other like a bunch of hippies....

on the other hand, the free market society also works well on paper. having "earned" wealth by working hard. sounds good too. why should we not berewarded for hard work and achievement right?

but the way i see it is this, either way doesn't work as it should cuz in this country, people are either too damn lazy on the one hand, or corrupt andgreedy on the other hand.....

 

[emmanuelabor]

wow.......I actually got some good answers in here. Better than anything I saw on the net.

""When we have a right to be given stuff that previously we had to work for, then there is no reason - none - to go and work for them. The goody baghas no bottom, except bankruptcy and ruin.

Isn't the danger here that if you're offered something for nothing…you'll take it?

Only it's not something for nothing. [Socialist notions like] "free" health-care costs us something precious, and no less precious for beinginvisible. Because there's a word for someone who has their food, housing, and care provided for them… for people who owe their existence to someone else.

And that word is slaves."


all that seems like a REALLY extreme point of view. I mean under those circumstances, I'd get the cons, but that sounds more like something other than thesocialism I've been reading up on. if it were really to that point, I wouldnt have my original question.


so Obama's "taxing the wealthy" is the sole reason he's being called a socialist? or is there more to it than just his tax plan?

another question...is there any kind of ideology that would be a middle ground to capitalism/free market and socialism?

 

[dmbrhs]

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

Originally Posted by dmbrhs

Originally Posted by worldbeefreeg

America out of all the western, industrialized countries has the greatest inequality in wealth distribution. Rich people who could easily solve the problems in the economy/country by giving up a little more of their money do no want to because they feel they are getting the money they earned taken away from them. I am all for wealth redistribution as it gives everybody an equal chance.

So if I'm rich, why should I be punished because of someone else, unrelated to me, who didn't have the drive to achieve what I did? And who's to say they'd be responsible with this redistributed wealth anyway? Why should I have to give up my hard earned money?

Why is giving up yur money a punishment. My parents are wealthy and will be the one's giving up money if Obama is elected, as they should. I don't lnmow anybody who has worked harder to get where he is than my father. Does that mean now that he has earned money he wants to keep it all. No, their are people who need it more than you. I like paying taxes personally. They are the price thatwe pay for civilization. And if I have the aility to pay more for it that soemone else, than I should. It's not like they are robbing you of your momey. This money is going toward schools, hospitals, etc. I know I would not be where I am today without being raised in a wealthy family. If I was raised in a lower income household, I would not e a t a top 40 college like I am. I didn't do anything to deserve the education or the parents I got but i benefited from that. Someone who grows up with poor parents with little education is going to face a must greater task than I did to get where I am. That just doesn't seem fair to me.

Once again, that is a matter of choice. My choice is that I think it's a punishment to have to give money to people who don't work as hardas I do. You may feel differently. That's how society works.

That's great you come from a wealthy family that worked hard. My family worked very hard as a well and was very smart with their money. I went to a goodschool and got a degree. I know people in my classes who came from nothing and did just as well. Why? Because they had a drive and determination that manyothers in their situation didn't possess. The blame can't be placed on them, it's placed on some situation in their history that gave them theirlot in life. It's how you handle your position that defines you. Some use it for inspiration, many use it as an excuse.

So you're essentially advocating the elimination of personal responsibility and desire to succeed because there is no incentive to ever try hard.Fantastic. Sounds like a great society.