- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
Article two posts down
Yuku
Yuku
Michael Vick, Blackness & Morality
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by airmaxpenny1,
- Start date
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
Article two posts down
Yuku
Yuku
- 21,151
- 37
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
Looks like an interesting topic, Durasheen. But u didn't post anything.
- 21,151
- 37
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
Looks like an interesting topic, Durasheen. But u didn't post anything.
- 7,349
- 242
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
Well I see blackness, where's morality and Vick?
- 7,349
- 242
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2002
Well I see blackness, where's morality and Vick?
- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
I'm all about thinking outside the box, but...
- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
I'm all about thinking outside the box, but...
- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- 16,335
- 13
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- 20,261
- 2,188
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1
Vick's Ascension Magnifies Racial Divide
Public views of Michael Vick go beyond his play on the field. (Ron Cortes/Staff Photographer)
http://
Does race play a part in the public's perception of Michael Vick?
Yes
No
View results
I was talking to an ex-NFL player last week, guy I hadn't seen in a while, and eventually we got around to Michael Vick. The ex-player is African-American, from the rural South. His take was that Vick's prison term for dogfighting was way too harsh, and that people should let that go, as Vick remakes himself as the quarterback of the Eagles. The ex-player recalled seeing Sunday afternoon dogfights in a park where he grew up, witnessed (and presumably wagered upon) by the local police.
This was not an isolated occurrence. I think if you surveyed the largely African-American Eagles locker room, that guy's take would be the perspective of a huge percentage of the players.
Race is such a tricky, hot-button thing, so many of us just try to pretend it isn't a part of the issues we deal with, even when it obviously is.The Eagles' locker room shocked much of the (white) fan base by voting Vick the Ed Block Courage Award last year. Hmmm. What do you think that was about?
Another conversation last week, with a (white) agent. He was talking about going to a Super Bowl party many years ago, when Vick was near the start of his career. The party was largely African-American, and the agent remembered being surprised at how Vick's presence resonated with other famous players and guests -- "it was like Michael Jordan had walked in," the agent said.
One of the reasons Roger Goodell was so interested in Vick's rehabilitation was Vick's standing in the African-American community. Predogfight scandal, by 2007 much of white America might have seen Vick as a sideshow, a quarterback who never took his craft seriously enough to win anything. Black America saw an artist, an elegant, unstoppable performer. (They now see him as an elegant, unstoppable performer who has been persecuted by white people.)
This was much like the split that surrounded Allen Iverson in his prime. (A guy from the exact same background, a few neighborhoods over.)
So, here we are, with Vick starting for the Eagles, and playing well. All over the Internet, people (mostly African-American) argue that he has paid his dues and should be embraced. Other people (mostly not African-American) argue that torturing and killing dogs over a period of years isn't something you just shrug off because a guy went to prison for a while and is now playing real well.
I don't see any easy answers, an unqualified yes to one and no to the other. Obviously, I didn't grow up black in the rural South. I grew up white in the suburban South. I think I understand a little of the "cultural" argument. I never saw a dogfight, but in my family, dogs were not cuddly little foo-foo things; they lived outdoors, didn't come in the house. One neighbor had a kennel of hunting dogs, and gave us one who couldn't hunt.
Still, I found myself wanting to ask the ex-player last week, "So, after these dogfights in the park, did you watch the dogs being hanged and electrocuted? Did you think, 'Gee, that looks like fun, I'd like to kill some of those dogs myself!' Over and over and over again?"
Vick has been nothing but decent and courteous to me. I can't reconcile what he has done with the guy I talk to in the Eagles' locker room. I'm really hoping to get a better handle on that as we move forward. And as a sports reporter, I can't let my discomfort with what he did make me discount what he does on the field; if I let that happen, I am not doing my job.
But I'll admit, I find the idea of Vick "sticking it to" his critics by playing well a really perverse, obnoxious notion. He can throw for 100 touchdowns this year, and he still did what he did, and it was still really, really, really wrong.
The only hope for something good coming out of Vick's ascension that I can see is that maybe Vick will gain a greater platform to somehow explain himself, that he can give us a better notion than he has so far of how these things can possibly happen, and demonstrate through his words and deeds he is really a different person now.
But I think it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Read more: [url=http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Vicks_Ascension_Magnifies_Racial_Divide.html#ixzz1138NCgwG]http://www.philly.com/phi...ivide.html#ixzz1138NCgwG[/url]
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else
- 20,261
- 2,188
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2006
Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1
Vick's Ascension Magnifies Racial Divide
Public views of Michael Vick go beyond his play on the field. (Ron Cortes/Staff Photographer)
http://
Does race play a part in the public's perception of Michael Vick?
Yes
No
View results
I was talking to an ex-NFL player last week, guy I hadn't seen in a while, and eventually we got around to Michael Vick. The ex-player is African-American, from the rural South. His take was that Vick's prison term for dogfighting was way too harsh, and that people should let that go, as Vick remakes himself as the quarterback of the Eagles. The ex-player recalled seeing Sunday afternoon dogfights in a park where he grew up, witnessed (and presumably wagered upon) by the local police.
This was not an isolated occurrence. I think if you surveyed the largely African-American Eagles locker room, that guy's take would be the perspective of a huge percentage of the players.
Race is such a tricky, hot-button thing, so many of us just try to pretend it isn't a part of the issues we deal with, even when it obviously is.The Eagles' locker room shocked much of the (white) fan base by voting Vick the Ed Block Courage Award last year. Hmmm. What do you think that was about?
Another conversation last week, with a (white) agent. He was talking about going to a Super Bowl party many years ago, when Vick was near the start of his career. The party was largely African-American, and the agent remembered being surprised at how Vick's presence resonated with other famous players and guests -- "it was like Michael Jordan had walked in," the agent said.
One of the reasons Roger Goodell was so interested in Vick's rehabilitation was Vick's standing in the African-American community. Predogfight scandal, by 2007 much of white America might have seen Vick as a sideshow, a quarterback who never took his craft seriously enough to win anything. Black America saw an artist, an elegant, unstoppable performer. (They now see him as an elegant, unstoppable performer who has been persecuted by white people.)
This was much like the split that surrounded Allen Iverson in his prime. (A guy from the exact same background, a few neighborhoods over.)
So, here we are, with Vick starting for the Eagles, and playing well. All over the Internet, people (mostly African-American) argue that he has paid his dues and should be embraced. Other people (mostly not African-American) argue that torturing and killing dogs over a period of years isn't something you just shrug off because a guy went to prison for a while and is now playing real well.
I don't see any easy answers, an unqualified yes to one and no to the other. Obviously, I didn't grow up black in the rural South. I grew up white in the suburban South. I think I understand a little of the "cultural" argument. I never saw a dogfight, but in my family, dogs were not cuddly little foo-foo things; they lived outdoors, didn't come in the house. One neighbor had a kennel of hunting dogs, and gave us one who couldn't hunt.
Still, I found myself wanting to ask the ex-player last week, "So, after these dogfights in the park, did you watch the dogs being hanged and electrocuted? Did you think, 'Gee, that looks like fun, I'd like to kill some of those dogs myself!' Over and over and over again?"
Vick has been nothing but decent and courteous to me. I can't reconcile what he has done with the guy I talk to in the Eagles' locker room. I'm really hoping to get a better handle on that as we move forward. And as a sports reporter, I can't let my discomfort with what he did make me discount what he does on the field; if I let that happen, I am not doing my job.
But I'll admit, I find the idea of Vick "sticking it to" his critics by playing well a really perverse, obnoxious notion. He can throw for 100 touchdowns this year, and he still did what he did, and it was still really, really, really wrong.
The only hope for something good coming out of Vick's ascension that I can see is that maybe Vick will gain a greater platform to somehow explain himself, that he can give us a better notion than he has so far of how these things can possibly happen, and demonstrate through his words and deeds he is really a different person now.
But I think it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Read more: [url=http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/Vicks_Ascension_Magnifies_Racial_Divide.html#ixzz1138NCgwG]http://www.philly.com/phi...ivide.html#ixzz1138NCgwG[/url]
Watch sports videos you won't find anywhere else
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
%*%*#+% Yuku deleted about 3 paragraphs of my own writing
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up a
every time the dude completes a pass. Plus, I'ma McNabb guy
(A guy who really has taken unjust criticism imo because of his race). I just wanted to see what your guys feeling on this was, as this topic will surely dominate the NFL landscape this season.
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up a
- 11,980
- 18
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2005
%*%*#+% Yuku deleted about 3 paragraphs of my own writing
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up a
every time the dude completes a pass. Plus, I'ma McNabb guy
(A guy who really has taken unjust criticism imo because of his race). I just wanted to see what your guys feeling on this was, as this topic will surely dominate the NFL landscape this season.
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up a
- 14,601
- 2,182
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
change the font color OP
I pretty much agree with what was said in the article. Certain people (mainly white folks because we know they are MAJOR dog lovers) will not let the dogfighting thing go even though Vick has paid his debt to society and accepted all the punishment from his actions. That's just how it is, people are just naturally more likely to defend/forgive their own kind for their wrongdoing moreso than a different race.
I pretty much agree with what was said in the article. Certain people (mainly white folks because we know they are MAJOR dog lovers) will not let the dogfighting thing go even though Vick has paid his debt to society and accepted all the punishment from his actions. That's just how it is, people are just naturally more likely to defend/forgive their own kind for their wrongdoing moreso than a different race.
- 14,601
- 2,182
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
change the font color OP
I pretty much agree with what was said in the article. Certain people (mainly white folks because we know they are MAJOR dog lovers) will not let the dogfighting thing go even though Vick has paid his debt to society and accepted all the punishment from his actions. That's just how it is, people are just naturally more likely to defend/forgive their own kind for their wrongdoing moreso than a different race.
I pretty much agree with what was said in the article. Certain people (mainly white folks because we know they are MAJOR dog lovers) will not let the dogfighting thing go even though Vick has paid his debt to society and accepted all the punishment from his actions. That's just how it is, people are just naturally more likely to defend/forgive their own kind for their wrongdoing moreso than a different race.
- 20,034
- 9,761
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2001
This is excellent boarding.
- 20,034
- 9,761
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2001
This is excellent boarding.
- 6,806
- 2,209
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2005
^
- 6,806
- 2,209
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2005
^
- 21,151
- 37
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1
%*%*#+% Yuku deleted about 3 paragraphs of my own writing
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up aevery time the dude completes a pass. Plus, I'ma McNabb guy(A guy who really has taken unjust criticism imo because of his race). I just wanted to see what your guys feeling on this was, as this topic will surely dominate the NFL landscape this season.
I've got two dogs who I love very much, and what Mike Vick did was absolutely disgusting. However, I'm all about redemption and getting a 2nd chance in life if you are about making that change for the better. If he's 100% contrite for what he did in his past and is TRULY about making himself a better man, then more power to him. Dude was living a reckless life until he got locked up. I think he gained a sense of perspective on his life and an appreciation for being an NFL athlete. Vick took all that !%%+ for granted before everything fell apart. He's still young and has a few more years to earn some NFL $. All that being said, I WILL NOT ever associate Mike Vick as being a victim in this whole situation. He made terrible decisions in his life and ultimately had to pay for what he did. He hit rock-bottom and is on his way back up. If anything, he should be the inspiration for many people who have been incarcerated who want to do right and get themselves on the straight and narrow. It's good to see him (seemingly) humble and playing good football. He's had a long road to get to where he is now, and I'm sure he came out of his ordeal as a better man. No matter what becomes of his NFL career from here on out, I just hope that people stay in his corner on a personal level when he goes back to his sub-80 QB rating or has an awful game.
- 21,151
- 37
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2004
Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1
%*%*#+% Yuku deleted about 3 paragraphs of my own writing
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up aevery time the dude completes a pass. Plus, I'ma McNabb guy(A guy who really has taken unjust criticism imo because of his race). I just wanted to see what your guys feeling on this was, as this topic will surely dominate the NFL landscape this season.
I've got two dogs who I love very much, and what Mike Vick did was absolutely disgusting. However, I'm all about redemption and getting a 2nd chance in life if you are about making that change for the better. If he's 100% contrite for what he did in his past and is TRULY about making himself a better man, then more power to him. Dude was living a reckless life until he got locked up. I think he gained a sense of perspective on his life and an appreciation for being an NFL athlete. Vick took all that !%%+ for granted before everything fell apart. He's still young and has a few more years to earn some NFL $. All that being said, I WILL NOT ever associate Mike Vick as being a victim in this whole situation. He made terrible decisions in his life and ultimately had to pay for what he did. He hit rock-bottom and is on his way back up. If anything, he should be the inspiration for many people who have been incarcerated who want to do right and get themselves on the straight and narrow. It's good to see him (seemingly) humble and playing good football. He's had a long road to get to where he is now, and I'm sure he came out of his ordeal as a better man. No matter what becomes of his NFL career from here on out, I just hope that people stay in his corner on a personal level when he goes back to his sub-80 QB rating or has an awful game.
airmaxpenny1 wrote:
%*%*#+% Yuku deleted about 3 paragraphs of my own writing
I was talking with my pops about the situation, and I was saying I understand why black people root for Michael Vick. Blacks are the victims of a criminal justice system which routinely throws them in jail undeserving, in a society which seems to put up every obstacle possible for them to ascertain success. For them, Michael Vick I would guess represents the second chance that 99.9% of black men who get out of jail never get, and for that I understand it.
I myself however, find it hard to root for him. I am a dog lover, and it's not just the dog fighting that bothers me, but the way he killed the animals. He hung and electrocuted them. To me that doesn't just show a disregard for animal life but for all life in general. And the second chance that Mike Vick is getting to me is not one of justice but straight economics. Michael Vick is going to pad these rich, white billionaires pockets with more and more money. I have trouble seeing Mike Vick as a victim. The guy had it all. He head 100 million dollar deal, huge endorsements despite the fact that he was a mediocre QB. Mike Vick was a guy who imo, rarely seemed to give a +$@% about his craft or getting better in football. That's not to say that I think he should be in prison for the rest of his life or on the field for that matter. He has every right to be playing. I just am not going to be one of those guys who throws up aevery time the dude completes a pass. Plus, I'ma McNabb guy(A guy who really has taken unjust criticism imo because of his race). I just wanted to see what your guys feeling on this was, as this topic will surely dominate the NFL landscape this season.
The article you posted and stuff you said here is interesting.
Before Vick got busted, I thought of him as an excellent athlete, but as the article said, I viewed him as a guy that didn't work hard, just so damn supremely talented that he could get by. I liked watching him run and seeing other teams fail at trying to catch him, but I would grow frustrated with him trying to "run" the offense as in being a typical passing QB. Alot of his throws would be off, he would miss guys that were open, I just didn't understand how a guy with his arm could make some of the throws he did.
When he went down, I was not a fan of his. Liked watching him play, he was certainly an entertaining player and a guy that could make a special play at any moment. But overall, I didn't view him as a guy that would win games and carry a team to a super bowl. I thought he deserved to go to jail (though, for the length of time I have no opinion as I know nothing about dog fighting or any of that, so 6 months, 18 months, 50 years, I have no idea what's fair or not) but I did think he should at least spend SOME time in jail. When he got out and worked on coming back, I had no problem with it, he did his time, if he can play, and someone wants to get him on their team, go for it.
Mostly he got his legs under him last year. Obviously we all knew it would take him some time to catch up to the NFL.
But this year, I have seen most of all 3 of his games, and expect to watch most of the game this Sunday as well. And to be honest, I'm happy he's able to come out and play well and I hope he does even better as the year goes along. I didn't consider myself a fan of him before, but I would consider myself a fan of him now. He went thru a very tough situation, dealt wtih it, came back, fought hard to get himself back to the game, and has shown a tremendous amount of work to be successful after so much time away. I can root for a guy like that.Maybe i was wrong about him before, maybe I wasn't, no way for me to know for sure. But I honestly do hope that he stays healthy and has a great year with Philly and maybe more people will start to come around and let the guy live. And if Philly still tries to go with Kolb next year, then I hope another team gives him a shot to play and continue proving people wrong.
