Dave Chappelle Netflix Specials

[deusavertat]

Yeah but there shouldn't be anything you could be able to do about that other than complain (obviously not including hate speech and inciting violence).

People are going to have that opinion regardless. Me voicing my disdain for that isn't going to change it. However, being as vocal as those POS at least stops it from being normalized in society.

 

[Master Zik]

Yea I thought so too but the homophobes online are conflating his ignorance about trans people with LGBT culture as a whole. Homophobes are coming out the wood works using him to legitimize their own bigotry.

Was not aware of this since I don't frequent social media and my feed way different.

 

[Mark Antony]

Was not aware of this since I don't frequent social media and my feed way different.

I mean it's apparent even here, why I really stay out of getting too deep in the convo. Don't want to get lumped in with those dudes who are pretending to be purely "free speech" people.

 

[Master Zik]

I mean it's apparent even here, why I really stay out of getting too deep in the convo. Don't want to get lumped in with those dudes who are pretending to be purely "free speech" people.

Some of those guys eventually expose themselves. And I do peep the attempt at blurring the free speech defense on herr at least.

People are going to have that opinion regardless. Me voicing my disdain for that isn't going to change it. However, being as vocal as those POS at least stops it from being normalized in society.

I was coming more from the standpoint of not wanting those ppl to have those opinions. I don't believe in that sort of ideal world everybody is just gonna be of one accord and stop being bigots and stop hating cuz its the right thing to do (that's what Star Trek is for).

I want those ppl to be themselves and voice those opinions so it's out in the open and I/we know who they are.

As far as their speech not being normalized, I agree with that.

 

[jape]

 

[deusavertat]

I mean it's apparent even here, why I really stay out of getting too deep in the convo. Don't want to get lumped in with those dudes who are pretending to be purely "free speech" people.

The whole "free speech" and "anti cancel culture" movement is just bigots crying about why they can't freely be that way like the 40s and 50s without social stigma being attached to it.

 

[oh you mad]

 

[Master Zik]

@ he's got a weapon

These are the ppl y'all.

 

[RustyShackleford]

blco02 really let himself go

 

[RustyShackleford]

I mean it's apparent even here, why I really stay out of getting too deep in the convo. Don't want to get lumped in with those dudes who are pretending to be purely "free speech" people.

I think some people on NT are kinda naive about how much straight-up nonsense would get posted on this board about women and the LGBTQ+ community if the mods said all viewpoints would get equal consideration.

Like I actually hold back posting certain things because I noticed years ago because some people would repurpose something I said to defend some stupid ****

Besides someone going off on me about my reps, or telling me they have hated me for years and I am ruining NT , the thing I hate the most is being told I was brought up in another thread and someone claiming I cosigned their ****.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My favorite example of this is when I said one time that the status quo in family courts hurt fathers and mothers in different ways

Ninja remixed that into me agreeing with him that "da radical feminists are outta control".

But it wasn't exactly like that, and he called me something like the "da liberal pied piper of NT"

 

[sooperhooper]

 

[thehealthinspector]

Is it possible to understand (not necessarily agree) the principle of what Dave is saying, without thinking he and his content is transphobic or homophobic, etc.?

People are legit scared to talk about his stand-up at work now.

That kind of applies to anything in a lot of work places

Employees have the "right" to find anything offensive/uncomfortable

Crowd looks exactly like I thought it would

"we suffer like YOU suffer"

 

[atxhitter03]

I think this pretty much sums up everything dave was sayin in his special.
empathy…punching down.

 

[deusavertat]

I think some people on NT are kinda naive about how much straight-up nonsense would get posted on this board about women and the LGBTQ+ community if the mods said all viewpoints would get equal consideration.

Yea this place would look like stormfront if the mods didn't step in. A lot of posts on NT reek of insecurity driven toxic masculinity.

 

[wr]

 

[masagipatron]

That’s Majin Buu after the separation

 

[wr]

I was thinking more along the lines of Krang

 

[masagipatron]

That implies a brain

 

[TURBO UNO]

@ “He’s holding a WEAPONNNNNN”

 

[WASHED KING]

Is it possible to understand (not necessarily agree) the principle of what Dave is saying, without thinking he and his content is transphobic or homophobic, etc.?

People are legit scared to talk about his stand-up at work now.

I mean I can't really think of a situation at work where it would be appropriate to talk about it. Somethings I just leave out of the workplace.

EDIT: Unless you work at Netflix.

 

[Magic33]

I think Dave has some guilt in the suicide, and he wants either to consciously or subconsciously the trans community, cancel culture and social media to have some guilt or at least some awareness of what what they did and continue to do.

There was some anger in his words, like I gave money, what did you do? That was cringe worthy.

It's easy to say that if Dave doesn't say certain things, she doesn't have to defend him and is still alive, but there's a flip side and obviously there's some bigger issues she was dealing with.

But instead of having some introspection and provoking thought, everyone got on the defense and attack and are having a different conversation.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

People that pushed the movement against rap music and GTA were looking for bans, but they settled advisory warnings. If you want to draw a parallel there, on advisory warning, then fine. But I think you have to remove too much nuance and context once you go beyond this. Those cultural conservatives of the 80s and 90s were explicitly asking for much more than the Netflix employees IMO.

Also it is not that they are nobler, it is the fact one group acted in good faith the other in bad. So I how I will engage with their complaints is different. Your mother can be a misguided true believer, but she acted in good faith, but I am sure she wasn't engaging in activist activity constantly in the public trying to get stuff censored. I think if you are gonna compare activist to activist, you can't just throw in someone like your mom in there.

My girl point that I agree with and expanded on is that Dave was aware that there are people with hostilities toward trans people that might feel validated by his content. So in his act he tried at points, to push back against it. So if he was aware of his, and tried to protect against this, it is fair game to criticism him if his act fell short of doing so generally. That he if wanted to admonish people against hostility transgender people, then he should know some other stuff he said kinda undermined that sentiment

That is it. Dave wasn't just up there telling jokes, he was also giving social commentary and litigating his beef with his critics too. Dude spent a good chunk of the special on this. I just don't think I can write it off as just jokes. Dave wanted to give insight into a subject but wanted people to know he felt he wishes transgender people well, but his takes and crude jokes undermine the claims that he wish them well. This it is fair to point that out.

It probably wasn't clear, the criticism is not people happen to feel validated by it, but Dave chose to throw out things those people to grab onto, even though he explicitly claimed he is on the other side of that issue. Dave isn't dumb.

It is not just dumb people either, it is people with preexisting hostility that wanted to grab onto something to validate their opinions. I mean, look at the **** that pops up on NT over the years regarding transgender people. It is not just dumbasses that hold dumb views. In the end, it is not the dumbest people in society we have to worry about.

For me I just feel like the context of comedy is different.

We all know what we sign up for, a comedian goes on stage and explores the bounds of language to generate laughter
and sometimes produce interesting insights into the human condition.

so I give comedy a much wider birth when it comes to language because pushing the limits is inherit to the genre.
Louis CK had a whole bit bout the N-word where he used the word.

Do I love that bit? no. did that make some white kid somewhere on the justify his use of the n-word?, maybe.
I just don't think comedy should never use offensive language, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize it if it does.

-I think the discussions, arguments, and disagreements, about how public discourse becomes less hostile towards marginalized groups are always gonna happen. I don't bemoan them like you do. Like in the late 90s and early 200s there were still debates of whether white people should be allowed to say the n-word in comedy routines and if it should be allowed to use the word "gay" to describe something in a negative light. If the f-word was acceptable. Hell during that time there were other derogatory names transgender people were often referred to. It was said that liberal elites were policing language too strictly for them too. Hell, stuff like black face is another example. Black people elite or working-class by themselves had little power to change this. It wasn't until so-called liberal elites join in chastizing certain behavior we saw movement against them. Like I'm supposed to bemoan progressive elites denying society some quality black face comedy?

Like I said I think it's important to debate where we draw the line to balance fairness and inclusion vs liberty and free expressions.
but my problem is people escalating claims of harm to shut down that debate

I think most people can roll with, don't use slurs. (which dave does not do in The Closer. )

Dude this is 2021. The internet exists. Even if Netflix were to take this down, there are places people could download this joint from and those places can be found by searching Reddit for a couple of minutes

Plus all is other comedy specials will still be there

Plus Dave still tours

Hell Louis CK's trifling *** is still doing shows.

It is funny that this is involving Dave. Because Dave was cool with the Chapelle Show being taken off platforms because he was upset that Viacom would not restructure the contract they had with him so he could get paid more off of it. When Dave's feelings were hurt, and missing some Ms, his fans seemed cool with losing access to a large collection of his comedy

Dave content is not gonna be removed from public consumption. I think this is a hyperbolic way to frame the prospect of Netflix talking down the Closer

it won't happen, yes, but it's pretty clearly what they want.
and even if they aren't capable of achieving that end goal I think the impulse is bad.

and every other person who creates art for public consumption who is not as big as dave or Louis was (aka 99% of artists)
needs to live in terror of taking any risks with their art. again
maybe im biased, i love art, I work in media, So I think it's very very bad,

Dude there is a difference between saying Dave comedy directly leads to trans women being killed (that his comedy is the explanatory variable), like A happens, then you get B. Your post drew an arrow from one to the other. And someone saying it contributes to a hostility in society that results in bad outcomes for trans people.

We know there are multiple factors why we see so much gun violence in urban areas. We know that some of these factors are created and fuled by other things. Saying the Fed's tight monetary policy directly leads to more murders in urban areas sounds kinda wild, but it is different than saying tight monetary policy reinforces economic inequality because it undermines the bargaining power of workers, which lowers wages, and fuels inequality, and the dynamics of inequality keep people confined to impoverished inner cities areas and that environment results in more violence.

You call it bank shots, it seems like people are just thinking in systems. You find it unconvincing, cool that you are prerogative but I just don't think the direct causal argument what everyone is arguing

And if you have such an issue with this type of thinking then think about how you think progressive speech codes materially hurt marginalized groups. Because of how you described it to me, you didn't make a direct causal relationship. You had a bunch of steps in between. Or as you like to refer to them, bank shots

strong claims require stronger evidence, the connection between unemployment and murder rates has a lot more evidence behind it than
The Closer's connection to violence against trans people.

and I don't think constantly harping on it is a reasonable way to discuss these matters.
it's raising the temperature and making impossible to convince anyone of anything.

like if you were having an argument with an inflation hawk economist, would you then tell him, "you're views are going to lead to murdered black people?"
even if that's true in some technical sense is that a reasonable way to have a discussion?
you think there is any chance you're gunna convince that dude of anything, once you escalate the stakes that high?
it's just gunna shut down debate.

I think the relationship is pretty direct, the example I posted previously comes to mind.

Progressive Toronto city counselors admonishing people for not using the term "unhoused"
...and then voting against allowing rooming houses in the city.

when you make things about adhering to speech codes, it makes really easy for hucksters and liars to hack your political movement.
Krysten Sinema former green party leftist, now strong opponent of higher taxes for rich people seems to have run this jig.

 

[moonman818]

I mean I can't really think of a situation at work where it would be appropriate to talk about it. Somethings I just leave out of the workplace.

EDIT: Unless you work at Netflix.

You don't talk to your coworkers about current events or things you watch on TV?

 

[WASHED KING]

You don't talk to your coworkers about current events or things you watch on TV?

Technically my coworkers are teenagers so I have to tread carefully over controversial topics. Most of the other teachers are old enough to be my parents so nah not really.