If barry bonds isnt voted to the hall of fame..............

[statis22]

I think he eventually gets in, his number way too strong to deny, along with Clemens.

The fact that Bags got that high of a percentage vote tells me he'll eventually get in, and deservedly so.

 

[durden7]

Ive never understood why people/writers/whomever care whos in the hall and who isnt.

Its really not that big of a deal.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

The only way Bonds gets voted in is if the voters have an extreme change of heart. I've noticed a lot of individuals who believe Bonds belongs in the hall all say the same thing, "everyone used p.e.d's during this period". Not only is that a weak argument, it lacks accountability. Barry was a lock for the Hall before he decided to become a lab experiment for BALCO. He willingly cheated and only ended up hurting himself. He shouldn't of let the attention McGwire & Sosa received affect him the way it did, neither of those guys could touch Bonds even if they were using. Like aforementioned his attitude & relationship towards the media & fans wasn't ideal, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from getting in. It's when he decided to cheat is when he sealed his own fate.

It does fit his character though. This is the son of Bobby Bonds, who went to college to get top pick money or at least 75000, and almost screwed it up by getting kicked off the team. Then he becomes the 6th pick in 1985 gets to the bigs in May of 86 was the best player in baseball by 1990 and should have had 4 straight MVP's is the best player throughout the 90's but baseballs exploding power numbers, and his personality screw up the clarity so that by 1998 you have Ken Griffey, Sammy Sosa, and Mark McGwire ahead of him in the sports lexacon. He gets Jealous and starts using tears up his elbow, and keeps going 2003 he lies about something that is the most ******ed thing to lie about.
Cheating is in Baseballs DNA, but for some reason Roids are the devil

  

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

The only way Bonds gets voted in is if the voters have an extreme change of heart. I've noticed a lot of individuals who believe Bonds belongs in the hall all say the same thing, "everyone used p.e.d's during this period". Not only is that a weak argument, it lacks accountability. Barry was a lock for the Hall before he decided to become a lab experiment for BALCO. He willingly cheated and only ended up hurting himself. He shouldn't of let the attention McGwire & Sosa received affect him the way it did, neither of those guys could touch Bonds even if they were using. Like aforementioned his attitude & relationship towards the media & fans wasn't ideal, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from getting in. It's when he decided to cheat is when he sealed his own fate.

You're correct of course, those two guys weren't in Barry's stratosphere as far as production and talent goes, but to the casual fan that wasn't the perception. In the late 90s the perception became that Sosa and McGwire "saved" baseball, and were nigh mythical long ball hitters. Barry obviously had a problem with that, and began using, whereupon he became something else entirely (1.4 OPS? At age 39???

). 


I don't think there's any question he deserves to get in based on his accomplishments and body of work, which is the only thing that should matter. Writers want to play moral police, but when you take into account that a lot of players used amphetamines, some played with only white players, different mounds, spitballs, etc., the argument becomes ridiculous. Like all else, steroids were simply a product of the times. 

 

[cosmiccanon]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

I've noticed a lot of individuals who believe Bonds belongs in the hall all say the same thing, "everyone used p.e.d's during this period". Not only is that a weak argument, it lacks accountability. Barry was a lock for the Hall before he decided to become a lab experiment for BALCO. He willingly cheated and only ended up hurting himself. He shouldn't of let the attention McGwire & Sosa received affect him the way it did, neither of those guys could touch Bonds even if they were using. Like aforementioned his attitude & relationship towards the media & fans wasn't ideal, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from getting in. It's when he decided to cheat is when he sealed his own fate.

If going by your logic, than pretty much 80% of baseball from it's existance to the 1970s, should not be in the hall. You know, cause they were filthy cheaters by the way. From greenies to spitballs, baseball is known for cheating, and that's without steroids/hgh. You can make a case to discredit any notable stat, there's no perfect era, so F outta here w/ that nonsense.

 

[RyGuy45]

I've got no problem if the voters make Barry wait for awhile until he finally fesses up.

You want to sit and deny you did anything still to this day looking like a complete fool? Cool. You can wait.

 

[moe fab uafa]

I think all the hate is because everyone knows he took steroids but technically didn't get caught. All the while, breaking both HR records then being so adamant about not taking PEDs, but later saying he may have "unknowingly" taken them (No ones hat size gets bigger after they Bic their hair

). His attitude also irked people and thus he was blackballed from baseball (outside of SF). I honestly don't know if he ever gets in. (He's a Giant so I don't care)
Still IMHO Griffey>>> and I believe he didn't juice.
Just my opinion.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Proshares

Jeff Bagwell isn't a run of the mill guy DJ's, one of the better pure hitters of that era.

The guy's name was Bagpipes cause his biceps were literally that big, please.  Pure hitter my %*+, pure juice.

And despite you continual hate on Howard his numbers really aren't much different than Texiera, plus he doesn't have the lineup protection that Tex has.

And you think everyone is on the juice.  If you don't think he was a pure hitter or one of the best hitters of the 90's, then you just didn't watch him enough.  No positive tests, no Mitchell report, no nothing.  I guess I should be more like you and just assume that every one with big muscles and power numbers from that era was a roid head.  They should have you vote for the HOF as well.

I don't hate Ryan Howard, I hate the Phillies.  My hate has never clouded my judgement or @@@# I say in my posts on this site, I call em like I see them.  Ryan Howard consistently strikes out 150 times a year, his walk total and his eye have gotten significantly worse over the last three years, he cannot hit an offspeed pitch, he can't hit lefties and he is getting worse in the field.  There's no DH in the NL so it's gonna be rough to watch him age horribly before our eyes.  That is one of these worst contracts ever given.  Doesn't have protection?  Maybe not this year because there are no righty bats in that lineup but be real man, he's had Utley, Pat Burrell, Rollins when he was better, Werth in his prime years, Abreu in his prime years.  And that park is also one of the better hitting parks in the league.

 

[dmxfury]

I can't stand him, horrible human from all the stories I have heard in Pitt. A guy that never needed to take PEDs because he was already so good. That almost makes it worse than others. That said he should and will get in, but he will have to wait some years I'm guessing. The baseball HOF and their 'rules' Is very odd

 

[winged wheel]

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

I've noticed a lot of individuals who believe Bonds belongs in the hall all say the same thing, "everyone used p.e.d's during this period". Not only is that a weak argument, it lacks accountability. Barry was a lock for the Hall before he decided to become a lab experiment for BALCO. He willingly cheated and only ended up hurting himself. He shouldn't of let the attention McGwire & Sosa received affect him the way it did, neither of those guys could touch Bonds even if they were using. Like aforementioned his attitude & relationship towards the media & fans wasn't ideal, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from getting in. It's when he decided to cheat is when he sealed his own fate.

If going by your logic, than pretty much 80% of baseball from it's existance to the 1970s, should not be in the hall. You know, cause they were filthy cheaters by the way. From greenies to spitballs, baseball is known for cheating, and that's without steroids/hgh. You can make a case to discredit any notable stat, there's no perfect era, so F outta here w/ that nonsense.

 Are you implying that Bonds shouldn't be held accountable for his actions?

 

[bostonthreeparty]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Jeff Bagwell isn't a run of the mill guy DJ's, one of the better pure hitters of that era.

Lee Smith and Goose Gossage shouldn't be anywhere near HOF. Andruw Jones should be in the HOF. Probably Helton too. I was never a Palmeiro fan.

No.
a .256 hitter should never come close to the hall

 

[blazerfan]

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

Originally Posted by CosmicCanon

Originally Posted by Winged Wheel

I've noticed a lot of individuals who believe Bonds belongs in the hall all say the same thing, "everyone used p.e.d's during this period". Not only is that a weak argument, it lacks accountability. Barry was a lock for the Hall before he decided to become a lab experiment for BALCO. He willingly cheated and only ended up hurting himself. He shouldn't of let the attention McGwire & Sosa received affect him the way it did, neither of those guys could touch Bonds even if they were using. Like aforementioned his attitude & relationship towards the media & fans wasn't ideal, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from getting in. It's when he decided to cheat is when he sealed his own fate.

If going by your logic, than pretty much 80% of baseball from it's existance to the 1970s, should not be in the hall. You know, cause they were filthy cheaters by the way. From greenies to spitballs, baseball is known for cheating, and that's without steroids/hgh. You can make a case to discredit any notable stat, there's no perfect era, so F outta here w/ that nonsense.

 Are you implying that Bonds shouldn't be held accountable for his actions?

Whoosh.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by Proshares

airmaxpenny1 wrote:

I don't hate Ryan Howard, I hate the Phillies.  My hate has never clouded my judgement or @@@# I say in my posts on this site, I call em like I see them.  Ryan Howard consistently strikes out 150 times a year, his walk total and his eye have gotten significantly worse over the last three years, he cannot hit an offspeed pitch, he can't hit lefties and he is getting worse in the field.  There's no DH in the NL so it's gonna be rough to watch him age horribly before our eyes.  That is one of these worst contracts ever given.  Doesn't have protection?  Maybe not this year because there are no righty bats in that lineup but be real man, he's had Utley, Pat Burrell, Rollins when he was better, Werth in his prime years, Abreu in his prime years.  And that park is also one of the better hitting parks in the league.

QFT. Guy is the most overrated player in the game. According to fangraphs he's been the 9th most valuable 1b in the NL. 

No.

A .256 hitter should never come close to the hall.

LOL wut. Didn't realize it was the hall of offense. 

 

[essential1]

If Barry never gets voted in there is only one reason................... Barry Bonds....

From being a complete douche to everyoneto the steroids he made himself not only an unlikeable guy, but a person you couldn't even empathize with...

Does he have Hall Numbers? of course.... Will he get in? Maybe after a decade and it would be from his own doing, not old sports writers..

 

[bigpunoy]

I'm not a big fan of Barry but he belongs in the HoF. Having said that, I hope they make him wait as long as possible before he gets in.

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by BostonThreeParty

Originally Posted by Proshares

Jeff Bagwell isn't a run of the mill guy DJ's, one of the better pure hitters of that era.

Lee Smith and Goose Gossage shouldn't be anywhere near HOF. Andruw Jones should be in the HOF. Probably Helton too. I was never a Palmeiro fan.

No.
a .256 hitter should never come close to the hall

You cannot be serious right now bud.

 

[scarsorscabs]

I wonder if, legal issues in the past and no longer applicable, the Hall of Fame were to say to Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. "Admit that you used PEDs and we'll let you in", do they admit to it?

 

[airjordan jb23]

Originally Posted by acidicality

Originally Posted by WhatsLosinLike

We ALL know Bonds deserves to get in, just like Pete Rose deserves to get in. If he doesn't get voted in, its !%$***$#. Damn near everyone who played in that era used roids or HGH. 

x2

 

[wawaweewa]

Bonds is (should be) a lock.
The establishment is mad that they couldn't scapegoat him. He figured out what was happening and basically told them to f off. 
MLB is still a good old boys club when it comes to the establishment so I'd say race has something to do with it as well. 

Basically an  black dude (as obnoxious as Bonds is

) telling old white men to %%%+ off. 

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Proshares

Jeff Bagwell isn't a run of the mill guy DJ's, one of the better pure hitters of that era.

The guy's name was Bagpipes cause his biceps were literally that big, please.  Pure hitter my %*+, pure juice.

And despite you continual hate on Howard his numbers really aren't much different than Texiera, plus he doesn't have the lineup protection that Tex has.

And you think everyone is on the juice.  If you don't think he was a pure hitter or one of the best hitters of the 90's, then you just didn't watch him enough.  No positive tests, no Mitchell report, no nothing.  I guess I should be more like you and just assume that every one with big muscles and power numbers from that era was a roid head.  They should have you vote for the HOF as well.

I don't hate Ryan Howard, I hate the Phillies.  My hate has never clouded my judgement or @@@# I say in my posts on this site, I call em like I see them.  Ryan Howard consistently strikes out 150 times a year, his walk total and his eye have gotten significantly worse over the last three years, he cannot hit an offspeed pitch, he can't hit lefties and he is getting worse in the field.  There's no DH in the NL so it's gonna be rough to watch him age horribly before our eyes.  That is one of these worst contracts ever given.  Doesn't have protection?  Maybe not this year because there are no righty bats in that lineup but be real man, he's had Utley, Pat Burrell, Rollins when he was better, Werth in his prime years, Abreu in his prime years.  And that park is also one of the better hitting parks in the league.

Go easy on 'em, Pro!

 

[kingjay718]

Actually, the majotity of writers who vote these players in are stat geeks and young to middle age.

And yes Barry Bonds should be in.  He was a HOF bound before he alledgedly 'roided up.

 

[gangsta207therevolution]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by Proshares

airmaxpenny1 wrote:

I don't hate Ryan Howard, I hate the Phillies.  My hate has never clouded my judgement or @@@# I say in my posts on this site, I call em like I see them.  Ryan Howard consistently strikes out 150 times a year, his walk total and his eye have gotten significantly worse over the last three years, he cannot hit an offspeed pitch, he can't hit lefties and he is getting worse in the field.  There's no DH in the NL so it's gonna be rough to watch him age horribly before our eyes.  That is one of these worst contracts ever given.  Doesn't have protection?  Maybe not this year because there are no righty bats in that lineup but be real man, he's had Utley, Pat Burrell, Rollins when he was better, Werth in his prime years, Abreu in his prime years.  And that park is also one of the better hitting parks in the league.

QFT. Guy is the most overrated player in the game. According to fangraphs he's been the 9th most valuable 1b in the NL. 

No.

A .256 hitter should never come close to the hall.

LOL wut. Didn't realize it was the hall of offense. 

This year sure you get that one, Ryan is having a terrible season by his standards.
I dont think hes aging great, but e came up late no fault of his own, and he has made an effort to lose weight
If your the second best defensive player in history by any measure your in. 400 HR's also makes a huge statement. We know the boy wasnt on any ped's 

at the thought.
Back to Bonds and the history of Baseball.
If were going to sit here and let 500 people determine the moral compass of Baseball what does that say about us as fans?
They are the lesser of 2 evils ( fan voting

) but that they have never inducted a player unanamous says a whole lot.
We have to make them more accountable. I would prefer the arrangement end up like congress and we vote in writers to serve terms and make some of these dudes accountable for their piss poor voting over the past 10 years.

  

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Proshares

Jeff Bagwell isn't a run of the mill guy DJ's, one of the better pure hitters of that era.

The guy's name was Bagpipes cause his biceps were literally that big, please.  Pure hitter my %*+, pure juice.

And despite you continual hate on Howard his numbers really aren't much different than Texiera, plus he doesn't have the lineup protection that Tex has.

And you think everyone is on the juice.  If you don't think he was a pure hitter or one of the best hitters of the 90's, then you just didn't watch him enough.  No positive tests, no Mitchell report, no nothing.  I guess I should be more like you and just assume that every one with big muscles and power numbers from that era was a roid head.  They should have you vote for the HOF as well.

I'd vote Bagwell in the HOF though, I have no problem with steroid users.  Its just not hard to look at a guy like this with bulging forearms and barely any neck during an era where big power hitters surged and not assume he was on something.  Guy has a build that uncannily resembled McGwire and others.  I think all of the Killer B's prolly were on some sort of PED.  And as for me believing that everyone was on something, why wouldn't I? Canseco estimated about 80 percent were prolly on something and everyone crucified him as untrustworthy when he wrote that book but it all pretty much ended up true.  Sheeps come in flocks usually and the steroid era was one of those instances.  And how come we rarely see guys with that completely muscled out build in baseball anymore?  I don't see the guys looking like weightlifters.  The power hitters are the really talented guys and the guys who are generally huge.  Its why if I had to take a guess at the power guys from that era that I don't think used PED would be Griffey, Thome, Thomas and Belle.  Griffey and Belle just supreme talents to me and Thome and Thomas just being guys built like lumberjacks.

I mean look at dudes arm, does that look any bit natural?

And I actually loved Bags, fooling around hitting out of his crouched stance.  IT was amazing to see him so close to the ground and then spring forward and launch those shots.

 

[651akathepaul]

If Barry Bonds isn't voted to the Hall of Fame...

Then we can all agree Griffey was the better player of that era.























Nah, that's another debate for another day. It would be sad and disservice to one of the all-time greats, before/after and during his PED days.

 

[cash is king]

barry bonds should still get in anything else would be bs and everyone no it