[:: LAKERS 2014 THREAD | POLL: Who Should Coach Next Year? ::]

[noblekane]

In the end it is a business and no player hates truly hates a teamor money for that matter.

With that said we have nothing to offer the celtics so...

 

[mjsaver]

Lottery seems like quicksand , easy to get in but hard to get out......SEEMS the same teams been trading the top ten picks forever

 

[CP1708]

Lottery seems like quicksand , easy to get in but hard to get out......SEEMS the same teams been trading the top ten picks forever

Very true. The same crappy Minnesota's, Sacramento's, Milwaukee, Charlotte's. Very true.

Thing is, we are LA. Dip in once, get a piece, and then back that up with free agent cap space x infinity, you tend to get out pretty quick, if smart moves are made.


Those crappy small market teams shoot themselves in the foot so often, they can't get out. See New Orleans land one incredible #1 pick, and follow that up the very next year with trading away the #6 pick in the draft and signing two mid level nothings in Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holliday, as well as trading their first round pick this year.

Bout the dumbest ******* thing they could ever do, but they got in some hurry to win right away, and instead they are going to waste years off Anthony Davis's career, but know what's funny? His 4 year rookie deal will keep them viable for a while, and then likely the 3 year extension (because the NBA stepped in to help these idiots franchises keep their franchise players) so Davis will likely spend a full 7-8 years in that wasteland before he truly enters free agency and can go to a team of his choosing.

Sound familiar?

Cuz LeBron did that very same thing in Cleveland. 4 year rookie deal, 3 year extension, bounce.



In a perfect world, LA pulls this Top 5 pick. Lands Kevin Love in 2015. Kobe retires. Kevin Durant comes in 2016. And in about 2019-2020, the Lakers make a major push for Anthony Davis as he turns 27-28 and LA can offer him everything he'll have wasted in New Orleans.

Long time from now, I know. But right now, currently, in the NBA, franchise altering players, there are 3. Bron, Durant, Davis. (4 if you want to count CP3, but his body is starting to break down already, his time is short compared to the other 3) Dwight would be #5, another guy nearing 30, with a back surgery already on him, as well as his shoulder.



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[MVP]

So if it's not Wiggins, Exum, Embiid, or Exum; you guys still want to hold on to the pick, even if it means we get Kevin Love and not let him get traded to the Celtics or Bulls?Those are the only 4 guys I want, Randle...no, Smart...no. If we fall out of the top 4 I have no problem with trading the pick, locking up one of the assets we need. Either way in 2015 we could still go after Rondo or LMA/Marc all while theoretically having Love in tow.

The situation we're in differs from the Knicks in so many ways, I will say that.

 

[sea manup]

if we dont get a big name pick the wolves wont want it for love, so it would be pointless to trade it

cant just hope for a top 3 pick and be able to trade a non top 3 pick for a franchise player, it doesnt work like that

 

[frink85]

So if it's not Wiggins, Exum, Embiid, or Exum; you guys still want to hold on to the pick, even if it means we get Kevin Love and not let him get traded to the Celtics or Bulls?Those are the only 4 guys I want, Randle...no, Smart...no. If we fall out of the top 4 I have no problem with trading the pick, locking up one of the assets we need. Either way in 2015 we could still go after Rondo or LMA/Marc all while theoretically having Love in tow.

The situation we're in differs from the Knicks in so many ways, I will say that.

I was thinking about the exact same situation earlier. Like say draft day rolls around and were stuck at #5+, the top guys are off the board, trade the pick for Love rather than settle for a lesser star.

BUT, only if we were able to get a lower pick back. We would still need to fill the cupboards with cheap talent rather than minimum crap. So if Minny or whoever else was willing to give up Love + a first rounder for our lottery pick, then I'd consider it. Big time IF on getting a pick back though.

edit: exactly what p said, except now my situation sounds even less feasible

 

[MVP]

Who knows maybe they'll be high on Julius Randle or someone else and think he can replace Love if they already know he's gone. We've seen dumber stuff happened, yall act like most of these FO actually know what they're doing and can evaluate talent...ahem Cavs, Minny, Charlotte, numerous others. It's not out of the realm of possibility, I'm just expressing my opinion would that scenario come up.

How many pegged Anthony Bennett as the top pick last year? Maybe UK and Randle have a monster run and ppl have him shoot up their draft boards, making him much more attractive. Which would be good two fold...have him shoot past one of the other fantastic 4 in case we fall out of the top 4 picks; and entice other teams (maybe Minny) to want him.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I think all of us can see it would be ideal to have a top 3 pick and then wait around to pair him with Love and another big free agent. That's pretty obvious. The issue is it is possible and even very likely that love never reaches free agency and is traded before we get the chance to sign him. It's not exactly like melo's trade and that's why any of us are even entertaining the idea of trading the pick

And to mamba mvp's point we have seen teams make desperate moves trying to build a playoff team or a tank team as recently as last season. What the pelicans, pistons, Sixers have done will be done again this offseason. I really don't think the pick will be traded if it's top 5 but If it can be argued that we are the lakers and we won't draft a bust why can't it be argued that we won't make a bad trade/signing? If we're better than Cleveland at drafting why aren't we better than NO/Detroit upstairs?

 

[MVP]

We have no other young (multiple) assets to get 'fleeced' like the Knicks did.

We basically have injured Amare in Kobe right now, Get Money Nash, and Scare for next year. Kendell, Bazemore, and either Farmar or X will probably return for next season. We're not financially strapped like the Knicks are and would have been even if Melo waited until FA. Getting Love now rather than later wouldn't cripple us. And as high as I am on all the top 4 guys coming out, there's no guarantee that they will be stars, superstars, or even serviceable because they haven't proven it. Love is a proven commodity in this league and is probably just entering the prime of his career.

 

[CP1708]

Think we all agree to an extent, Sacre, Kelly, Farmar, Henry, Wes, Marshall, and maybe Bazemore could all come back cheap, players 5-12. Give or take a Nick Young, or maybe a Jodie Meeks as extra depth or if one of them decides to leave, or a small trade is made.

So in terms of key pieces to try and rebuild.

Old man Kobe (2 yrs) + Old man Nash (1 yr) + Old man Pau (1 yr) + draft pick, + Melo. 2015 you dump Nash/Pau, bring in Kevin Love.

Kobe, Nash, Pau, trade draft pick for Love, sign amnestied Boozer, lose in the second round for the next 2 years. (Pincus idea)

Kobe, Nash, draft pick, Lowry, Deng, Monroe, lose Nash in 2015, try to bring in a Mark Gasol (cheaper than Love since we spent on Lowry-Deng-Monroe)

Kobe, Nash, Pau, trade draft pick for Dirk Nowitski and Vince Carter and be the 2014 Brooklyn Nets going all in for 1 year. (There would be murders that take place, I would go to jail for a long time)

Kobe, Nash, Pau, draft pick, Lance Stephenson, 2015 drop Nash/Pau, bring in Love, 2016 try to land Durant.

Kobe, Nash, Pau, draft pick, tank one more year, land in the lottery again, top 5 protected pick, keep it from Phoenix, go into 2015 with TWO top 5 lottery picks+Kobe, sign Love 2015/Durant in 2016

Kobe, Nash, Pau, draft pick, tank for 2015 top 5 pick, sign Love + Rondo/Marc Gasol (forget about Durant)

Kobe, Melo, (stretch Nash) Lowry, draft pick, maybe Pau for 1 year. (horrible case scenario)

Kobe, Nash, Pau, trade draft pick for Kevin Love. (worst case scenario, set franchise back several years, tie up cap space (already), limit moves going forward, lack of Bird rights, ability to go past cap to sign pieces after Kobe retires, would be hard cap)

Kobe, Nash, draft pick, complete tear down of roster/contracts for 2014-15, likely end up in top 5 of the draft, let Nash fall off the books, go into 2015 Free Agency with draft pick and Kobe’s final season as the ONLY contracts on the books. If land a top 5 pick, you would have 2 top 5 picks + Kobe expiring, can sign 1-2 of Love/LMA/Marc Gasol/Rondo and then swing for Durant in 2016 after Kobe’s contract drops off.

2016 could look like draft pick 2014, draft pick 2015, Love, Rondo. Make 2014 and 2015 a C-SG combo, say Embiid for example, Embiid, Love, Durant, SG 2015, Rondo. (possibly the best scenario, also the least likely of course, as that is a lot of moving parts, luck, and Kobe might murder people tanking for 2015 all over again)

All the above options, + the idea of bringing in cast off vets like Boozer, or Jason Terry, Vince Carter type Antwan Jamison lookin vets on their final paychecks for a year. 1-2 of them to fill holes.

But those are actual options. Not let’s trade the pick and we have more than one way to skin a cat type replies without any actual ideas on how to rebuild the core, but actual, with names, options on how the Lakers can rebuild. As you can see, some of them feature a win now mentality for Kobe, some feature a build now, for Durant all in full court press in 2016. Some feature a mix of both, attempting to win now, while also building a core behind the old folks like Kobe and Nash.

You have everything right here. You can try to win a chip. You can try to just make the playoffs the next couple years. You have another tanking team to try and keep your 2015 pick and develop a young core as well as have cap space the next 2 offseasons.

These are the options we are looking at. Certainly there can be a variation or two mixed in, but nothing earth shattering unless Bron or Bosh decide they need to come here.

So yes, there are other ways to build a team. All the bad ones include trading the pick away for older, more expensive vets, that limit our cap space. But hey, why worry about those things right? We’re the Lakers, the CBA means nothing to us. Even tho it was designed exactly for us, to prevent us from outspending everyone and simply buying Love, Durant, Davis, our top draft pick, someone else’s top draft pick AND paying Kobe his ridiculous contract.

 

[CP1708]

We have no other young (multiple) assets to get 'fleeced' like the Knicks did.

We basically have injured Amare in Kobe right now, Get Money Nash, and Scare for next year. Kendell, Bazemore, and either Farmar or X will probably return for next season. We're not financially strapped like the Knicks are and would have been even if Melo waited until FA. Getting Love now rather than later wouldn't cripple us. .

Yes, it would.

You trade the pick, you trade the ability to go over the salary cap. You have no player of our own, that you can sign and extend past the cap. Getting Love, at the expense of our own draft pick, means the cap becomes a real, true, cap. No going past it.

Signing Love AND having the pick gives you best of both worlds. If Love goes somewhere else, then you sign LMA, or Marc Gasol, etc. Other options. But you don't give the lone asset you have. Love alone is not worth it.


Think about it, we all want to combine Love and the pick. Getting Love alone, JUST Love, a guy that has never even been to the postseason, does what for us?

Love, old man Kobe, and Nash gonna start winning titles alone or something? Signing Love, and just Love for the 2016 free agent period ensures, what, exactly?


You have to COMBINE Love with someone, and that pick is our best chance.


I cannot believe people actually entertaining the idea of trading this pick. My God. First we had to deal with people thinking we were a Homecourt advantage Western Conference playoff team, now when they see the tank in all their mirrors, they want to trade the damn thing away.


I don't drink, but you guys are pushing me that direction.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

No guarantee of signing Love, LMA, Rondo, Marc etc. no matter how good/bad the pick ends up being. Great idea, sure, obviously. Still no guarantee

 

[pmatic]

Kobe, Nash, Pau, draft pick, tank one more year, land in the lottery again, top 5 protected pick, keep it from Phoenix, go into 2015 with TWO top 5 lottery picks+Kobe, sign Love 2015/Durant in 2016

 

[grandtheftbike]

between staying put in okc or leaving to washington dc or brooklyn, how probable is it for kd to come to the lakers?

obviously this depends on the situations in okc/wash/brooklyn but i really don't see this happening

hope i'm wrong

 

[freeze]

page 666

 

[kingjaffejo]

Hmmm hehe

 

[CP1708]

Kobe, Nash, Pau, draft pick, tank one more year, land in the lottery again, top 5 protected pick, keep it from Phoenix, go into 2015 with TWO top 5 lottery picks+Kobe, sign Love 2015/Durant in 2016

 

[CP1708]

Course, this thread would implode like a supernova falling into a black hole combined with the Sun turning cold if that was the plan, P.

 

[kingjaffejo]

Got a question for you all, does anybody know about Early from Wichita St.???

Don't know much about the kid but when I was watching him yesterday I was amazed. He has a good feel to his game. Can hit the 3, can hit the midrange J, great athletic ability, not afraid of the big moments down the stretch, has the length to be a good defender.

What's his draft stock like?? He looks like a player that could turn into something good later down the line

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

between staying put in okc or leaving to washington dc or brooklyn, how probable is it for kd to come to the lakers?

obviously this depends on the situations in okc/wash/brooklyn but i really don't see this happening

hope i'm wrong

I can see all the upcoming big name free agents staying put. Even Melo looks less likely to leave now and he was all but guaranteed to leave a few weeks ago.

Out of Love/Durant/Rondo/Gasol/LMA, love is both the most likely to walk or get traded elsewhere. Maybe he gets traded and ends up like Dwight except in reverse, eventually finding his home in LA. The two worst case scenarios as far as keeping the pick is that he lives up to the hype but we whiff on all the marquee free agents and end up in purgatory anyway. Or the pick ends up being a bust/role player.

Edit - wait now we all want Pau back (for the right price...)? What a revival...

 

[senorroboto2k5]

The Lakers' trade offer would probably be beat anyway like others have brought up. Unless they wind up with #1 and the Wolves get caught in the moment on draft day.

If you want Love, you should hope that the Wolves hold on to him or they trade him to some other ****** situation.

 

[MVP]

Yes, it would.

You trade the pick, you trade the ability to go over the salary cap. You have no player of our own, that you can sign and extend past the cap. Getting Love, at the expense of our own draft pick, means the cap becomes a real, true, cap. No going past it.

Signing Love AND having the pick gives you best of both worlds. If Love goes somewhere else, then you sign LMA, or Marc Gasol, etc. Other options. But you don't give the lone asset you have. Love alone is not worth it.


Think about it, we all want to combine Love and the pick. Getting Love alone, JUST Love, a guy that has never even been to the postseason, does what for us?

Love, old man Kobe, and Nash gonna start winning titles alone or something? Signing Love, and just Love for the 2016 free agent period ensures, what, exactly?


You have to COMBINE Love with someone, and that pick is our best chance.


I cannot believe people actually entertaining the idea of trading this pick. My God. First we had to deal with people thinking we were a Homecourt advantage Western Conference playoff team, now when they see the tank in all their mirrors, they want to trade the damn thing away.


I don't drink, but you guys are pushing me that direction.

That's the ideal situation. Of course I'd want that, but if these last couple seasons are any indication... lately for the Lakers, things have been far from ideal. I don't know if there's a black cat running around Staples, but our luck has been horrible. I fully expect us to miss out on a top 4 pick, draft Marcus Smart and sign Melo. That's just as likely a scenario as the top pick + Love scenario.

Bottom line is we're not in the front office and after what Kobe said in that interview, seems they still are willing or a last going to try to accelerate the process for selfish reasons, aka do things like they've always done. So no matter what we think, ***** and moan about being the right, smart, or only way to get back to contention, it's going to be hard to convince an organization that had done it the same way for 30 years to all of a sudden turn to something completely different even though circumstances have changed around them. They have more money than ever to play with, and I'm sure shortcuts will be made to at least get the majority of the fanbase from killing them.

Who knows it could work, and it may not, just as Embiid could become Oden instead of AD or Wiggins into poor man's Harrison Barnes instead of Kobe lite; and Exum could be a complete bust...we just don't know. It's just pointless to beat your chest as having the only our right way to win or contend because we've seen it happen in a myriad of ways.

Heat have done it with FA, Dallas did it with an aging star + supplementary pieces, Spurs did it through the draft. There more than one way to skin a cat, even with the new CBA.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I agree with that senorroboto2k5 and it's part of the reason I don't think the pick will be traded. But it's interesting to entertain scenarios instead if constantly talking about MDA or going menstrual after every win.

Also the only way we end up with a top 5 pick next year is if the 14 pick is a complete bust or we have the same issues with health. If healthy and if the pick is worth diddly there's no way we suck enough to be in the top 5. Hell we wouldn't be top 5 this year if healthy so I can't see how adding a supreme earth shattering air bending rookie is supposed to help our draft odds.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

but our luck has been horrible. I fully expect us to miss out on a top 4 pick, draft Marcus Smart and sign Melo. That's just as likely a scenario as the top pick + Love scenario.

:x :x

The darkest timeline

 

[CP1708]

The new CBA is 2 years old Mamba.

I forgot a scenario......Kobe, Nash, Pau, trade pick for Love, and try to squeeze Melo in. (Stretch Nash perhaps) (maybe not keep Pau)

Either way, Kobe, Love, Melo wouldn't win **** and we'd just be burning money til Kobe retires.

This scenario sucks royally and yet I can picture Laker fans dancing in the streets with glee.