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LOL anthony carter is weak. I hope you're his son or something posting this guy. But seriously...Originally Posted by Sole into it
This man is a BUM.Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm
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LOL anthony carter is weak. I hope you're his son or something posting this guy. But seriously...Originally Posted by Sole into it
This man is a BUM.Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm
Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft.Originally Posted by 10027
Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony don't do any of these things either, and I don't see anyone calling them soft.Originally Posted by 10027
Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove.Originally Posted by amel223
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?
Coming from someone who asked me to provide concrete proof to back up my assertions, you are making claims about fans' feelings towards Dirk that is very hard to prove.Originally Posted by amel223
Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican
But I actually think race makes it much easier to hate on him and Nash. I am not understanding why you are dismissing people not liking certain players because they are white. People hated Bird because he wasn't black. ANd I do feel people hate Dirk and Nash for that very reason alone as well. And a LOT of people where I am from just hate white players just cause. It exists man. Players were hated for their skin color in 1960, what do you think the human emotion/mind has advanced that much where they don't do that anymore?
When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.
This is what it comes down too, you are purporting that a lack of mental toughness is holding Dirk Nowitski back from dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, altering shots in traffic? This is quite frankly dumb.
My point is that there are far more obvious answers to why he does not do those things, he is slow, he doesn't jump and he isn't quick off his feet, even with these physical impairments thanks to his height, and his effort he has managed to still be an above average defensive rebounder.
So again why do you immediately reach for the softness angle when there 4 other far more obvious reasons why he doesn't grab 11 rebounds a game. You tell me it's not because he is a white European, white Europeans on NT and a lot of places connote "softness" so you reach for that instead the more logical alternatives.
Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.
I chose the people I chose because they manifest the physical indicators most people view as toughness, tatoos, non-european, you have decided that rebounding makes you tought all those people rebound at the same rate or worse than Dirk despite being much more athletic than him. When you say soft it intimates that somebody mental weakness is holding them back from achieving something that there physical gifts should allow. Other than height, there is no reason that Dirk should out rebound these guys, they are quicker, faster and they jump higher but yet he does. That means he is completely maxing out his physical gifts and thus he is not soft.
Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.
In 90% of cases players play how they play because it is what there physical gifts allow, Dirk was gifted with incredible body control and mucle memory, so he uses this to shoot jump shots, what else would you have him do? He certainly not quick enough to get by and SF/PF, and his frame isn't large enough to overpower a center, so he shoots jump shots over small SF's and drives past Large PF/C's.
And despite the fact that he apparently goes AWAY from the basket he gets to the line a TON.
And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.
1. Huh so are there some special magical rebounds you what him to get, I don't give a %%@+ what the perception of him is, he either rebounds or he doesn't perception is reality for stupid people. He is a good defensive rebounder for a PF, period.
2. Again, he averages 1 block a game despite his non jumping, unathleticness and pretty much since Avery Johnson got there he is a solid tem defender he's smart and rotates and even though he can't jump make some crazy block and then flex like amare to convince you that he's tough, I think I'd much rather have Dirk.
He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.
Since when did comparing every one of the biggest stronger best rebounding point guards become a sensible standard? How does it make sense, dod we compare everyones athleticism to Bron, do we compare everyone post up game to the Dream.
He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.
It's wrong.
I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.
See this also really dumb, Bynum has what 30 pounds on Pau? His frame is like in the upper 10% of NBA players when it comes just width to carry muscle and you want Pau to body people like him? How? Magic? "effort" "Weaties"?
Pau plays the way he plays because his body and natural ability is suited to play that way a super coordinated 7 footer who can block shots and rebound and you want him to gain 30 pounds loose all mobility versitility and so you can have another bynum?
Put it this way under your logic, Demarcus Ware is soft because he can't play nose tackle.
When I think of Kenyon Martin, I think of dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, and altered shots in traffic... but the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk is mainly because he's black; you're absolutely right. Has nothing to do with the fact that Dirk literally does NONE of those things consistently, almost to the point of 'never'. Nope. Has nothing to do with that. It's just because KMart is black and Dirk is white. End of story. You nailed it.
This is what it comes down too, you are purporting that a lack of mental toughness is holding Dirk Nowitski back from dunks in traffic, power dribbles to the basket, altering shots in traffic? This is quite frankly dumb.
My point is that there are far more obvious answers to why he does not do those things, he is slow, he doesn't jump and he isn't quick off his feet, even with these physical impairments thanks to his height, and his effort he has managed to still be an above average defensive rebounder.
So again why do you immediately reach for the softness angle when there 4 other far more obvious reasons why he doesn't grab 11 rebounds a game. You tell me it's not because he is a white European, white Europeans on NT and a lot of places connote "softness" so you reach for that instead the more logical alternatives.
Birdman? I think of blocks, block attempts, altered shots, and rebounds in traffic. No, not a blocking machine like Hakeem, or a rebounding nut like Rodman, but I think of a guy in traffic fighting for boards and trying to alter shots. But the reason I think of him as tougher than Dirk, again, is because he's bla... wait, no that doesn't work with this one. Hmmm... well then why the hell is it that I think of him as tougher than Dirk? It's not that he's black, it's not their actual play on the court. What the hell? I'm confused.
I chose the people I chose because they manifest the physical indicators most people view as toughness, tatoos, non-european, you have decided that rebounding makes you tought all those people rebound at the same rate or worse than Dirk despite being much more athletic than him. When you say soft it intimates that somebody mental weakness is holding them back from achieving something that there physical gifts should allow. Other than height, there is no reason that Dirk should out rebound these guys, they are quicker, faster and they jump higher but yet he does. That means he is completely maxing out his physical gifts and thus he is not soft.
Maybe... just MAYBE... it' because when I think of 5 things Dirk brings to the table, the first three are 'Jump shots', 'Shooting', and 'Making it rain', but when I think of other guys with a reputation for being tough (or at least tougher than him), I think of some kind of combination of BLOCKED/ALTERED SHOTS, REBOUNDS ON THE DEFENSIVE & OFFENSIVE END, and going TO the basket instead of AWAY from it.
In 90% of cases players play how they play because it is what there physical gifts allow, Dirk was gifted with incredible body control and mucle memory, so he uses this to shoot jump shots, what else would you have him do? He certainly not quick enough to get by and SF/PF, and his frame isn't large enough to overpower a center, so he shoots jump shots over small SF's and drives past Large PF/C's.
And despite the fact that he apparently goes AWAY from the basket he gets to the line a TON.
And just because Dirk gets rebounds doesn't mean he's a rebounder. But even if he were known as a glass cleaner... ok... how about using that height to affect some shots under the rim? Sure, every once in a blue moon, he'll step in the paint to affect someone's attempt on a drive real quick... and I mean REAL QUICK... then it's right back out of the paint like he's stepping on coals.
1. Huh so are there some special magical rebounds you what him to get, I don't give a %%@+ what the perception of him is, he either rebounds or he doesn't perception is reality for stupid people. He is a good defensive rebounder for a PF, period.
2. Again, he averages 1 block a game despite his non jumping, unathleticness and pretty much since Avery Johnson got there he is a solid tem defender he's smart and rotates and even though he can't jump make some crazy block and then flex like amare to convince you that he's tough, I think I'd much rather have Dirk.
He shoots jump shots and he dabbles in the paint. Period. Kidd is shorter, plays a position that doesn't typically grab rebounds, and he's like 5 years older... and Dirk barely averages a couple boards more than him? Soft.
Since when did comparing every one of the biggest stronger best rebounding point guards become a sensible standard? How does it make sense, dod we compare everyones athleticism to Bron, do we compare everyone post up game to the Dream.
He's not going to shed that. It's not a stereotype; it's his rep.
It's wrong.
I'm more than willing for him to prove me wrong tonight. Hell, Gasol is soft, too, in my opinion. Tougher than when he first joined the Lakers, but still soft, and he irritates the hell out of me sometimes with his refusal to BODY people the way Bynum does. Maybe with Dirk and Pau matched up, we'll see which one can stay out of the paint more and come out looking less... soft.
See this also really dumb, Bynum has what 30 pounds on Pau? His frame is like in the upper 10% of NBA players when it comes just width to carry muscle and you want Pau to body people like him? How? Magic? "effort" "Weaties"?
Pau plays the way he plays because his body and natural ability is suited to play that way a super coordinated 7 footer who can block shots and rebound and you want him to gain 30 pounds loose all mobility versitility and so you can have another bynum?
Put it this way under your logic, Demarcus Ware is soft because he can't play nose tackle.
I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro, I made plenty of points.Originally Posted by 23ska909red02
I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)
And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?
I didn't realize you were so sensitive bro, I made plenty of points.Originally Posted by 23ska909red02
I must be making some points that are too solid, 'cause you're starting to get insulting. 'When you can't attack the words, attack the author.' ;-)
And the combination of muscle memory + body control can only lead to being a jump shooter?! Really?! REALLY?!Like, there's nothing else that can be done w/ that combo? Just... jumpshots?
Originally Posted by amel223
This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.
Originally Posted by amel223
This whole 2nd quarter, JJ freakin Barea has been in the paint more than Nowitzki. That's just sad.