edit: Should Affirmative Action be reformed?

[dynamic x]

It doesn't work. Now I know the majority of the people on here are probably black, African-American, whatever. But what I'm trying to see is that ifyou guys who are black agree with me; I don't think it should be allowed.

It isn't a case about being fair, but I think it is about not being the right thing to be implemented. While I do agree that it is beneficial for blacks toget scholarship funds if they have a lower income, does it make sense to statistically allow a person who has had a lower score that another person who had abetter score into college? It is the school system that should be changed if anything. They are the ones that are preparing whatever race attends that schoolfor college; Every student should correlate with their college not by skin and diversity, but by their knowledge. I don't think affirmative action doesthat. I don't like how the truly gifted black students I know of are being cheated out of how smart they really are, and getting scholarships based offtheir skin color, not their educated merit, when a white student who isn't black, Asian, or hispanic, but does just as well in school doesn't receiveany scholarship for their diversity.

Do you mind that you were picked by a good college because you're Black, Asian, or Hispanic? Or would you felt better that you were accepted because youwere smart?

I just thought about this today and wanted to know if this board would agree. All opinions are welcome, I want to see some thoughts.

 

[trueshotaura]

No

 

[adambomb007]

u really did not pay attention in history or are stupid. Schools were segregated until the 1960's and blacks were not givin equal oppurtunities since theinception of the us of a. Affirmative action was made to pave forth a way for blacks to intigrate into society. Sure, it helps minorities gets aid and easierto get in, but the white man screwed all non angloe races over 100's of yrs. If u really need to question that, ur very ignorant about history.

 

[in yo nostril]

i think it should be based on SES instead of race.

its been done away with in california public universities for a while now. the numbers of minorities dropped (except asians) but people never really complainedmuch

 

[lazy b]

Reformed? Yes.

Banned? No.

Don't use the argument on how blacks benefit the most. That cannot be further from the truth. White women are the main beneficiaries of Affirmative Action.More so than any minority group.

*Waits for the ignorant replies and the ensuing $@!@ that hits the fan.*

 

[raptors29]

Originally Posted by Adambomb007

u really did not pay attention in history or are stupid. Schools were segregated until the 1960's and blacks were not givin equal oppurtunities since the inception of the us of a. Affirmative action was made to pave forth a way for blacks to intigrate into society. Sure, it helps minorities gets aid and easier to get in, but the white man screwed all non angloe races over 100's of yrs. If u really need to question that, ur very ignorant about history.

But we're not in the past now, we're in the present.

 

[davidisgodly]

Looking at the macro, its a great idea, great diversity.

Looking at it from a micro, I'd hate to be the one kicked out to fill a "dumber" person.

 

[sn00pee]

AA doesnt work how you think it does. A person with a lower score will not be favored over a person with a higher score.
And AA doesnt just apply to African-Americans.

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by Adambomb007

u really did not pay attention in history or are stupid. Schools were segregated until the 1960's 1980's and blacks were not givin equal oppurtunities since the inception of the us of a. Affirmative action was made to pave forth a way for blacks to intigrate into society. Sure, it helps minorities gets aid and easier to get in, but the white man screwed all non angloe races over 100's of yrs. If u really need to question that, ur very ignorant about history.

fixed.

White women are the main beneficiaries of Affirmative Action
I dig the intelligence. AA is not just based on race. Women are minority also.

 

[adambomb007]

Originally Posted by raptors29

Originally Posted by Adambomb007

u really did not pay attention in history or are stupid. Schools were segregated until the 1960's and blacks were not givin equal oppurtunities since the inception of the us of a. Affirmative action was made to pave forth a way for blacks to intigrate into society. Sure, it helps minorities gets aid and easier to get in, but the white man screwed all non angloe races over 100's of yrs. If u really need to question that, ur very ignorant about history.

But we're not in the past now, we're in the present.

wow. how long should affirmative action work than? its been about 50 years since blacks were allowed into white only schools. Ur comment really does not makeany sense

 

[davidisgodly]

I wonder who came up with this idea.

 

[HEATHEN]

Soooo much fail in this thread.

 

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by raptors29

Originally Posted by Adambomb007

u really did not pay attention in history or are stupid. Schools were segregated until the 1960's and blacks were not givin equal oppurtunities since the inception of the us of a. Affirmative action was made to pave forth a way for blacks to intigrate into society. Sure, it helps minorities gets aid and easier to get in, but the white man screwed all non angloe races over 100's of yrs. If u really need to question that, ur very ignorant about history.

But we're not in the past now, we're in the present.

Typical cop out answer...

"Times have changed".

"The playing field is even"

"We're not in the past now, we're in the present"....

Yet dominant groups (namely white middle-upper class males) have so much more privilege then others in society.

Inherit money, come up living in better tax-base areas which means better schools, more opportunities etc etc etc...

The starting lines for race are so far apart to this day its not even funny, and 95% of people are either in denial, ignorant, or just don't want to admitit.

 

[mojodmonky1]

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

It doesn't work. Now I know the majority of the people on here are probably black, African-American, whatever. But what I'm trying to see is that if you guys who are black agree with me; I don't think it should be allowed.

It isn't a case about being fair, but I think it is about not being the right thing to be implemented. While I do agree that it is beneficial for blacks to get scholarship funds if they have a lower income, does it make sense to statistically allow a person who has had a lower score that another person who had a better score into college? It is the school system that should be changed if anything. They are the ones that are preparing whatever race attends that school for college; Every student should correlate with their college not by skin and diversity, but by their knowledge. I don't think affirmative action does that. I don't like how the truly gifted black students I know of are being cheated out of how smart they really are, and getting scholarships based off their skin color, not their educated merit, when a white student who isn't black, Asian, or hispanic, but does just as well in school doesn't receive any scholarship for their diversity.

Do you mind that you were picked by a good college because you're Black, Asian, or Hispanic? Or would you felt better that you were accepted because you were smart?

I just thought about this today and wanted to know if this board would agree. All opinions are welcome, I want to see some thoughts.

First things first. I'm 99% sure that Affirmative Action has no bearing on Asians. UCLA is 50% asian cause them kids hittin the books hard, not causethey are underqualified minorities.

"does it make sense to statistically allow a person who has had a lower score that another person who had a better score into college?"
You are making the assumption though that it is a level playing field. It's not. Most standardized testing is biased. The SAT's for example areskewed to favor White Males. Furthermore, standardized tests like the SAT's or ACT's is not a measure of ones intelligence. All it is, is a measureof one's TEST TAKING SKILLS. I used to teach SAT prep for a living for 4-5 years and the best ways to increase scores was not memorizing 1000 vocab words. The best way was to work on test taking strategy. I had co-workers who could blindly take an SAT practice test and score 1500+ everytime (under the oldscoring system of 1600.... yea.... im old) Its not that they had a crazy good vocabulary, or they were math whizzes. They were just highly highly trained atstandardized test taking strategy. Nothing to do with knowlege.

 

[potus2028]

Picture life as a 10-foot wall. Now, Blaine from Suburbia, KS was born into a middle class family, went through good schools, and probably had both parents. Sowe'll say Blaine has a 8 foot ladder. Yes he still has 2 climb over the wall, but he was pretty high 2 start with. Raheem from DC was born with a rustyknife in his mouth. He was raised by his mother, went 2 trash schools that aint prepare him 4 $#!+ but graduation. Raheem has a 6 foot ladder. What AA does isgive Raheem a small boost...he wasnt as high as Blaine, and still isnt (maybe 7.5ft) but he has a better chance 2 climb over than before, but it is still aboutwhat he does with that opportunity.



Hope that analogy was clear...at least translucent....

 

[lazy b]

Originally Posted by Mojodmonky1

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

It doesn't work. Now I know the majority of the people on here are probably black, African-American, whatever. But what I'm trying to see is that if you guys who are black agree with me; I don't think it should be allowed.

It isn't a case about being fair, but I think it is about not being the right thing to be implemented. While I do agree that it is beneficial for blacks to get scholarship funds if they have a lower income, does it make sense to statistically allow a person who has had a lower score that another person who had a better score into college? It is the school system that should be changed if anything. They are the ones that are preparing whatever race attends that school for college; Every student should correlate with their college not by skin and diversity, but by their knowledge. I don't think affirmative action does that. I don't like how the truly gifted black students I know of are being cheated out of how smart they really are, and getting scholarships based off their skin color, not their educated merit, when a white student who isn't black, Asian, or hispanic, but does just as well in school doesn't receive any scholarship for their diversity.

Do you mind that you were picked by a good college because you're Black, Asian, or Hispanic? Or would you felt better that you were accepted because you were smart?

I just thought about this today and wanted to know if this board would agree. All opinions are welcome, I want to see some thoughts.

First things first. I'm 99% sure that Affirmative Action has no bearing on Asians. UCLA is 50% asian cause them kids hittin the books hard, not cause they are underqualified minorities.

"does it make sense to statistically allow a person who has had a lower score that another person who had a better score into college?"
You are making the assumption though that it is a level playing field. It's not. Most standardized testing is biased. The SAT's for example are skewed to favor White Males. Furthermore, standardized tests like the SAT's or ACT's is not a measure of ones intelligence. All it is, is a measure of one's TEST TAKING SKILLS. I used to teach SAT prep for a living for 4-5 years and the best ways to increase scores was not memorizing 1000 vocab words. The best way was to work on test taking strategy. I had co-workers who could blindly take an SAT practice test and score 1500+ everytime (under the old scoring system of 1600.... yea.... im old) Its not that they had a crazy good vocabulary, or they were math whizzes. They were just highly highly trained at standardized test taking strategy. Nothing to do with knowlege.

You sure about that? Read the NY Times article "Little Asia on the Hill". Affirmative Action still has a lot to do with it. Its not allintelligence that gets them into Berkeley or UCLA.

OP, I can tell that you're one of those people in college who blames the minority for stealing your friend's "spot".

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Well white people has affirmative action for 300 years so I would say it would be fare to give the process a little more time.

 

[czur1127]

not untill it hooks me up with a good graduate school n a good job....

 

[thizzle wigle]

na it might help me get a job some day

as long as its still an accomplishment to do something that has been done over and over already by white people just because you're black then itshouldn't be around

when theres no more the first black man to do this is when it should be stopped

 

[trapmuzik617]

I'm assumin OP is white...

But like someone said AA helps white women more than anything... and African americans and other minorities rarely have the same opportunities that themajority has... and i also think that the ladder analogy makes plenty of sense

 

[in yo nostril]

i hate when people on here argue but people from poor areas have plenty of opportunities to go to college. i used to work for a few different programs and iwould practically do everything for these kids but take the SAT's. there are no lack of opportunities just a plethora of LAZY @#+ parents in thesecommunities. now thats why i think SES should be factored in because its not necessarily the kids fault that they grew up like this. something has to be doneto break that mindset.

 

[ravagebx]

It's always the dudes who have no clue what they are talking about making these threads, I swear lol. I definitely think reform is worth considering but AAchanges lives in the present, as opposed to waiting for the change in school systems which may not come for years...if at all.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by In Yo Nostril

i think it should be based on SES instead of race.

its been done away with in california public universities for a while now. the numbers of minorities dropped (except asians) but people never really complained much

that's not true.

after the Bakke case, the UCs dropped Affirmative Action and Asians became the majority, but as of late many people are complaining about the severe lack ofdiversity in UC schools.

 

[lazy b]

Originally Posted by DOWNTOWN43

Originally Posted by In Yo Nostril

i think it should be based on SES instead of race.

its been done away with in california public universities for a while now. the numbers of minorities dropped (except asians) but people never really complained much

that's not true.

after the Bakke case, the UCs dropped Affirmative Action and Asians became the majority, but as of late many people are complaining about the severe lack of diversity in UC schools.

What I was referring to earlier. Little Asia on the Hill:
http://www.nytimes.com/20...tion/edlife/07asian.html

it was much more of a big deal back then IMO
Just because people aren't talking about it as much, doesn't mean its not that big of a deal.

 

[dunks87]

in a word. no. i'm black, i'm a female and i'm smart if the first two reasons were the only reasons why i was admitted to school i'm fine withthat.