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[essential1]

Welcome everybody. I've been expecting you....
I'm gonna guess the writing is on the wall now, questions is, who comes in and when? The longer we wait, the longer we have to deal with even more change, cuz that coach will need some time to get everyone adjusted to what they want to do, hence, more losses could occur. So if we wait til we're 3-9, we could be 5-15 or something stupid like that.
Quicker we do something, the better chance we have at getting right and going forward.
Killing Brown won't solve ALL of our problems, we will still have some, but it will at least reduce the horrible lineups, and the wear and tear on some guys. I assume a decent coach will know to keep 2 of the 4 on the floor at the same time, things like that. Put guys back in their spots, Jamison is a 4, Ron a 3, etc etc.

I don't think it is all Brown.. To me it's been 50/50. My change has more so to do with the personalities of the team and it looking bad, and the idea that the longer you wait the harder it will be to change course..

Sees Jamison playing the 3

Sees Ron playing the 2

Sees Meeks not playing at all.

Sees rotation that makes no sense, ever.

Sees 1 starter with 4 backups to start quarters 2 and 4 for no reason.


Yeah, 50/50 seems right.

Regardless of your concerns of the rotation.. No one is executing outside of Kobe.. Howard's play has been good, but not to Dwight's standards.. I give him a pass for getting back into the swing of things.. So 2 players are playing well.. The rest are not executing to their full capabilities, even Hill who I think has been good in 2 games, bad in 3..

50/50 is right. If you really can't get why that is the case, there's no point to argue.

You look at the games we lost, we've played absolutely horrible. Yet lost by 8, 9, 10 & 10. There wasn't a game we've played where we were not within striking distance.

Just one good 3 minute stretch during the game and we'd have the games, DESPITE playing like ****.

That means that the execution is a problem as much, or more than coaching

 

[CP1708]

What part of not executing are you not understanding when guys are NOT IN THEIR CORRECT POSITIONS?

Execute?

How I'm execute when I play with Ebanks tonight, and Meeks tomorrow?

How I'ma execute when I'm a PF playin SF?

How I'ma do my job when I'm a SF playin SG?

How I do my job when I play 20 minutes tonight, and 4 tomorrow?


They aren't executing? Say word?

Lemme guess, you just roll the ol ball out, and guys just "do their job"? So I can just move Dwight to the SF spot and he can just play then, right? Cuz all 5 spots is the same.

Why don't we post up Steve Blake, cuz ya know, he's a basketball player, it's his job.


YOU HAVE TO PUT GUYS IN THE RIGHT SPOT FOR THEM TO SUCCEED.

Jamison has played this game for 20 years, just fine. Comes here, he has ZERO idea what to do, or how to do it. But you think that's on him?

Jodi Meeks, you a shooter, why you can't make shots now? Ummm, cuz he don't get minutes on the regular, as he should.

Meeks would FLOURISH with Phil, cuz he would be Shannon Brown, but better. Come in, same time every game, same role, do your job, repeat, game after game after game.

With Mike? 10 minutes here, 5 there. 25 minutes here, 6 there. You can't "execute" when you're getting yanked like that.


I'm not saying Phil has to come back, I'm giving you examples of how guys were used, same way, game after game after game, and got it done. Phil had every scrub on the team in the same set up, they knew what to do, and what not to do. We don't have that now, with BETTER players. Jamison, Ron, Blake, Meeks, Hill, they just as good as Fox, Horry, Shaw, Fisher ever were in terms of talent, but what is the biggest difference?

A Coach.

 

[tonelow]

I dont hate Mike Brown, but now I think its time for a change. I dont think the players want him to be there, they just dont play hard for him.

 

[essential1]

"50/50 is right. If you really can't get why that is the case, there's no point to argue."

 

[CP1708]

Yeah, sure. You don't have a way to disprove a word I said, so 50/50 stands.

I been wrong this entire time. I mean, we all knew that Morris shouldn't play in preseason, cuz ya know, we wouldn't need him a week into the season when our 38 year old PG gets banged up.

Oh, that happened. Gee, woulda been nice to help Morris face live action then huh?


And when I spoke out on him not knowing his rotation AS CAMP WAS STARTING, that wasn't a bad sign, now was it?


But hey, 50/50, that will cover everything up and make my argument strong. Sure.

I know, we'll just go sign a crazy D West, trade for Ariza for Duhon, and then we'll trade Blake for another player and we'll be fine, we don't even have to switch coaches. The continuity of all those new players, with these new players that can't get acclimated, will then acclimate themselves really well and we'll be fine.

50/50

 

[grittyman]

Jamison, Ron, Blake, Meeks, Hill, they just as good as Fox, Horry, Shaw, Fisher ever were in terms of talent

Wait a second, you don't really believe that now do you?

 

[essential1]

Nash played 8 games 22 mpg. Blakes 7 at 14.5 mpg. Duhon 5 at 9.6 mpg. Morris 5 at 8.4 mpg.

Starter plays most. Backup plays 2nd most. Third string plays third most (at the time it was Duhon).


There you go..

And Jamison has been a stretch 4 for a few years.. But has also seen a lot of time as a SF as well throughout his career... Yet he doesn't know how to play as a SF.. Get entirely the **** outta here... But Jamison doesn't know what he's doing out there with what I presume are tears rolling down your face.... He's a veteran who has played a lot of time at that position.. Yet it's not his fault that he averages only 2 points more than Jordan Hill in 36 minutes when he is supposed to be 10x the offensive scorer that Hill is... He is not executing..

 

[CP1708]

Since Golden State, please tell me when Jamison was playing SF.

He didn't play 3 at Washington.

Didn't play 3 at Dallas

He didn't play 3 at Cleveland.

Yeah, lots of time at SF.

 

[CP1708]

Actually, I take that back, Jamison might have played 3 in Dallas, Nellie Ball. When was that, 2003? 04? So almost a decade since he's been a 3, but he should just step right in now and do it again, without working on those type skills for 8-9 years, and now being 36 instead of 27.

My bad.

 

[CP1708]

Just read through the thread about free agents being turned away because MB said that he wouldn't adjust to fit them in. Hill, Barbosa, Martin, etc.

*changes lanes*

But I'm not going to join you guys in complaining about him every game, every
hour, or hardly ever. It is what it is... until it isn't.

To be fair, I can not prove that story was 100%. It was some source on the team, like I said, it could have been sour grapes from Meeks, or somebody else. So I don't know for sure that that's how it all went down. It was brought up on Twitter, and I talked about it in here, but no way for me to be totally sure it's accurate.

I hate Mike, but gotta be at least fair towards him with speculation. On the court, I can complain about him, off the court, I can't speak on that part without multiple people claiming something.


My fear has always been that for some reason, Kobe backs him up. Maybe Kobe doesn't want to get beat down like what happened with Bynum, or the "trade me" stuff, but last night, maybe Kobe is starting to turn. I dunno. Until the players start really pushing for a change, they "seem" to back Brown. And that scares me to death. I rather them ***** about him every single day so we can make a move and get going.

 

[grittyman]

Should the Lakers fire Mike Brown now? Probably

Will the Lakers fire him now? Probably not.

I hear you guys saying that the players have tuned him out, which may or may not be true...I can't really say 100%. I do think Kobe is on board with him (for now) and I'd say the same for Dwight, Blake and Hill. The two guys who don't seem to be responding to him now are Pau and MWP, but I'm pretty sure we said the same thing about those two while Phil was still the coach. As much as I appreciate what they've done for the Laker organization I'd like for those two guys to be traded like yesterday.

As far as the Jamison at the 3 experiment we've been seeing, guess it's pretty obvious to all that it's not going to work. I understand the need to incorporate him into the rotation, and since Hill can only play the 4 there's a real issue as far as where to play him. Where ever he ends up there's always going to be a defensive mismatch so there's that...

Coaching aside, we still have very little athleticism on the perimeter and poor shooting in a league where most elite teams have an abundance of both. So even if we do fire MB these issues are real and aren't going any where.

 

[pmatic]

Where you been at Gritty?

 

[grittyman]

Hey man, I have twin boys going through the terrible 2's right now...

#PrayforGrittyman

 

 

[essential1]

Jamison knows his identity... He doesn't even need to play defense. We know he can't play defense.

He was brought here to score. To be the biggest scoring threat on the bench.

He was brought here for OFFENSE.. OFFENSE.. OFFENSE... OFFENSE..

Hell if he wanted he could stand on the offensive end and we'll play 4 on 5 on defense.

Mike Brown wants him to score, Mitch & Jim brought him in to score...

Jamison played with Eddie Jordan as the HEAD COACH from 04-08 i. And half a season with Mike Brown.

Yet it's Mike Brown's fault that Jamison can't get his head out of his *** to play only one half of the game.

OK CP.. OK.


He played in the Princeton Offense for multiple seasons.. Yet how in the world could Antawn Jamison figure out the Princeton Offense now...

"We have no identity" = "I'm scare **** less and I can't play well anymore."

 

[CP1708]

Remember when Ron was in the best shape of his life, and shooting well and all that, about a month ago?

That was nice.


If there's a move I would love to see, even tho it wouldn't work because of defense, when Nash got back, Kobe at SF, and Meeks at SG to give Dwight the ultimate spacing and let Nash pick and choose shooters. That way Ron is guaranteed to have more run with the bench, maybe work on the block more off of whichever Center is in.

But Kobe would get worn down on defense against SF's.



In a ton of ways, Ron doesn't fit with either unit. He blocks Jamison/Hill and can't play 2

And he doesn't shoot well enough to blend in with Kobe/Nash and the bigs.

 

[essential1]

This is the problem with the rotation for these 5 backups and an inept starter...

Can you see why it creates a problem... When Hill deserves the playing time he gets.. And Jamison playing will take Hill's minutes.. Unless you want to play Jamison & Hill together, which everyone is against taking both Howard & Pau out at the same time.

So he moves Jamison to a position he has played before.. In an offense he has played in before with 2 coaches he's played for.. In order to allow Hill to get his minutes...

With Jamison supposed to being the biggest scoring option, that means we now have less minutes at SF... No one cares about Jamison's defense, if they did, we wouldn't have signed him.. Ebanks deserves some time, Metta I guess deserves some time.. Sure I agree Meeks should play.. So now we close out more time.. Meeks will still not play the minutes he should get.


Can it be done.. Yes.. It takes more than 5 or 6 lineups throughout a night... Unless you want Jamison to play the 3 where it can be done a little bit easier.

 

[MVP]

Sigh, guess we'll have to fall to about 2-10 or so for this clown Brownie to get the axe. Dude is a clueless buffoon out there. Fit a system to maximize the talents of your personnel, not the other way around. Don't take superstars and decent players and try to place them in something that doesn't cater to their abilities. As for the rotations, nothing else needs to be said, CP said it all.

 

[pmatic]

Angry Lakers’ fan pepper sprays Jazz fan after game

An angry Los Angeles Lakers’ fan on Thursday night opened fire on a Jazz fan with a can of pepper spray outside Energy Solutions Arena.

Salt Lake City police Detective Josh Ashdown said a pair of Utah Jazz fans were attending the basketball game Wednesday night when they started trash talking with a pair of Lakers fans.

The discussion escalated and the Lakers fans challenged the Jazz fans to a fight, which they declined, Ashdown said.

Security threw the two Lakers’ fans out of the game, but they apparently decided to stick around to continue the confrontation with the Jazz fans, he said.

The Lakers’ fans spotted the Jazz fans standing on the corner of 100 South and 400 West and started trash talking again.

At that point, one of the Lakers’ fans pulled out pepper spray fogger and let loose with it, police said.

Ashdown said instead of a concentrated spray, the fogger expels a big mist of spray very much like a fire extinguisher.

Police said they were searching for a Latino in his early 30s who was wearing a Lakers jersey.

He’s about 5 feet 6 inches tall and weighs about 150 pounds. The man has medium length brown hair and was in a Dodge Charger.

The Jazz won 95-86.

Link

 

[grittyman]

Late pass: But I don't like this new site, some of my posts show up and others don't.

Anyways, I'm curious: What is the idea "system" or style of play offensively and defensively for this current roster?

 

[CP1708]

This is the problem with the rotation for these 5 backups and an inept starter...

Can you see why it creates a problem... When Hill deserves the playing time he gets.. And Jamison playing will take Hill's minutes.. Unless you want to play Jamison & Hill together, which everyone is against taking both Howard & Pau out at the same time.

So he moves Jamison to a position he has played before.. In an offense he has played in before with 2 coaches he's played for.. In order to allow Hill to get his minutes...

With Jamison supposed to being the biggest scoring option, that means we now have less minutes at SF... No one cares about Jamison's defense, if they did, we wouldn't have signed him.. Ebanks deserves some time, Metta I guess deserves some time.. Sure I agree Meeks should play.. So now we close out more time.. Meeks will still not play the minutes he should get.


Can it be done.. Yes.. It takes more than 5 or 6 lineups throughout a night... Unless you want Jamison to play the 3 where it can be done a little bit easier.

No, that makes no sense. You can play Jamison at 4 next to Dwight just fine. He's a stretch 4, can get boards if needed, or he can open up the offense, since as you say, we don't care about his defense.

Hill can play with Pau why? Cuz Pau can be the spacer from 18 feet, and Hill down low for dirty work.

I've said this over and over.

He does NOT HAVE TO PLAY C + 4 bench players. That is STUPID. So he does NOT have to play Dwight, Hill AND Jamison. That is ridiculous.


Dwight/Jamison/Ebanks/Meeks/Nash

Pau/Hill/Ron/Kobe/Blake


And then you mix and match for when you want all 4 starters as you wish. How is that difficult? You can still switch within that same group. Meeks sucks, in comes Kobe. Ebanks ain't workin out, bring in Ron. You switch man for man. YOU DO NOT MOVE GUYS OUT OF POSITION JUST CUZ AND SIT A USEFUL PLAYER FOR NO DAMN REASON.

You can alter it in so many ways.

Dwight/Jamison/Ron/Kobe/Blake

Pau/Hill/Ebanks/Meeks/Nash


You're trying to find room for Dwight or Pau + Hill, Jamison, Ron, PG. That leaves Ebanks and Meeks in the dark and he's putting stresses on the offense and defense for no reason. To compensate, he yanks everyone early (due to his poor rotations) and then overworks the starters. Add it all up, no bench players help out, and he wears down old dudes with nagging injuries. Brilliant.

(I know that Morris is using up Nash's minutes now, switch their names as needed, but playing Morris, Ron, Jamison, Hill + Center, yeah, that's beyond stupid. If you are ever going to have 2 of the 4 key guys out there, it should be with Morris. Get better glasses Mike)

 

[mcstrokin]

Mike Brown needs to fired period point blank. It freaking ludicrous to even argue otherwise. Morris is a scrub can't believe the Lakers passed up other options for this bum. 

 

[flyerthandelta]

Mike Brown is not an offensive minded coach we've seen it in the past def guru...but when you have Eddie on your staff as a offensive cord incorporating the triangle Princeton offense all together it's not gonna work AT ALL!!!!! It's only gonna get worse how many more games can you keep losing :x .....the question should be is How long can Kobe sustain before exploding to the media....

 

[pmatic]

IF EVERY PLAYER WERE 100%.

To start the first quarter: Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Nash
6:00 mark: Blake for Nash...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Blake
5:00 mark: Hill/Ebanks for Howard/MWP...Pau, Hill, Ebanks, Kobe and Blake
2:00 mark: Meeks/Nash for Kobe/Blake...Pau, Hill, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash

To start the second quarter: Hill, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash
10:30 mark: Howard for Hill...Howard, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash
8:00 minute mark: MWP for Ebanks...Howard, Jamison, MWP, Meeks and Nash
6:00 minute mark: Kobe/Blake for Meeks/Nash...Howard, Jamison, MWP, Kobe and Blake
5:00 minute mark: Pau for Jamison...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Blake
2:00 minute mark: Nash for Blake...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Nash

Repeat similar substitution pattern in the second half and it breaks down like this for an overall game (give or take a minute):

Howard: 35
Pau: 34
MWP: 30
Kobe: 32
Nash: 32

Hill: 13
Jamison: 12
Ebanks: 18
Meeks: 16
Blake: 16

Front court: I want Howard and MWP anchoring the defense with Nash out there as much as possible. Jamison too. It's probably too many minutes for Ebanks at this point, but MWP shouldn't play more than 30 minutes per, no way in hell Jamison should be guarding SFs and I don't want Kobe facing the wear and tear of guarding SFs either. Dating back to last season, Pau and Hill play well together and Jamison should get more shots with Howard sucking in defenses.

Backcourt: I think Kobe and Nash can play together, but to maximize the talent of the other guys I'm having them be the focus of the offense separately for the most part. The substitution pattern involving Nash and Blake is screwy, but it's doable. Let Nash and Howard work the pick and roll with Jamison and Meeks flanking the wings. Kobe can dominate the ball with Blake next to him or play through Pau.

 

[the kobe show]

i don't get it.. we need to play better defense and we need some scoring ability off the bench and I feel Jodie could be that guy. Just let him get in rhythm and then he'll be lights out. I almost sure he is best scoring option off the bench and his defense is not bad, always active.

 

[CP1708]

IF EVERY PLAYER WERE 100%.

To start the first quarter: Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Nash
6:00 mark: Blake for Nash...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Blake
5:00 mark: Hill/Ebanks for Howard/MWP...Pau, Hill, Ebanks, Kobe and Blake
2:00 mark: Meeks/Nash for Kobe/Blake...Pau, Hill, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash

To start the second quarter: Hill, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash
10:30 mark: Howard for Hill...Howard, Jamison, Ebanks, Meeks and Nash
8:00 minute mark: MWP for Ebanks...Howard, Jamison, MWP, Meeks and Nash
6:00 minute mark: Kobe/Blake for Meeks/Nash...Howard, Jamison, MWP, Kobe and Blake
5:00 minute mark: Pau for Jamison...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Blake
2:00 minute mark: Nash for Blake...Howard, Pau, MWP, Kobe and Nash

Repeat similar substitution pattern in the second half and it breaks down like this for an overall game (give or take a minute):

Howard: 35
Pau: 34
MWP: 30
Kobe: 32
Nash: 32

Hill: 13
Jamison: 12
Ebanks: 18
Meeks: 16
Blake: 16

Front court: I want Howard and MWP anchoring the defense with Nash out there as much as possible. Jamison too. It's probably too many minutes for Ebanks at this point, but MWP shouldn't play more than 30 minutes per, no way in hell Jamison should be guarding SFs and I don't want Kobe facing the wear and tear of guarding SFs either. Dating back to last season, Pau and Hill play well together and Jamison should get more shots with Howard sucking in defenses.

Backcourt: I think Kobe and Nash can play together, but to maximize the talent of the other guys I'm having them be the focus of the offense separately for the most part. The substitution pattern involving Nash and Blake is screwy, but it's doable. Let Nash and Howard work the pick and roll with Jamison and Meeks flanking the wings. Kobe can dominate the ball with Blake next to him or play through Pau.

Oh hey. Look at that.

Thank you.