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Because then we would have to question Jason Kidd as well at 14 ppg and 9 apg for his career even though he played starters minutes from the begining whileNash sat the bench his first 2 seasons.
Does Steve Nash make it into the Hall minus the MVP's?
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Because then we would have to question Jason Kidd as well at 14 ppg and 9 apg for his career even though he played starters minutes from the begining whileNash sat the bench his first 2 seasons.
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The question isn't whether Nash would make it without the MVPs, the question is how the @!#! does Nash even have 2 MVPs?
More than Kobe, Iverson, Shaq, Kidd ?
The guy who can't play defense, lead his team to the Finals, plays in a renowned high-scoring offense (compare Nash and Chris Duhon's stats)....
Has he ever made a key defensive play? Strong correlation of PGs having career games against him and dunkers having career highlights at his expense (Kobe orRicky Davis)
Has he ever led garbage anywhere? Amare, Q-Rich, Marion, Joe Johnson > Luke Walton, Odom, Kwame, Smush
MVP voting, especially in the NBA, is so biased...one year it's about who's the most dominant, then the next year it's the best player on the bestteam...
Chris Duhon > Nash.... Mike D'Antoni > Nash's career
More than Kobe, Iverson, Shaq, Kidd ?
The guy who can't play defense, lead his team to the Finals, plays in a renowned high-scoring offense (compare Nash and Chris Duhon's stats)....
Has he ever made a key defensive play? Strong correlation of PGs having career games against him and dunkers having career highlights at his expense (Kobe orRicky Davis)
Has he ever led garbage anywhere? Amare, Q-Rich, Marion, Joe Johnson > Luke Walton, Odom, Kwame, Smush
MVP voting, especially in the NBA, is so biased...one year it's about who's the most dominant, then the next year it's the best player on the bestteam...
Chris Duhon > Nash.... Mike D'Antoni > Nash's career
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I'm not a big Kidd fan but Kidd at his peak had just as big an impact on offense as Steve at his peak and Kidd at his peak was one of the bestdefensive point guards of all time.
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Man, all these guys saying it's a travesty that Steve has MVP's over Shaq, Kobe, AI, Kidd etc...Get it in your head...he was MVP for those TWOparticular seasons, and he deserved them...Kidd/Kobe/AI/______ were not better than him those particular seasons. Shaq, arguable for the first one. The otherone, not even close. See Ryguy's on-point analysis.
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Dirk deserved Steve Nash's second MVP more than he deserved the one he actually won.
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Nash is one of the most overrated player to win the MVP award.
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Nash had about 3-4 years playing at a hall of fame level. But before that he was an above average to average player. Not a hall of famer. If he had a ringto back up those mvp's he'd get the benefit of the doubt, but obviously that's not the case.
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what a ******ed question... why the hell would you minus the MVP's??? thats like asking if Hakeem Olajuwon would make the hall minus the blocksrecord.......or Does Bil Russell make the Hall minus his 13 rings.... seriously one of the dumber posts i have seen on NT... just log off, ban urself, go dressup in ur Nash jersey and shoot some Free throws in ur driveway, until your mom and dad call you inside for meatloaf night. Then you can go back and check NT tosee your " DOES MJ MAKE THE HALL MINUS HIS MVP'S, SCORING TITELS, CHAMPIONSHIPS, AND SHOES?"......absolutely ridiculous...you must be under theage of 16.... come back in about 2-3 years
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I bring in the MVP's because many people believe them to be "undeserved" and that those "undeserved" MVP's are theonly reason he is making it into the HoF. I also mention the fact that he's on pace to move up to 8th place on the all-time assist leaders as proof of hisworth. But what you did was cool. Spend 4 lines like an angry hobo without saying anything of significance. That's cool too.
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When he retires he will be at least Top 6, probably Top 5 in assists all-time. That on top of just one MVP gets him in. With two he's a shoe in.
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Anyways, it's a dumb hypothetical and I'm biased as hell since he's a hometown hero.. Plus, I'm all about offense (unless it's ******edlyselfish)..
He might not have been deserving of the MVP's but the fact is, he got them (and it wasn't like it was through steroids; it was thru a fun run-and-gunoffense).. So it's all moo.. I guess the thing is he was just a really late bloomer and so he's always a bit under-appreciated.. I bet he's a 1stor 2nd ballot selection when it's all said and done..
As far as Kidd vs Nash.. I would say that I'd still put Kidd ahead of Nash at this point career-wise due to more sustained excellence (Kidd had at least 1MVP-caliber season).. We'll see whether Nash's game holds up better than Kidd's..
He might not have been deserving of the MVP's but the fact is, he got them (and it wasn't like it was through steroids; it was thru a fun run-and-gunoffense).. So it's all moo.. I guess the thing is he was just a really late bloomer and so he's always a bit under-appreciated.. I bet he's a 1stor 2nd ballot selection when it's all said and done..
As far as Kidd vs Nash.. I would say that I'd still put Kidd ahead of Nash at this point career-wise due to more sustained excellence (Kidd had at least 1MVP-caliber season).. We'll see whether Nash's game holds up better than Kidd's..
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Exactly.....
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/ThreadOriginally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh
Originally Posted by RyGuy45
Shaq, Kobe, and Allen Iverson
3 of the greatest to ever play the game, 35 something seasons combined from the 3 of them, they have 3 MVP's.
Nash who as has been said already, is barely a top 10 PG in the last couple decades, has 2 by himself.
Those voters who gave those awards to Nash should be ashamed of themselves and retire from voting for anything, even American Idol.
MVP awards are tainted now because of Nash. People who continue to support him and beleive he deserved the awards are clueless and just like rotting for the little Rudy's of the world.
Nash playing in 1990's = zero MVP awards.
Nashin playing in mid-2000's = 2 MVP awards, close to 3.
He came on at the right time and those individual seasons were noteworthy. Blame the state of the L and the other candidates. Blame the system that has been in place for decades (top players on top 3-4 teams get MVP award). Blame the fact that voters narrowed it down to 2-3 players each of those year (2-3 players 95% of NBA followers over the age of 17 would have agreed on) and decided to give majority vote to Nash in the end. Not 100%. Majority.
Old news.
You can make a case for Shaq winning one of them but Kobe winning would have been unprecedented. If your team is elite you DON'T win MVP's it's really that simple.
Jordan won the MVP in 87-88 and his team finished 50-32 record, which was tied for the 3rd best record in the east and 7th in the NBA overall.. Heaveraged 35 pts, 5.5 reb, 5.9 ast, 3.2 ast, and 1.6 blks.
And the argument against Nash that I heard over the years was that his team couldn't even make it to the NBA finals.
Jordan AT THE TIME, didn't even make the ECF. And prior to the 87-88 season, his team was swept from the first round the previous 2 seasons and lost 3-1three seasons back.
That same year, Magic and the Lakers finished with 62-20 record. Magic averaged 19.6 pts, 6.2 reb, 11.9 ast 1.6 ast, 0.2 blks.
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i dont mind nash winning the 2nd MVP he got, but he straight robbed shaq of one the 1st time around
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Jordan won the MVP in 87-88 and his team finished 50-32 record, which was tied for the 3rd best record in the east and 7th in the NBA overall.. He averaged 35 pts, 5.5 reb, 5.9 ast, 3.2 ast, and 1.6 blks.
And the argument against Nash that I heard over the years was that his team couldn't even make it to the NBA finals.
Jordan AT THE TIME, didn't even make the ECF.
That same year, Magic and the Lakers finished with 62-20 record. Magic averaged 19.6 pts, 6.2 reb, 11.9 ast 1.6 ast, 0.2 blks.
True... And we have all said for years Jordan that year (87-8was the exception to the rule. We've known that. Jordan though that seasondid average 35.0 PPG, shot .535 from the field, led the NBA in steals and was named NBA Defensive Player of the Year. (Was All Star Game MVP and DunkChampion to top it off)
And the Bulls went from 40-42 to 50-32 which i guess helped.
I believe there might have been one other winner (possibly Olajuwon) who didnt have a top seed......but other than that every year the voting has beenbasically right down the line.
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True... And we have all said for years Jordan that year (87-8
was the exception to the rule. We've known that. Jordan though that season did average 35.0 PPG, shot .535 from the field, led the NBA in steals and was named NBA Defensive Player of the Year. (Was All Star Game MVP and Dunk Champion to top it off) 
I believe there might have been one other winner (possibly Olajuwon) who didnt have a top seed......but other than that every year the voting has been basically right down the line.
Yes. I agree. I'm not discrediting Jordan or his 87-88 season, as it is one of the greatest seasons we will season by an individual EVER. Mypoint is though, that thought the NBA follows general guidelines for voting, there is nothing definitive. If that was the case, Shaq was the best player on theone of the elite teams for years, but never won more than 1 MVP. One of the main points against him during those years. He had Kobe Bryant.
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i may have misread you, maybe, but with you having 2 or more edits a post, i think that would be pretty understandable.
bottom line, Nash is a great player, but J Kidd is the better....imo of course.
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Something interesting to note about Shaq and Kobe during the 01/02 -- 03/04 seasons.
Shaq and Kobe finished in the top 6 of MVP each of those 3 seasons, essentially preventing one another from the award.
Shaq and Kobe finished in the top 6 of MVP each of those 3 seasons, essentially preventing one another from the award.
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Even with the MVPs he shouldnt make it to the Hall.
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LOL, Kidd has the same career stats despite not having 2 years of bench time to lower his stats. I'm sure he averages a few more rebounds, but Nash shootsa way higher percentage.
Don't forget MVP's are regular season awards, they have nothing to do with the playoffs.