IS KOBE BRYANT...OVERRATED?

[longstroke]

Watching J. Kidd has been great this year and I think he's the best PG since Magic but Kobe was just a machine in his prime in a way J Kidd wasn't...Kobe would not let his team lose and J. Kidd's issues with shooting throughout much of his career sets him back from where Kobe was...

Set him back, 'eh?


[table][tr][th=""]Rank[/th][th=""]Name[/th][th=""]Position(s)[/th][th=""]Team(s) played for (years)[sup][3][/sup][/th][th=""]Total 3-point field
goals  made[/th][th=""]Total 3-point field
goals  attempted[/th][th=""]3-point field goal
percentage[/th][/tr][tr][td]1[/td][td]Ray Allen^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Milwaukee Bucks  (1996–2003)
Seattle SuperSonics  (2003–2007)
Boston Celtics  (2007–2012)
Miami Heat  (2012–present)[/td][td]2,754[/td][td]6,861[/td][td].401[/td][/tr][tr][td]2[/td][td]Reggie Miller*[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Indiana Pacers  (1987–2005)[/td][td]2,560[/td][td]6,486[/td][td].395[/td][/tr][tr][td]3[/td][td]Jason Kidd^[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Dallas Mavericks  (1994–1996)
Phoenix Suns  (1996–2001)
New Jersey Nets  (2001–2008)
Dallas Mavericks  (2008–2012)
New York Knicks  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,906[/td][td]5,439[/td][td].350[/td][/tr][tr][td]4[/td][td]Jason Terry^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Atlanta Hawks  (1999–2004)
Dallas Mavericks  (2004–2012)
Boston Celtics  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,820[/td][td]4,791[/td][td].380[/td][/tr][tr][td]5[/td][td]Chauncey Billups^[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Boston Celtics  (1997–1998)
Toronto Raptors  (1998)
Denver Nuggets  (1999)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (2000–2002)
Detroit Pistons  (2002–2008)
Denver Nuggets  (2008–2011)
New York Knicks  (2011)
Los Angeles Clippers  (2011–present)[/td][td]1,787[/td][td]4,598[/td][td].389[/td][/tr][tr][td]6[/td][td]Peja Stojaković[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SF[/td][td]Sacramento Kings  (1999–2006)
Indiana Pacers  (2006)
New Orleans(/Oklahoma City) Hornets  (2006–2010)
Toronto Raptors  (2010)
Dallas Mavericks  (2011)[/td][td]1,760[/td][td]4,392[/td][td].401[/td][/tr][tr][td]7[/td][td]Dale Ellis[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Dallas Mavericks  (1983–1986)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1986–1991)
Milwaukee Bucks  (1991–1992)
San Antonio Spurs  (1992–1994)
Denver Nuggets  (1994–1997)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1997–1999)
Milwaukee Bucks  (1999–2000)
Charlotte Hornets  (2000)[/td][td]1,719[/td][td]4,266[/td][td].403[/td][/tr][tr][td]8[/td][td]Paul Pierce^[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Boston Celtics  (1999–present)[/td][td]1,710[/td][td]4,638[/td][td].369[/td][/tr][tr][td]9[/td][td]Rashard Lewis^[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Seattle SuperSonics  (1999–2007)
Orlando Magic  (2007–2010)
Washington Wizards  (2010–2012)
Miami Heat  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,706[/td][td]4,393[/td][td].388[/td][/tr][tr][td]10[/td][td]Steve Nash^[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Phoenix Suns  (1996–1998)
Dallas Mavericks  (1999–2004)
Phoenix Suns  (2004–2012)
Los Angeles Lakers  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,621[/td][td]3,790[/td][td].428[/td][/tr][tr][td]11[/td][td]Glen Rice[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Miami Heat  (1989–1995)
Charlotte Hornets  (1995–1998)
Los Angeles Lakers  (1999–2000)
New York Knicks  (2000–2001)
Houston Rockets  (2001–2003)
Los Angeles Clippers  (2003–2004)[/td][td]1,559[/td][td]3,896[/td][td].400[/td][/tr][tr][td]12[/td][td]Jason Richardson^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Golden State Warriors  (2001–2007)
Charlotte Bobcats  (2007–2008)
Phoenix Suns  (2008–2010)
Orlando Magic  (2010–2012)
Philadelphia 76ers  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,555[/td][td]4,171[/td][td].373[/td][/tr][tr][td]13[/td][td]Kobe Bryant^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Los Angeles Lakers  (1996–present)[/td][td]1,548[/td][td]4,580[/td][td].338[/td][/tr][tr][td]14[/td][td]Eddie Jones[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SG[/td][td]Los Angeles Lakers  (1994–1999)
Charlotte Hornets  (1999–2000)
Miami Heat  (2000–2005)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2005–2007)
Miami Heat  (2007)
Dallas Mavericks  (2007–2008)[/td][td]1,546[/td][td]4,147[/td][td].373[/td][/tr][tr][td]15[/td][td]Vince Carter^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Toronto Raptors  (1999–2004)
New Jersey Nets  (2004–2009)
Orlando Magic  (2009–2010)
Phoenix Suns  (2010–2011)
Dallas Mavericks  (2011–present)[/td][td]1,545[/td][td]4,125[/td][td].375[/td][/tr][tr][td]16[/td][td]Tim Hardaway[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Golden State Warriors  (1989–1996)
Miami Heat  (1996–2001)
Dallas Mavericks  (2001–2002)
Denver Nuggets  (2002)
Indiana Pacers  (2003)[/td][td]1,542[/td][td]4,345[/td][td].355[/td][/tr][tr][td]17[/td][td]Nick Van Exel[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Los Angeles Lakers  (1993–1998)
Denver Nuggets  (1999–2002)
Dallas Mavericks  (2002–2003)
Golden State Warriors  (2003–2004)
Portland Trail Blazers  (2004–2005)
San Antonio Spurs  (2005–2006)[/td][td]1,528[/td][td]4,278[/td][td].357[/td][/tr][tr][td]18[/td][td]Mike Bibby[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PG[/td][td]Vancouver Grizzlies  (1999–2001)
Sacramento Kings  (2001–2008)
Atlanta Hawks  (2008–2011)
Washington Wizards  (2011)
Miami Heat  (2011)
New York Knicks  (2011–2012)[/td][td]1,517[/td][td]3,999[/td][td].379[/td][/tr][tr][td]19[/td][td]Michael Finley[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SG[/td][td]Phoenix Suns  (1995–1996)
Dallas Mavericks  (1996–2005)
San Antonio Spurs  (2005–2010)
Boston Celtics  (2010)[/td][td]1,454[/td][td]3,880[/td][td].375[/td][/tr][tr][td]20[/td][td]Jamal Crawford^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Chicago Bulls  (2000–2004)
New York Knicks  (2004–2008)
Golden State Warriors  (2008–2009)
Atlanta Hawks  (2009–2011)
Portland Trail Blazers  (2011–2012)
Los Angeles Clippers  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,428[/td][td]4,095[/td][td].349[/td][/tr][tr][td]21[/td][td]Brent Barry[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SG[/td][td]Los Angeles Clippers  (1995–1998)
Miami Heat  (1998)
Chicago Bulls  (1999)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1999–2004)
San Antonio Spurs  (2004–2008)
Houston Rockets  (2008–2009)[/td][td]1,395[/td][td]3,442[/td][td].405[/td][/tr][tr][td]22[/td][td]Antoine Walker[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SF[/td][td]Boston Celtics  (1996–2003)
Dallas Mavericks  (2003–2004)
Atlanta Hawks  (2004–2005)
Boston Celtics  (2005)
Miami Heat  (2005–2007)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (2007–2008)[/td][td]1,386[/td][td]4,264[/td][td].325[/td][/tr][tr][td]23[/td][td]Mike Miller^[/td][td]SG/SF[/td][td]Orlando Magic  (2000–2003)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2003–2008)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (2008–2009)
Washington Wizards  (2009–2010)
Miami Heat  (2010–present)[/td][td]1,367[/td][td]3,371[/td][td].406[/td][/tr][tr][td]24[/td][td]Dan Majerle[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Phoenix Suns  (1988–1995)
Cleveland Cavaliers  (1995–1996)
Miami Heat  (1996–2001)
Phoenix Suns  (2001–2002)[/td][td]1,360[/td][td]3,798[/td][td].358[/td][/tr][tr][td]25[/td][td]Baron Davis[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PG[/td][td]Charlotte/New Orleans Hornets  (1999–2005)
Golden State Warriors  (2005–2008)
Los Angeles Clippers  (2008–2011)
Cleveland Cavaliers  (2011)
New York Knicks  (2012)[/td][td]1,332[/td][td]4,159[/td][td].320[/td][/tr][tr][td]26[/td][td]Mitch Richmond[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Golden State Warriors  (1988–1991)
Sacramento Kings  (1991–1998)
Washington Wizards  (1998–2001)
Los Angeles Lakers  (2001–2002)[/td][td]1,326[/td][td]3,419[/td][td].388[/td][/tr][tr][td]27[/td][td]Joe Johnson^[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Boston Celtics  (2001–2002)
Phoenix Suns  (2002–2005)
Atlanta Hawks  (2005–2012)
Brooklyn Nets  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,316[/td][td]3,578[/td][td].368[/td][/tr][tr][td]28[/td][td]Allan Houston[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Detroit Pistons  (1993–1996)
New York Knicks  (1996–2005)[/td][td]1,305[/td][td]3,247[/td][td].402[/td][/tr][tr][td]29[/td][td]Terry Porter[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Portland Trail Blazers  (1985–1995)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (1995–1998)
Miami Heat  (1999)
San Antonio Spurs  (1999–2002)[/td][td]1,297[/td][td]3,360[/td][td].386[/td][/tr][tr][td]30[/td][td]Daron "Mookie" Blaylock[/td][td]PG[/td][td]New Jersey Nets  (1989–1992)
Atlanta Hawks  (1992–1999)
Golden State Warriors  (1999–2002)[/td][td]1,283[/td][td]3,816[/td][td].336[/td][/tr][tr][td]31[/td][td]Dirk Nowitzki^[/td][td]PF[/td][td]Dallas Mavericks  (1999–present)[/td][td]1,275[/td][td]3,357[/td][td].380[/td][/tr][tr][td]32[/td][td]Vernon Maxwell[/td][td]SG[/td][td]San Antonio Spurs  (1988–1990)
Houston Rockets  (1990–1995)
Philadelphia 76ers  (1995–1996)
San Antonio Spurs  (1996–1997)
Orlando Magic  (1998)
Charlotte Hornets  (1998)
Sacramento Kings  (1999)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1999–2000)
Philadelphia 76ers  (2000)
Dallas Mavericks  (2001)[/td][td]1,256[/td][td]3,931[/td][td].320[/td][/tr][tr][td]33[/td][td]Clifford R. Robinson[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PF[/td][td]Portland Trail Blazers  (1989–1997)
Phoenix Suns  (1997–2001)
Detroit Pistons  (2001–2003)
Golden State Warriors  (2003–2005)
New Jersey Nets  (2005–2007)[/td][td]1,253[/td][td]3,515[/td][td].356[/td][/tr][tr][td]34[/td][td]Dell Curry[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Utah Jazz  (1986–1987)
Cleveland Cavaliers  (1987–1988)
Charlotte Hornets  (1988–1998)
Milwaukee Bucks  (1999)
Toronto Raptors  (1999–2002)[/td][td]1,245[/td][td]3,098[/td][td].402[/td][/tr][tr][td]35[/td][td]Jason Williams[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PG[/td][td]Sacramento Kings  (1999–2001)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2001–2005)
Miami Heat  (2005–2008)
Orlando Magic  (2009–2011)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2011)[/td][td]1,238[/td][td]3,784[/td][td].327[/td][/tr][tr][td]36[/td][td]Damon Stoudamire[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PG[/td][td]Toronto Raptors  (1995–1998)
Portland Trail Blazers  (1998–2005)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2005–2007)
San Antonio Spurs  (2008)[/td][td]1,236[/td][td]3,464[/td][td].357[/td][/tr][tr][td]37[/td][td]Hersey Hawkins[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Philadelphia 76ers  (1988–1993)
Charlotte Hornets  (1993–1995)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1995–1999)
Chicago Bulls  (1999–2000)
Charlotte Hornets  (2000–2001)[/td][td]1,226[/td][td]3,108[/td][td].394[/td][/tr][tr][td]38[/td][td]John Starks[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Golden State Warriors  (1988–1989)
New York Knicks  (1990–1998)
Golden State Warriors  (1999–2000)
Chicago Bulls  (2000)
Utah Jazz  (2000–2002)[/td][td]1,222[/td][td]3,591[/td][td].340[/td][/tr][tr][td]39[/td][td]Chuck Person[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Indiana Pacers  (1986–1992)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (1992–1994)
San Antonio Spurs  (1994–1998)
Charlotte Hornets  (1999)
Seattle SuperSonics  (1999–2000)[/td][td]1,220[/td][td]3,370[/td][td].362[/td][/tr][tr][td]40[/td][td]Stephen Jackson^[/td][td]SG/SF[/td][td]New Jersey Nets  (2000–2001)
San Antonio Spurs  (2001–2003)
Atlanta Hawks  (2003–2004)
Indiana Pacers  (2004–2007)
Golden State Warriors  (2007–2009)
Charlotte Bobcats  (2009–2011)
Milwaukee Bucks  (2011–2012)
San Antonio Spurs  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,215[/td][td]3,614[/td][td].336[/td][/tr][tr][td]41[/td][td]Dennis Scott[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Orlando Magic  (1990–1997)
Dallas Mavericks  (1997–1998)
Phoenix Suns  (1998)
New York Knicks  (1999)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (1999)
Vancouver Grizzlies  (1999–2000)[/td][td]1,214[/td][td]3,060[/td][td].397[/td][/tr][tr][td]42[/td][td]Kyle Korver^[/td][td]SG/SF[/td][td]Philadelphia 76ers  (2003–2007)
Utah Jazz  (2007–2010)
Chicago Bulls  (2010–2012)
Atlanta Hawks  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,168[/td][td]2,824[/td][td].414[/td][/tr][tr][td]43[/td][td]Quentin Richardson[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SG[/td][td]Los Angeles Clippers  (2000–2004)
Phoenix Suns  (2004–2005)
New York Knicks  (2005–2009)
Miami Heat  (2009–2010)
Orlando Magic  (2010–2012)[/td][td]1,166[/td][td]3,284[/td][td].355[/td][/tr][tr][td]44[/td][td]Hedo Türkoğlu^[/td][td]SF[/td][td]Sacramento Kings  (2000–2003)
San Antonio Spurs  (2003–2004)
Orlando Magic  (2004–2009)
Toronto Raptors  (2009–2010)
Phoenix Suns  (2010)
Orlando Magic  (2010–present)[/td][td]1,163[/td][td]3,034[/td][td].383[/td][/tr][tr][td]45[/td][td]Wesley Person[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Phoenix Suns  (1994–1997)
Cleveland Cavaliers  (1997–2002)
Memphis Grizzlies  (2002–2003)
Portland Trail Blazers  (2003–2004)
Atlanta Hawks  (2004)
Miami Heat  (2004–2005)
Denver Nuggets  (2005)[/td][td]1,150[/td][td]2,754[/td][td].418[/td][/tr][tr][td]46[/td][td]Steve Smith[/td][td]SG[/td][td]Miami Heat  (1991–1994)
Atlanta Hawks  (1994–1999)
Portland Trail Blazers  (1999–2001)
San Antonio Spurs  (2001–2003)
New Orleans Hornets  (2003)
Charlotte Bobcats  (2004–2005)
Miami Heat  (2005)[/td][td]1,148[/td][td]3,208[/td][td].358[/td][/tr][tr][td]47[/td][td]Derek Fisher^[/td][td]PG[/td][td]Los Angeles Lakers  (1996–2004)
Golden State Warriors  (2004–2006)
Utah Jazz  (2006–2007)
Los Angeles Lakers  (2007–2012)
Oklahoma City Thunder  (2012)
Dallas Mavericks  (2012–present)[/td][td]1,134[/td][td]3,041[/td][td].373[/td][/tr][tr][td]48[/td][td]Gary Payton[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]PG[/td][td]Seattle SuperSonics  (1990–2003)
Milwaukee Bucks  (2003)
Los Angeles Lakers  (2003–2004)
Boston Celtics  (2004–2005)
Miami Heat  (2005–2007)[/td][td]1,132[/td][td]3,570[/td][td].317[/td][/tr][tr][td]49[/td][td]David Wesley[sup]†[/sup][/td][td]SG[/td][td]New Jersey Nets  (1993–1994)
Boston Celtics  (1994–1997)
Charlotte/New Orleans Hornets  (1997–2004)
Houston Rockets  (2004–2006)
Cleveland Cavaliers  (2006–2007)[/td][td]1,123[/td][td]3,051[/td][td].368[/td][/tr][tr][td]50[/td][td]Latrell Sprewell[/td][td]SG/SF[/td][td]Golden State Warriors  (1992–1997)
New York Knicks  (1999–2003)
Minnesota Timberwolves  (2003–2005)[/td][td]1,104[/td][td]3,272[/td][td].337[/td][/tr][/table]

He left Kobe in the DUST.

 

[CP1708]

Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.

 

[goldenchild9]

Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.

Whats so funny about that besides the fact that you're a Lakers/Kobe fan?

What is Kobe better at than J-Kidd besides scoring inside the 3 point line?

Tell me passing, defending, rebounding or leading a team and anyone that knows basketball will laugh at you.

Put this 39 year old J Kidd, with all of his athletic ability gone, on the current lakers roster and they would have more wins than they have now. He would be spoon feeding Dwight the rock, only giving it to MWP when he's in a position to score, tutoring the young guards on the fly, pushing the tempo, igniting the defense etc.

Kobe has done virtually nothing to make his teammates better, more productive players this season.

 

[menacin methods]

Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.

Whats so funny about that besides the fact that you're a Lakers/Kobe fan?

What is Kobe better at than J-Kidd besides scoring inside the 3 point line?

Tell me passing, defending, rebounding or leading a team and anyone that knows basketball will laugh at you.

Put this 39 year old J Kidd, with all of his athletic ability gone, on the current lakers roster and they would have more wins than they have now. He would be spoon feeding Dwight the rock, only giving it to MWP when he's in a position to score, tutoring the young guards on the fly, pushing the tempo, igniting the defense etc.

Kobe has done virtually nothing to make his teammates better, more productive players this season.

Hadouken!



Don't forget Isiah Thomas! He's also better than Kobe Bryant!

 

[darthdeezy]

Ok this is getting out of hand.
Put Kidd or Zeke in place of Kobe on that three peat squad and that repeat squad.
Would the outcome be the same. So who's better in that aspect?

You guys went off topic.

 

[goldenchild9]

Prime Zeke and Prime Shaq/Prime Kidd and Prime Shaq with a decent SG in place of Kobe (a solid 15/5 player, not an allstar), with a run and gun coach that stresses defense and PG play like Riley, Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan (Phil wouldn't have been hired with a HoF PG)....they would've had a dynasty without question.

They might've even had more rings because of they couldv'e gotten there sooner than Kobe & Shaq due to them not floundering in the Pre-Phil years and they may have lasted longer as a duo in their primes to greater results....see the longevity and success of Parker and Duncan.

Of course all of that is hypothetical but knowing the force that Shaq was in those years and the championship greatness of Kidd and Zeke, I see no reason that they wouldn't win multiple chips playing with a prime Shaq and the Lakers supporting cast.

Jason Kidd made Kenyon Martin, Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn and Richard Jefferson look like much better players than they really were. They all ended up getting big contracts (except Kerry who retired) and when they left Jason and NJ....their true talent levels were quickly exposed.

Zeke has some of the best playoff performances in history and is close to a top 15 player in his own right. Dude is a back to back champion in the greatest era of basketball, knocking Magic off the throne and delaying MJ's greatness, tallying 27, 7 and 5 averages in the Finals. You're deluded if you don't think him and Shaq would've won mutliple rings together.

 

[jumpmanpro97]

Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant in assists.

fixed

 

[darthska]

[quote name="CP1708"]Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.
[/quote]Did you bother to read the argument, though?

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Kobe Bryant getting 50 wins and going into the playoffs in the Western Conference when it was extremely deep with Jordan Farmar, Smush Parker, Kwame and Luke Walton>>>>>J Kidd going to finals with a solid cast of guys when the East was putrid.

I understand your point man, but Kidd just simply isn't better than Kobe was...Gotta score to win games and Kobe is the second best perimeter scorer ever. And he was a really good lock down defender through his 20's and an excellent re bounder when the time called for it (15 reb in game 7, 2010).

 

[menacin methods]

[quote name="CP1708"]Jason Kidd > Kobe Bryant.

Did you bother to read the argument, though?[/quote]

Do you guys think the Lakers could of won with Kidd in 09 and 10 instead of Kobe?

 

[Hunnynutcheerios]

this cant be real life smh 

 

[goldenchild9]

Kobe Bryant getting 50 wins and going into the playoffs in the Western Conference when it was extremely deep with Jordan Farmar, Smush Parker, Kwame and Luke Walton>>>>>J Kidd going to finals with a solid cast of guys when the East was putrid.

I understand your point man, but Kidd just simply isn't better than Kobe was...Gotta score to win games and Kobe is the second best perimeter scorer ever. And he was a really good lock down defender through his 20's and an excellent re bounder when the time called for it (15 reb in game 7, 2010).

We gonna have to agree to disagree on that.

I value a player with the all-around talents of J-Kidd more than I do Kobe's scoring prowess. Scoring wins games but scoring comes in various ways....doesn't always have to come from one star perimeter player. That has actually proven to be the least likely way to championship. It's more efficient when it comes from a variety of players and you have a floor general who can ensure that this consistently happens by setting up teammates and guiding the offense. See the Steve Nash lead Phoenix team that knocked out Kobe's high scoring show in the first round that year.

Kidd is a better defender over his career at his position and to this point in this season (even though he's much older and less athletic) and he is a better rebounder than Kobe no debate needed (numbers speak for themselves). Better leader and higher Ball IQ as well.

 

[presequel]

what role player has left the lakers and flourished without playing next to kobe?

first person that comes to mind is caron butler.

but anyone else? brian cook? chucky atkins? tierre browm? kwame? devean george? slava? mihm? smush? turiaf? walton? evans? farmer? sasha? ariza? crittenton? mbenga? fisher? shannon brown?

theres a knock on kobe he doesn't make players better, but im sure all those players, and many more not listed, enjoyed career years for themselves while playing with kobe, not without. they were actually role players on the lakers. off the lakers? many couldn't make it and stay in the league after.

kobe may not be a playmaker like jason kidd, but lets not make kobe out to be the worst teammate of all time.

 

[presequel]

It's more efficient when it comes from a variety of players and you have a floor general who can ensure that this consistently happens by setting up teammates and guiding the offense.

Or, the triangle offense that featured Kobe and Jordan, and doesn't require a traditional point guard/floor general. They were still deadly scorers without the need to be the focal floor general.

 

[goldenchild9]

Those players didn't look good playing with Kobe either.

Come on now man...you're OD'ing now....Kobe made Slava and Mbenga look like good players?

They were trash with him, trash without him.

Shannon was a high flying inconsistent young talent then...he's the same now, just a lil older.

Chucky Atkins was a journeyman when he came to the Lakers and when he left.

Kwame is Kwame.

Turiaf gave the Knicks that same spark as the Lakers

Fisher fit into Phil's system perfectly and gave his entire career to the organization. How impressive is a 40 y/o PG supposed to look?

These players are what they are, regardless of Kobe.

The only player you can make a case for is Ariza and its more like he was playing out his mind to get that ring and a big contract, then he got shipped to struggling teams and couldn't replicate the same effect. We've seen that too many times to mention. But he probably was able to go off more as a slashing perimeter player because of all the attention Kobe got from defenses.

Look at a 39 year old Kidd, though....after every game he is the first person praised by his much younger teammates for personally helping them to perform better. Everywhere he goes he is labeled a coach on the floor. He takes players under the wing and imparts his knowledge and experience onto them instead of telling them to "put on their big boy pants" or throwing them under the bus like Kobe did Kwame and Smush.

 

[acbboyz84]

LMAO this thread still alive?

Did someone really said Jkidd made it to the Finals on the crappy Eastern conference was more impressive than Kobe? What a joke.

The Western teams like the Spurs, Portland, Kings from 2000-2003 could have made the Finals with ease if they were to play on the Eastern conference.

The Eastern conference was putrid. Teams like the 02 Boston made it to 7 games with the Nets lmao.

Only on the East conference where mediocre team like 00 Pacers, 01 Philly, 02-03 Nets, 07 Cavs can sniff the Finals.

Kobe is top 5 SG to ever play the game. Top 10 All time. 17 years and still putting up 25ppg while being the primary ball handler. All of Kobe peers are either washed up or out the league. Only the strong survive and Kobe is the testament of that.

Every player is different and play differently. That's why this game is great. You can't tell a player how to play the game base on one model. Otherwise basketball would be a one dimension sport.

 

[goldenchild9]

Nice way to just jumble up and misquote the discussion on the last 2 pages so that you can repeat the same career achievements that have been repeated over and over again.

Did someone really said Jkidd made it to the Finals on the crappy Eastern conference was more impressive than Kobe? What a joke.

Nah, no one said this.

Try again.

 

[goldenchild9]

.....

 

[darthska]

Do you guys think the Lakers could of won with Kidd in 09 and 10 instead of Kobe?

Do I think Kidd could have just been dropped right onto that team and we still win the finals without Kobe? I can't say that. But do I think that if we had Kidd for a while before that and a team was built around him and Shaq and then him and Pau and Bynum, we would have won those championships? Yes, yes I do think that.

 

[acbboyz84]

Those players didn't look good playing with Kobe either.
Come on now man...you're OD'ing now....Kobe made Slava and Mbenga look like good players?

They were trash with him, trash without him.
Shannon was a high flying inconsistent young talent then...he's the same now, just a lil older.
Chucky Atkins was a journeyman when he came to the Lakers and when he left.
Kwame is Kwame.
Turiaf gave the Knicks that same spark as the Lakers
Fisher fit into Phil's system perfectly and gave his entire career to the organization. How impressive is a 40 y/o PG supposed to look?
These players are what they are, regardless of Kobe.
The only player you can make a case for is Ariza and its more like he was playing out his mind to get that ring and a big contract, then he got shipped to struggling teams and couldn't replicate the same effect. We've seen that too many times to mention. But he probably was able to go off more as a slashing perimeter player because of all the attention Kobe got from defenses.
Look at a 39 year old Kidd, though....after every game he is the first person praised by his much younger teammates for personally helping them to perform better. Everywhere he goes he is labeled a coach on the floor. He takes players under the wing and imparts his knowledge and experience onto them instead of telling them to "put on their big boy pants" or throwing them under the bus like Kobe did Kwame and Smush.

You must be a Knicks fan?

All of sudden Jkidd is suppose to be better than Kobe lol

How many teams has Jkidd played for? Nobody want Jkidd as their franchise player. That right there tell a lot about Jkidd ability lol.

Jkidd wouldnt dare to tell anyone to put on their big boy pant simply because he doesn't have the resume to back it up.

Jkidd sure helped a lot of players perform better. They played so good that Jkidd didn't win a damn ring until he's almost 40 lol.

Jkidd is also so better than Kobe that team are can't wait but to trade him as soon as they get an offer lol.

 

[menacin methods]

Do you guys think the Lakers could of won with Kidd in 09 and 10 instead of Kobe?

Do I think Kidd could have just been dropped right onto that team and we still win the finals without Kobe? I can't say that. But do I think that if we had Kidd for a while before that and a team was built around him and Shaq and then him and Pau and Bynum, we would have won those championships? Yes, yes I do think that.

I agree with you. It's hard to admit that because I LOVE Kobe Bryant.

 

[goldenchild9]

Those players didn't look good playing with Kobe either.

Come on now man...you're OD'ing now....Kobe made Slava and Mbenga look like good players?

They were trash with him, trash without him.

Shannon was a high flying inconsistent young talent then...he's the same now, just a lil older.

Chucky Atkins was a journeyman when he came to the Lakers and when he left.

Kwame is Kwame.

Turiaf gave the Knicks that same spark as the Lakers

Fisher fit into Phil's system perfectly and gave his entire career to the organization. How impressive is a 40 y/o PG supposed to look?

These players are what they are, regardless of Kobe.

The only player you can make a case for is Ariza and its more like he was playing out his mind to get that ring and a big contract, then he got shipped to struggling teams and couldn't replicate the same effect. We've seen that too many times to mention. But he probably was able to go off more as a slashing perimeter player because of all the attention Kobe got from defenses.

Look at a 39 year old Kidd, though....after every game he is the first person praised by his much younger teammates for personally helping them to perform better. Everywhere he goes he is labeled a coach on the floor. He takes players under the wing and imparts his knowledge and experience onto them instead of telling them to "put on their big boy pants" or throwing them under the bus like Kobe did Kwame and Smush.

You must be a Knicks fan?

All of sudden Jkidd is suppose to be better than Kobe lol

How many teams has Jkidd played for? Nobody want Jkidd as their franchise player. That right there tell a lot about Jkidd ability lol.

Jkidd wouldnt dare to tell anyone to put on their big boy pant simply because he doesn't have the resume to back it up.

Jkidd sure helped a lot of players perform better. They played so good that Jkidd didn't win a damn ring until he's almost 40 lol.

Jkidd is also so better than Kobe that team are can't wait but to trade him as soon as they get an offer lol.

Need I say more?

 

[acbboyz84]

Nice way to just jumble up and misquote the discussion on the last 2 pages so that you can repeat the same career achievements that have been repeated over and over again.
Nah, no one said this.
Try again.

You said Jkidd lead the Nets to the Finals as if making the Finals while playing on the East was something spectacular.

I'll say it again. The East from 00-03 was putrid. If the 01 Kings were to play on the East. They would have made the Finals with ease at 5 games max per series.

 

[jumpmanfromdabay]

 

[goldenchild9]

Nice way to just jumble up and misquote the discussion on the last 2 pages so that you can repeat the same career achievements that have been repeated over and over again.

Nah, no one said this.

Try again.

You said Jkidd lead the Nets to the Finals as if making the Finals while playing on the East was something spectacular.

I'll say it again. The East from 00-03 was putrid. If the 01 Kings were to play on the East. They would have made the Finals with ease at 5 games max per series.

And the '01 Kings team making it to the Finals in the Eastern Conference would indicate that Kobe is a better player than Jason Kidd was, how?


Looking at your avy I can tell why your posts sound so rabid and nonsensical but take a deep breath and try to keep up with the discussion.