Geography and Culture Can Be More Important than Religion.

[rexanglorum]

.A liberal Pakistani was attacked by Muslim extremists as retaliation for his views on Pakistan's harsh laws against free speech leveled against those who speak ill of Islam. Waht we must remember is that The Taliban extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Northern India are from a proud, easily provoked warrior people, the Pashtuns, who were violent and unruly before they had adopted Islam in the 13th and 14th centuries.

It is shame that liberaral, who supported religious pluralism, was attacked. However, in that part of the world, what initially would appear to be religious in nature is muchm ore secular. Honor is paramount among the Pashtuns and for the average Pashtun, those things that are Western are associated with colonialism, exploitation, a loss of honor. The same view is taken towards the the same view is taken by Pashtuns in Afghanistan (the reason they can skirt across the border of both countries is because they are the same people, the Af-Pak border is seen by them as arbitrary and Western).

The Pashtuns and others in that part of the World are victims of geographical isolation and their societies were untouched or nearly untouched by classical Persian, Arab, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Indian or any part of the European age of Enlightenment. Geography and culture are much greater causes of the current state of affairs in Afghanistan and Pakistan than religion.





I accidently posted a reply to thread that is now locked (it must have been locked while I was typing). I may as well keep this reply up as its own post though.

  

 

[rexanglorum]

.A liberal Pakistani was attacked by Muslim extremists as retaliation for his views on Pakistan's harsh laws against free speech leveled against those who speak ill of Islam. Waht we must remember is that The Taliban extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Northern India are from a proud, easily provoked warrior people, the Pashtuns, who were violent and unruly before they had adopted Islam in the 13th and 14th centuries.

It is shame that liberaral, who supported religious pluralism, was attacked. However, in that part of the world, what initially would appear to be religious in nature is muchm ore secular. Honor is paramount among the Pashtuns and for the average Pashtun, those things that are Western are associated with colonialism, exploitation, a loss of honor. The same view is taken towards the the same view is taken by Pashtuns in Afghanistan (the reason they can skirt across the border of both countries is because they are the same people, the Af-Pak border is seen by them as arbitrary and Western).

The Pashtuns and others in that part of the World are victims of geographical isolation and their societies were untouched or nearly untouched by classical Persian, Arab, Greek, Roman, Chinese, Indian or any part of the European age of Enlightenment. Geography and culture are much greater causes of the current state of affairs in Afghanistan and Pakistan than religion.





I accidently posted a reply to thread that is now locked (it must have been locked while I was typing). I may as well keep this reply up as its own post though.

  

 

[air bonilla 23]

Guns Germs And Steel

 

[air bonilla 23]

Guns Germs And Steel

 

[its that dude]

Topic:

 

[its that dude]

Topic:

 

[its that dude]

Wasn't this assassination mainly because of of the Governor's liberal views on Pakistan's blasphemy laws? It is because of religion. It doesn't matter to me if they have held their beliefs for a long time or where they live. It doesn't excuse them.

It sounds like arrogance and self-righteousness to me.  It is because of religion, specifically Islam, that this man has died. There's no refuting that.

 

[its that dude]

Wasn't this assassination mainly because of of the Governor's liberal views on Pakistan's blasphemy laws? It is because of religion. It doesn't matter to me if they have held their beliefs for a long time or where they live. It doesn't excuse them.

It sounds like arrogance and self-righteousness to me.  It is because of religion, specifically Islam, that this man has died. There's no refuting that.

 

[rexanglorum]

Originally Posted by Air Bonilla 23

Guns Germs And Steel

That is probably the most important book about the history of man, before circa AD 1500, ever written. Among other things, it shows how magnificant the civilizations of West Africa and MesoAmerica and even Polynesia were because they achieved so much outside of the Eurasian exchange of ideas.

 

[rexanglorum]

Originally Posted by Air Bonilla 23

Guns Germs And Steel

That is probably the most important book about the history of man, before circa AD 1500, ever written. Among other things, it shows how magnificant the civilizations of West Africa and MesoAmerica and even Polynesia were because they achieved so much outside of the Eurasian exchange of ideas.

 

[air bonilla 23]

I had to read that book in 10th, 12th and my third semester of College...

 

[air bonilla 23]

I had to read that book in 10th, 12th and my third semester of College...

 

[its that dude]

I saw the documentary.

and to add....  This wasn't supported by only a few, select extremists.  From what I can tell in the video, there is a sizeable support for it from the Muslim population in Pakistan.

 

[its that dude]

I saw the documentary.

and to add....  This wasn't supported by only a few, select extremists.  From what I can tell in the video, there is a sizeable support for it from the Muslim population in Pakistan.

 

[its that dude]

Clerics salute 'brave' Pakistan killer


[h1][/h1]

[h1]Clerics salute 'brave' Pakistan killer [/h1][h2]Hundreds of Pakistan's religious leaders have publically applauded the murder of a prominent politician gunned down because of his campaign to reform the country's blasphemy laws. [/h2]

Mumtaz Qadri, left, is embraced as he arrives at a court in Islamabad Photo: EPA


By Rob Crilly, Islamabad4:27PM GMT 05 Jan 2011

In a statement released hours before the funeral of Salman Taseer, a liberal politician close President Asif Ali Zardari, 500 scholars from the Jamaat-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat group praised his assassin and ordered their followers not to grieve or they would suffer the same fate.

"We pay rich tributes and salute the bravery, valour and faith of Mumtaz Qadri," the statement said referring to the man now in police custody, before going on to warn politicians and academics to learn lessons from Mr Taseer's death.

"Also, there should be no expression of grief or sympathy on the death of the governor, as those who support blasphemy of the Prophet are themselves indulging in blasphemy."

Mr Taseer, the governor of Punjab, was shot dead in Islamabad on Tuesday by a member of his own protection detail.

He had become a hate figure among hard-line clerics for taking on the case of Asia Bibi, a Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy, an issue that has illustrated the country's deep religious divide between a small, liberal elite and conservative mullahs who draw huge followings.

Jamaat-e-Islami, one of Pakistan's main Islamist political parties, also said Mr Taseer's assassination was justified. "If the government had removed him from the governorship, there wouldn't have been the need for someone to shoot him," it said in a statement.

Qadri said after his arrest that he had shot the Punjab governor for his views: "Salman Taseer is a blasphemer and this is the punishment for a blasphemer."

Pictures of his smiling face dominated the local newspapers, which questioned why five other police protection officers allowed him to pump 40 bullets into Mr Taseer's body.

Police sources also claimed that Qadri had previously been identified as a security risk because of his extremist religious views. Qadri was taken to court yesterday for a brief appearance and supporters threw rose petals, and shouted Allahu Akbar – God is the greatest – at the armoured police vehicle carrying him.

Meanwhile, thousands of mourners gathered amid tight security for Mr Taseer's burial in the Punjabi capital Lahore.

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, joined international condemnation of the killing.

"I'm appalled by the assassination of Salman Taseer who was an internationally respected figure and someone who regularly spoke out against extremism," he said.

No, it's not only a few extremists.

 

[its that dude]

Clerics salute 'brave' Pakistan killer


[h1][/h1]

[h1]Clerics salute 'brave' Pakistan killer [/h1][h2]Hundreds of Pakistan's religious leaders have publically applauded the murder of a prominent politician gunned down because of his campaign to reform the country's blasphemy laws. [/h2]

Mumtaz Qadri, left, is embraced as he arrives at a court in Islamabad Photo: EPA


By Rob Crilly, Islamabad4:27PM GMT 05 Jan 2011

In a statement released hours before the funeral of Salman Taseer, a liberal politician close President Asif Ali Zardari, 500 scholars from the Jamaat-e-Ahl-e-Sunnat group praised his assassin and ordered their followers not to grieve or they would suffer the same fate.

"We pay rich tributes and salute the bravery, valour and faith of Mumtaz Qadri," the statement said referring to the man now in police custody, before going on to warn politicians and academics to learn lessons from Mr Taseer's death.

"Also, there should be no expression of grief or sympathy on the death of the governor, as those who support blasphemy of the Prophet are themselves indulging in blasphemy."

Mr Taseer, the governor of Punjab, was shot dead in Islamabad on Tuesday by a member of his own protection detail.

He had become a hate figure among hard-line clerics for taking on the case of Asia Bibi, a Christian woman sentenced to death for blasphemy, an issue that has illustrated the country's deep religious divide between a small, liberal elite and conservative mullahs who draw huge followings.

Jamaat-e-Islami, one of Pakistan's main Islamist political parties, also said Mr Taseer's assassination was justified. "If the government had removed him from the governorship, there wouldn't have been the need for someone to shoot him," it said in a statement.

Qadri said after his arrest that he had shot the Punjab governor for his views: "Salman Taseer is a blasphemer and this is the punishment for a blasphemer."

Pictures of his smiling face dominated the local newspapers, which questioned why five other police protection officers allowed him to pump 40 bullets into Mr Taseer's body.

Police sources also claimed that Qadri had previously been identified as a security risk because of his extremist religious views. Qadri was taken to court yesterday for a brief appearance and supporters threw rose petals, and shouted Allahu Akbar – God is the greatest – at the armoured police vehicle carrying him.

Meanwhile, thousands of mourners gathered amid tight security for Mr Taseer's burial in the Punjabi capital Lahore.

William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, joined international condemnation of the killing.

"I'm appalled by the assassination of Salman Taseer who was an internationally respected figure and someone who regularly spoke out against extremism," he said.

No, it's not only a few extremists.

 

[budweiser]

You can't forget class, though.

 

[budweiser]

You can't forget class, though.

 

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by Air Bonilla 23

Guns Germs And Steel

/ Thread.

 

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by Air Bonilla 23

Guns Germs And Steel

/ Thread.

 

[luckyp90]

Religion has a huge influence on culture though, and even vice versa. Hard to measure something like that but i agree, culture is probably a bigger force then religion. Culture is basically what a society is, along with what it is independently culture also consumes some of the effects religion has on a society. So some of the things religion effected would still be accredited to culture.

idk if im misunderstanding your post though.

 

[luckyp90]

Religion has a huge influence on culture though, and even vice versa. Hard to measure something like that but i agree, culture is probably a bigger force then religion. Culture is basically what a society is, along with what it is independently culture also consumes some of the effects religion has on a society. So some of the things religion effected would still be accredited to culture.

idk if im misunderstanding your post though.

 

[sn00pee]

Killing people in the name of religion?

 

[sn00pee]

Killing people in the name of religion?