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http://www.pjtv.com/v/2343
No option to embed, you really only need to watch the first 3:10 of the clip.
No option to embed, you really only need to watch the first 3:10 of the clip.
MSNBC Lies Too
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by da703trailblaza,
- Start date
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Wow thats pretty bad. Horrible piece by MSNBC
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http://da703trailblaza.u.yuku.com
da703trailblaza
Cool dude - don't think this would've fit well in the other post from yesterday? I know that's not the m.o. of your people though.
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Cool dude - don't think this would've fit well in the other post from yesterday? I know that's not the m.o. of your people though.
1. I don't gravedig unless its necessary.
2. With all the Rick Sanchez slurping and Fox bashing I thought this deserved its own thread.
3. Who is my people?
If you said libertarians you would be absolutely right! But you probably didn't, assumptions FTL
and spsfinest212 shoulda done this instead
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damn.
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Very good article and the points are all extremely valid but you have to accept that the reason they have to do what the video says they do is because they areignorant. They don't want to watch this, they just want to throw up an emoticon or bring up something completely off topic.
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"Everybody lies."
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When MSNBC was the opposition network, tirelessly opposing Bush, I thought they were sometimes overzealous, melodramatic and often times sanctimonious but theyserved a crucial function in our Republic, they were the unceasing opposition to power. Because I am not a traditional or cultural conservative, I often timesagreed with their Bush bashing.
Now, as a libertarian, I see MSNBC as dangerous. They are now mouth pieces of the left wing of the Democratic party, the water carriers of power, and they aresupporting what is no less than a path to serfdom. I see them as a threat because they are not just going after hardline conservatives, they are going againstall dissenters. They portray conservative Democrats, moderates and libertarians as not just ideological enemies but as enemies of the state. They are even moredangerous than Fow News, for two reasons.
One is that while Fox News at least feigns humility and a folksy populist image, MSNBC hosts act like they are elite experts and uniquely qualified scholarswhose options are matters of fact and the result of scientific thinking. This false aura of science and intellect is bad because those who view and adopt theirviews will be even less likely to consider alternatives than someone who heard a polemic and knew it was polemic's words.
Second, MSNBC's parent company is a ward of the state, GE's future lies in bigger and more powerful government. Fox News is bad enough being driven myRupert Murdoch's ideology but MSNBC's programming is driven by the interests of GE, which are directly opposed to the general welfare and prosperity ofthe ordinary Americans.
It is ironic because for many years it was people on the left who warned us about and complained a great deal about media outlets being owned by big companies,who would use the media outlet to influence policy in their favor. They called it the "corporate media" and they always presumed that it was aconservative force. So now, the worst of all cooporate media scenarios is coming to fruition in the form of MSNBC and the left is cheering on what they had forso long detested. The other great irony is that the long held mantra of the left, "question authority" has been thoroughly cast aside and all thosewho question authority are either violent potential assassins, racists or both.
Now, as a libertarian, I see MSNBC as dangerous. They are now mouth pieces of the left wing of the Democratic party, the water carriers of power, and they aresupporting what is no less than a path to serfdom. I see them as a threat because they are not just going after hardline conservatives, they are going againstall dissenters. They portray conservative Democrats, moderates and libertarians as not just ideological enemies but as enemies of the state. They are even moredangerous than Fow News, for two reasons.
One is that while Fox News at least feigns humility and a folksy populist image, MSNBC hosts act like they are elite experts and uniquely qualified scholarswhose options are matters of fact and the result of scientific thinking. This false aura of science and intellect is bad because those who view and adopt theirviews will be even less likely to consider alternatives than someone who heard a polemic and knew it was polemic's words.
Second, MSNBC's parent company is a ward of the state, GE's future lies in bigger and more powerful government. Fox News is bad enough being driven myRupert Murdoch's ideology but MSNBC's programming is driven by the interests of GE, which are directly opposed to the general welfare and prosperity ofthe ordinary Americans.
It is ironic because for many years it was people on the left who warned us about and complained a great deal about media outlets being owned by big companies,who would use the media outlet to influence policy in their favor. They called it the "corporate media" and they always presumed that it was aconservative force. So now, the worst of all cooporate media scenarios is coming to fruition in the form of MSNBC and the left is cheering on what they had forso long detested. The other great irony is that the long held mantra of the left, "question authority" has been thoroughly cast aside and all thosewho question authority are either violent potential assassins, racists or both.
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Originally Posted by da703trailblaza
Cool dude - don't think this would've fit well in the other post from yesterday? I know that's not the m.o. of your people though.
1. I don't gravedig unless its necessary.
I believe the thread was made yesterday...
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I believe the thread was made yesterday...Originally Posted by GTEK
Originally Posted by da703trailblaza
Cool dude - don't think this would've fit well in the other post from yesterday? I know that's not the m.o. of your people though.
1. I don't gravedig unless its necessary.
It's probably on page 4 or 5 why go though the trouble of finding that thread. Thank you for your lovely contribution.
Rex I agree with your assessment about GE, There's a reason I prefer Bloomberg to CNBC. I love how CNBC ignores the existence of Visa simply because theyhave corporate agreements with Mastercard.
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So y'all wanna talk about Fox News but not MSNBC?
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Originally Posted by da703trailblaza
So y'all wanna talk about Fox News but not MSNBC?
Of course, I have found this to be true in many posts. Anytime a fact is brought up in a post that can't be defended by generic liberal reasoning, they allleave the thread and never return again.
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All facets of media are bias to some degree.
MSNBC is the extreme left. FOX is the extreme right.
This is not new.
But MSNBC never riled up people against Bush enough to believe that he is going to ruin and destroy our country.
MSNBC is the extreme left. FOX is the extreme right.
This is not new.
But MSNBC never riled up people against Bush enough to believe that he is going to ruin and destroy our country.
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Kenneth Gladney, that guy was not severely beaten go to video and watch for yourself...........This guy Gladney who said he was severely beaten was up andscreaming for the cops when it just finished. And later in the week he was in a wheelchair and hopped up on medication? If he was hurt so bad he wouldn'thave been up screaming and running around. Waving at the police... And his "video proof" shows..
Gladney in the tan shirt
Gladney in the tan shirt
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Now on to the other guy... More so irresponsible journalism... If you think MSNBC is a bunch of liberal loons headed by Keith Olbermann, you will bedisappointed to hear Olbermann showed the guys face that night. Now people bringing guns to Town Hall Meetings out in the open is rather unprecedented I wonderwhat the difference is now? Oh yeah Obama is black.. Now the way they reported it in the afternoon is irresponsible but if they do not ask questions whenracial tension has grown a heap in the past 2 years it would be equally irresponsible. By the way look into the guy interviewing (Ernest Hancock) the personwith the assault rifle and then look into his pastor Steven Anderson (there is a video of Steven Anderson preaching from the pulpit praying that Obama isassassinated.) I wonder how Fox would have reacted if a guy brought a gun to a Bush Rally.. Would they say hey it's his right as an American.. I am willingto bet not
Now I would like to be a @*#! and end off on this
MSNBC =/= Fox.. and MSNBC will never be worse that Fox no matter how hard you wish them to be.
Now I would like to be a @*#! and end off on this
MSNBC =/= Fox.. and MSNBC will never be worse that Fox no matter how hard you wish them to be.
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Good post Rex, as always.
I don't want to argue against it so much as attempt to readjust your claims a bit. I think it's entirely true what you're saying about GE andtheir true intentions, and I agree entirely that the left has gotten overran by the idiots who are power hungry and who've forgotten the idea ofquestioning authority.
However - that doesn't mean there are not plenty of violent potential assassins, racists, and both running around right now in this country. And thesepeople are extremely dangerous to this country as well.
More to the point though - I think you've got it a bit backwards with going after just MSNBC in your argument while sort've giving Fox the lesser oftwo evils pass. It's my view that they're after the same thing, in the end - and that's complete control. It is also my view that they areworking together on this in many ways, in some sort of unspoken agreement for the better of both entities.
You're mentioning how MSNBC is portraying dissenters as enemies of the state, when it was George Bush himself and the Fox News channel's big push toweed out anybody who was speaking against our president in a "time of war". That's the exact type of finger pointing me and many others didtowards Fox News and the republican party just a few years back, when they were passing the patriot act while coming up with new legislation to allow them toname people in this country terrorists for nealry any action.
I think you're being a bit short-sighted in not realizing how both sides have played this game very recently, in almost identical fashion. Which is whatmakes me believe they're both playing for the same team - themselves.
A similar irony is seen by me, that much of the right's agenda used to be about limiting governments role in our country - only to watch the last presidentpush the government into our lives more than they'd ever been, through the use of fear tactics and what have you.
It's become completely obvious that these politicians and corporations are all playing us against each other, in these left versus right debates... when inreality, when they get into office, both sides are pretty much doing the same types of things and taking turns taking the blame for it. It's quite geniusreally.
What isn't genius is how nobody seems to be noticing this - including, apparently, yourself. I could change about 5 words in your entire last post, dateit 5 years ago, and it would read perfectly. Consider the source of all our major problems in this country right now, and it all comes back to corporationswho have grown far too big and far too powerful to seriously regulate any longer - big medicine, big auto, big tobacco, big oil... etc, etc, etc, etc...
They are playing us... I don't know how to make this any clearer. I'm not saying your points are invalid, I'm just saying I think you're onlyseeing part of the picture when you say those things.
Both major parties are now ran and controlled by these corporations, who are pushing these agendas in the name of one side or the other - and spending theiroff years ( out of the majority share of power ) spreading propaganda against the other side, even if it's the exact same platform they ran on just a yearbefore.
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From the September 3rd broadcast of Countdown with Keith Olbermann
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Marked to read later.
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By the way I would like someone to find me the video where anyone in any sort of prominent position on the Left says that all opposition to Obama isunpatriotic, or racist.
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Crftz, you are right that much of what I am saying about MSNC could be applied to Fox a few years ago and Iyou are right. I was never over looking that point, I am not giving Fox News a pass. It was bad when Fox helped in claiming that dissenters were enemies of thestate, it was bad that they were mouth pieces for the Bush White House. As far as MSNBC is concerned, it is worst then Fox News at the moment, due to presentcircumstances. Fox News was the worst less than year ago, when Bush was in office. Those who lick the boots of power alternative in terms of which is mostdeserving of our contempt based on which faction is in power. If things someday switch and some ultra conservative is in office and the Congress is made up oflarge Republican majorities, Fox News will regain its title as the most dangerous news organization.
Essential, I know that Keith Olbermann will sometimes criticize president Obama but his criticism only emerges when he thinks the President is straying awayideological purity. When ever the president makes small concession to Republicans or even moderate Democrats, Olbermann implores him to be a hardliner, tocrush all opposition. Meanwhile, he will still use his show to support the agenda which he wants the president to pursue. Whether President Obama pursues thehard left policies that Olbermann and his viewer prefer or President Obama takes softer line, he can operate in an environment where one of the three majorcable news outlets portrays every conservative, moderate and libertarian as a racists, as evil, as maliciously greedy, as traitors, as violent maniacs or somecombination of thereof.
You may be right that none of the most prominent 10 or 20 people on the left have actually said that all who disagree are racists. However, it has been impliedthat all those or most of those, whose policy views differ from Obama's, (except of course for those who want him to be even further to the left) areracists and that many are just chomping at the bit to kill someone or commit some other act of terrorism. I could handle MSNBC going after that 20% of voterswho still supported President Bush in 2008, the radical right wingers.
What has me considering MSNBC so dangerous is that everyday they say that those who want smaller government,those who disagree with the president's policies on their merits, those who truly do not care about the president's race are all, in fact racists, andthat "socialism" is some secret code word and is the new "n word." That is not only untrue but dangerous. It is only a matter of time untilsome politician or pundit, who is not racist and who simply is concerned with the rapid growth of government (and yes going on hard measures of GDP being takeninto government control and by the size of the pending budgetary shortfalls, it is much worse than the actions of any previous administration since the end ofWorld War II) is going to be attacked and possibly killed by an MSNBC devotee.
As someone who has followed politics for a long while now, more than a decade now, I did see Fox News use fear to promote the GOP agenda, I did seem them flashthe terrorism color bar across the screen and it was disgusting. What Fox News did not do though, is give its viewers the impression that people on the farleft (the direct adversaries of President Bush) were sub humans. On some, not all but some MSNBC programs, they never have conservatives (or moderates orlibertarians) on the show. This makes sense from their point of view because simply being conservative is to be guilty of being wrong and second sub humans,the reasoning goes, cannot defend themselves as dog or an ape accused of harming a human cannot speak in court. At best conservative will be tried in absentiain the court of Olbermann and what ever, always-in-ideological-lock-step, guest is on the that segment and that guest is always doing this in a devil'sadvocate sort of way.
Another thing that Fox did not do was persistently imply that any one with views to the left of President Bush should be considered potential assassins orterrorists. They said some pretty bad things and accused anti war protestors of giving aid and comfort to the enemy but they did not reach the consensus thatthose who disagree are the enemy. MSNBC has taken the notion of dissenters to be violent traitors to another level. Thanks to Nancy Pelosi's"heartfelt" recounting of the days before Harvey Milk's murder, MSNBC's most hard- line hosts are unceasingly using this to say that if youare against us you probably are a terrorist. It makes Bush's ultimatum "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists" seem downrightnuanced and diplomatic when compared to "you are with us or you are a terrorist."
So in short, MSNBC during this first year or so of the Obama Presidency has been worse than was Fox News during the Bush years. Today's MSNBC paints withthe broadest of brushes; Fox targeted the far left while MSNBC goes after the far right, moderate Republicans, Centrist Republicans, Centrists Democrats,Conservative Democrats and even libertarians like me. The condemnation given by MSNBC is even more than what Fox gave. Again, there has been focused anddisciplined effort to say that those who were against the stimulus "want" the economy to "fail." Those who are concerned about ballooningbudgets are racists. Those who point out how costly the public option will be are apparently ready to kill. Those who disagree with our economic policy beingdetermined primarily by a few powerful labor unions are thirsting for blood. Discerning mind of all political stripes should be able to see through this butMSNBC is very popular amongst those who are not yet discerning, college freshman and other political neophytes.
While Fox is the station for the ignorant, MSNBC is the channel for the sophomoric, those who have a little bit of real information under their belts and asresult they are even less likely than the ignorant to consider other points of view and to ever revise point of view after they have adopted it. Furthermore,the one possessing some but far from a lot of information about the state of the world and about how politics works is the most likely to do something radicaland violent. The sophomoric ones are usually the ones who believe that their cause is the most righteous and that cause's leaders are infallible.
It is sad that this discussion even has to happen but it has been necessitated by a public with an appetite for disrespect of different points of views, nationthat views compromise as weakness and body politic that considers a periodic review of one's own views as a sin. This has been fed and the two biggestculprits amongst the media are MSNBC and Fox News. While MSNBC is the worst at the moment, I am not excusing Fox because in many ways Fox laid out a blueprintwhich MSNBC copied and then built upon and made more sophisticated. I have no doubts that when Government returns to GOP control that Fox will probably pump upthis arms race of poor thinking. Until such time MSNBC is in uncharted waters (at least in terms of modern American politics) when it comes to discouragingcritical thinking, considering the perspective of others and being willing to accept that other will disagree with your ideas and that doing so does not makesomeone your enemy. This type of sober and centered thinking is crucial and domestic tranquility can only last so long in its absence.
Essential, I know that Keith Olbermann will sometimes criticize president Obama but his criticism only emerges when he thinks the President is straying awayideological purity. When ever the president makes small concession to Republicans or even moderate Democrats, Olbermann implores him to be a hardliner, tocrush all opposition. Meanwhile, he will still use his show to support the agenda which he wants the president to pursue. Whether President Obama pursues thehard left policies that Olbermann and his viewer prefer or President Obama takes softer line, he can operate in an environment where one of the three majorcable news outlets portrays every conservative, moderate and libertarian as a racists, as evil, as maliciously greedy, as traitors, as violent maniacs or somecombination of thereof.
You may be right that none of the most prominent 10 or 20 people on the left have actually said that all who disagree are racists. However, it has been impliedthat all those or most of those, whose policy views differ from Obama's, (except of course for those who want him to be even further to the left) areracists and that many are just chomping at the bit to kill someone or commit some other act of terrorism. I could handle MSNBC going after that 20% of voterswho still supported President Bush in 2008, the radical right wingers.
What has me considering MSNBC so dangerous is that everyday they say that those who want smaller government,those who disagree with the president's policies on their merits, those who truly do not care about the president's race are all, in fact racists, andthat "socialism" is some secret code word and is the new "n word." That is not only untrue but dangerous. It is only a matter of time untilsome politician or pundit, who is not racist and who simply is concerned with the rapid growth of government (and yes going on hard measures of GDP being takeninto government control and by the size of the pending budgetary shortfalls, it is much worse than the actions of any previous administration since the end ofWorld War II) is going to be attacked and possibly killed by an MSNBC devotee.
As someone who has followed politics for a long while now, more than a decade now, I did see Fox News use fear to promote the GOP agenda, I did seem them flashthe terrorism color bar across the screen and it was disgusting. What Fox News did not do though, is give its viewers the impression that people on the farleft (the direct adversaries of President Bush) were sub humans. On some, not all but some MSNBC programs, they never have conservatives (or moderates orlibertarians) on the show. This makes sense from their point of view because simply being conservative is to be guilty of being wrong and second sub humans,the reasoning goes, cannot defend themselves as dog or an ape accused of harming a human cannot speak in court. At best conservative will be tried in absentiain the court of Olbermann and what ever, always-in-ideological-lock-step, guest is on the that segment and that guest is always doing this in a devil'sadvocate sort of way.
Another thing that Fox did not do was persistently imply that any one with views to the left of President Bush should be considered potential assassins orterrorists. They said some pretty bad things and accused anti war protestors of giving aid and comfort to the enemy but they did not reach the consensus thatthose who disagree are the enemy. MSNBC has taken the notion of dissenters to be violent traitors to another level. Thanks to Nancy Pelosi's"heartfelt" recounting of the days before Harvey Milk's murder, MSNBC's most hard- line hosts are unceasingly using this to say that if youare against us you probably are a terrorist. It makes Bush's ultimatum "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists" seem downrightnuanced and diplomatic when compared to "you are with us or you are a terrorist."
So in short, MSNBC during this first year or so of the Obama Presidency has been worse than was Fox News during the Bush years. Today's MSNBC paints withthe broadest of brushes; Fox targeted the far left while MSNBC goes after the far right, moderate Republicans, Centrist Republicans, Centrists Democrats,Conservative Democrats and even libertarians like me. The condemnation given by MSNBC is even more than what Fox gave. Again, there has been focused anddisciplined effort to say that those who were against the stimulus "want" the economy to "fail." Those who are concerned about ballooningbudgets are racists. Those who point out how costly the public option will be are apparently ready to kill. Those who disagree with our economic policy beingdetermined primarily by a few powerful labor unions are thirsting for blood. Discerning mind of all political stripes should be able to see through this butMSNBC is very popular amongst those who are not yet discerning, college freshman and other political neophytes.
While Fox is the station for the ignorant, MSNBC is the channel for the sophomoric, those who have a little bit of real information under their belts and asresult they are even less likely than the ignorant to consider other points of view and to ever revise point of view after they have adopted it. Furthermore,the one possessing some but far from a lot of information about the state of the world and about how politics works is the most likely to do something radicaland violent. The sophomoric ones are usually the ones who believe that their cause is the most righteous and that cause's leaders are infallible.
It is sad that this discussion even has to happen but it has been necessitated by a public with an appetite for disrespect of different points of views, nationthat views compromise as weakness and body politic that considers a periodic review of one's own views as a sin. This has been fed and the two biggestculprits amongst the media are MSNBC and Fox News. While MSNBC is the worst at the moment, I am not excusing Fox because in many ways Fox laid out a blueprintwhich MSNBC copied and then built upon and made more sophisticated. I have no doubts that when Government returns to GOP control that Fox will probably pump upthis arms race of poor thinking. Until such time MSNBC is in uncharted waters (at least in terms of modern American politics) when it comes to discouragingcritical thinking, considering the perspective of others and being willing to accept that other will disagree with your ideas and that doing so does not makesomeone your enemy. This type of sober and centered thinking is crucial and domestic tranquility can only last so long in its absence.
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newsflash.
everybody lies.
everybody lies.
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Darn those Jews
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rex - i agree with most of what you said/clarified in your last post. msnbc, no longer the "opposition" network, now has a definite tacticaladvantage as far as presenting their ideology, and they can do a lot of harm. fox has always used fear mongering tactics, which so far have been highlyeffective, but any blanket dismissal of disagreement or dissention with the current state of affairs is more harmful at this point in time.
i think the worst part of this is as both networks try to increase market share and viewership, the most radical views (left and right) are the ones gettingthe lions share of the coverage. with so little coverage devoted to honest criticism and debate of the issues, the idea of fair compromise seems more and moreimpossible. there are hardly any black and white issues to debate, and yet sides have already been chosen and it seems the general population is getting quiteentrenched on opposite sides, with any reasonable ideas and arguments getting caught in the crossfire.
btw, am i the only one who found the narrator of the video the op posted painful to watch? it seemed like he was a half second away from literally bitingsomeone's head off. i've seen one other video of him and it was the same deal. unfortunately, people tend to listen more to those who argue with morehotheaded dispositions.
i think the worst part of this is as both networks try to increase market share and viewership, the most radical views (left and right) are the ones gettingthe lions share of the coverage. with so little coverage devoted to honest criticism and debate of the issues, the idea of fair compromise seems more and moreimpossible. there are hardly any black and white issues to debate, and yet sides have already been chosen and it seems the general population is getting quiteentrenched on opposite sides, with any reasonable ideas and arguments getting caught in the crossfire.
btw, am i the only one who found the narrator of the video the op posted painful to watch? it seemed like he was a half second away from literally bitingsomeone's head off. i've seen one other video of him and it was the same deal. unfortunately, people tend to listen more to those who argue with morehotheaded dispositions.
