GRADUATE STUDENTS OF NT

[b smooth 202]

throughout all of the schooling their is still a huge failure to think critically amongst students...Im not sure why this generation is so sheepish..

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

throughout all of the schooling their is still a huge failure to think critically amongst students...Im not sure why this generation is so sheepish..

[COLOR=#red]It's the ole "Last Great Generation" syndrome popping up again. That's when a preceding generation looks at the current generation with disdain, making comments such as "this new generation just doesn't have a clue." [/COLOR]

 

[smokey1212]

phd in 3 years?!? what? i thought most people these days dont get one until after ~6 years. congrats though
i really enjoy research (have been doing it full-time as an RA for the past 4 years), but i feel like without a phd, i can't get very far up the ladder and any ideas i throw out often get looked over. so naturally i looked into phd programs. but after having spoken to several scientists in both academia and the industry, i've now changed my career path towards healthcare.
reason 1 is because you really dont know when you'll earn that phd. i know of several scientists who spent 8 years in school :x it seems a lot depends on your PI sponsor and luck on whether your experiments work or not. i'd rather have a set curriculum and be done with school in 4 years as with most health schools.
reason 2, if i were to jump into academia, chances are that i will be alotting a good chunk of time writing grants and stressing over funding. no thanks.
reason 3, if i were to jump into the industry in a small biotech, resources are always limited. the small biotech you're employed by might not be able to afford potentially important experiment/equipment. limiting science due to budget sounds awful.
reason 4, if i were to jump into the industry in a large biotech, resources are abundant, but pink slips can be handed out in the snap of a (exectuive's) finger and without warning. this seems to happen every day.
reason 5, if i were to jump into the health profession, i can set up my own shop and run the damn thang like a real bawse.
thoughts are welcome from all!

Sounds like you got a good grasp on it all. I work at an institute in the Bay that has a joint program with the University of Manchester in England. If you ever think about a PhD, consider a British one, I would have absolutely never done a PhD here in the US, mostly because like you said, most people take 5-7 years, and at the time I couldn't spend that much time doing something I wasn't sure I wanted to do. The British program is ~3 years. That is they want you to finish in 3 years, and if you need they'll give you a 4th, but that's a hard deadline. If you don't finish in 4 they will kick you out with a masters in philosophy :x . Hence, it's an accelerated program in Britain. No rotations, few courses, no publications necessary to graduation, just pick a lab and start doing science. It will save you at least 1 year on an American PhD, but more likely it will save you 3-4 years.

I'll address some of you points:
Reason 1: This is true. Some PIs will jerk you around and keep you as long as they can. Experiments will succeed and fail and there are tons of highs and lows and you should always tack on extra 3-12 months on when you "think" you'll be done. You have to be smart in picking your PI/mentor before you join a lab, ask what kind of person he is, will he support you in your career moves, will he try to make you stay for 7 years if experiments just aren't working out. One Post-Doc in my lab told his PI when he started: "I'm going to clone this gene, characterize it, then I'm out." They made a deal, and he was out in 4 years, which is really tough here in the US. Also, when picking a PI, there are good and bad reasons for picking a superstar in the field. A superstar will get you a great publication record but you may never talk to him, a small lab with a just-starting PI will give you hands on training and possibly some micromanaging, but your publication record may suffer.

Reason 2: This is true, but there are ways to game the system. Plus, if you become a PI, there are start-up funds that last a little while, minority grants, young investigator grants, Post-doc fellowships, there are ways to make yourself money. The biggest issue with academia is the bottleneck, I've read that on'y 13% of all postdocs can become PIs due to the few positions available. That absolutely sucks. You publication record better be pretty damn great, and you better interviewing for PI positions with large money already backing you, and you better know people in high places to become a PI or else you will be a postdoc for a long looong time.

Reason 3: True. Plus you'll be asked to wear a lot of hats and perform a lot of tasks. But there is a lot of good here too in startups. You will learn a ton and make yourself a polymath, or Renaissance Man. Not to mention, if you come in on the ground floor and your company is successful and makes profitable products, or wares, it could be very lucrative for you.

Reason 4: Can't argue with this, it's true. To do science in the Novartis and Genentech's of the world is difficult. Its a competition as to who is more productive, and who can make the boss look better. Just be better than the guy next to you.

Reason 5: Not sure exactly what you mean by healthcare. Are you talking like clinical research, or pharmaceutical wares?

I would also like to comment on your statement that as an RA you can't move up anywhere, this is absolutely true. The only reason I got a PhD is for the freedom to move about the Bioscience field, I am not even staying on the bench I am trying to move to Biotech marketing/sales/business dev/regulatory affairs, and after a bit of experience in any of those fields my PhD will look great. However, you don't necessarily need a PhD, a masters will also give you some flexibility. You can't move very far up the ladder in a clinical trial, or in biotech, but this is probably the minimum degree you should obtain if you plan to stay in Biology, and it can actually be very lucrative. I know someone who made 90K starting with just a masters at Genentech. And if you are thinking about leaving the bench for the business side like I am, a masters in Bio coupled with an MBA, should make you a killer in the field, and it should only take 4 years or so to achieve.

EDIT: Last piece of advice to future scientists, unless you are absolutely in love with a certain field of biology, work in a lab that will teach you transferable and sought after skills. Things that large bio-medical companies, and pharma companies will like to see on a resume. Do work with mouse or human tissue/cell culture, work in molecular biology, cell biology, cancer biology, do mass-spectrometry, or work with stem cells, and other fields of that nature. Try to stay way from pigeon-holing yourself in fields that don't offer transferable skills like work with plants, fruit flies, and insects, you can always transfer to those fields later, but they may bootstrap you if you are looking to move away from academia.

Tl;DR - Grad school is useful, if you can handle the time.

 

[handullz]

quote]i tried to tellyou...

and you over there sweatin bullets...

congrats, big homey...

 

[xkrispyeli]

Thinking of going for my MS in Finance instead of an MBA.

Good idea ? I want to work as a investment banking analyst or investment analyst or financial analyst.

MBA vs MS in finance. Pros and cons ?

Has anyone gone to a MBA program or MS in Finance program ? How was it ? Worth it?

 

[3am scholar]

Finished my BS in Psychology, now starting my MA in Mental Health Counseling this Fall at Brooklyn College CUNY. It's a 2 year licensed program with 3,000 hours of supervised post-degree experience. Then I plan on getting my PhD or PsyD in Clinical Psychology. Strong determination for the next 6-10 years.

 

[futuremd]

throughout all of the schooling their is still a huge failure to think critically amongst students...Im not sure why this generation is so sheepish..

Whats you're degree(s) in?

 

[handullz]

so its only a few students going after the Business programs?

feelstaloneman... feels real alone...

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

so its only a few students going after the Business programs?
feelstaloneman... feels real alone...

[COLOR=#red] More opportunities for you right? And yeah I was sweating bullets at first, then I knew I had to calm down and put the best foot forward..[/COLOR]

 

[ronnies pinky]

What school are you attending? I will start my last fieldwork rotation at the end of this month. Let me know if you have any questions.

I am going to University of St. Augustine in San Marcos. what school did you attend? Any advice for study habits and so forth?

 

[based mod]

.

appreciate you taking the time to type out all of that.

regarding reason 5, by "health care profession" i mean i want to pursue a career as a health care practitioner - dentist, optometrist, DPT, etc. i think i've already made up my mind on shying away from research, but i'll look into the british phd programs anyway.

 

[metallicnitro]

Got a BA in 2010 and decided to take a break as suggested by one of my professors. I applied to 2 grad programs, I/O Psychology. I got rejected by one and never heard from the other, even after calling and emailing. I even had some convos with the director of the program and he just brushed me off when I emailed him and asked about my application status. Feels bad man |I. I'm applying to Spring programs over the next few weeks. Hopefully land a full time gig with benefits. I'm tired of where I am at and not being able to have anything because of loans.

 

[alkatrez]

Got a BA in 2010 and decided to take a break as suggested by one of my professors. I applied to 2 grad programs, I/O Psychology. I got rejected by one and never heard from the other, even after calling and emailing. I even had some convos with the director of the program and he just brushed me off when I emailed him and asked about my application status. Feels bad man |I. I'm applying to Spring programs over the next few weeks. Hopefully land a full time gig with benefits. I'm tired of where I am at and not being able to have anything because of loans.

Don't be discouraged at all man. Just take the time to improve on areas you think will make you stand out. I would also suggest keep pressing the school that denied you and ask what you can do to improve your chances. Best of luck to you.

 

[alkatrez]

I am going to University of St. Augustine in San Marcos. what school did you attend? Any advice for study habits and so forth?

I'm attending Winston-Salem State University. My advice for study habits is do not procrastinate and use study groups (make sure it's with the right people though). In study groups, I was able to reinforce the material I learned by teaching it to classmates and obtaining different perspectives of the information learned from other group members. This made the information stick for me. Also, don't be content in just memorizing the information, but understand how to apply the information to the practice.

 

[kidcurry209]

so its only a few students going after the Business programs?
feelstaloneman... feels real alone...

Your not alone my friend....hoping to go for my MBA in fall 2014

went to san diego state for undergrad and got a 3.18 gpa (

 not as good as I had hoped) in International Business - it did a 250 hour 3 month internship in Costa Rica to graduate (which was amazing)

Did a 4 month part time sales assistant job out of college and have been in the Hertz Manager program for the past year (

) and hope to find a new job soon and take my GMAT

Does anybody have experience with dealing with a disciplinary probation on your undergrad record (sadly i got pulled over with tree by campus police) and how it will affect my application? like do I have no chance of getting into the likes of USC, UCLA, UC DAVIS mba programs with a high 600/700?

 

[nocomment6]

Thinking of going for my MS in Finance instead of an MBA.
Good idea ? I want to work as a investment banking analyst or investment analyst or financial analyst.
MBA vs MS in finance. Pros and cons ?
Has anyone gone to a MBA program or MS in Finance program ? How was it ? Worth it?

I would also like to know this.

 

[drainthejumper4]

this site was helpful for me:

http://www.financeinterviewprep.com/

i'm an undergrad, but it could help some of you with career path questions.

i've had a couple of sessions and the guys i talked to were really cool. they all are real finance people with some legit jobs.
i'm interested in i-banking and they helped me figure out what to major and minor in, etc.

will def. be getting my resume reviewed when i start applying for internships.

plus this site is much cheaper than any other finance site i've come across.

good luck

 

[handullz]

Thinking of going for my MS in Finance instead of an MBA.
Good idea ? I want to work as a investment banking analyst or investment analyst or financial analyst.
MBA vs MS in finance. Pros and cons ?
Has anyone gone to a MBA program or MS in Finance program ? How was it ? Worth it?

aight... here's the best advice i've compiled, b/c i chose to go w/ the MS over the MBA for now.

Spoiler

for an MS, you dont need work history or experience. most programs let you come right into the program b/c its more TECHNICAL than the MBA portion. meaning you will be doing more actual work from the book, than in an MBA. with an MBA, unless you're 4.0 outta Stanford, or cranking out a 740 on the GMAT, its kinda tough to go into a well known program right outta undergrad, b/c they arent as technical as the MS...

doesnt mean its impossible, or never done... just means its alot harder.

an MS, is sometimes looked at on the same level as an MBA... most jobs say "MBA is a plus" but an MS is a plus as well...

MS programs are also a lot quicker. mine is 30 hours, while some MBA programs can be 45-60 hours... some are also done completely online... the reason why is b/c they're so technical. their arent many well known ONLINE ONLY MBAs b/c they require in person type of learning... there are some, but not a lot.

the bad thing about them is some companies WANT an MBA.. and they are NOT the same thing... You dont get to network as well, and it doesnt have the business side in it like an MBA.

MBAs deal more with the business aspect. you're going to be doing a lot of team work, reading, and scenarios. think of it like you're CAPSTONE class that many business majors have to take at the end of their undergrad. lots of team work.

MBAs are suited for C-LEVEL jobs... Chief Operating Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Chief Marketing Officer... they're basically GROOMING you for those type of spots.

also, an MBA has that sound to it... when i tell people "i'm getting my MS" they literally think its a science degree... its far easier to say you got an MBA in Finance, instead of explaining it out...

WITH ME?

i chose the MS Finance program b/c
1. i had a wack GPA in undergrad
2. its a quicker program
3. i can find a decent paying job when i finish
4. i'll be able to pay down my loans
5. i could go right into it...
6. it will definitely help me in getting into a nice MBA program in the future.
7. many MBA programs will not accept you if you already have an MBA... so lets say you get an MBA in finance from a lower tier school. But you want to go to UT Austin and get a general MBA. They will not let you in on the fact that they feel its doing the same thing. its a certain term for it, but i forgot what it is. Going into this MS finance program IS NOT THE SAME as an MBA... so if i wanted to go back and get my MBA in the future, i can.

my plan... is laid out kind of like this...

Spoiler

BBA-Marketing '12 > MS-Finance '14 > MBA >'19

the reason why i'm choosing to get the MS first, is b/c it will teach me the technical side of finance. I have an undergrad in Marketing, that really taught me about looking at how people view and value things, product placement, interviews, and basically selling anything (whether it be myself, a product, an idea).

also, in many business, marketing and finance are on two different sides of the fence. marketing is more subjective, more a brand recognition, while finance is cut and dry, with dollars and cents. many places, they butt heads b/c finance doesnt recognize the value of the marketing team...

my MS-FIN program will be done in '14... i'll be turning 25, and hopefully have a job that is #bawse... i plan on working it for a 2-3 years, using that time to pay my loans down, which will be rougly $35K... if i'm making even just $60K, i'll be able to pay them down to a very low amount, possibly all they way down...

Then i'm going to gun for my MBA... the only reason why i want this is b/c it will help me in trying to take on c-level jobs... i'll be around 30, w/ around 4-6 years experience in finance or marketing, and have a degrees in different areas that use each other (finance and marketing) and an MBA for managing it all.

sounds like a daunting task, but its no different than a doctor or a researcher's assistant... they typically have more than just an additional 4 -5 years of schooling...

eventually i want to dabble in many areas of finance. my goal is to start a small group of members that are able to market business to their target consumer, or even B2B marketing, as well as advise in financial planning and decision making and hedge funds for start up business.... kind of like a marketing/finance firm.. one stop shop.

basically, they give us money, to tell them how to spend money, and market their products.... havent really ironed out all the kinks and it may change drastically, but that's for the future...

how i'm going to get there? by using both sides of the coin... learning the ins and outs of the marketing and financial aspects of a company. I can only do that by doing my job WELL, and not being afraid to take on more responsibilities... i want to start in finance b/c i know that its easier to get the marketing side down than it is finance, so i'm trying to start on the hard part.

 

[Extrait de Minimalisme]

Graduate next spring with a BS in Pan-African Studies minor in French. Heavily weighted on getting my master abroad, London School of Economics, Science Po-Paris, Aalto school of Economics-Finland. LSE is the most expensive of the 3, but still less expensive than any top tier program in the states.

Hopefully I can land a followship and grants, so I won't have to work some basic job just to make ends meet and focus on research, career moves, and living it up.

 

[baltimoregutta]

Hmmm, what do some of these acronyms mean?

I know what MBA means but how about MS, MA, BBA, etc.? MA = Master of Art? MS = Master of Science?

 

[smokey1212]

appreciate you taking the time to type out all of that.
regarding reason 5, by "health care profession" i mean i want to pursue a career as a health care practitioner - dentist, optometrist, DPT, etc. i think i've already made up my mind on shying away from research, but i'll look into the british phd programs anyway.

Got it. That's a good call. Good luck with that broham.

 

[handullz]

Hmmm, what do some of these acronyms mean?
I know what MBA means but how about MS, MA, BBA, etc.? MA = Master of Art? MS = Master of Science?

yep. Bba- bachelors business administration...

IT = information technology
MLIS = masters of library and information system
Fin= finance
PhD= doctorate of philosophy

You don't see many PhD folks in business.

 

[xkrispyeli]

Thinking of going for my MS in Finance instead of an MBA.
Good idea ? I want to work as a investment banking analyst or investment analyst or financial analyst.
MBA vs MS in finance. Pros and cons ?
Has anyone gone to a MBA program or MS in Finance program ? How was it ? Worth it?

aight... here's the best advice i've compiled, b/c i chose to go w/ the MS over the MBA for now.

Spoiler

for an MS, you dont need work history or experience. most programs let you come right into the program b/c its more TECHNICAL than the MBA portion. meaning you will be doing more actual work from the book, than in an MBA. with an MBA, unless you're 4.0 outta Stanford, or cranking out a 740 on the GMAT, its kinda tough to go into a well known program right outta undergrad, b/c they arent as technical as the MS...

doesnt mean its impossible, or never done... just means its alot harder.

an MS, is sometimes looked at on the same level as an MBA... most jobs say "MBA is a plus" but an MS is a plus as well...

MS programs are also a lot quicker. mine is 30 hours, while some MBA programs can be 45-60 hours... some are also done completely online... the reason why is b/c they're so technical. their arent many well known ONLINE ONLY MBAs b/c they require in person type of learning... there are some, but not a lot.

the bad thing about them is some companies WANT an MBA.. and they are NOT the same thing... You dont get to network as well, and it doesnt have the business side in it like an MBA.

MBAs deal more with the business aspect. you're going to be doing a lot of team work, reading, and scenarios. think of it like you're CAPSTONE class that many business majors have to take at the end of their undergrad. lots of team work.

MBAs are suited for C-LEVEL jobs... Chief Operating Officer, Chief Financial Officer, Chief Marketing Officer... they're basically GROOMING you for those type of spots.

also, an MBA has that sound to it... when i tell people "i'm getting my MS" they literally think its a science degree... its far easier to say you got an MBA in Finance, instead of explaining it out...

WITH ME?

i chose the MS Finance program b/c
1. i had a wack GPA in undergrad
2. its a quicker program
3. i can find a decent paying job when i finish
4. i'll be able to pay down my loans
5. i could go right into it...
6. it will definitely help me in getting into a nice MBA program in the future.
7. many MBA programs will not accept you if you already have an MBA... so lets say you get an MBA in finance from a lower tier school. But you want to go to UT Austin and get a general MBA. They will not let you in on the fact that they feel its doing the same thing. its a certain term for it, but i forgot what it is. Going into this MS finance program IS NOT THE SAME as an MBA... so if i wanted to go back and get my MBA in the future, i can.

my plan... is laid out kind of like this...

Spoiler

BBA-Marketing '12 > MS-Finance '14 > MBA >'19

the reason why i'm choosing to get the MS first, is b/c it will teach me the technical side of finance. I have an undergrad in Marketing, that really taught me about looking at how people view and value things, product placement, interviews, and basically selling anything (whether it be myself, a product, an idea).

also, in many business, marketing and finance are on two different sides of the fence. marketing is more subjective, more a brand recognition, while finance is cut and dry, with dollars and cents. many places, they butt heads b/c finance doesnt recognize the value of the marketing team...

my MS-FIN program will be done in '14... i'll be turning 25, and hopefully have a job that is #bawse... i plan on working it for a 2-3 years, using that time to pay my loans down, which will be rougly $35K... if i'm making even just $60K, i'll be able to pay them down to a very low amount, possibly all they way down...

Then i'm going to gun for my MBA... the only reason why i want this is b/c it will help me in trying to take on c-level jobs... i'll be around 30, w/ around 4-6 years experience in finance or marketing, and have a degrees in different areas that use each other (finance and marketing) and an MBA for managing it all.

sounds like a daunting task, but its no different than a doctor or a researcher's assistant... they typically have more than just an additional 4 -5 years of schooling...

eventually i want to dabble in many areas of finance. my goal is to start a small group of members that are able to market business to their target consumer, or even B2B marketing, as well as advise in financial planning and decision making and hedge funds for start up business.... kind of like a marketing/finance firm.. one stop shop.

basically, they give us money, to tell them how to spend money, and market their products.... havent really ironed out all the kinks and it may change drastically, but that's for the future...

how i'm going to get there? by using both sides of the coin... learning the ins and outs of the marketing and financial aspects of a company. I can only do that by doing my job WELL, and not being afraid to take on more responsibilities... i want to start in finance b/c i know that its easier to get the marketing side down than it is finance, so i'm trying to start on the hard part.

Talked to my professor and he said get a job first then see what they want.

 

[handullz]

Talked to my professor and he said get a job first then see what they want.

different stokes for different folks.

I just know its DAMB hard to get a great job right outta undergrad.. especially in a business field.

Not impossible ... but hard...

I feel that getting the MS will GREATLY aid me in finding a nice job

 

[True Blues]

different stokes for different folks.
I just know its DAMB hard to get a great job right outta undergrad.. especially in a business field.
Not impossible ... but hard...
I feel that getting the MS will GREATLY aid me in finding a nice job

It's not much easier out of grad school, unfortunately. The job market is barren.