DC Studios THREAD - GunnVerse Begins - The Penguin out 9/19 then every Sunday on MAX

[tay1]

Yeah well I want to f' Scarlett Johanson, we can't have everything we want.

I'm not arguing that a sequel isn't a better option, again you are ignoring the fact that this is a Superman sequel. If you feel the first one was "meh", the next sequel Bats or no Bats, cameo or no cameo will be made by the same person so if you thought that the first one was "meh" then why would you want another one that'll likely be "meh"? That's like you hating Daredevil and asking for another one with the same cast, writers, directors, etc...


The argument is that your complaint is the few seconds of cameo and that results in this film not being a sequel for Supes anymore and that it is just trying to make Avenger money. You've said this in all your post like it presents something new and changes anything in the argument.




You guys are also forgetting that Snyder admitted Supes will face consequences and that consequence is likely Batman. But instead all you see is "oh no another casting rumor, oh no they making this JL film cuz there's a hero that'll show up for 3 seconds in the film!"

Scarlett is a married woman. You shouldn't want to do things like that good sir.

People learn from their mistakes and improve. Nolan improved with TDK, so Snyder can improve.


Why does that consequence have to be batman? Why can't it just be Luthor and another villain we haven't seen?

 

[jadaqwest]

Cyborg really? no john stewart(black green lantern) first? i really wonder how this will come together so fast most people dont follow JL roster like they do Avengers or XMen.... i like snyder as a director i guess if nothing else it will be visually stunning

 

[rfx45]

People learn from their mistakes and improve. Nolan improved with TDK, so Snyder can improve.


Why does that consequence have to be batman? Why can't it just be Luthor and another villain we haven't seen?

Umm Begins was already good. TDK was great and TDKR was a step down. So by your analogy, it could get worse. I mean should we really get into films where the sequel simply got worse than the original? IM1 to IM2 to IM3?


And why does it have to be Batman? Because they want to and it's awesome!

Why can't it be Batman and Luthor? Why can't Superman develop further with Bats in the film?

 

[tay1]

Umm Begins was already good. TDK was great and TDKR was a step down. So by your analogy, it could get worse. I mean should we really get into films where the sequel simply got worse than the original? IM1 to IM2 to IM3?


And why does it have to be Batman? Because they want to and it's awesome!

Why can't it be Batman and Luthor? Why can't Superman develop further with Bats in the film?

Well you said why would I want to see another meh movie. It's not guaranteed another solo MOS sequel would've been meh. 

 

[rfx45]

Cyborg really? no john stewart(black green lantern) first? i really wonder how this will come together so fast most people dont follow JL roster like they do Avengers or XMen.... i like snyder as a director i guess if nothing else it will be visually stunning

Ummm, not all casting have been announced.

And Reynolds GL really soured peoples taste to Green Lanterns no matter who it is.



I don't know about that, I would argue JL members made up of the most popular heroes from the DC Universe are more known that Avengers and XMen. I mean Superman, Batman, WW, Flash, GL and Aquaman are all known.

 

[rfx45]

Umm Begins was already good. TDK was great and TDKR was a step down. So by your analogy, it could get worse. I mean should we really get into films where the sequel simply got worse than the original? IM1 to IM2 to IM3?



And why does it have to be Batman? Because they want to and it's awesome!


Why can't it be Batman and Luthor? Why can't Superman develop further with Bats in the film?

Well you said why would I want to see another meh movie. It's not guaranteed another solo MOS sequel would've been meh. 

And Im just saying it isn't guaranteed to be better either but point is if you barely like the first film and the sequel has the same recipe (no additions) then why would your expectations be better? That just sets you up for disappointment.

Why can't you just enjoy this film as much as you'd enjoy if Bats weren't in it? You don't like the Batman character? Or you just that shallow that adding Batman automatically ruins the film for you before you even see it?

 

[jadaqwest]

Ummm, not all casting have been announced.

And Reynolds GL really soured peoples taste to Green Lanterns no matter who it is.



I don't know about that, I would argue JL members made up of the most popular heroes from the DC Universe are more known that Avengers and XMen. I mean Superman, Batman, WW, Flash, GL and Aquaman are all known

good point but superman batman ok....flash,ww,gl and and def aquaman wont even make good tv shows who really wants to see them in 2hour solo movies for one the rogues galleries are not that interesting or well known cheetah,capt cold,zoom,sinestro or black manta none of these characters are interesting...build over next 6 years then go from there and so far the casting is less than stellar

 

[tay1]

And Im just saying it isn't guaranteed to be better either but point is if you barely like the first film and the sequel has the same recipe (no additions) then why would your expectations be better?

Why can't you just enjoy this film as much as you'd enjoy if Bats weren't in it? You don't like the Batman character? Or you just that shallow that adding Batman automatically ruins the film for you before you even see it?

The addition would be a new story and and possibly a new villain I have never seen on screen. Most of these X-Men films have been absolute garbage, doesn't stop me from hoping that the next one is good.

Because I can't imagine this film not placing a heavy amount of time focusing on Batman. The title of this film is going to implicate that it's a Batman and Superman movie so I can't expect them to not have him featured heavily. I want to see a World's Finest movie. I think everyone would. But not now.

 

[rfx45]

Not really arguing if their solo films will work, just that all of those guys are well known. Much more popular than IM, Thor and Cap before Marvel made movies for them.


And to be honest, with the right script and director, all those guys could be good origin films. And you include Sinestro as a not interesting villain? Black Manta? Really? Prof Zoom, Grodd, T.O. Morrow, Circe, Ocean Master, Kordax, etc... Those are all good villains. They aren't going to be Loki or Joker (well Sinestro can actually be on that level) but they'll make good villains. Crime Syndicate?

The addition would be a new story and and a new villain I have never seen on screen. Most of these X-Men films have been absolute garbage, doesn't stop me from hoping that the next one is good.

Because I can't imagine this film not placing a heavy amount of time focusing on Batman. The title of this film is going to implicate that it's a Batman and Superman movie so I can't expect them to not have him featured heavily. I want to see a World's Finest movie. I think everyone would. But not now.

No matter what you say liek " a new story" and "addition of new villain" will also work for my side of the argument. You've never seen it before either and it could be good. I am not going to argue all night but why can't you just hope it is good the way it is now? Why can't you just hope this is a great Worlds Finest film instead of just doubting everything? You do it for Singers film but why not this? It makes no sense why you can't see this or hope to be just a good film instead of tearing it down.

 

[tay1]

Not really arguing if their solo films will work, just that all of those guys are well known. Much more popular than IM, Thor and Cap before Marvel made movies for them.


And to be honest, with the right script and director, all those guys could be good origin films. And you include Sinestro as a not interesting villain? Black Manta? Really? Prof Zoom, Grodd, T.O. Morrow, Circe, Ocean Master, Kordax, etc... Those are all good villains. They aren't going to be Loki or Joker (well Sinestro can actually be on that level) but they'll make good villains. Crime Syndicate?
No matter what you say liek " a new story" and "addition of new villain" will also work for my side of the argument. You've never seen it before either and it could be good. I am not going to argue all night but why can't you just hope it is good the way it is now? Why can't you just hope this is a great Worlds Finest film instead of just doubting everything? You do it for Singers film but why not this? It makes no sense why you can't see this or hope to be just a good film instead of tearing it down.

Hope and criticisms can't coexist?

 

[am1x90xnike]

One huge difference between Marvel and Dc is marvel has one main writer, involved in 90+% of Marvel projects. Dc should stick with one writer, adapt one good comic (Kingdom Come) and then let it cook. Comic book writers tell great stories.

 

[rfx45]

I do not see any "hope" in your posts, only criticisms. To you an \S/ is just an \S/. Sorry I had to.

I mean all I'm reading from your posts are "why not do this" or "why not do that?" and "why this and not that?" You've lambasted most of, if not all, decisions about the film so far, at least in this current discussions.

I criticize films too, look at me try and defend DoFP costumes but I still state my distaste for QS costume, Hulk Beast, etc...

But whatever, let's move on.

 

[rfx45]

One huge difference between Marvel and Dc is marvel has one main writer, involved in 90+% of Marvel projects. Dc should stick with one writer, adapt one good comic (Kingdom Come) and then let it cook. Comic book writers tell great stories.

They do, Goyer. :x

 

[am1x90xnike]

Goyer been round since the 90s; Lee been there since day one. Lee created some of the characters, created much of the Universe Goyer doesn't have nearly the level of control/involvedness as Lee.

 

[jadaqwest]

i dig worlds finest but we gon get some bull..... look who they got playin lex luthor....i tried to be optimistic 

 

[rfx45]

You mean Jim Lee? He is an artist, I am not sure how his writing would be. I am sure he is very familiar with the characters but he is an artist first and foremost. He is also very busy being co-publisher of DC Comics so I am not sure he has time to do much unless he quits that job. Dude is still turning in artworks and always on a deadline.

 

[am1x90xnike]

I'm talking about how marvel has Stan lee, basically the creator of the Universe and Dc has had different writers pen the characters.

 

[rfx45]

Oh well, that's kind of different. It is a bit too late to have one creator for most DC characters.

Plus I think Lee doesn't have a hand in the writing in these films, I believe they approach him on what he thinks about them and then gives his opinions but I am not sure how much bearing he has on the films. I'd credit Feige more on the success of these films and how they proceed with each one and how they move forward. He has one vision and has planned it out with his team for the next 2-3 decades. DC doesn't have that.

 

[Master Zik]

Is Momoa even a good actor? I haven't seen any of his work, and I heard he was horrendous in Conan. I'm not saying that you have to cast DDL or anything, but it's an interesting piece of casting. Physically, he looks more like a choice for Lobo.

I'm not sure. He barely talked in GoT.

I know he has a tv show called The Red Road on sundancetv. So if anybody is watching they can chime in.

 

[am1x90xnike]

I think the fact Lee created the characters and the general setting its been easier for Marvel to come up with plots and storylines.m; plus Dc has 'adaptors' not 'creators' on their team, so coming up with storylines isn't their bag, their translators not poets.

I'm excited about the film, hell they could have Wolverine chilling with a cigs, riding around to Ye for an hour and is still watch; but they'll have a hardtime creating that success because they will always suffer from 'to many chefs spoil the pot.'

 

[Master Zik]

I think the fact Lee created the characters and the general setting its been easier for Marvel to come up with plots and storylines.m; plus Dc has 'adaptors' not 'creators' on their team, so coming up with storylines isn't their bag, their translators not poets.

I'm excited about the film, hell they could have Wolverine chilling with a cigs, riding around to Ye for an hour and is still watch; but they'll have a hardtime creating that success because they will always suffer from 'to many chefs spoil the pot.'

From one standpoint this is right Lee and his collaborators (Ditko, mainly Kirby, etc.) got a chance to create cohesive shared universe.

All DC comics is is a bunch of different properties cobbled together that took a longer while to be a shared universe AND make sense but for many they like their crosses and w/e else makes sense of the DC universe. I don't think doing it in the movies will be as big of a problem for them though.

Not sure about their teams though but I will say they clearly don't seem they have a real plan yet or that prepared for the long run. They mainly don't have a Feige running things so far or at least one that hasn't stepped forward yet. Plus you got Snyder or Goyer (I forget who) saying they don't think they're ready for a cohesive shared cinematic universe like Marvel's yet they're adding all these "cameo" characters in the MOS sequel.

 

[illmaticsoulchild]

I honestly don't think Stan Lee's involvement (from a cinematic stand point), past or present, really matters. Like RFX45 has stated, a lot of the success of Marvel's game plan lies on Kevin Fiege's doorstep. The continuity within Marvel's cinematic universe can easily be translated for DC. Iron Man and Batman are rich billionaires that use their intellect and finances to become superheroes. Wonder Woman and Captain America were created during WWII as war heroes. Superman and Thor are essentially gods from different worlds. Hulk and Green Lantern... are green.

To me, all of this boils down to the lack of success of Green Lantern. A setback of epic proportions, IMO. Going into the summer of 2011, you would think GL would at least be in the middle of the pack (even with the early criticism after the SDCC footage). Thor, Cap and even First Class made its' money back, and then some. Shoot even Seth Rogen's Green Hornet outperformed Green Lantern.

I still believe that after GL bombed DC/WB put the brakes on future projects. And with Nolan keeping the Batman franchise in a vacuum, they really had no choice but to really build the cinematic universe off of MoS. That's really where we stand now.

 

[am1x90xnike]

Having the same people who created the actual storyline, be it cinematic or comic, is a huge advantage Marvel has going for it. Lee's involvement in the movies, even if its just approval, is a huge advantage, he had relatively the same vision throughout, it's built in his head how these characters would behave in real life, he's had a plan, even before he had a plan.

DC doesn't have that going for them; they don't have anybody that has been there since day one. They just have to cobble together a coherent movie franchise, whereas Marvel/Stan Lee/Jack Kirby created an entire Universe, even before they knew where movies would go. 

 

[rfx45]

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[bkzkurse]

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