Elementary School Shooting: Newtown, Connecticut. 28 confirmed dead, 18 were children

[jjs07]

Is dude REALLY advocating people (teachers/administrators) being strapped in an elementary school? I'm hoping I read his argument wrong...but this is NOT the way to go. At all.

 

[longstroke]

Those of you with kids, hug them, love them, allow then their childhood. Love them like you've never been loved yourself,  which means to be patient, allow them their mishaps, and then do not place too much pressure on them to succeed. Pay more attention to how the kids THINK, instead of telling them what they should think.

LOVE is patience. Many people do not know this, because they've never received this in their lives.

I can't imagine how twisted this cat had to be in order to pull the trigger on a baby. It's in the same conversation as the young lady putting her newborn in the trash, or those pedophiles in the church molesting little boys. What we are talking about are some really sick individuals, those who've never had anyone look them in their eyes, then telling that they are loved, and then have a place in this world.

Love your kids man, love them to death. 

Please.

 

[celticsfan9783]

and people are ignoring the worst two terrorist attacks in recent memory which were carried out without firearms

You're right, guns are not needed to carry out mass murders. However, it makes it A LOT easier, especially where civilians are concerned. A guy walks into a crowded mall with a --- A) Semi-automatic firearm B) Hunting Knife/Machete C) Baseball bat -- with the intention of injuring and/or killing as many people as possible, which weapon will cause the most destruction? Which weapon is easiest to resist against?

You people are acting like it's all or nothing. Of course someone can kill a bunch of people with a knife. But I'd rather take my chances with knives and other less lethal weapons than firearms, wouldn't you? No ones saying eliminating guns would completely stop massacres, but it would significantly lower the chances and increase one's ability to survive and/or resist an attack.

In regards to your 9/11 reference...That's a lot different because it took place on an airplane. Way too many variables. Airplanes were used as weapons to cause the most casualties. Rare occurrence as far as innocent civilians are concerned. They also used manipulation (threatening to use explosives, tricking passengers into believing they were going back to the airport). If they had semi-automatic weapons, they could have shot everyone on those planes to death with virtually no resistance before carrying out their kamikaze missions. You're sort of taking an extreme example and throwing it into the conversation. Do you think those events are as likely as school shootings?

 

[thorrocksjs]

Teachers being strapped would be dangerous because one they might snap and pull out on a kid.

 

[decemberlove]

I would rather have a gunless society than a gun-ful one but of course thats not possible and with bad people around we cant just issue bans without thinking of the consequences. Like obama said the one thing we cant do is stay inactive and allow this to happen again. The laws should be much stricter but what of those who obtain arms through illegal means? Enforcement should definitely be changed and public venues should maintain solid security measures (officers in regular clothes). schools should be very careful with visitors and strangers. mental health is difficult to measure and should not be the determining factor upon issuing arms. we need to take baby preventative steps before irrationally repealling an amendment on a whim.

 

[superantigen]

Is dude REALLY advocating people (teachers/administrators) being strapped in an elementary school? I'm hoping I read his argument wrong...but this is NOT the way to go. At all.

Oh yeah, tell that the Republican congressman from Texas, who undoubtedly lobbies for the NRA, otherwise:

(CNN) - U.S. Rep. Louie Gohmert said the deadly Connecticut school shooting could have been halted sooner if staff at the school had been equipped with guns.

"I wish to God (the principal) had had an M4 in her office, locked up, so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out … and takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," the Republican from Texas said on "Fox News Sunday."

We already have enough issues with kids bringing guns and other weapons to school, can you imagine how bad things will get if schools become repositories for guns.






...

 

[ninjahood]

Is dude REALLY advocating people (teachers/administrators) being strapped in an elementary school? I'm hoping I read his argument wrong...but this is NOT the way to go. At all.

pilots in a airplane are now strapped for da same logic.

i rather SOMEONE...ANYONE have some heat on em versus not having it and then worrying about a megalomaniac that hasn't gotten his way in life decide to

take people down with him.

 

[essential1]

Teachers being strapped would be dangerous because one they might snap and pull out on a kid.

EXACTLY.

But that is true of everyone.. Let's say everyone has a gun.. How much more likely are simple arguments going to escalate into someone being shot and killed.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/14/justice/florida-music-shooting/index.html
"The violence was sparked by a confrontation about loud music at a gas station, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said. Dunn told authorities that he had asked the teens to turn down the blaring music coming from their vehicle, which was parked next to his as he waited for his girlfriend to return to the car. He heard threats from the teens, Dunn told police, he felt threatened and he thought he saw a gun in the teens' car. He grabbed his gun and fired at least eight shots, authorities said. Davis, among the teens, was killed. No guns were found inside the teens' car, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said."

A quote from Jason Whitlock, who is a horrible columnist, but said something that is profoundly astute.
"That is the message I wish Chiefs players, professional athletes and all of us would focus on Sunday and moving forward. Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it."


All you need is a sane person to have a brief moment of insanity, and there will be a horrible situation.

 

[deuce king]

Is dude REALLY advocating people (teachers/administrators) being strapped in an elementary school? I'm hoping I read his argument wrong...but this is NOT the way to go. At all.

Apparently he won't be happy and or satisfied until every teacher, substitute teacher, and local street crossing guard that helps little kids cross the street riding the bus to school is packing a gun on them.  Not just that but going with his rationale I say why stop there, how bout the guy that rings up your purchase of nachos and popcorn at the movies, how bout the Produce guy that brings out your fresh vegetables and fruit to you at the grocery store, how bout that person that works those small little kiosk's in the middle of malls all across America.  For his sake, maybe we should do a gun giveaway Oprah Winfrey style............"you get a gun, you get a gun, you get a gun...........you get a gun"

pilots in a airplane are now strapped for da same logic

......and guess what champ, those same pilots are TRAINED on how to use a gun given different scenarios.  Big difference.

 

[jjs07]

pilots in a airplane are now strapped for da same logic.

i rather SOMEONE...ANYONE have some heat on em versus not having it and then worrying about a megalomaniac that hasn't gotten his way in life decide to

take people down with him.

If I have to send my kids to a school where the teachers/admins are packing heat, I'm looking for other options as far as my kids' education.

 

[bandit country]

comparing America to Australia is a bad joke. oz never had a gun culture like ours/ gun ownership was never wide spread prior to the ban. how would our government get the millions of guns from its citizenry? btw, rapes shot up 29% following the Australian ban.

 

[decemberlove]

Everyone packing heat is extremism and makes no sense at all. LESS GUNS is the solution. Not more guns not no guns. Less guns.

 

[shoelyesses]

EXACTLY.
But that is true of everyone.. Let's say everyone has a gun.. How much more likely are simple arguments going to escalate into someone being shot and killed.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/14/justice/florida-music-shooting/index.html
"The violence was sparked by a confrontation about loud music at a gas station, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said. Dunn told authorities that he had asked the teens to turn down the blaring music coming from their vehicle, which was parked next to his as he waited for his girlfriend to return to the car. He heard threats from the teens, Dunn told police, he felt threatened and he thought he saw a gun in the teens' car. He grabbed his gun and fired at least eight shots, authorities said. Davis, among the teens, was killed. No guns were found inside the teens' car, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said."
A quote from Jason Whitlock, who is a horrible columnist, but said something that is profoundly astute.
"That is the message I wish Chiefs players, professional athletes and all of us would focus on Sunday and moving forward. Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it."
All you need is a sane person to have a brief moment of insanity, and there will be a horrible situation.

they already do word to trayvon martin....

It already happens waaay to often with the way things are now... so providing more guns is somehow going to curb this behavior.

 

[True Blues]

Some of you really need to stop relying on anecdotes and generalizations when formulating your arguments.

STRICTER GUN LAWS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH FEWER MURDERS-- NOT JUST AROUND THE WORLD, BUT IN THE UNITED STATES, AS WELL.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center
Homicide

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.

2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.

3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.

4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

via Harvard School of Health

And for the reading averse:

The Geography of Gun Deaths

View media item 174708
And what about gun control? As of July 29 of last year, Arizona became one of only three states that allows its citizens to carry concealed weapons without a permit. Might tighter gun control laws make a difference? Our analysis suggests that they do.

The map overlays the map of firearm deaths above with gun control restrictions by state. It highlights states which have one of three gun control restrictions in place - assault weapons' bans, trigger locks, or safe storage requirements.

Firearm deaths are significantly lower in states with stricter gun control legislation. Though the sample sizes are small, we find substantial negative correlations between firearm deaths and states that ban assault weapons (-.45), require trigger locks (-.42), and mandate safe storage requirements for guns (-.4.

While the causes of individual acts of mass violence always differ, our analysis shows fatal gun violence is less likely to occur in richer states with more post-industrial knowledge economies, higher levels of college graduates, and tighter gun laws. Factors like drug use, stress levels, and mental illness are much less significant than might be assumed.

via Richard Florida, Atlantic

As an important postscript, GUN CONTROL IS NOT A PANACEA. STOP FRAMING IT AS SUCH.

 

[ninjahood]

Is dude REALLY advocating people (teachers/administrators) being strapped in an elementary school? I'm hoping I read his argument wrong...but this is NOT the way to go. At all.

Apparently he won't be happy and or satisfied until every teacher, substitute teacher, and local street crossing guard that helps little kids cross the street riding the bus to school is packing a gun on them.  Not just that but going with his rationale I say why stop there, how bout the guy that rings up your purchase of nachos and popcorn at the movies, how bout the Produce guy that brings out your fresh vegetables and fruit to you at the grocery store, how bout that person that works those small little kiosk's in the middle of malls all across America.  For his sake, maybe we should do a gun giveaway Oprah Winfrey style............"you get a gun, you get a gun, you get a gun...........you get a gun"

pilots in a airplane are now strapped for da same logic

......and guess what champ, those same pilots are TRAINED on how to use a gun given different scenarios.  Big difference.

how do you dismiss da fact that i said it takes courses and training to obtain these weapons, but bring it up here?

tell me something sir

if this was me in da middle of east new york, brooklyn in NYC with my random non descript thick dominican/rican shining wit glaciers on my

neck and wrist. do you really think da NYPD is gonna keep me safe? why can't i have my personal firearm to protect me from anyone that would want to harm

me?

da typical response here would be "what are you doing in that neighborhood looking like that" why does that matter is my answer, i have da right to be where ever i want.

you know what happens when da bad guys get confronted with a good guy with some firepower? they stand da **** down.

 

[deuce king]

how do you dismiss da fact that i said it takes courses and training to obtain these weapons, but bring it up here?

I saw that you brought it up.  I did a quick search on Google and still didn't find an exact number or any at all for how many states REQUIRE training in order to purchase a gun.  Can you please provide the answer or provide a link to the actual number??

if this was me in da middle of east new york, brooklyn in NYC with my random non descript thick dominican/rican shining wit glaciers on my

neck and wrist. do you really think da NYPD is gonna keep me safe?

As a generalization nobody is going to keep you completely safe, things do happen but to answer your vague question I would say no given the timeframe that specific incident occurred.  Given how things and more importantly violence in NYC has decreased alot since then I would say the answer could go either way. 

da typical response here would be "what are you doing in that neighborhood looking like that" why does that matter is my answer, i have da right to be where ever i want

That's all well and good champ.  In that regard, if someone wants to have or hold heat in their home or living quarters, that's one thing. However if and when you or anyone else decides to bring that gun out into the general public that's when it becomes EVERYONE'S issue because anything can happen to anybody with that gun, be it good or bad, and as we have seen in recent years it's been mostly bad.

you know what happens when da bad guys get confronted with a good guy with some firepower? they stand da **** down.

............and you know that champ, using the person and illustration that you used above just like Puffy's character said in the Notorious movie........."We can't change the world unless we change ourselves"  With that being said the mindset of any and everyone should have a gun I think is what needs to change champ.  Or at least a high powered automatic gun for starters.

 

[thepointgod]

if this was me in da middle of east new york, brooklyn in NYC with my random non descript thick dominican/rican shining wit glaciers on my

neck and wrist. do you really think da NYPD is gonna keep me safe? why can't i have my personal firearm to protect me from anyone that would want to harm me?

da typical response here would be "what are you doing in that neighborhood looking like that" why does that matter is my answer, i have da right to be where ever i want.

So part of your reasoning behind gun rights is because you want to be able to parade around dangerous neighborhoods and show off your valuables?

And then blame the NYPD if they don't help you in time if someone runs up on you while you're parading around?

Sounds like your reason for needing a firearm is pure idiocy. You're right though, if the rest of us didn't use any common sense, or wanted to draw attention to ourselves and waltz down the street with stacks of hundreds in our hands, we'd all need guns too.

 

[rashi]

Prescription and illicit drugs kill more people than firearms per year. We should make them illegal.

 

[bkzkurse]

Gun Control is a slippery slope

and maybe it wouldn't change the outcome of what happened


but how come Assault Rifles (Semi Assault Rifles - not sure the correct terminology) - How come their legal in the US?

Why would they even be needed to hunt or to defend oneself? In a situation like that wouldn't you rather use a handgun to defend your home and not.....COD machine killer?


I'm from NYC where none of that is really allowed

 

[thepointgod]

Prescription and illicit drugs kill more people than firearms per year. We should make them illegal.

Prescription drugs used for unprescribed purposes is illegal.

And I don't know if you understand the definition of "illicit." (it means illegal). So yes, illegal drugs are already illegal.

 

[Betonblck]

Prescription and illicit drugs kill more people than firearms per year. We should make them illegal.

2nd stupidest analogy behind the one about banning forks and spoons. When you, Rashi, can take a prescription drug and it can kill 30-50 people, then you make them illegal.

 

[rashi]

2nd stupidest analogy behind the one about banning forks and spoons. When you, Rashi, can take a prescription drug and it can kill 30-50 people, then you make them illegal.

You people are hilarious and still not getting it. Drugs, whether illegal or legal are very highly regulated entities, but yet all those regulations and rules associated with them still kill a whole bunch of people. More than the firearms you want to prevent people from getting.

And I don't know if you understand the definition of "illicit." (it means illegal). So yes, illegal drugs are already illegal.

Exactly, and it was a joke.It's illegal and still kills almost as much people as firearms, but...it's ILLEGAL. Don't you guys understand that these laws won't prevent a psychopath or a determined emotionally disturbed person from doing something like this. Problem is that most of you are using your emotion get in the way of rational thinking.

 

[True Blues]

2nd stupidest analogy behind the one about banning forks and spoons. When you, Rashi, can take a prescription drug and it can kill 30-50 people, then you make them illegal.

You people are hilarious and still not getting it. Drugs, whether illegal or legal are very highly regulated entities, but yet all those regulations and rules associated with them still kill a whole bunch of people. More than the firearms you want to prevent people from getting.

And I don't know if you understand the definition of "illicit." (it means illegal). So yes, illegal drugs are already illegal.

Exactly, and it was a joke.It's illegal and still kills almost as much people as firearms, but...it's ILLEGAL. Don't you guys understand that these laws won't prevent a psychopath or a determined emotionally disturbed person from doing something like this. Problem is that most of you are using your emotion get in the way of rational thinking.

Rational thinking is observing the evidence that gun control laws help curb gun-related homicides and acting accordingly.

 

[sundoobie]

you know what happens when da bad guys get confronted with a good guy with some firepower? they stand da **** down.

Yes sir!

 

[thepointgod]

Yes sir!

Or both parties start shooting at each other and injure other bystanders in the process.