Lockerbie Terrorist bomber kills 270+ people, freed, receives Hero's welcome - reps Nike cap

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by theprocessofbelief

Although I disagree with your point of view, I agree the case doesn't seem as cut and dried as alot of media outlets are making it seem.

Libyan government, IMO, was heavily involved.

You mean you disagree with my opinion? But, at least you are not just basing it off just hearsay, you did your research and came to your soundjudgment.

From what I have read, that the parts used to make the bombs and the trigger mechanisms were made in the Soviet Union. In my opinion,it seems that theevidence the US and the UK withheld is that it was pointed to the USSR. However, due to the dynamics and change of atmosphere and the softening under thedetente and Gorbachev's reforms, they pointed the finger to Libya. If the Libyan government was heavily involved or mainly responsible, it was probably anoperation from their intelligence agencies and the higher ups, and this man was just used as a scapegoat.

The trial was completely unfair, the intelligence agencies withheld so much evidence. No public inquiry into the case either. There was no hard-proof andcompelling evidence, all circumstantial. No proof he did it, at all.

 

[lazy b]

Listening to a UN report. This is the same UN that denied raping women and children in Africa. This is the same UN that was exposed with Guns for Gold andFood for Oil scandals. Keep believing the most corrupt organization on the face of this planet if you want.

 

[blahzee]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU@@E@# UN

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Lazy B

Its a well deserved comment seeing your bias towards your Middle Eastern brethren. In your eyes they can do no wrong. They are always the victim. He is a murderer. I hope the last 3 months of his life are the most painful 90 days ever.

Are you kidding me???? Please, just stop it right there.

So are the human rights groups, the U.N. trial observers, as well as academics and Scottish professors from Lockerbie who are NON Middle Eastern who hold thesame opinion as me also biased?

Infact, I hold great distaste towards the Libyan government and Ghadafi, as well for all the dictatorship Middle Eastern regimes. I can guarantee you in no wayI am biased.

 

[ninjallamafromhell]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by Lazy B

Its a well deserved comment seeing your bias towards your Middle Eastern brethren. In your eyes they can do no wrong. They are always the victim. He is a murderer. I hope the last 3 months of his life are the most painful 90 days ever.

Are you kidding me???? Please, just stop it right there.

So are the human rights groups, the U.N. trial observers, as well as academics and Scottish professors from Lockerbie who are NON Middle Eastern who hold the same opinion as me also biased?

Infact, I hold great distaste towards the Libyan government and Ghadafi, as well for all the dictatorship Middle Eastern regimes. I can guarantee you in no way I am biased.

Everyone is biased. Everyone has an agenda.

 

[j burner]

How come none of ya'll get this upset when Obama releases terrorists?

 

[proshares]

Originally Posted by Lazy B

Listening to a UN report. This is the same UN that denied raping women and children in Africa. This is the same UN that was exposed with Guns for Gold and Food for Oil scandals. Keep believing the most corrupt organization on the face of this planet if you want.

Was listening to it at work. And just like the NTer on the previous page, the first thought that crossed my mind when I initially heard the news was"what if he does something else upon his release." Time will only tell.

Hazeleyed,

I personally haven't read every case file on this situation but I did read most of it for a project in a class a few years ago. I never fully understoodwhy Scotland held him when mostly Americans were killed including intelligence officials. And while some things were sketchy I still think he was guilty. TheLibyan government though...

 

[sundoobie]

From what I have read, that the parts used to make the bombs and the trigger mechanisms were made in the Soviet Union. In my opinion,it seems that the evidence the US and the UK withheld is that it was pointed to the USSR.

And what does this prove? So because they were made by Russia, they are responsible? Give me a break.

Iraq terrorists uses AK-47s made in Russia. Taliban uses Russian madeRPGs. Are we to blame Russia for that too?

If the Libyan government was heavily involved or mainly responsible, it was probably an operation from their intelligence agencies and the higher ups, and this man was just used as a scapegoat.
What do you mean "IF"? Your research didn't tell you that the Libyan govt admitted they were involved and are paying the victims a$2.7 Billion settlement? Like someone said... you're beyond BIAS

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by theprocessofbelief

Although I disagree with your point of view, I agree the case doesn't seem as cut and dried as alot of media outlets are making it seem.

Libyan government, IMO, was heavily involved.

You mean you disagree with my opinion? But, at least you are not just basing it off just hearsay, you did your research and came to your sound judgment.

From what I have read, that the parts used to make the bombs and the trigger mechanisms were made in the Soviet Union. In my opinion,it seems that the evidence the US and the UK withheld is that it was pointed to the USSR. However, due to the dynamics and change of atmosphere and the softening under the detente and Gorbachev's reforms, they pointed the finger to Libya. If the Libyan government was heavily involved or mainly responsible, it was probably an operation from their intelligence agencies and the higher ups, and this man was just used as a scapegoat.

The trial was completely unfair, the intelligence agencies withheld so much evidence. No public inquiry into the case either. There was no hard-proof and compelling evidence, all circumstantial. No proof he did it, at all.

The USSR would not be blowing up US passenger airliners. Not because of any moral objection but because the US and the USSR didn't operatelike that against each other. Doing that would bring the Cold War directly to each nation's mainland and spark major domestic problems.
Both the US and USSR provided weapons to satellite countries and in this case Libya pulled some dumb *!#$ and blew an entire civilian airliner out of the sky.So in a sense, the USSR was responsible as well.
.

Most likely this guy wasn't the brains behind the operation but being a foot solider doesn't absolve him either.
They couldn't lock up the entire Libyan intelligence hierarchy (although some select few were assassinated) so yes, the 2 guys became the public face of"the enemy". Doesn't make him innocent though.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Lazy B

Listening to a UN report. This is the same UN that denied raping women and children in Africa. This is the same UN that was exposed with Guns for Gold and Food for Oil scandals. Keep believing the most corrupt organization on the face of this planet if you want.

Hollllddddd up.....

The U.N. can of course be corrupt such as any other organization...

Then again, you did not state to me what you base your opinion on. Did you research into the case?

You say I am based and that my opinion is invalid...Aren't you a close-minded Republican who supported one of the most vile and corrupt U.S. governmentadministrations to ever exist? And you are trying to say my opinion is invalid? You stand and support filthy scumbag politicians who rule the world and havelied and deceived the world and a nation of people. Plundering money from its people, and sending off its troops to fight a war based on lies and to go andkill hundreds and thousands of civilians on a mission all for greed and power and for domination and conquest.

You are the one that supports the worst violators of nature and human rights that never go to jail, but hold the keys to it.

You say I am biased? So what does that make you?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

And what does this prove? So because they were made by Russia, they are responsible? Give me a break.

Iraq terrorists uses AK-47s made in Russia. Taliban uses Russian made RPGs. Are we to blame Russia for that too?

I was going to mention what you said right there too, which it does not mean that makes it the USSR that did it due to that certain fact. Ofcourse, due to worlwide illegal arms trade, arms are bound to go everywhere. But there was other specific evidence that led to that conclusion from somereports I have read. Again, it does not mean it was the USSR.

What do you mean "IF"? Your research didn't tell you that the Libyan govt admitted they were involved and are paying the victims a $2.7 Billion settlement? Like someone said... you're beyond BIAS

It could be anyone as far as I am concerned. I did not say I did not believe the Libyan government was not involved. They certainly could havebeen.

As for the Libyan government admitting to it...They never did. Not from what I know. Offering a settlement does not mean they admitted to it.

Libya's Prime Minister, Shukri Ghanem, has claimed that his country played no part in either the Lockerbie bombing or the shooting of WPC Yvonne Fletcher in London in 1984.

Mr Ghanem insisted that there's no real evidence to prove that Libya was behind either act and his government's offer to pay compensation was made merely to "buy peace" with the west.
...
Pressed on why his government has offered to pay $10 million dollars compensation to each of the victim's families he insisted that this was merely an effort to "buy peace" following years of crippling economic sanctions and was no admission of guilt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/misc/libya_20040224.shtml


So, I am biased because I am Middle Eastern?

Ok, in some ways everyone has bias. But, in this case, trust me...It is in no way because I support the Libyan government. In fact, Ghadafi and the Libyangovernment are one of the most corrupted Middle Eastern regimes. But yeah, oh wait....For some reason now, the Western leaders in fact support Ghadafi and dorelations with him. Your own government supports and backs this insane psychotic dictator.

 

[Bonafide]

This is just horrible.

 

[m16]

 

[docwatson]

info on the hat?

I have it in white, but lost my blue one, and i'd like the black one too, but can't find them anywhere!

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

The USSR would not be blowing up US passenger airliners. Not because of any moral objection but because the US and the USSR didn't operate like that against each other. Doing that would bring the Cold War directly to each nation's mainland and spark major domestic problems.

Both the US and USSR provided weapons to satellite countries and in this case Libya pulled some dumb *!#$ and blew an entire civilian airliner out of the sky. So in a sense, the USSR was responsible as well.
.

Most likely this guy wasn't the brains behind the operation but being a foot solider doesn't absolve him either.
They couldn't lock up the entire Libyan intelligence hierarchy (although some select few were assassinated) so yes, the 2 guys became the public face of "the enemy". Doesn't make him innocent though.

The U.S. and the U.S.S.R used proxies in order to maintain their goals with getting at each other. It does not mean that neither of them wereinvolved when it came to these kinds of operations.

But who knows who it was, it could have very much been the Libyan government. Megrahi was also a former intelligence officer.

But then again, when it came to this particular case, there was no hard proof evidence he did it, and it a cicumstantial case. So, that is why I choose tostand by his innocence. To me, the evidence points more to his innocence rather his guilt. Like I said, there are even relatives of the victims who died, aswell as Scottish professors and academia who believe in his innocence. It does not make their opinion valid, but you can say it does not make them as biasedeither.

In the end, we will never truly know. I can hold this opinion, but in fact I could be very wrong.

I just think it is ridiculous someone in here pointed straight to me to tell me that my opinion is invalid just because I am Middle Eastern. That is basicallywhat Lazy B said.

 

[lazyj10]

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited


His true punishment has yet to begin. Give it about 3 months.

This might be the truest thing I've ever seen you post.

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

Originally Posted by wawaweewa

The USSR would not be blowing up US passenger airliners. Not because of any moral objection but because the US and the USSR didn't operate like that against each other. Doing that would bring the Cold War directly to each nation's mainland and spark major domestic problems.

Both the US and USSR provided weapons to satellite countries and in this case Libya pulled some dumb *!#$ and blew an entire civilian airliner out of the sky. So in a sense, the USSR was responsible as well.
.

Most likely this guy wasn't the brains behind the operation but being a foot solider doesn't absolve him either.
They couldn't lock up the entire Libyan intelligence hierarchy (although some select few were assassinated) so yes, the 2 guys became the public face of "the enemy". Doesn't make him innocent though.

The U.S. and the U.S.S.R used proxies in order to maintain their goals with getting at each other. It does not mean that neither of them were involved when it came to these kinds of operations.

But who knows who it was, it could have very much been the Libyan government. Megrahi was also a former intelligence officer.

But then again, when it came to this particular case, there was no hard proof evidence he did it, and it a cicumstantial case. So, that is why I choose to stand by his innocence. To me, the evidence points more to his innocence rather his guilt. Like I said, there are even relatives of the victims who died, as well as Scottish professors and academia who believe in his innocence. It does not make their opinion valid, but you can say it does not make them as biased either.

In the end, we will never truly know. I can hold this opinion, but in fact I could be very wrong.

I just think it is ridiculous someone in here pointed straight to me to tell me that my opinion is invalid just because I am Middle Eastern. That is basically what Lazy B said.

What proof do you want?
This isn't a domestic a homicide where it's easy to collect evidence and interview witnesses.

There most likely was some type of physical evidence ( communications intercepts/ double agents debriefings/ specific documents) but that couldn't be madepublic because it would expose the means through which the information was gathered.

He very well may be a scapegoat but I highly doubt he's entirely innocent.

 

[carlos tevez]

Why hasn't anyone here mentioned the hypocrisy of the U.S. government?

Always talking about spreading democracy and fighting terrorism yet they now have an open relationship with a known terrorist and tyrant in Libyan leaderal-Qaddhafi.

al-Qaddhafi has been responsible for the killing of Americans and yet members of the U.S. government have recently visited Libya and exchanged pleasantrieswith this man.

Now all of a sudden he shifts his stance after seeing the U.S. military reaction after 9/11 and the U.S. government views him as an anti-terror ally? Give me a%@##$% break.

I'm not that familiar with this case but it appears that Abdelbasat may have been a scapegoat...just someone to blame and punish since they could not findthe people at the heart of this crime. As already mentioned here, the people are cheering for a man they think is innocent, not because of the perceived crimethat he committed.

Also, please remember that there is no freedom of expression in Libya. All public protests, celebrations, etc. are organized by the state and thepolice...those people outside the airport were probably told to go out there and cheer for this man and to give him a hero's welcome.

 

[c hanna]

shouldve left him locked up

 

[dynamic x]

Originally Posted by J Burner

How come none of ya'll get this upset when Obama releases terrorists?

When did Obama EVER free prisoners this year? There's a difference between releasing to other countries and freeing them.

Under the Bush administration, a few terrorists were released by posing as "harmless villagers" and returned to the battlefield. One of those led asuicide attack. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/14/MNGELD85VP1.DTLBush !+%%$! up, right?

John McCain also wanted to close Guantanamo Bay too, except he wanted a plan. According to what you're thinking, McCain would have been releasing prisonerstoo. By the way, very few of the Gitmo prisoners have killed 270+ people in a terrorist attack except for the 9/11 conspirators, so the difference is quiteBIG, if you will.

So please shut up and let this discussion continue. All your posts are always about "Obama this, Obama healthcare kills people, Obama is !$$%%+$ ourcountry", seriously, shut up.

And I agree that this dude's real life sentence will come when he dies in those three months. Satan is going to have a hell of a time with him.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by Carlos Tevez

Why hasn't anyone here mentioned the hypocrisy of the U.S. government?

Always talking about spreading democracy and fighting terrorism yet they now have an open relationship with a known terrorist and tyrant in Libyan leader al-Qaddhafi.

al-Qaddhafi has been responsible for the killing of Americans and yet members of the U.S. government have recently visited Libya and exchanged pleasantries with this man.

Now all of a sudden he shifts his stance after seeing the U.S. military reaction after 9/11 and the U.S. government views him as an anti-terror ally? Give me a $$*#@$ break.

Not only that, they infact support him by financial means and provide tons of assistance to Libya now.

In fact, if the Libyan people now were to rise up against Ghadafi, the Western governments with their intelligence agencies would be right there helpingGhadafi put down the rebellion and killing people along the way.

Disgusting. But then again, they support and finance terrorists and dictators that suit their needs and interests (ie. Saudi Arabia, Libya, Egypt,etc.). Thenthey wonder why the hell the Middle East is messed up and are very much against Western governments and reject their foreign invasions.

Ghadafi is absolutely a raging psychotic lunatic. He also has the worst fashion sense ever. I despise him.

wawaweewa, they need to release proof in order to carry out a fair trial. Instead, it was corrupted and unfair. For example, they need torelease evidence such as vital documents possessed by the CIA and relate to the Mebo timer that supposedly detonated the bomb which were witheld from thedefence team. They need to explain by the hell there were witnesses which were paid millions to testify against Megrahi. They need to explain why there wasevidence planted, such as that Mebo's owner who claimed that the FBI offered him $4 million to testify that the timer piece of device which was found closeto the scene of the crash was part of a Mebo timer item given to Libya. There were also employees who stole prototypes and all that kind of stuff which werehanded over to people involved in the case. There needs to be a new public inquiry into the case, because the way it was carried was not justice and so that itcould be fair.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by J Burner

How come none of ya'll get this upset when Obama releases terrorists?

By the way, do you have ANY proof that they are? These men were illegally held, as well as abused and tortured, which is against internationalhuman rights law. Guantanamo Bay is an atrocity and withstands against everything that is against human rights. Many detainees locked up in Guantanamo Bay wereinnocent men swept up by U.S. forces unable to distinguish enemies from noncombatants. This even coming from ex-Bush officials who also support this claim. Itis because the forces jsut used the tactic of capturing whomever and interrogating and questionning everyone. Most of the tortured were innocent. Do youremember the atrocity that is Abu Ghraib and the torture that was widespread throughout other detention centres in Iraq and Afghanistan? Infact, there are evenofficials who served under secretary of state Colin Powell who claim that out of the 700 people who had been detained at Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba onlyabout two dozen or so of the detainees who might well be hardcore terrorists.

How can you claim that Obama released terrorists from Guantanamo when the majority are claimed to be innocent and were never even tried????

 

[what are you gonna do]

i hope the scots get it again, just to show em whatsup

dumbest idea ever.

 

[ninjallamafromhell]

Originally Posted by ninjallamafromhell

Everyone is biased. Everyone has an agenda.

 

[kix4kix]

WOW.