Glenn Beck.

[38816]

Originally Posted by DMV is RNB

OP expresses himself like he's 10

i'd LOVE to see a 10 year old who expresses himself like me...

  

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by DMV is RNB

OP expresses himself like he's 10

i'd LOVE to see a 10 year old who expresses himself like me...

  

 

[tmay407]

I'm going to put this in a spoiler to keep the page from getting too long. Maybe not. I can't get it to work.

hmmm, see, you attribute that to their personalities

Where did I ever say anything about personality?

she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D.

So she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D? People without a Ph.D couldn't possibly make logical arguments. Why did I receive an A in my Argumentation and Debate class? I don't have a Ph.D, so I couldn't have possibly been able to make logical arguments. Do you have a Ph.D? Do you feel like you're making logical arguments?

I know plenty of people who don't possess a Ph.D but can act and debate/argue in a very civil manner. I also know of a few people who possess a Ph.D and act like total clowns. In my experiences, I haven't found any kind of solid relationship between the way someone acts and their level of education.

you think glenn beck COULD form his arguments this way, if he TRUELY wanted to?

Honestly? Yes, I do. But he has a shtick that, rather unfortunately, has proven to be successful for him. Why go away from what has been shown to work for him?

where is this ALWAYS?

I think I'm missing what you're asking. I think I know, but will you ask that again?

I'm not even going to get into it with you over college rankings. On top of the fact that I don't really agree with ranking colleges to the extent that they are today, I don't follow those rankings anymore. That's not to say that I'm not well aware of which schools are better than others. I just don't follow school rankings.

well, what trade does your father operate in?

I figure I'll tell you just to entertain you. He's a Business Development Representative for Benjamin Moore. He's also in charge of developing employee training programs and managing several District Sales Reps.

I'm not sure if you skipped over it when you read my original post, so I'll say it again. I agree with you that education is becoming more and more important in society today. But when I graduate in May, I don't expect to go out into the real world with my B.B.A. in Finance and obtain a job over somebody that may or may not have a degree, but has five or 10 years of real work experience. Of course I'm confident enough in my abilities to know that I'd be just as good of an employee as my experienced counterpart, but with the economy as it is right now, I don't expect to be picked over somebody with real experience. Which brings me back to what I said earlier. Education is very important, but so is experience. This goes out the window if you're talking about someone who possesses a Ph.D.

look, bottom 1% is bottom 1%

I certainly agree with you on that, and McCain's class rank is pretty inexcusable. But if we're being fair, it wasn't for a lack of intelligence. I'll just leave it at that since you've said that you don't want to talk about it anymore.

don't worry, it doesnt take ANYTHING away from my argument at all...

Like I already said, it doesn't take anything away. I'm not sure why you're taking that so personal.

lol, how do you even make that claim....

"i like the way maddow forms her arguments, but i dont attribute that to her education.....i attribute it to her personality"

that doesnt even sound halfway logical, sir.

Again, where did I ever say anything about personality?

I'm not trying to engage in a

or

contest with you. I just posted my thoughts to contrast yours, as I thought you had some interesting views on the topic. I agree with you that the education gap is shocking and somewhat laughable. But in my viewing experiences, the education of the host isn't what makes me watch or not watch the show. With the roles of research teams and scripts in planning talk shows, education doesn't play as big of a part in my opinion. It's different when the host has someone on for an interview, as those moments can turn unscripted and become much more of an intellectual debate. It's very impressive and very respectable that Maddow has a Ph.D in what she talks about. But for the most part, I don't think education is as important in a profession that is as opinionated as talk shows. For some people like you, it may be. But for me, it's not. Again, that's just my view.

To cguy:

So if you had to hire someone, you would just pick names out of a hat?

If you needed work done on your house you would hire just anybody and let them in your house? You'd let anybody cut your hair?

When you start talking about technical jobs, of course credentials matter. I would argue that for something as opinionated as talk radio, credentials don't matter near as much. Do you watch sports? What do you do when analysts and broadcasters that never played the sport start talking? What credentials do they necessarily have to speak on the subject?

 

[tmay407]

I'm going to put this in a spoiler to keep the page from getting too long. Maybe not. I can't get it to work.

hmmm, see, you attribute that to their personalities

Where did I ever say anything about personality?

she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D.

So she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D? People without a Ph.D couldn't possibly make logical arguments. Why did I receive an A in my Argumentation and Debate class? I don't have a Ph.D, so I couldn't have possibly been able to make logical arguments. Do you have a Ph.D? Do you feel like you're making logical arguments?

I know plenty of people who don't possess a Ph.D but can act and debate/argue in a very civil manner. I also know of a few people who possess a Ph.D and act like total clowns. In my experiences, I haven't found any kind of solid relationship between the way someone acts and their level of education.

you think glenn beck COULD form his arguments this way, if he TRUELY wanted to?

Honestly? Yes, I do. But he has a shtick that, rather unfortunately, has proven to be successful for him. Why go away from what has been shown to work for him?

where is this ALWAYS?

I think I'm missing what you're asking. I think I know, but will you ask that again?

I'm not even going to get into it with you over college rankings. On top of the fact that I don't really agree with ranking colleges to the extent that they are today, I don't follow those rankings anymore. That's not to say that I'm not well aware of which schools are better than others. I just don't follow school rankings.

well, what trade does your father operate in?

I figure I'll tell you just to entertain you. He's a Business Development Representative for Benjamin Moore. He's also in charge of developing employee training programs and managing several District Sales Reps.

I'm not sure if you skipped over it when you read my original post, so I'll say it again. I agree with you that education is becoming more and more important in society today. But when I graduate in May, I don't expect to go out into the real world with my B.B.A. in Finance and obtain a job over somebody that may or may not have a degree, but has five or 10 years of real work experience. Of course I'm confident enough in my abilities to know that I'd be just as good of an employee as my experienced counterpart, but with the economy as it is right now, I don't expect to be picked over somebody with real experience. Which brings me back to what I said earlier. Education is very important, but so is experience. This goes out the window if you're talking about someone who possesses a Ph.D.

look, bottom 1% is bottom 1%

I certainly agree with you on that, and McCain's class rank is pretty inexcusable. But if we're being fair, it wasn't for a lack of intelligence. I'll just leave it at that since you've said that you don't want to talk about it anymore.

don't worry, it doesnt take ANYTHING away from my argument at all...

Like I already said, it doesn't take anything away. I'm not sure why you're taking that so personal.

lol, how do you even make that claim....

"i like the way maddow forms her arguments, but i dont attribute that to her education.....i attribute it to her personality"

that doesnt even sound halfway logical, sir.

Again, where did I ever say anything about personality?

I'm not trying to engage in a

or

contest with you. I just posted my thoughts to contrast yours, as I thought you had some interesting views on the topic. I agree with you that the education gap is shocking and somewhat laughable. But in my viewing experiences, the education of the host isn't what makes me watch or not watch the show. With the roles of research teams and scripts in planning talk shows, education doesn't play as big of a part in my opinion. It's different when the host has someone on for an interview, as those moments can turn unscripted and become much more of an intellectual debate. It's very impressive and very respectable that Maddow has a Ph.D in what she talks about. But for the most part, I don't think education is as important in a profession that is as opinionated as talk shows. For some people like you, it may be. But for me, it's not. Again, that's just my view.

To cguy:

So if you had to hire someone, you would just pick names out of a hat?

If you needed work done on your house you would hire just anybody and let them in your house? You'd let anybody cut your hair?

When you start talking about technical jobs, of course credentials matter. I would argue that for something as opinionated as talk radio, credentials don't matter near as much. Do you watch sports? What do you do when analysts and broadcasters that never played the sport start talking? What credentials do they necessarily have to speak on the subject?

 

[rexanglorum]

I can really see now that the OP is definitely a public employee and is most likely a public school teacher, who evaluates an undertaking based on the inputs and not the outputs. In most school districts you can be a bad teacher and if you get a masters in education, you get paid more, even if you keep on turning out children who cannot read and write anywhere near grade level. Naturally that mentality would apply to the nation's top public employee.

Erratic growth, rapidly expanding deficits and persistently high unemployment be damned, the President was editor of the Harvard Law Review back in 1990 and that is all that matters in the eyes of some.

 

[rexanglorum]

I can really see now that the OP is definitely a public employee and is most likely a public school teacher, who evaluates an undertaking based on the inputs and not the outputs. In most school districts you can be a bad teacher and if you get a masters in education, you get paid more, even if you keep on turning out children who cannot read and write anywhere near grade level. Naturally that mentality would apply to the nation's top public employee.

Erratic growth, rapidly expanding deficits and persistently high unemployment be damned, the President was editor of the Harvard Law Review back in 1990 and that is all that matters in the eyes of some.

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

I can really see now that the OP is definitely a public employee and is most likely a public school teacher, who evaluates an undertaking based on the inputs and not the outputs. In most school districts you can be a bad teacher and if you get a masters in education, you get paid more, even if you keep on turning out children who cannot read and write anywhere near grade level. Naturally that mentality would apply to the nation's top public employee.

Erratic growth, rapidly expanding deficits and persistently high unemployment be damned, the President was editor of the Harvard Law Review back in 1990 and that is all that matters in the eyes of some.

So she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D? People without a Ph.D couldn't possibly make logical arguments. Why did I receive an A in my Argumentation and Debate class? I don't have a Ph.D, so I couldn't have possibly been able to make logical arguments. Do you have a Ph.D? Do you feel like you're making logical arguments

you seem to be the one taking things personal because i quoted you. relax.




i dont see how you made the assumption that she could ONLY make a LOGICAL argument IF she had a ph.d. when i said i attribute the logical progression she uses when arguing that YOU ADMIRE to her ph.d.




these arguments are answering my original question, why americans are so anti-education...




its SOOOOOOO far fetched to attribute her HIGHER level of LOGICAL ARGUING to EDUCATION rather than.....her?




i mean, if it isnt from her education, why does she present her arguments so logically and with such intelligence?




you tell me, man....




you prolly shoulda did spoilers, cause that was OD, and makes me think you took me quoting you personally.

"i cant find a correlation between the way someone acts and their level of education"

, okay, guy.



























when did he present the logical schtick for it NOT to work for him?













experience does make up for a lack of education, TO A DEGREE




you wouldnt be salty if some dude with a GED but 5 years of experience in your field gets picked over you?




so 5 years of experience overrides your Cornell degree?

YOURE saying this, NOT me...

 

[38816]

Originally Posted by Rexanglorum

I can really see now that the OP is definitely a public employee and is most likely a public school teacher, who evaluates an undertaking based on the inputs and not the outputs. In most school districts you can be a bad teacher and if you get a masters in education, you get paid more, even if you keep on turning out children who cannot read and write anywhere near grade level. Naturally that mentality would apply to the nation's top public employee.

Erratic growth, rapidly expanding deficits and persistently high unemployment be damned, the President was editor of the Harvard Law Review back in 1990 and that is all that matters in the eyes of some.

So she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D? People without a Ph.D couldn't possibly make logical arguments. Why did I receive an A in my Argumentation and Debate class? I don't have a Ph.D, so I couldn't have possibly been able to make logical arguments. Do you have a Ph.D? Do you feel like you're making logical arguments

you seem to be the one taking things personal because i quoted you. relax.




i dont see how you made the assumption that she could ONLY make a LOGICAL argument IF she had a ph.d. when i said i attribute the logical progression she uses when arguing that YOU ADMIRE to her ph.d.




these arguments are answering my original question, why americans are so anti-education...




its SOOOOOOO far fetched to attribute her HIGHER level of LOGICAL ARGUING to EDUCATION rather than.....her?




i mean, if it isnt from her education, why does she present her arguments so logically and with such intelligence?




you tell me, man....




you prolly shoulda did spoilers, cause that was OD, and makes me think you took me quoting you personally.

"i cant find a correlation between the way someone acts and their level of education"

, okay, guy.



























when did he present the logical schtick for it NOT to work for him?













experience does make up for a lack of education, TO A DEGREE




you wouldnt be salty if some dude with a GED but 5 years of experience in your field gets picked over you?




so 5 years of experience overrides your Cornell degree?

YOURE saying this, NOT me...

 

[tmay407]

i dont see how you made the assumption that she could ONLY make a LOGICAL argument IF she had a ph.d. when i said i attribute the logical progression she uses when arguing that YOU ADMIRE to her ph.d.

You said this:

she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D.

That's a direct quote from you. That's not me rearranging what you said in order to try make my own point.

I can see where you're heading in your thought process, I just think it's a gross generalization.

these arguments are answering my original question, why americans are so anti-education...

Please explain.

its SOOOOOOO far fetched to attribute her HIGHER level of LOGICAL ARGUING to EDUCATION rather than.....her?

I don't believe I ever once said it was farfetched. I just said that I don't believe her ability to make sound arguments is completely due to her education. There's a vast difference.

i mean, if it isnt from her education, why does she present her arguments so logically and with such intelligence?

It could be from a multitude of factors. You've mentioned two already, intelligence and personality. I'm basing this off of my 22 years of life experience since I haven't been able to find any research on the topic. In my experiences, I haven't found anything that makes me believe that education is the sole factor responsible for logical arguments. Like I said, I've met many "uneducated" people that can argue soundly. I've met many "educated" people that couldn't. Maybe you've had different experiences than I have, which leads you to believe differently. I don't know.

, okay, guy.

Again, like I said in the previous post...that's based on my 22 years of experience. Maybe you've had different experiences that lead you to believe differently. I don't know.

when did he present the logical schtick for it NOT to work for him?

Why would he need to? He started with the in-your-face fear mongering shtick and it worked perfectly for him. Why fix what not's broken?

experience does make up for a lack of education, TO A DEGREE

you wouldnt be salty if some dude with a GED but 5 years of experience in your field gets picked over you?

so 5 years of experience overrides your Cornell degree?

I should have clarified the "to an extent" point in original post. Someone fresh out of Harvard or Cornell will most likely get the nod over someone with a GED and five years of experience. But not everybody goes to an Ivy League school. I go to Texas A&M, by the way.

Of course I'd be upset if someone with a GED and five years of experience got the job over me, but I'd understand. Like I said, I'm confident in my abilities, but that doesn't mean that employers want to risk potential (recent grad) for something that maybe could be considered a sure thing (guy with work experience) with the economy like it is.

...

Me replying to you has nothing to do with me taking anything personal. I'm just trying to engage in civil discourse with someone that has slightly differing views.

*Waits for reply with laughing emoticons.*

 

[tmay407]

i dont see how you made the assumption that she could ONLY make a LOGICAL argument IF she had a ph.d. when i said i attribute the logical progression she uses when arguing that YOU ADMIRE to her ph.d.

You said this:

she only presents her arguments in a LOGICAL manner because she holds a Ph.D.

That's a direct quote from you. That's not me rearranging what you said in order to try make my own point.

I can see where you're heading in your thought process, I just think it's a gross generalization.

these arguments are answering my original question, why americans are so anti-education...

Please explain.

its SOOOOOOO far fetched to attribute her HIGHER level of LOGICAL ARGUING to EDUCATION rather than.....her?

I don't believe I ever once said it was farfetched. I just said that I don't believe her ability to make sound arguments is completely due to her education. There's a vast difference.

i mean, if it isnt from her education, why does she present her arguments so logically and with such intelligence?

It could be from a multitude of factors. You've mentioned two already, intelligence and personality. I'm basing this off of my 22 years of life experience since I haven't been able to find any research on the topic. In my experiences, I haven't found anything that makes me believe that education is the sole factor responsible for logical arguments. Like I said, I've met many "uneducated" people that can argue soundly. I've met many "educated" people that couldn't. Maybe you've had different experiences than I have, which leads you to believe differently. I don't know.

, okay, guy.

Again, like I said in the previous post...that's based on my 22 years of experience. Maybe you've had different experiences that lead you to believe differently. I don't know.

when did he present the logical schtick for it NOT to work for him?

Why would he need to? He started with the in-your-face fear mongering shtick and it worked perfectly for him. Why fix what not's broken?

experience does make up for a lack of education, TO A DEGREE

you wouldnt be salty if some dude with a GED but 5 years of experience in your field gets picked over you?

so 5 years of experience overrides your Cornell degree?

I should have clarified the "to an extent" point in original post. Someone fresh out of Harvard or Cornell will most likely get the nod over someone with a GED and five years of experience. But not everybody goes to an Ivy League school. I go to Texas A&M, by the way.

Of course I'd be upset if someone with a GED and five years of experience got the job over me, but I'd understand. Like I said, I'm confident in my abilities, but that doesn't mean that employers want to risk potential (recent grad) for something that maybe could be considered a sure thing (guy with work experience) with the economy like it is.

...

Me replying to you has nothing to do with me taking anything personal. I'm just trying to engage in civil discourse with someone that has slightly differing views.

*Waits for reply with laughing emoticons.*

 

[38816]

eh, you quoted sentence by sentence, hence, invested too much into my statements.

the use of only was a mistake. however, i STILL attribute the quality of arguments to her education. Sure, there are other factors that go into the person Rachel Maddow, but a majority of it is education....

you're downplaying the importance of education.

you think going to school from the age of 5 to your late 20s doesnt mold you somehow?

she has a Ph.D......its not like im saying 4 years in high school molded her...

she has spent a majority of her life learning and being educated...

she's spent more time being educated than anything else in her life...

therefore, imma attribute it to her education....

id even attribute her PERSONALITY to her education...

she was in school, learning, more than she was even around her parents and friends...

i just find it weird that you have an aprehension to attribute her INTELLECT to EDUCATION

OF COURSE there are exceptions to general statements...NOT EVERYONE with a DEGREE is intelligent...

but more often than not, someone with a ph.d. is going to be mentally superior to someone who didnt even go to college....

 I just said that I don't believe her ability to make sound arguments is completely due to her education.

nor do i, which is why the "only" was a mistake made when trying to make REAL statements...

the more doubt you leave in statements, the less effective a statement it is.

i didnt mean that her education EXCLUSIVELY is why she argues like that, but id be comfortable saying its 90% of the reason...i am confident had she been a high school dropout, like glenn beck, she would be unable to argue and have AS intelligent thoughts as she has now....

SHE HOLDS A PH.D......lol

i also think youre copping out on the whole glenn beck thing...

first, you said, "i think he COULD make as intelligent and logical arguments as maddow, but he's found a schtick that works"

well, you have faith in glenn beck, then.....

faith that that intellect and logic ACTUALLY EXISTS

cause i sure havent ever seen it....

you said yourself "why fix what isnt broken?"

so he's never actually SHOWN us this intellect, right?

right.



explain how the arguments im getting into show America's stance toward education?

you're telling me, in this post, due to your life experiences, education is minor in shaping one's mind...

when im 100 percent confident, if rachel maddow had the education of glenn beck, she'd be just as moronic, obnoxious, illogical and petty as glenn beck is.

the REASON why her arguments are so sound, intelligent and logical is because she is educated. if she were uneducated, she would not make as intelligent, sound, logical arguments....

im confident in that.

no experience is going to give you Ph.D.-level education....

It could be from a multitude of factors.

that's a weak answer. you wont answer the question. i give MY answer to the question, and you say "thats not right. youre wrong. its not JUST that..."

"so what is it then?"

"im not sure. it could be many things"

thats a weak answer.

how about this, if not education, what would you MOST attribute her intellect to?

god?

also, you told me you got an A in your argument CLASS

you think someone random, off the street, with basic high school education could go into your class on the last final day and ace the final? could THEY get an A, too? i highly doubt that. infact, i'd say the reason you got an A in your class is because you ARE educated....educated in that specific class, and your overall education since before you could say the alphabet....

education molds you.

much moreso than other factors....IF youre being educated...

i guess the reverse would be NOT being educated can mold you too, hence the "hood" and why failing schools keep failing....

before the age of 18, you're in a classroom more often than anywhere else....

how could that NOT be the biggest factor in molding you?

i attribute every aspect of my being to my education, in school or out of school, formal or informal, book or street, the way i think from second to second is MOST influenced by what i've learned during my 26 years on the planet...

my personality is how it is because of what i've learned and experienced....

you think your personality as a toddler is still your personality today?

you think a 6 year old, who just learned to speak, can form logical, intelligent arguments?

no. you know why? they havent learned how to yet....

not to say they cant THINK logically, they just arent educated enough to form arguments, right?

 

[38816]

eh, you quoted sentence by sentence, hence, invested too much into my statements.

the use of only was a mistake. however, i STILL attribute the quality of arguments to her education. Sure, there are other factors that go into the person Rachel Maddow, but a majority of it is education....

you're downplaying the importance of education.

you think going to school from the age of 5 to your late 20s doesnt mold you somehow?

she has a Ph.D......its not like im saying 4 years in high school molded her...

she has spent a majority of her life learning and being educated...

she's spent more time being educated than anything else in her life...

therefore, imma attribute it to her education....

id even attribute her PERSONALITY to her education...

she was in school, learning, more than she was even around her parents and friends...

i just find it weird that you have an aprehension to attribute her INTELLECT to EDUCATION

OF COURSE there are exceptions to general statements...NOT EVERYONE with a DEGREE is intelligent...

but more often than not, someone with a ph.d. is going to be mentally superior to someone who didnt even go to college....

 I just said that I don't believe her ability to make sound arguments is completely due to her education.

nor do i, which is why the "only" was a mistake made when trying to make REAL statements...

the more doubt you leave in statements, the less effective a statement it is.

i didnt mean that her education EXCLUSIVELY is why she argues like that, but id be comfortable saying its 90% of the reason...i am confident had she been a high school dropout, like glenn beck, she would be unable to argue and have AS intelligent thoughts as she has now....

SHE HOLDS A PH.D......lol

i also think youre copping out on the whole glenn beck thing...

first, you said, "i think he COULD make as intelligent and logical arguments as maddow, but he's found a schtick that works"

well, you have faith in glenn beck, then.....

faith that that intellect and logic ACTUALLY EXISTS

cause i sure havent ever seen it....

you said yourself "why fix what isnt broken?"

so he's never actually SHOWN us this intellect, right?

right.



explain how the arguments im getting into show America's stance toward education?

you're telling me, in this post, due to your life experiences, education is minor in shaping one's mind...

when im 100 percent confident, if rachel maddow had the education of glenn beck, she'd be just as moronic, obnoxious, illogical and petty as glenn beck is.

the REASON why her arguments are so sound, intelligent and logical is because she is educated. if she were uneducated, she would not make as intelligent, sound, logical arguments....

im confident in that.

no experience is going to give you Ph.D.-level education....

It could be from a multitude of factors.

that's a weak answer. you wont answer the question. i give MY answer to the question, and you say "thats not right. youre wrong. its not JUST that..."

"so what is it then?"

"im not sure. it could be many things"

thats a weak answer.

how about this, if not education, what would you MOST attribute her intellect to?

god?

also, you told me you got an A in your argument CLASS

you think someone random, off the street, with basic high school education could go into your class on the last final day and ace the final? could THEY get an A, too? i highly doubt that. infact, i'd say the reason you got an A in your class is because you ARE educated....educated in that specific class, and your overall education since before you could say the alphabet....

education molds you.

much moreso than other factors....IF youre being educated...

i guess the reverse would be NOT being educated can mold you too, hence the "hood" and why failing schools keep failing....

before the age of 18, you're in a classroom more often than anywhere else....

how could that NOT be the biggest factor in molding you?

i attribute every aspect of my being to my education, in school or out of school, formal or informal, book or street, the way i think from second to second is MOST influenced by what i've learned during my 26 years on the planet...

my personality is how it is because of what i've learned and experienced....

you think your personality as a toddler is still your personality today?

you think a 6 year old, who just learned to speak, can form logical, intelligent arguments?

no. you know why? they havent learned how to yet....

not to say they cant THINK logically, they just arent educated enough to form arguments, right?