How close was Mario Lemieux to Gretzky if he never had health issues?

[RyGuy45]

Saw today was the date (1997) Super Mario retired for the 1st time....

Granted no one tops the Great One, we know that. Rather this is just a discussion to think about. How "close" do you think Mario is and how much morewould it have changed when you factor in he missed 50 games in 1990-91 because of his back, was diagnosed with Hodgkin'sLymphoma (and started treatment) in 1992-93 season, missed 60 games for back problems in 1993-94, missed full seasonin 1994-95 because of fatigue, and then missed three full seasons (1997-2000) because of retirement. He later came back in 2000-01 to playparts of five more seasons (missing 240 out of a possible 410 games in that span).

Career Resume:

6 Scoring Titles
3 Hart Trophies (MVP)
2 Stanley Cups
2 Playoff MVPs
NHL Record 4 goals in one period
NHL Record 13 shorthanded goals in one season
NHL Record three 8-point games in career
NHL Record (tie) four 5-goal games in career
NHL Record for most playoff goals and points in a single period and game
Bonus: His last year in Junior Hockey he scored 133 goals and 149 assists in 70 games.


NHL Career Points Leaders:
1. 2857 - Wayne Gretzky (1,487 Games)
2. 1887 - Mark Messier (1,756 Games)
3. 1850 - Gordie Howe (1,767 Games)
4. 1798 - Ron Francis (1,731 Games)
5. 1771 - Marcel Dionne (1,348 Games)
6. 1755 - Steve Yzerman (1,514 Games)
7. 1723 - Mario Lemieux (915 Games)
8. 1641 - Joe Sakic (1,378 Games)
9. 1599 - Jaromir Jagr (1,273 Games)
10. 1590 - Phil Esposito (1,282 Games)

NHL Career Points Per Game Leaders:
1. 1.92 - Wayne Gretzky
2. 1.88 - Mario Lemieux
3. 1.49 - Mike Bossy
4. 1.39 - Bobby Orr
5. 1.31 - Marcel Dionne


"Notwithstanding Gretzky's abiding majesty, posterity will never forget that no athlete - not even the sainted Lou Gehrig - has ever beforeLemieux been struck down by a deadly disease at the very moment when he was the best of his sport at the best he ever would be. And since: Lemieux has achievedmiraculously in remission, struggling, on the side, with a back injury so grievous that it has benched him after he merely laced up a skate. That is the stuffthat answers people these days when they wonder where all our sports heroes have gone." --Frank Deford

 

[gunna get it]

gimme Mario.

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by GUNNA GET IT

gimme Mario.

ditto

 

[d0nt w0rry about it]

can't go wrong with either, but give me mario at his best over gretsky at his best.

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

Mario was ridiculous... towards the end of his career he couldn't even bend over to tie his skates and he was still amazing on the ice... If he didn'thave health problems he would be right behind Gretzky in terms of points.

 

[DeadsetAce]

NHL Career Points Per Game Leaders:
1. 1.92 - Wayne Gretzky
2. 1.88 - Mario Lemieux
3. 1.49 - Mike Bossy
4. 1.39 - Bobby Orr
5. 1.31 - Marcel Dionne


imo...he would have passed the great one if he never went thru the health issues. he was a scoring machine. but if, woulda, coulda, shoulda....

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

Mario Lemieux and a young Jaromir Jagr were one of the best duo's in sports history... LMAO @ Jagr's mullet...

 

[callhimar]

I would definitely take Mario without question. He would have been the greatest to ever do it.

 

[doublejs07]

I think if Lemieux had sayed healthy, there would have still been a 300-400 point difference between him and Gretz. That's not to discredit Lemieux,because I feel as though he was the most physically gifted player to ever lace em' up in the NHL. I give Lemieux all the credit in the world for not onlyputting Pittsburgh hockey on the map, but also for battling cancer and coming back and STILL being a dominant player. However, Gretzky's #'s are flatout absurd. Not only could he put the puck in the net, but his passing was

His hockey IQ is what sets him apart from everyone else in the league. Not"just about everyone," but EVERYONE who has played the game. He is unmatched. If Gretz had stayed healthy, he might have surpassed 3,000 points.That's #$#+++# insane! All of his records (most importantly his points) are as close to un-breakable as yo ucan get.

Like I said before, even if Mario had stayed healthy, there would be a big gap. Lemieux (IMO) is the unquestioned second-best player the NHL has ever had.

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

I think if Lemieux had sayed healthy, there would have still been a 300-400 point difference between him and Gretz. That's not to discredit Lemieux, because I feel as though he was the most physically gifted player to ever lace em' up in the NHL. I give Lemieux all the credit in the world for not only putting Pittsburgh hockey on the map, but also for battling cancer and coming back and STILL being a dominant player. However, Gretzky's #'s are flat out absurd. Not only could he put the puck in the net, but his passing was

His hockey IQ is what sets him apart from everyone else in the league. Not "just about everyone," but EVERYONE who has played the game. He is unmatched. If Gretz had stayed healthy, he might have surpassed 3,000 points. That's #$#+++# insane! All of his records (most importantly his points) are as close to un-breakable as yo ucan get.

Like I said before, even if Mario had stayed healthy, there would be a big gap. Lemieux (IMO) is the unquestioned second-best player the NHL has ever had.

Co-signs

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

I think if Lemieux had sayed healthy, there would have still been a 300-400 point difference between him and Gretz. That's not to discredit Lemieux, because I feel as though he was the most physically gifted player to ever lace em' up in the NHL. I give Lemieux all the credit in the world for not only putting Pittsburgh hockey on the map, but also for battling cancer and coming back and STILL being a dominant player. However, Gretzky's #'s are flat out absurd. Not only could he put the puck in the net, but his passing was

His hockey IQ is what sets him apart from everyone else in the league. Not "just about everyone," but EVERYONE who has played the game. He is unmatched. If Gretz had stayed healthy, he might have surpassed 3,000 points. That's #$#+++# insane! All of his records (most importantly his points) are as close to un-breakable as yo ucan get.

Like I said before, even if Mario had stayed healthy, there would be a big gap. Lemieux (IMO) is the unquestioned second-best player the NHL has ever had.

with how things played out, i think you have to say:

1. gretzky
2. mario
3. orr

it's fun to think of what could have been tho regarding mario...

 

[RyGuy45]

I mean my goodness.....Stevey Yzerman (who was a beast) played 600 MORE GAMES than Mario.....and finished with 32 more career points.


Im still pissed at Mario beating my North Stars in '91 along with this fool:

 

[n3ff 3000]

Mario's the closest in terms of skill, but still, no one compares to Wayne. This man had 163 assists in one season......who does that?

 

[dmxfury]

Mario had the most skill of perhaps any man to ever play hockey. A joy to watch him play

 

[gunna get it]

Originally Posted by AddictedToFreshKicks

Mario Lemieux and a young Jaromir Jagr were one of the best duo's in sports history... LMAO @ Jagr's mullet...

Add Ron Francis too

 

[carlos tevez]

If Lemieux wasn't so injury prone, he'd easily be 2nd all time in scoring.

Dude was ridiculously talented, even in his last few years he was unstoppable.

That being said, you look at Gretzky's numbers and its hard to say that anyone was better than him.

Since we're all talking about Jagr, I was super pissed when he decided to ditch the NHL for Russia. Come on dude, you were the highest player in the leaguefor quite some time, why the heck are you going to Russia when all they can offer you is tax-free savings? If Jagr was still in the NHL he would've passedSakic on the all-times points list and could've made a run for #2 all time. However, the man has slown down and I dont get the feeling that he'll beplaying hockey into his 40s. If Jagr played 3 more seasons he'd be in the top 5 with much fewer games than some of those guys above him. It sucks that thelockout stripped all these players of 1 year of their primes.

 

[menacin methods]

I started watching Hockey cause of Lemieux

I was also a big fan of Pavel Bure but dude tore his ACL 3 times and had a short career (the most exciting player in my mind)

 

[RyGuy45]

Mario's the closest in terms of skill, but still, no one compares to Wayne. This man had 163 assists in one season......who does that?
True

Or how about 50 goals in 39 games?

Still though Mario had his years

look at some of these:


1985-86 - 79 GP, 48 G, 93 A, 141 PTS
1987-88 - 77 GP, 70 G, 98 A, 168 PTS
1988-89 - 76 GP, 85 G, 114 A, 199 PTS
1989-90 - 59 GP, 45 G, 78 A, 123 PTS
1991-92 - 64 GP, 44 G, 87 A, 131 PTS
1992-93 - 60 GP, 69 G, 91 A, 160 PTS
1995-96 - 70 GP, 69 G, 92 A, 161 PTS


Dude just could never get to 82 games played

 

[dmxfury]

Pavel was nuts to watch as well, I miss the old Pens team, Barasso, Mario, Jagr, Stevens, Francis, Samuelson, Murphy, they were awesome

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by dmxfury

Pavel was nuts to watch as well, I miss the old Pens team, Barasso, Mario, Jagr, Stevens, Francis, Samuelson, Murphy, they were awesome

nhl 96? that team was sick in the sega game

coming down the right side right along the boards with larry murphy...let it rip right as you cross the blue line...beats the goalie short side everytime

 

[the pga tour]

If you take away all the goals Gretzky ever scored he STILL would be the all time leader in points in NHL history! Still tho le magnifique is my favoritehockey player ever and I would take him.

 

[RyGuy45]

nhl 96? that team was sick in the sega game

coming down the right side right along the boards with larry murphy...let it rip right as you cross the blue line...beats the goalie short side everytime

first thing I thought of too

Except I was partial to '93 and '94

Trent I wish they still had fights in this game so I could @@+$*-slap Wayne.
Mike: What? They don't have fighting anymore?
Trent: Doesn't that suck?
Mike: Why'd they get rid of the fighting? It was the best part of the old version.
Sue: I think kids were hittin' each other or somethin', man.
Trent: Yeah but you know what, Mike? You can make their heads bleed in this one.
Mike: Make somebody's head bleed.
Sue: No man, we're in the playoffs.

Sue: Pause the game.
Trent: Wait I'm gonna do my thing with the thing.

Trent I'm gonna make Gretzky's head bleed forsuper fan 99 over here.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by FIRST B0RN

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

I think if Lemieux had sayed healthy, there would have still been a 300-400 point difference between him and Gretz. That's not to discredit Lemieux, because I feel as though he was the most physically gifted player to ever lace em' up in the NHL. I give Lemieux all the credit in the world for not only putting Pittsburgh hockey on the map, but also for battling cancer and coming back and STILL being a dominant player. However, Gretzky's #'s are flat out absurd. Not only could he put the puck in the net, but his passing was

His hockey IQ is what sets him apart from everyone else in the league. Not "just about everyone," but EVERYONE who has played the game. He is unmatched. If Gretz had stayed healthy, he might have surpassed 3,000 points. That's #$#+++# insane! All of his records (most importantly his points) are as close to un-breakable as yo ucan get.

Like I said before, even if Mario had stayed healthy, there would be a big gap. Lemieux (IMO) is the unquestioned second-best player the NHL has ever had.

Co-sign

This is the correct answer.

 

[carlos tevez]

NHL 96 was amazing. It was all about the Quebec Nordiques, I went 84-0-0 with them one season

 

[theprocessofbelief]

Originally Posted by N3FF 3000

Mario's the closest in terms of skill, but still, no one compares to Wayne. This man had 163 assists in one season......who does that?