**LA LAKERS THREAD** Sitting on 17! 2023-2024 offseason begins

[CP1708]

Messed around and Bron taking the minimum with D'Lo/Reddish/Wood/Hayes opting-in, Christie making a modest $4M would give the Lakers a whopping ~$7M in cap space.

You are a gentleman and a scholar.

Now make the moves you expect please. (Mitchell, Trae, Murray, Paul George etc)

Which trades DLo, Rui, 17, whoever you believe.

What does that look like?

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I have no idea what I'm talking about. But no reason that should stop me from ranting and rambling all day

 

[atlsfinest]

You got any defensive numbers on both players? We should be interested in seeing those.

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Exactly correct.

Folks getting hung up on the wrong details.

"Check his stats!!!!!!"

I have, thoroughly.

Points, rebounds, assists, all great still. Kudos to him. Better shooting from 3. Bravo.

Now look at defense. Or on/off numbers.

Bron was +220 this year. Great job. Does anyone know that he had NINE STRAIGHT years at over +400 and since he's been a Laker he's hit that mark ONCE?

Dude had years at +800. +600. +500.

Correlation?
His defensive ratings have done nothing but get worse.
The first 13 years of his career his WORST defensive rating was 104. He had some 99's, 101's etc. 104 was his worst. For 13 years.

His last 3 years? 111, 113, 114.

I'm not saying he's not a good NBA player. He is. He 100% is. Top 10ish. But there IS falloff. And his salary is going UP.

His counting stats remain great, his impact stats are not. He doesn't close the gap like he did 10+ years ago. He played with garbage teammates in Cleveland and in Miami but he could overcome them in his youth, he can't anymore. And yet we give him even more money (which won't help improve his teammates) and he will still not be able to overcome the team's shortcomings.

I'm sorry. But building around Bron/AD isn't going to fix play-in team status and first rounder fodder. Giving away more future draft picks, hiring/firing another coach or two......

LeBron was literally top 10 in box plus minus this season, top 10 in VORP. It's not just his accountant stats, like I said earlier by most advanced matrix LeBron is still a top 10 player.

If you're rationale is that "LeBron isn't prime, GOAT level LeBron then he isn't worth the max" then only Luka, Giannis and Jokic deserve the max.

 

[grittyman]

His defensive ratings have done nothing but get worse.
The first 13 years of his career his WORST defensive rating was 104. He had some 99's, 101's etc. 104 was his worst. For 13 years.

Cool.

But give me DLo’s defensive rating I need a good laugh to lighten the mood in this thread

 

[CP1708]

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LeBron was literally top 10 in box plus minus this season, top 10 in VORP. It's not just his accountant stats, like I said earlier by most advanced matrix LeBron is still a top 10 player.

If you're rationale is that "LeBron isn't prime, GOAT level LeBron then he isn't worth the max" then only Luka, Giannis and Jokic deserve the max.

Those feature offense heavily. Top 10 no prob. No argument from me.

Now look at his defensive ranks as well.
There you will see he falls into Top 40ish range.

And I said earlier, he was +220 on the season. Which is good. He USED TO BE +400 every year, year after year. Even had a few +600's and a +800 on there. Shows how absurd he once was for sure. But that's not a level he can reach anymore.

 

[CP1708]

Cool.

But give me DLo’s defensive rating I need a good laugh to lighten the mood in this thread

We're not allowed to post po*n man.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Spoiler

If we paid Bron $50mm, and along with AD's $43mm, plus if we kept AR, Wood, Hayes, Christie, Vando, and the 17th pick, that would put LAL at $127.7 million.

With the luxury tax at $171.3 mil, the Lakers would have about $43.6 in poker chips.

Assuming everyone who has a player option opts in, how great of a poker player is Rob Pelinka to be able to shed $54.8mm in salary between DLo, Rui, Gabe, JHS, Cam, and Lewis while utilizing only $43.6 mm in available space to acquire 5 new and important pieces so he can build a roster that will actually compete for a title next season?

Scenario: Trade Rui, DLo, Gabe, JHS, Cam, Lewis

Available open roster spots: 5
Available funds: $43.6 million

Needs:
*Starting C
*2-way wings and guards who can shoot
*Floor General veteran PG off the bench,

Fire up that Trade Machine. Season starts Monday

 

[CP1708]

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LeBron was literally top 10 in box plus minus this season, top 10 in VORP. It's not just his accountant stats, like I said earlier by most advanced matrix LeBron is still a top 10 player.

If you're rationale is that "LeBron isn't prime, GOAT level LeBron then he isn't worth the max" then only Luka, Giannis and Jokic deserve the max.

And to go with what I've been pointing out......

The numbers you are pointing out are among career lows compared to a few years ago.

 

[darthska]

Magic were up 17 in the first half.
Currently down 12 with 1:42 left.
Is no first half lead safe anymore? Not even in the playoffs?

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Would Mitchell be an upgrade over D'lo?

 

[atlsfinest]

Those feature offense heavily. Top 10 no prob. No argument from me.

Now look at his defensive ranks as well.
There you will see he falls into Top 40ish range.

And I said earlier, he was +220 on the season. Which is good. He USED TO BE +400 every year, year after year. Even had a few +600's and a +800 on there. Shows how absurd he once was for sure. But that's not a level he can reach anymore.

And to go with what I've been pointing out......

The numbers you are pointing out are among career lows compared to a few years ago.

I'm confused on the point you are trying to make. Your original argument was "LeBron isn't worth a max contract" and now your argument is "LeBron isn't as good as he was in his prime". You seem to have pivoted from your "$15M/year, 4th option" talk.

LeBron is one of the top 2 greatest players who had one of the greatest peaks ever, of course he isn't at that level at 39. That being said he's still a top 10 player in the league and top 10 players deserve max money. End of story. There's nothing else to debate.

 

[CP1708]

I'm confused on the point you are trying to make. Your original argument was "LeBron isn't worth a max contract" and now your argument is "LeBron isn't as good as he was in his prime". You seem to have pivoted from your "$15M/year, 4th option" talk.

LeBron is one of the top 2 greatest players who had one of the greatest peaks ever, of course he isn't at that level at 39. That being said he's still a top 10 player in the league and top 10 players deserve max money. End of story. There's nothing else to debate.

I've been involved in quite a few discussions based on all this for over a year and a half.

It all originally stemmed from.......we should trade AD. (No more building around AD/Bron)

 

[moonman818]

Would Mitchell be an upgrade over D'lo?

He wouldn’t **** himself in the playoffs year after year

 

[CP1708]

LeBron is one of the top 2 greatest players who had one of the greatest peaks ever, of course he isn't at that level at 39

Thank you sir.

 

[darthska]

Would Mitchell be an upgrade over D'lo?

This last season:

These playoffs:

 

[darthska]

Thank you sir.

You're conflating 'See? 39 sucks' and '39 is less capable than 32.'
Everyone agrees with the latter; you're flat-out wrong about the former. Just incorrect.
(My bad, BIG LEEMELONE . Cotdammit. I'm out... again. Gonna make this pasta.)

 

[CP1708]

You're conflating 'See? 39 sucks' and '39 is less capable than 32.'
Everyone agrees with the latter; you're flat-out wrong about the former. Just incorrect.
(My bad, BIG LEEMELONE . Cotdammit. I'm out... again. Gonna make this pasta.)

I am not saying 39 sucks.

I'm saying 39 isn't as good as 32 was.

 

[tupac003]

Of course 39 isn't as great as 32.

But his 39 has been better than 75% of the 32 and under in the NBA.

 

[moonman818]

This is such a stupid convo cuz we’re not trading an all time legend to blow it up and possibly be ****ty for another seven years

 

[moonman818]

Just to end up trading all our assets for 30+ year old Tatum

 

[tupac003]

And the notion of we aren't trying to compete for a title because we are building around 2 top 10 to 15 players in the NBA is a bit crazy.

I get his ideas, but the reality of what he wants isn't pretty and may not work out.

Trade AD for picks or players that are no where near as good...

Yeah nah.

 

[moonman818]

this offseason we just need to worry about our defensive rebounding and upgrading our bench/backcourt.

Love D ‘Lo but we’re not winning with him as our 3rd guy.

Castleton better be on the bench and the squat rack all summer.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

This is such a stupid convo cuz we’re not trading an all time legend to blow it up and possibly be ****ty for another seven years

He wanted to trade Bron right before he broke the scoring record in a Laker jersey. In a year where he wasn't eligible to be traded. And the Lakers didn't control their pick. Should tell you everything you need to know

 

[CP1708]

This is such a stupid convo cuz we’re not trading an all time legend to blow it up and possibly be ****ty for another seven years

It's possible we're about to trade our 2030 and 2032 first round picks to build around LeBron now.......

Literal years from now we're going to be limited STILL because we pushed all in to build around a guy 40 years old that won't be able to close the gap(s) in our roster.

But ok. I'll sit back and watch the Trae Young trade and JJ Reddick hire and pretend I believe we're trying to win titles still.

 

[tupac003]

CP...

We haven't hired JJ or traded for Trea....

Yes it could happen...but it hasn't...

Just leave it alone.