LOL QUE?

[je ne sais quoi]

I've met quite a number of people who have lived in America for more than 30 years and do not speak a lick of English.

 

[tacc4]

Originally Posted by JoseBronx

Originally Posted by TacC4

JoseBronx wrote:

Everyone that comes to this country wants to learn english. Every single immigrant. If it were that easy to learn another language everyone would be bilingual by now. Especially english being a language with weird rules (compared to spanish)

closet racists

I would like to engage in a legitimate debate but if you just want to play the race card and ignore reality, that's cool w/me. I have plenty of things to do besides argue w/someone online...
You've met every single immigrant and can confirm that they want to learn English? And what steps have they taken to do so? Have they taken a single English class? Are they still taking English classes? Get out of here w/that nonsense. Captain Obvious says not everyone in this country wants to LEARN English, they just want to magically be able to speak English. There's a difference.

And, because you know me so well, you know that I'm a closet racist. Despite the fact that my girlfriend is Chinese, my best friend is black, I live with 2 Chinese and 1 Japanese and my step-dad is Filipino. But, you're right, I'm a closet racist. The fact that you casually throw around statements about me being a racist and this politician being a member of the KKK clearly indicate that you have some growing up to do. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a racist. I never said anything about race, neither did the guy from Alabama. If it were about race wouldn't I be saying "everyone should speak English, French or German?"

Get some facts and come back and see me. </Jim Calhoun>

again, how easy do you think it is to learn another language? just ask your girl thats about to drop $600 on rosetta stone. Immigrants have to bust their mass earning less then minimum wage just to "achieve that american dream", you honestly think they have time and patience to pick up a book or take a class to learn english. I can assure you tho, that EVERY single immigrant that comes into this country wants to learn english, EVERY SINGLE. EVERY SINGLE hispanic immigrant want a copy of ingles sin barreras.

You obviously have a think against hispanics or else it why it wouldnt be a burden to 1 for english or 2 para español.

Translation are a big financial issue?

There hundreds of other issues this country is going through, you and this guy running for governor think that translations are the cost of this economic recession? If anything , reaching out to other groups people (other then english speakers) would make more money.

Stop it son, this isnt about race?

Doesnt matter if you and tim james are 1/8 anything. If you think that a person who doesnt speak your language is a threat to you, and you feel that harrasment (the new arizona law) is a way to make thing right? Then theres a problem

Congrats on the straw man. I hope you're proud. I'm done going back-and-forth w/you b/c you don't even respond to my arguments, you just keep repeating the same irrelevant anecdotes. Rather than defending my point of view, I'll defend myself one last time because you obviously gave up on presenting your case a long time ago and decided it'd be better to attack me.
You repeated your belief that every immigrant wants to learn English. And then said they didn't have the patience to do so. Those two statements are mutually exclusive. Again, you need to rephrase your statement to something like "every immigrant wants to know how to speak English."

I don't have a thing or "think" against Hispanics. Its not even worth arguing w/you on this. You don't know me and there's nothing "obvious" about my disposition towards Hispanics. You decided that I disliked Hispanics as soon as I said I agreed w/this guy in the video b/c you decided that he dislikes Hispanics. I will grant you that this guy probably harbors some extreme views but I have not done any research on his voting record and I only said I wanted him on the California ballot (not because I would vote for him but because I would at least like to have some viable options outside of Whitman and Brown - there's a layup, now you can call me a sexist, too). If I had gone through some exercise in futility, like listing the ethnicity of my ex-girlfriends and a VH1Countdown of my best friends and both lists included Hispanics, would you still have made that claim? I'd do myself more harm than good trying to demonstrate how wrong you are on that point. I never said it was a burden to press "1," I said I was not the only American who was upset about the fact that they had to press "1." If you weren't busy looking for reasons to call me a racist you probably would have realized that I was speaking in hyperbole. Being upset is not the same as being burdened. Please don't put words in my mouth. I'm upset about genocide in Darfur. I'm not burdened by it.

Please tell me where I said that translating documents into multiple languages was the cause of the recession. Go through every post I've ever made and tell me where I said that. I understand not agreeing w/my opinion, I actually welcome it b/c it helps me question and refine my beliefs. But you've yet to disagree w/me on anything of substance. The only thing you've done in this thread is impose an irrational set of beliefs on me based on a couple of rational statements. The only reason I brought up money is b/c someone else asked for further examples of the United States helping people who wish to emigrate to the United States. I never even mentioned the recession. Simple as that. But while we're on the topic, please tell me how reaching out to non-English speakers would improve our economy. And in what ways would we reach out to them? I assume you're talking about minorities in the United States. If you're talking about cherry-picking the best and brightest from the rest of the world, the United States already does that passively and actively, as do hundreds - if not thousands - of American corporations. If you're talking about utilizing the best and brightest from the rest of the world, the United States already does that actively through trade. Maybe you weren't aware but the United States is the world's largest importer - by a wide margin. You think we only import products that are made by people who speak English? So we are reaching out to the best that the rest of the world has to offer. Now if you want to talk about what the United States can do to tap into resources from non-English speakers in the United States, I'd be willing to listen to your ideas.

No, this isn't about race. Before I visited France, I took 4 years of French and went to Paris as a semi-fluent speaker. Before I visited Mexico, I took 1 year of Spanish and supplemented that with additional reading on the 10-day trip to Mexico. And that's 10-days before crossing the border, not a 10-day round trip. Its not about race, its about respect for the people who are welcoming you into their country. "When in Rome," as they say. Its flat-out disrespectful to expect everyone else to conform to you. Simple as that. And there's another layup for you. You can claim that I took 4 years of French and 1 year of Spanish b/c I like French four times more than Hispanics. Or you could be realistic and accept that a)I chose my foreign language based on my friends' choice and where the hot girls were and b)learning Spanish in an academic environment is hardly useful when the Spanish speakers around you speak "Mexican." But its fine, I don't mind giving you ammunition. If you're keeping score at home, I'm a racist and sexist.

When did I say that I felt threatened by people who don't speak English? Did I say anything about anyone outside of the United States? If I felt threatened by non-English speakers, wouldn't I be making an argument for mandating that English be spoken around the world? How many times are you going to argue against something I never said? You said yourself that immigrants work less-than-minimum-wage jobs. Your words, not mine. But let's assume you're right. What do I have to fear about a non-English speaker making less-than-minimum wage? If, in fact, I am a racist, isn't that the ideal scenario for me? Wouldn't I be scared that a non-English speaker might someday learn English and take my job? Oh, was that too logical for you? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make sense. I forgot this was NikeTalk and I'm supposed to be the racist white guy and you're supposed to call me out on my racism and throw out ridiculous and unfounded statements about me. We can get back to that after I'm done making sense.

We can debate the legality or racist motivations behind the Arizona immigration law on the other thread but it has almost no relevance to this particular topic. In fact, the only reason its relevant at all is because you're framing this debate as one about race when its actually about speaking a common language. But lets assume that the two issues are closely intertwined. Please tell me where I mentioned the Arizona Immigration Law? I believe this was the 5th point you attempted to make, and the 4th consecutive example of a straw man argument.

So there it is, despite not bringing any substance to the conversation, you did at least finish on a hot streak w/that 4th straight informal fallacy. That's actually pretty impressive for someone on NikeTalk. Congratulations, you did a terrible job of defending your side of the issue. I hope you're happy w/yourself. You left a great impression on me and really went a long way towards changing my mind on the issue of a national language. I'm done replying to you so you can continue whining and calling me a racist. Its easier to point fingers, make me out to be a bad person and post emoticons than it is to formulate an argument, I understand how it is. Wake me up if you decide to say something relevant.

 

[tacc4]

Originally Posted by bruce negro

Saying everyone in Alabama should know how to speak English and that driver's tests should only be administered in English is irrational for a list of reasons

1) America has no "official" language.
2) Specifying only English would not promote multi-linguism. In the job market today, it's VERY wise to know more than just English. That's why many Mexicans are actually learning English AND Mandarin in their schools now.
3) Expecting adults who immigrate from different countries to learn English quickly is ridiculous. The older you become, the harder it is for you to learn a new language completely. These people should not be allowed to drive now? As an adult, driving is a key part of transportation to jobs and other venues. Where does this leave those people?

And if you want to prove or disprove someone is a closet racist, have them take the Harvard Implicit Association Test. It shows you how biased you are against certain groups.

Here you go: https://implicit.harvard....it/demo/selectatest.html

For those of you who feel strongly that this candidate is right, how about you take the proper test and learn something about yourselves =]

1)If the United States passed legislation tomorrow stating that English was the official language of the country, would this change your stance? I find this to be a pretty fragile part of your argument. The only claim you could make is that people emigrated to the United States on the assumption that they would not be forced to speak English.
2)Making English the national language would not inhibit multi-lingual efforts, either. I can't imagine a much more useful skill in the 21st century than speaking Mandarin and English. Its not about encouraging or discouraging multi-lingual speakers; its about disenfranchising English-only speakers.

3)Nobody is being forced to immigrate to the United States. I understand that people live in poverty the world over. I understand that the United States is a beacon of hope for billions of people. I believe that the United States should help as many people as reasonably possible, in a number of ways. But please don't try to frame this as a way of oppressing minorities. My response to this is the same argument I made about getting admitted to Yale yesterday. Yale should not have been expected to lower its standards b/c I didn't score 1600 on my SAT. Yale is the best school in the world b/c it is selective about who is admitted to the university and those students play an active role in maintaining the prestige that the school has achieved. I'm not saying that allowing immigrants into the United States will jeopardize America's role as a superpower, so please don't attack me on that front.
I've taken Harvard IATs a number of times but I'd be more than happy to take one again and post my results here unnecessarily for all the world to see....

[h2]Your data suggest a slight automatic preference for African American compared to European American.[/h2]
I disagree w/that assessment but perhaps all this time around the hippies in Berkeley has had a strong impression on me. Its possible that my data is skewed b/c I'm familiar w/the test but a)they account for that by asking how many times you've taken the test and b)you're answering so fast that you really have no time to overcome an inherent bias. There's not much else I can do at this point. I know I'm not racist. My disposition towards the people around me backs this up. My choices of friends supports this. And now this test - which is covered in almost every substantial lower division psychology class and is NOT some online IQ test - actually implies that I prefer African Americans to my own race. I can't wait to hear JoseBronx say that I hate Hispanics and that's why I didn't take the skin-tone exam.

 

[mytmouse76]

i strongly prefer thin people over fat people...

 

[ouch my feet]

OMG Idiocracy. ITS HAPPENING!

 

[breakyaneck3000]

Originally Posted by West2East

When will people realize that only speaking one language actually puts our children and us at a disadvantage especially when it comes to competing with the world market. In many other countries it is the norm to grow up speaking and learning at least 2 different languages if not more.

Oh and it may save you money on printing the forms but then you're not generating the income from those applications so it could ends up costing the state of Alabama more than it saved. That could not fly here in CA at all.

exactly.  a company will hire someone who is bilingual before someone who speaks just one language.  it's not necessary but it makes all the difference when it comes to getting a job, especially if that company is international.  in some fields, a person with bilingual skills will be hired over someone who has earned a more prestigious degree from 'x' university.

and whatever happened to learning languages for the sake of becoming a more cultured and prepared individual?  you know, expanding your mind?!  your brain grows "connectors" as you gain more knowledge throughout life. 

this guy is promoting the "dumbification of america" in full effect.  he doesn't care about people.  "maybe it's the businessman in him".  i feel sorry for his supporters.

his ads are hilarious though... at the end when he says "it makes sense to me", then he looks down like if he was in deep thought, looks at camera and says "does it make sense to you?".  what a clown.

 

[blaxoid]

I can't stand people who don't want to integrate into the culture that they immigrate to. I know it's hard - I'm also an immigrant (diff country), but you chose to move to this place so therefore it's on you.

Having said that, some essential things such as driving should be more helpful by being in native languages. Maybe they can restrict it that you have to take it in English after 3 years, giving you plenty of time to get your %*# into gear and learn the language.

Also to the guy who says everyone wants to learn English, thats BS. Just go to your nearest China town - most people will do only what they have to do to live their daily lives. They may want to know English, but the majority won't work hard unless they have to(which is what this Governor is basing his message on I assume)

Cultures are a beautiful thing but it's only respectful to try your hardest to learn the culture & language of your new home.

 

[tus4prez]

[table][tr][td]The Daily Show With Jon Stewart[/td][td]Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c[/td][/tr][tr][td]Language Burier[/td][/tr][tr][td]www.thedailyshow.com[/td][/tr][tr][td] [/td][/tr][tr][td][table][tr][td]Daily Show Full Episodes[/td][td]Political Humor[/td][td]Tea Party[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]

 

[boys noize]

Originally Posted by TacC4

Originally Posted by JoseBronx

Originally Posted by TacC4

JoseBronx wrote:

Everyonethat comes to this country wants to learn english. Every singleimmigrant. If it were that easy to learn another language everyonewould be bilingual by now. Especially english being a language withweird rules (compared to spanish)

closet racists

Iwould like to engage in a legitimate debate but if you just want toplay the race card and ignore reality, that's cool w/me. I have plentyof things to do besides argue w/someone online...
You'vemet every single immigrant and can confirm that they want to learnEnglish? And what steps have they taken to do so? Have they taken asingle English class? Are they still taking English classes? Get out ofhere w/that nonsense. Captain Obvious says not everyone in this countrywants to LEARN English, they just want to magically be able to speakEnglish. There's a difference.

And, becauseyou know me so well, you know that I'm a closet racist. Despite thefact that my girlfriend is Chinese, my best friend is black, I livewith 2 Chinese and 1 Japanese and my step-dad is Filipino. But, you'reright, I'm a closet racist. The fact that you casually throw aroundstatements about me being a racist and this politician being a memberof the KKK clearly indicate that you have some growing up to do. Justbecause someone disagrees with you does not make them a racist. I neversaid anything about race, neither did the guy from Alabama. If it wereabout race wouldn't I be saying "everyone should speak English, Frenchor German?"

Get some facts and come back and see me. </Jim Calhoun>

again,how easy do you think it is to learn another language? just ask yourgirl thats about to drop $600 on rosetta stone. Immigrants have to busttheir mass earning less then minimum wage just to "achieve thatamerican dream", you honestly think they have time and patience to pickup a book or take a class to learn english. I can assure you tho, thatEVERY single immigrant that comes into this country wants to learnenglish, EVERY SINGLE. EVERY SINGLE hispanic immigrant want a copy ofingles sin barreras.

You obviously have a think against hispanics or else it why it wouldnt be a burden to 1 for english or 2 para español.

Translation are a big financial issue?

There hundreds of other issues this country is going through, you andthis guy running for governor think that translations are the cost ofthis economic recession? If anything , reaching out to other groupspeople (other then english speakers) would make more money.

Stop it son, this isnt about race?

Doesntmatter if you and tim james are 1/8 anything. If you think that aperson who doesnt speak your language is a threat to you, and you feelthat harrasment (the new arizona law) is a way to make thing right?Then theres a problem

GODDAMN

You're one of my new favorite posters. I don't care how you feel about the iPad, at least you present logical arguments.

I'm not sure how I exactly feel on this issue. On one hand, it makes perfect sense for people to know some basic level of English if they are to live in this country. On the other, the reality of immigrants having the time and ability to learn the language is not exactly the clearest thing. My grandparents came to the US when they were middle-aged and have never been able to grasp the English language and it's not like they have not tried. I feel like there are much bigger issues to tackle as opposed to niche issues like this that play on the emotions of xenophobic Americans.