Kobe II in retrospect

[theprocessofbelief]

Originally Posted by chris chicago

Nike as a company is very very successful. Much bigger/more profitable than adidas. That should be a mute point. And historically they are the very best at marketing. Really the areas where they may show weakness are 1)nike basketball (excluding jb). 2) what they've done with kobe (including the zk3 which is hilarious) . 3) running.

there are probably more. but both nike fans and haterz should just drop the who's a better company overall. adidas may be gaining, or may catch them inthe future. but over the course of history nike is the clear victor at making money.

of course, this is mostly b/c adidas passed on mj. lol.

I would say running would be Nike's most problematic area. It is getting hard for them to compete with the likes of Asics and New Balance.

 

[kb8virginia]

TO PUT IT SHORT, NIKE DID A HELL OF A JOB IN NOT PROMOTING KOBE'S SHOE. MARKETING WAS ZERO! NADA! HAVE YOU SEEN ANY KOBE COMMERCIALS WITH THE KOBE 2'S?HAVE YOU? YEAH, HE HAD APPEARANCES IN SOME MALLS FOR THE SHOE LAUNCHING ETC....HERE IN THE STATES THEN WHAT?! NIKE MADE GOOD MARKETING PROMOS OUTSIDE OF THEU.S....ESPECIALLY ASIA WHERE KOBE IS MORE POPULAR THAN ANY NBA PLAYER.
IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO ONE THING FRIENDS..... MARKETING. WE DON'T SEE "You don't wanna be like me, you wanna be better than me" THING FROMKOBE... NO NOTHING. THAT'S WHY THE CONCEPT DID NOT MATERIALIZE. WHY? YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE. DID IT GOT TO DO WITH HIS BROUHAHA WANNA BE TRADEDTHING BEFORE THE SEASON STARTED? MAYBE...... KOBE SHOULD MOVE TO ANOTHER SHOE COMPANY..... NO MATTER WHERE, REEBOK, NEW BALANCE, LI-NING WHEREVER....AS LONG ASHE'S BEING VALUED AND TAKEN CARED OF...

 

[goosebear10]

you dont see the "you dont wanna be like me,you wanna better than me" line from kobe because he wont ever let you be better than him ahahahhahahahahaanyways while kobe does need more love from the marketing department,If this last summer with the whole trade me business didnt happen we probably would haveseen something come up but unfortunately after this last summer along with the bynum video,he kind of got portrayed as a typical whiny spoiled player.If we seehim get through this year and a great showing in the olympics without any incident we'll probably see something big next season.

 

[john23friend85]

Originally Posted by Mister Jack Johnson

My thoughts:
It was a flop.

you wanna talk about flops, lets talk about these




takes 5 alright, take all 5 for less than $100.

you may view Kobes as a flop but they do a hell of a lot better then anything adidas puts out

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

Mister Jack, I'm not here to change your mind on anything. My company has more important things to do, along with myself. You're certainly entitled to your own OPINION, which is just that, YOUR OWN opinion. I'll just state the facts that mostly everyone is aware of and leave it at that.

FACTS:

We are a 16.3 billion dollar company for a reason. It's not by accident! That is certainly a heck of a lot of money to be saying we "suck". It is because we know how to capitalize on our key growth areas such as Nike Basketball. adidas basketball fails in comparison to Nike Basketball, PERIOD. adidas may be doing "well" as far as "their standards", but we'll always be ahead as far as revenue. Why? Because adidas does NOT know how to market their players very well, either overseas or here in the U.S. . adidas cannot generate any "buzz" whatsoever in the retail field like Nike can. No one stands in line for the next kevin garnett/tim duncan shoe, because quite frankly, there IS NO line for the release of their shoes. Their marketing department is poor along with very weak advertising campaigns. Take a look at the adidas basketball roster and take a look at Nike's roster. Pretty big difference there as far as marketability huh?

There is nothing worse than someone filled with such pretense and assumptions, one who suggests superiority based upon numbers, then ads alone.

All this really proves is that YOU fill the market with crap, in order for people to take notice. Nikes rep isn't about quality, it is about quantity. Aslong as you get attention, it's cool, well guess what? Things that are shallow, often ring hollow. In some instances, it is considered 'puffery',as people like me, those who see value in QUALITY, will stay away from cheap overly produced product.

Nike and Footlockers opening of the House of Hoops in Harlem, is an example of this. You open something like this in a predominantly Black area, but wouldnever consider doing so in, let's say, any WHITE suburb.

So in closing, Nike stoops to conquer. It is an insidious way of disguising dishonesty. It's a ploy that'll soon backfire when people realize that atthe end of the day, Nike is just a brand filled with, then endorsed by, a bunch of arrogantly garbed, pretentious pricks.

BTW, how's business in Harlem?

To quote Starbury,
"I'd rather own, than be owned."

Word is bond. I wear my clothes, my clothes don't wear me.

Too bad Kobes' 3 shoe thing didn't come to fruition, or perhaps, too good!

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by john23friend85

Originally Posted by Mister Jack Johnson

My thoughts:
It was a flop.

you wanna talk about flops, lets talk about these




takes 5 alright, take all 5 for less than $100.

you may view Kobes as a flop but they do a hell of a lot better then anything adidas puts out

Again, I don't work for adidas, nor do I need to defend them. My point is Kobe's shoes and the concept which FAILED.

BTW, I'd never wear anything pictured above, but hey some of you wear some garb that is questionable and then unkind to the naked eye as well.

I've seen those "what did u wear today", posts on here. Some of you outta be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[goosebear10]

Originally Posted by Mister Jack Johnson

There is nothing worse than someone filled with such pretense and assumptions, one who suggests superiority based upon numbers, then ads alone. All this really proves is that YOU fill the market with crap, in order for people to take notice. Nikes rep isn't about quality, it is about quantity. As long as you get attention, it's cool, well guess what? Things that are shallow, often ring hollow. In some instances, it is considered 'puffery', as people like me, those who see value in QUALITY, will stay away from cheap overly produced product.

Nike and Footlockers opening of the House of Hoops in Harlem, is an example of this. You open something like this in a predominantly Black area, but would never consider doing so in, let's say, any WHITE suburb.

So in closing, Nike stoops to conquer. It is an insidious way of disguising dishonesty. It's a ploy that'll soon backfire when people realize that at the end of the day, Nike is just a brand filled with, then endorsed by, a bunch of arrogantly garbed, pretentious pricks.

BTW, how's business in Harlem?

To quote Starbury,
"I'd rather own, than be owned."

Word is bond. I wear my clothes, my clothes don't wear me.

Too bad Kobes' 3 shoe thing didn't come to fruition, or perhaps, too good!

*checks watch*...Oh look what time it is!!!!!Time for a totally unrelated issue of putting a store in a predominantly african american neighborhood versusa white suburb.

 

[kidskillz858]

All I have to say is just like what happened with the ZKI and is now happening with the ZKIII.

A lot fools on NT saw early & sample pics here on NT and said stuff like "Horrible" "Trash" "I will never cop a pair" .

Guess what the same fools who were talking all that trash end up buying at least 1 pair if not multiple pairs of the ZKI & ZKII's.

 

[never wear them]

WOW 4 PAGES!!! I KNOW ITS NOT ON THE TOPIC OF MATTER FOR SURE!!!
MR JACK, JUST DROP IT. WHY DO YOU INSIST ON FIGHTING BACK. I WOULD BE ON YOUR SIDE AND DEFENDING YOUR OPINION ONLY IF ADIDAS KEPT MAKING SHOES LIKE THESE.... IKNOW THAT THESE SHOES MIGHT NOT BE UP TO PAR WITH NIKE'S TECHNOLOGY BUT HAD THAT LOOK THAT MADE ME WANT THEM....
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ADIDAS....

, ,

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(MESH ONLY) ,,,

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I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN AN ADIDAS THAT HAS CAUGHT ME OFF GUARD LIKE BEFORE. AND YES I OWNED ALL OF THESE SHOES THAT I POSTED AND IN OTHER COLORS AS WELL. Therewas a point where i only wore ADIDAS, maybe because i went to private high school where we could only wear adidas and of course there is soccer...
i support adidas when it comes to soccer. i hate nike cleats, puma, umbro. adidas did it for me when it came to soccer and for football. OVERALL, I WOULDCHOOSE ADIDAS OVER NIKE WHEN IT COMES TO SPORT GEAR. NOT SHOES... BUT CLEATS, WINDBREAKERS, CLOTHING, SHIN GUARDS, PADS...ETC.

 

[stokleythegr8]

Wow i've been a member for years and i always laugh at how a thread will start and escalade to something off the subject ... Anyway the 2's were agreat shoe to ball in .. Im not really one for buying new kicks and putting them directly on the court but these KOBE's were a great pair of kicks to ballin and as far as marketing coming from a former NIKE worker some of the stuff nike does isn't always quite understandable maybe this year they will get itright... The shoes did get pushed back till feb but at least we'll get them a little earlier this year so hopefully well get some real PE colorways forpeople to argue over on NIKETALK .. Anyway just my opinion
YA DIG ...

 

[d e beatup]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

FACTS:

No one stands in line for the next kevin garnett/tim duncan shoe, because quite frankly, there IS NO line for the release of their shoes.

Umm, correct me if I'm wrong but exactly what Nike models are people lining up for because I sure don't rememberany. With the exception of AF1's & certain retros, I've never heard of anyone lining up to purchase a Nike hoop or any shoe, unless it be alimited hypebeast deal. But your point was taken though.

 

[Tummy Arashikage]

I actually liked the Adidas Undercrown editions.... Anyway, Jack Johnson is right in more ways than one. He's bringing up the whole picture of the Kobe II,not just performance but overall how it apparently did in the market and how it did not should I say for the rest of the series I actually like the strengths,but I don't even own a pair... Ultimates are good for balling but the blk/yellow are like majorly discounted in certain areas. This shoe was not an instantseller, and still remains in most footwear chains' shelves. It's true in a sense what Jack Johnson brought up and if read carefully of what he says youmight actually agree. And most people(myself included) who are fans of KB bought it and totally liked it, being borderline delusional yet it ain't all thatfor a sig shoe for a player that is a true fact. People who hate Kobe would not buy it because of the namesake and double whammy because it's not thatgreat of a shoe, it's designed to what KOBE likes and not what the people like or find comfortable, bottomline who actually wears the nonbasketballhuaraches(past/present) on the court ahem also Zoom 64 Huaraches ahem... I don't care for lebron but man are those IV's insane and I sure as heck wearit and love it.... Remember some ZK1's are on sale on ross and marshalls/T.J. Maxx, sorry I just couldn't hold myself from saying that. Anyway if youtotally disagree on what he's saying then just pretend he is speaking out of his$%%+!... Back to the norm everyone...

 

[duke4005]

Don't take this wrong, please, but does any one know if Menof Oregon actually works for Nike, and if so, what his position is?

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by duke4005

Don't take this wrong, please, but does any one know if Menof Oregon actually works for Nike, and if so, what his position is?

That individual is exactly what Nike wants in their ranks. His comments border on the most pretentious and bigoted avenues of retail. His thoughtprocess reps the reason that people of color are being followed around, as soon as they hit the door at the HOH. He also displays the exposed mindset of theNikeTown in Chicago, 'nuff said about him. I HOPE that he keeps a gig with Nike, just for fodder.

People like that who work for Nike, those who act in this manner, is the reason I love seeing Nike fail. It is, contrary to popular opinion, not because I loveAdidas. I use their ad as a sig, because I believe in it. I have made more friends thru Ball, than I care to count. My friends are made up of all racialbackgrounds, religions and denominations. I can state emphatically that I would NOT have met many of these people, if it were not for Hoops.

That said, for me, Basketball IS a Brotherhood.

Now, Kobes' three shoe thing made no sense in the beginning, but for Nike to run with it, shows how GREED can motivate people to do some stupid things.

Nike can afford to make such mistakes, but it sends a bad WASTEFUL message. They operate just like any other conglomerate, but here is the thing...

...quality then becomes a question.

Is Nike about making good stuff, or are they simply about the bottom line?

Kobe hasn't had a hit with Nike yet here in the States. His first shoe SUCKED, and the next, the II, has flopped as a concept as well.

So now I get all kinds of stuff thrown at me, because I am simply telling the truth.

Well if Nike were so secure, there'd be no need to throw shade.

 

[chris chicago]

I'd argue that nike is pretty secure. it's really the superfanz that get heated. Though I do remember a designer (alphaproject?) coming on here a fewyears back and loosing his cool in defense of the swoosh.

I mean if you're the head of nike basketball, you're probably not going to bother bragging about how people line up for your sneaks. and if it'sstruggling a little ... You're going to listen to peoples criticism, judge which have merit and use the info as you go forward .. because that's whatgot you to your high level position in the first place.

 

[sarteaga0408]

To be real Nike could care less about Kobe's sales in the states. His sales in Asia more than make up for it, he outsells all sigs. in Asia and wellthere's a lot more consumers in Asia so whether the shoe sells or not in the states can matter very little to Nike. Figures show that the Kobe line couldonly be released in Asia and would still be considered a successful release.

 

[kb8virginia]

Mr Jack Johnson wrote:

Kobe hasn't had a hit with Nike yet here in the States. His first shoe SUCKED, and the next, the II, has flopped as a concept as well.
I totally disagree that the Zoom Kobe 1 SUCKED if that was the shoe you were referring to. And probably yes, the ZKII flopped as a CONCEPT but notthe design and performance of the shoe definitely

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by chris chicago

I'd argue that nike is pretty secure. it's really the superfanz that get heated. Though I do remember a designer (alphaproject?) coming on here a few years back and loosing his cool in defense of the swoosh.

I mean if you're the head of nike basketball, you're probably not going to bother bragging about how people line up for your sneaks. and if it's struggling a little ... You're going to listen to peoples criticism, judge which have merit and use the info as you go forward .. because that's what got you to your high level position in the first place.

Oh that designer was too funny! Talkin' a whole lotta smack! Outside of Billy Hoyle, he's another that I'd love to have a "conversation", with!

You are right Nike is secure! It is the "sycophants of the swoosh", who are the aggressors here. I am sure that in their attempt to become the nextcat picked off of Nike Talk, one to aimlessly wander the halls of the swoosh, they find solice in likemindedness of their allies.

Who am I to come in and ruffle feathers, then state the truth in a Democratic forum?

The ZKII failed, is that a problem for some to admit? From where I sit, it seems so!

 

[kb8virginia]

You're entitled to your own opinion Mr. Jack. IMO, the ZKII did not fail and no one needs to admit anything

 

[kb8virginia]

How can a shoe sale good in the market without proper advertising and publicity....end of story

 

[vanexellent]

wow...you can totally make Coach Hubie's post disappear! I mean you still see that he did post numerous times and can only imagine what he's trying topreach about and insults he's throwing around when we all dispute his opinions as facts... but a CoachHubie-JusticeGod-Splendidvisions-Johnson freeNiketalk....what a relief!

 

[tokes99]

I think the problem we (Niketalk and Nike themselves) are having is trying to bottle lightning again a la Air Jordan. that was a fluke, and will probably never see a repeat in our lifetimes. By giving three sigs to the best player since MJ, they tried to market Kobe to all branches of person and reach a level only attained by a once in a lifetime personality. MJ related greatness to all levels of society, mostly because we viewed him as infallible, and even though the gambling, adultery, and fights with teammates came out later, he is still viewed as almost perfect. With the level of scrutiny from the press like it is, with unlimited access to the players' lives and habits, no player now is viewed as being close to that level of perfection, the last probably being Grant Hill (who I still sya Fila screwed up injury and marketing).
word. mj himself couldn't be mj in the current climate of (sports) media...that being said, companies in this industry will always need apitchman (or woman) to sell their wares...i like the it takes 5 campaign but upon closer inspection its more of the same...

The ZKII failed, is that a problem for some to admit? From where I sit, it seems so!
here is my question to all:

what is the gauge of a successful shoe? if company A makes a great performing shoe that few people put their dollars on, is it a failure? some would sayyes...conversely, if company B makes a terrible performing shoe that er'body & their mom's buys (2 pairs!) does that make it a success? to mymind, you could argue either way and have a good point. i like that nike is going sort against the grain with the kobe line, the industry need more of thatimo; and if anyone is going to give one player 3 shoes (and it isn't even all that uncommon for that matter)...

i know this is a lil' off topic but i wanted to touch on this statement some:

The ZKII concept was flawed from the beginning, and this hi tech ZKIII look is flawed as well. Especially since the market is begging for a retro look and feel. Simply put, Nike is out of touch and then have been for quite a while.
here is the thing, bringing a product to market is tough. constantly trying to find the balance between giving the consumer what they want, whilealso bringing them something that they did not even know they wanted. simply put if you ask your girl what she wants to eat for dinner she might say somethingin the "ordinary", nothing wrong with that...but had you offered her a trip to the sizzler (or otherwise nicer alternative) the "ordinary"might not be the 1st choice. furthermore, the goal is to set the trends @ most places, not to just follow them; especially when talking about"performance product." besides wouldn't you say that nike pretty much has its bases covered on the retro look & feel market?

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by tokes99

word. mj himself couldn't be mj in the current climate of (sports) media...that being said, companies in this industry will always need a pitchman (or woman) to sell their wares...i like the it takes 5 campaign but upon closer inspection its more of the same...

The ZKII failed, is that a problem for some to admit? From where I sit, it seems so!
here is my question to all:

what is the gauge of a successful shoe? if company A makes a great performing shoe that few people put their dollars on, is it a failure? some would say yes...conversely, if company B makes a terrible performing shoe that er'body & their mom's buys (2 pairs!) does that make it a success? to my mind, you could argue either way and have a good point. i like that nike is going sort against the grain with the kobe line, the industry need more of that imo; and if anyone is going to give one player 3 shoes (and it isn't even all that uncommon for that matter)...

i know this is a lil' off topic but i wanted to touch on this statement some:

The ZKII concept was flawed from the beginning, and this hi tech ZKIII look is flawed as well. Especially since the market is begging for a retro look and feel. Simply put, Nike is out of touch and then have been for quite a while.
here is the thing, bringing a product to market is tough. constantly trying to find the balance between giving the consumer what they want, while also bringing them something that they did not even know they wanted. simply put if you ask your girl what she wants to eat for dinner she might say something in the "ordinary", nothing wrong with that...but had you offered her a trip to the sizzler (or otherwise nicer alternative) the "ordinary" might not be the 1st choice. furthermore, the goal is to set the trends @ most places, not to just follow them; especially when talking about "performance product." besides wouldn't you say that nike pretty much has its bases covered on the retro look & feel market?












The marketing of Jordan created this atmosphere, one where a jock has to be Vanilla in order to be marketable. It's gonna take a strong, well roundedpersonality to break this trend, and Kobe Bryant is NOT the player who is gonna do that. Not only is he flawed, but he has no backbone. What needs to happen isan Ali like spirit, one who'll throw caution to the wind and then be exactly who they want to be, public be damned.

A "successful shoe", is one that crosses all boundaries. When Nike has a player within it's ranks like Kobe, they make a big stink by signing himto a big deal. Cool, he is an investment, someone that you hope that'll help you move product. Nike didn't sign Kobe to have his kicks to beRTV'ed, and then NOT worn by people who are on the border about him.

It seems that Kobe overestimates himself, which is proven by his trade demands. He was instrumental in destroying the morale of TWO teams, namingly the Bullsand Lakers. Funny thing happened though, the Lakers got their act together, making Kobe look like an idiot for making such demands, with Nike looking like astooge as well, as this guy seems to not be able to sell cold water in hell, that hell being the United States.

So the question is, why did Nike think that they could move THREE shoes, when he had a hard time selling the first, while even being on the racks at MARSHALLS?

The Sheath or whatever the first one was called, was called the greatest thing ever by of all things, Nike fans.

Now, how objective can THEY be?

What about the people who complained about the shoe not fitting well? All of this is subjective, of course, but as was stated earlier in this thread, if someunknowing person came to NikeTalk looking for honest and objective opinions on shoes, they'd be mislead.

They'll wind up getting either the LBJ4, or the ZKII.

If the person HATES both of those shoes, these would be the responses,

"You gotta break'em in!" < This is when they fit improperly.
"Wear thicker socks!" < This is when the achilles on the ZKII digs in on you.
"Lose weight!" < This'll be said if the person doesn't like the feel of zoom air.
"Hit the stairs!" < This is what you'll get if the LBJ's are considered too heavy.
There are Nike employees and superfans here pushingproduct. Most of them don't even play ball.

So who is designing these shoes? Some fool who is good with a pen? It's no wonder that Nike Basketball is failing, never mind Kobe Bryant's line.

 

[kobehead]

Jack Johnson, stop wasting your time typing huge paragraphs about hate to Kobe. GET A LIFE already you 14 year old kid called Peter.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

welp it was nice reading this 'discussion'
then again its hard to discuss anything without an open and clear mind.