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Everything I’ve seen with joker looks good. PLEASE LAWD don’t suck
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JOKER Spoilers - Everything We Learned In The Latest Issue Of Empire About DC's Weirdest Movie Yet
It's A Whole NEW Origin Story
It's been clear for a while now that Joker is very much doing its own thing and Phillips was quick to point out that while he's a fan of the source material, he's intent on delivering something brand new.
"I just love the energy that a disruptor brings," he says when asked what appeals to him about The Joker. "So I thought, 'A Joker origin story would be cool; nobody's done that.' I read comics as a kid, I knew enough about Frank Miller and the Dark Knight series, and The Killing Joke. I also knew that he didn't really have an origin story, so I thought, 'Oh Jesus, are we able to do that, is it legal?"
Warner Bros. clearly thought so by who exactly is "Arthur Fleck"? Continue reading to find out...
Who Is Arthur Fleck?
Apparently, Fleck is someone who has been "in the system for a long time" according to Phillips due to an unspecified medical condition. Producer Emma Tillinger Koskoff says that, "He's a profoundly troubled man, and for Joaquin I'm sure it wasn't easy, living in that space." However, she notes that, "What he delivers in this movie is breathtaking."
As for why the movie's working title is "Romeo," Phillips explains that it boils down to Arthur's personality. "Because I find him to be super romantic, and because he has a certain elegance to him. We're treating a guy who's ultimately a villain, or supervillain, in comic book terms, like a real person you love. We hope you're on his side, until you can't be on his side any longer."
"When the film begins, we hope you feel empathy for this little flower growing on a cracked sidewalk. At what point are you gonna water it and give it light, or just ignore it? How long can you love that flower for?"
Why Robert De Niro Joined The Cast
One of the most surprising additions to the movie's cast is Robert De Niro, someone most of us never expected to see in a comic book movie. So, why did he board the DC Comics adaptation?
"Bob really loved the script," Phillips reveals when asked that. "I met with him and said, 'I'd be lying to you if I said we weren't influenced by a lot of your movies.' I talked with him about Taxi Driver, and about The King of Comedy, which is one of my favourite movies of all time."
Saying it would be "really fun and f*cked up" to have him play a talk show host, the filmmaker adds that when it comes to what makes the actor so great, "It's the details, these little gestures you may not even notice that are part of what makes his characters so amazing and vivid."
Joaquin Phoenix's Unique Relationship With Todd Phillips
Here's where things get a little weird.
Asked about his relationship with director Todd Phillips, Phoenix says that, "My connection with Todd and what we were uncovering in this movie is something really special for me. I haven't figured out yet how to let go of my personal feelings. Because it feels like talking about a romantic relationship with somebody. An intimate relationship. We were just together all the time."
"We went home and would text each other for hours and then finally go, 'We gotta just talk,' and we'd call each other and talk for two hours about the day, and the scenes coming up," the actor continues. "We were just immersed in it. It's the best way to work."
That's fair enough and, for what it's worth, Phillips feels the same way and told the publication this while looking at a shot of Phoenix's Joker smoking a cigarette. "I can't get enough of him. I've seen this movie 4000 times and I can just stare at that face. I just wanna watch him forever."
Why Todd Phillips Signed Up To Direct
Todd Phillips doesn't feel like the most natural of fits for a project like this, so what led to him pitching the idea to Warner Bros.? Well, he wanted to make a character study and knew that "getting people out to see them on a large scale is really difficult because the movie business is so comic book orientated."
As a result, he realised that using that material as a basis could help him make the movie he wanted, while still offering the studio something they would want to release. "And then I thought, 'You could do a character study if you do it about a comic book character.' And I always liked Joker, because I like mayhem."
Joker Doesn't Adhere To The Source Material
Alas, fans expecting a comic accurate take on The Joker's origin story will be disappointed. "We didn't follow anything from the comic books," Phillips says, "which people are gonna be mad about. We just wrote our own version of where a guy like Joker might come from. That's what was interesting to me. We're not even doing Joker, but the story of becoming Joker. It's about this man."
It's Also Set In Its Own World
With that in mind, it won't surprise you to learn that Joker won't be tied to the larger DCEU.
While it will feature familiar elements like Gotham City, the 1981 setting was a deliberate move to separate it from what's come before. " didn't want it to take place in the world of Zack [Snyder] and [Christopher] Nolan or any of those guys," Phillips says. "We just want it to be its own thing."
Getting Joaquin Phoenix To Say Yes
"I did read comics growing up, I collected them when I was 13," Phoenix admits, referencing Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum as a graphic novel that stands out to him today. "I called my agent and said, 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool to do a movie like that but low budget, kind of a character study? But I didn't get very far." Well, until Joker came along but it still wasn't an easy sell for Phillips.
Describing it as "the most un-studio studio movie that's been made in a really long time," the filmmaker says that "a huge problem for [Phoenix] is that it was called f*ckin' Joker. And it was a DC thing. Just getting it to him was a thing, and convincing him to read it was a thing."
As for why the actor did ultimately say yes to the project, he explained: "I just get a feeling. It that it has inspired something in me, and I wanna know more, I wanna get in it more."
No Green Screen
Going back to that setting, Phillips says that, "In the most reductive way it's the New York of 1981 that I remember. It's a broken down city, and the people in it are broken down."
We've seen a lot of set photos, of course, but it was important for the director to film in those real-life settings rather than in a studio. "The energy you get from an actor is different on 179th Street and Jerome Avenue in the Bronx than if we did that green screen, which, by the way, I didn't even know how to do **** like that. There's not one green screen in this movie."
It's Not An Action Movie
No green screen doesn't mean no action but...well, there won't be any! Phillips says we'll get "A very clear-cut interpretation of Joker's origin story" but adds that "This is not an action movie, This is a character study about a guy on the brink."
Phoenix agrees and cautions that fans shouldn' expect to see too much of a typical superhero movie influence here. "It's its own fictional story. Of course there are such fans of the comics, so every once in a while that thought process will creep in. But you just have to say, 'We're not doing that, we're doing this.'"
Empire was then shown a scene of Phoenix dancing around the set and says that, "I don't know how the Fast & Furious crowd are gonna take that! Interpretive dance. It'll be interesting to see how people react to this film. It's bonkers, I'll tell you that much."
It Might Make Fans Happy...According To Bradley Cooper
So, things aren't sounding good for comic book fans but producer Bradley Cooper (Guardians of the Galaxy) seemingly wants to assure them that there's nothing to be worried about...mostly.
"The movie's utterly real and believable but as you're watching it, you're aware of the mythology of what you're watching, and that's a very hard thing to pull off," the actor says. "Todd was able to walk the line of both things throughout the entire film. At the very end you're very pleased with where you end up." That sounds promising but we'll have to wait and see how things pan out.
Joaquin Phoenix Really Loves The Movie
"The process was one of the most gratifying of my career," the actor concludes making it clear that Joker is a project he's definitely proud of. "I could never have imagined anything this cool."
Given how picky he is, that sounds good but time will tell whether comic book fans embrace it...
Continue reading below for the rumoured Joker plot breakdown - MAJOR SPOILERS follow!
Splash Report goes so far as to say that, "I am guaranteeing an Oscar nomination for Joaquin Phoenix. His Arthur Fleck is incredible. For a while, I thought his Johnny Cash would be his signature performance. I think we’ll be proven wrong in 5 months."
They add that, "Robert De Niro has a very juicy role, and he could potentially be in the conversation come award season." Whether fans will embrace the film in the same way is hard to say, especially as it takes so many liberties with the source material based on this intel.
It's been clear for a while now that Joker is very much doing its own thing and Phillips was quick to point out that while he's a fan of the source material, he's intent on delivering something brand new.
"I just love the energy that a disruptor brings," he says when asked what appeals to him about The Joker. "So I thought, 'A Joker origin story would be cool; nobody's done that.' I read comics as a kid, I knew enough about Frank Miller and the Dark Knight series, and The Killing Joke. I also knew that he didn't really have an origin story, so I thought, 'Oh Jesus, are we able to do that, is it legal?"
Warner Bros. clearly thought so by who exactly is "Arthur Fleck"? Continue reading to find out...
Who Is Arthur Fleck?
Apparently, Fleck is someone who has been "in the system for a long time" according to Phillips due to an unspecified medical condition. Producer Emma Tillinger Koskoff says that, "He's a profoundly troubled man, and for Joaquin I'm sure it wasn't easy, living in that space." However, she notes that, "What he delivers in this movie is breathtaking."
As for why the movie's working title is "Romeo," Phillips explains that it boils down to Arthur's personality. "Because I find him to be super romantic, and because he has a certain elegance to him. We're treating a guy who's ultimately a villain, or supervillain, in comic book terms, like a real person you love. We hope you're on his side, until you can't be on his side any longer."
"When the film begins, we hope you feel empathy for this little flower growing on a cracked sidewalk. At what point are you gonna water it and give it light, or just ignore it? How long can you love that flower for?"
Why Robert De Niro Joined The Cast
One of the most surprising additions to the movie's cast is Robert De Niro, someone most of us never expected to see in a comic book movie. So, why did he board the DC Comics adaptation?
"Bob really loved the script," Phillips reveals when asked that. "I met with him and said, 'I'd be lying to you if I said we weren't influenced by a lot of your movies.' I talked with him about Taxi Driver, and about The King of Comedy, which is one of my favourite movies of all time."
Saying it would be "really fun and f*cked up" to have him play a talk show host, the filmmaker adds that when it comes to what makes the actor so great, "It's the details, these little gestures you may not even notice that are part of what makes his characters so amazing and vivid."
Joaquin Phoenix's Unique Relationship With Todd Phillips
Here's where things get a little weird.
Asked about his relationship with director Todd Phillips, Phoenix says that, "My connection with Todd and what we were uncovering in this movie is something really special for me. I haven't figured out yet how to let go of my personal feelings. Because it feels like talking about a romantic relationship with somebody. An intimate relationship. We were just together all the time."
"We went home and would text each other for hours and then finally go, 'We gotta just talk,' and we'd call each other and talk for two hours about the day, and the scenes coming up," the actor continues. "We were just immersed in it. It's the best way to work."
That's fair enough and, for what it's worth, Phillips feels the same way and told the publication this while looking at a shot of Phoenix's Joker smoking a cigarette. "I can't get enough of him. I've seen this movie 4000 times and I can just stare at that face. I just wanna watch him forever."
Why Todd Phillips Signed Up To Direct
Todd Phillips doesn't feel like the most natural of fits for a project like this, so what led to him pitching the idea to Warner Bros.? Well, he wanted to make a character study and knew that "getting people out to see them on a large scale is really difficult because the movie business is so comic book orientated."
As a result, he realised that using that material as a basis could help him make the movie he wanted, while still offering the studio something they would want to release. "And then I thought, 'You could do a character study if you do it about a comic book character.' And I always liked Joker, because I like mayhem."
Joker Doesn't Adhere To The Source Material
Alas, fans expecting a comic accurate take on The Joker's origin story will be disappointed. "We didn't follow anything from the comic books," Phillips says, "which people are gonna be mad about. We just wrote our own version of where a guy like Joker might come from. That's what was interesting to me. We're not even doing Joker, but the story of becoming Joker. It's about this man."
It's Also Set In Its Own World
With that in mind, it won't surprise you to learn that Joker won't be tied to the larger DCEU.
While it will feature familiar elements like Gotham City, the 1981 setting was a deliberate move to separate it from what's come before. " didn't want it to take place in the world of Zack [Snyder] and [Christopher] Nolan or any of those guys," Phillips says. "We just want it to be its own thing."
Getting Joaquin Phoenix To Say Yes
"I did read comics growing up, I collected them when I was 13," Phoenix admits, referencing Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum as a graphic novel that stands out to him today. "I called my agent and said, 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool to do a movie like that but low budget, kind of a character study? But I didn't get very far." Well, until Joker came along but it still wasn't an easy sell for Phillips.
Describing it as "the most un-studio studio movie that's been made in a really long time," the filmmaker says that "a huge problem for [Phoenix] is that it was called f*ckin' Joker. And it was a DC thing. Just getting it to him was a thing, and convincing him to read it was a thing."
As for why the actor did ultimately say yes to the project, he explained: "I just get a feeling. It that it has inspired something in me, and I wanna know more, I wanna get in it more."
No Green Screen
Going back to that setting, Phillips says that, "In the most reductive way it's the New York of 1981 that I remember. It's a broken down city, and the people in it are broken down."
We've seen a lot of set photos, of course, but it was important for the director to film in those real-life settings rather than in a studio. "The energy you get from an actor is different on 179th Street and Jerome Avenue in the Bronx than if we did that green screen, which, by the way, I didn't even know how to do **** like that. There's not one green screen in this movie."
It's Not An Action Movie
No green screen doesn't mean no action but...well, there won't be any! Phillips says we'll get "A very clear-cut interpretation of Joker's origin story" but adds that "This is not an action movie, This is a character study about a guy on the brink."
Phoenix agrees and cautions that fans shouldn' expect to see too much of a typical superhero movie influence here. "It's its own fictional story. Of course there are such fans of the comics, so every once in a while that thought process will creep in. But you just have to say, 'We're not doing that, we're doing this.'"
Empire was then shown a scene of Phoenix dancing around the set and says that, "I don't know how the Fast & Furious crowd are gonna take that! Interpretive dance. It'll be interesting to see how people react to this film. It's bonkers, I'll tell you that much."
It Might Make Fans Happy...According To Bradley Cooper
So, things aren't sounding good for comic book fans but producer Bradley Cooper (Guardians of the Galaxy) seemingly wants to assure them that there's nothing to be worried about...mostly.
"The movie's utterly real and believable but as you're watching it, you're aware of the mythology of what you're watching, and that's a very hard thing to pull off," the actor says. "Todd was able to walk the line of both things throughout the entire film. At the very end you're very pleased with where you end up." That sounds promising but we'll have to wait and see how things pan out.
Joaquin Phoenix Really Loves The Movie
"The process was one of the most gratifying of my career," the actor concludes making it clear that Joker is a project he's definitely proud of. "I could never have imagined anything this cool."
Given how picky he is, that sounds good but time will tell whether comic book fans embrace it...
Continue reading below for the rumoured Joker plot breakdown - MAJOR SPOILERS follow!
1981
It's said that Joker takes place in Gotham City in 1981, and the iconic DC Comics location is at its lowest point with a crime wave and garbage strike leaving it dirtier and more dangerous than ever.
Arthur Fleck is just a nobody who works as a clown for a talent booking agency and he has a social worker keeping a close eye on him because he has some serious mental health issues. Those include an uncontrollable habit of laughing whenever he's nervous, something which doesn't help with his desire to become a stand-up comic.
He's also a caretaker for his mother, a former housekeeper for the Wayne family...
Thomas Wayne's Mission
As expected, Thomas Wayne is running to become the new Mayor of Gotham City, and he promises to clean up the city (both literally and figuratively). He's a good man but has been ignoring his former employee, as Fleck's mother has spent months trying to contact him to no avail.
She's as deranged as her son, though, so it's hardly a surprise that he's not reading her correspondence.
Arthur's Downfall
Fleck ends up losing his job and that appears to be the final nail in the coffin for his fractured psyche. After being mocked on the subway, he violently kills three Wall Street guys who are also harassing a young woman and these murders inspire a "Resist" movement against Gotham's wealthy elite.
With Thomas Wayne viewed as the "voice of the rich," the poor start turning on him. While this is happening, Arthur tries his hand at stand-up during an open mic night at a local comedy club. His set completely bombs, and footage of his performance ends up being sent to Live With Murray Franklin. The TV show host, played by Robert De Niro, wastes no time in ridiculing poor Arthur.
The Big Reveal
The cops are investigating Arthur for his involvement in those murder,s but he's busy reading one of his deranged mother's letters to Thomas Wayne and stumbles across a pretty major revelation.
She claims that Arthur is the illegitimate son of Thomas Wayne and that makes Joker the half-brother of Bruce Wayne, a.k.a. Batman, a twist which has been rumoured ever since last year.
That's it from Splash Report but we've done some digging and found several other leaks online which line up with this one. However, major spoilers (including how Joker ends) now follow...
...Or Not!
Arthur later learns that while his mother was obsessed with Thomas, they never actually slept together and he's not his son after all. However, she was aware that her boyfriend (and presumably his real father) was sexually abusing Arthur when he was a young child, so he heads to Arkham Asylum and kills her.
At this point, he's invited on to Live With Murray Franklin but fully embraces his new persona as The Joker while all of this is happening, and he murders several people who have wronged him.
Zazie Beetz's character isn't among them, despite the fact that his feelings for her were extremely one-sided and past leaks have claimed that he kills her after being rejected earlier in the movie.
Bang
The Joker appears on that talk show but shoots Franklin in the head on air and proceeds to deliver a speech that riles up Gotham City's citizens and encourages them to rise up against the wealthy.
A riot breaks out, and it's during this that Thomas and Martha Wayne end up being gunned down (thereby providing a very different twist on the Clown Prince of Crime's origin story). The police chase Arthur down and finally catch and arrest him after he's hit by a passing taxi. The movie then ends with him in Arkham Asylum, and he's so out of his mind by this point, he dances around his cell.
Apparently, that's a recurring theme in the movie and while this scene is set to Frank Sinatra's "That's Life," the sequence of him dancing down those steps is to Elton John's "Benny And The Jets."
Not That Much Joker
Other details revealed include the fact that Joker is a hard R and only features Fleck in costume for around the last 30 minutes.
It's said that Joker takes place in Gotham City in 1981, and the iconic DC Comics location is at its lowest point with a crime wave and garbage strike leaving it dirtier and more dangerous than ever.
Arthur Fleck is just a nobody who works as a clown for a talent booking agency and he has a social worker keeping a close eye on him because he has some serious mental health issues. Those include an uncontrollable habit of laughing whenever he's nervous, something which doesn't help with his desire to become a stand-up comic.
He's also a caretaker for his mother, a former housekeeper for the Wayne family...
Thomas Wayne's Mission
As expected, Thomas Wayne is running to become the new Mayor of Gotham City, and he promises to clean up the city (both literally and figuratively). He's a good man but has been ignoring his former employee, as Fleck's mother has spent months trying to contact him to no avail.
She's as deranged as her son, though, so it's hardly a surprise that he's not reading her correspondence.
Arthur's Downfall
Fleck ends up losing his job and that appears to be the final nail in the coffin for his fractured psyche. After being mocked on the subway, he violently kills three Wall Street guys who are also harassing a young woman and these murders inspire a "Resist" movement against Gotham's wealthy elite.
With Thomas Wayne viewed as the "voice of the rich," the poor start turning on him. While this is happening, Arthur tries his hand at stand-up during an open mic night at a local comedy club. His set completely bombs, and footage of his performance ends up being sent to Live With Murray Franklin. The TV show host, played by Robert De Niro, wastes no time in ridiculing poor Arthur.
The Big Reveal
The cops are investigating Arthur for his involvement in those murder,s but he's busy reading one of his deranged mother's letters to Thomas Wayne and stumbles across a pretty major revelation.
She claims that Arthur is the illegitimate son of Thomas Wayne and that makes Joker the half-brother of Bruce Wayne, a.k.a. Batman, a twist which has been rumoured ever since last year.
That's it from Splash Report but we've done some digging and found several other leaks online which line up with this one. However, major spoilers (including how Joker ends) now follow...
...Or Not!
Arthur later learns that while his mother was obsessed with Thomas, they never actually slept together and he's not his son after all. However, she was aware that her boyfriend (and presumably his real father) was sexually abusing Arthur when he was a young child, so he heads to Arkham Asylum and kills her.
At this point, he's invited on to Live With Murray Franklin but fully embraces his new persona as The Joker while all of this is happening, and he murders several people who have wronged him.
Zazie Beetz's character isn't among them, despite the fact that his feelings for her were extremely one-sided and past leaks have claimed that he kills her after being rejected earlier in the movie.
Bang
The Joker appears on that talk show but shoots Franklin in the head on air and proceeds to deliver a speech that riles up Gotham City's citizens and encourages them to rise up against the wealthy.
A riot breaks out, and it's during this that Thomas and Martha Wayne end up being gunned down (thereby providing a very different twist on the Clown Prince of Crime's origin story). The police chase Arthur down and finally catch and arrest him after he's hit by a passing taxi. The movie then ends with him in Arkham Asylum, and he's so out of his mind by this point, he dances around his cell.
Apparently, that's a recurring theme in the movie and while this scene is set to Frank Sinatra's "That's Life," the sequence of him dancing down those steps is to Elton John's "Benny And The Jets."
Not That Much Joker
Other details revealed include the fact that Joker is a hard R and only features Fleck in costume for around the last 30 minutes.
They add that, "Robert De Niro has a very juicy role, and he could potentially be in the conversation come award season." Whether fans will embrace the film in the same way is hard to say, especially as it takes so many liberties with the source material based on this intel.
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I don't know if this was already posted but I thought it was a cool little video from Shazam's director.
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Alan Tudyk could be a phenomenal joker.
Just think about it.
Just think about it.
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Is Gunn really copying what was done in the first one with Willshot having a daughter since Will isnt gonna be in this?
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Wait I’m lost
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My favorite DCEU film. If you preordered the 4K Steelbook, you’re supposed to get a code for a 30 day free trial of DC Universe. These jabronis didn’t send me a code so i called them up. I should be getting it shortly. I want to check out Titans and Doom Patrol.
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dceu? thats still a thing?
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Lol same. So fans liked it and the studio didn’t? I don’t know what’s worse because we talking “bvs was good!” Fans? If so I’ll side with the studio
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It's out there...
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The joke that keeps on coming back
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some people got too much time and money on their hands
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I’m sure it’s snyder paying for all that
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Shazam is technically a DCEU film
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outside of the joker film, i think any could still be in the dceu
gunns suicide squad was suppose to be a complete reboot and non-dceu but then he's bringing a bunch of people back to reprise their roles
but there are definitely less emphasis on a connected universe
gunns suicide squad was suppose to be a complete reboot and non-dceu but then he's bringing a bunch of people back to reprise their roles
but there are definitely less emphasis on a connected universe
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They’re using too many familiar faces to claim otherwise at this point. The alternative is to begin every movie with “THIS IS NOT PART OF BVS OR JL!”
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Technically ? Isn’t it A Dceu confirmed film because of all the references and supe at the end
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Could've at least been the real supes. Mustache-gate or not.
That would've been a better capper.
I see Cavill turning coat, just y'all watch.
That would've been a better capper.
I see Cavill turning coat, just y'all watch.
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Marvel Studios should cast Cavill as Gladiator.
