[::NBA FINALS THREAD: HEAT DEFEAT SPURS 4-3. CONGRATS LEBRON & MIAMI. EARNED, NOT GIVEN::]

[acbboyz84]

I dont think kobe knew he was being carried..it irked him that public perception was that he needed shaq. In actuality, both parties were to blame and if im lal management and 1 had to go..u make that move 1001 times out of 1000. U can just tell he wanted to be the man so he can be on pace for individual and team greatness. Hence the emotional release after the 09 chip.

You mean Kobe, the guy who was playing in the game himself doesn't know what he did?

West Conference playoffs (where Lakers faced their BY FAR the toughest competition): Multiple back to back 40 points game.

Kobe (11g): 31.6 PTS (.577 TS%), 7.0 REB, 6.2 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.5 BLK, 3.0 TOV
Shaq (11g): 29.3 PTS (.558 TS%), 15.3 REB, 2.5 AST, 0.5 STL, 1.9 BLK, 3.4 TOV

The NBA finals where Lakers faced a pathetic team that would be eliminated in first round of West conference playoffs:

Kobe ( 5g): 24.6 PTS (.501 TS%), 7.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.4 BLK, 3.6 TOV
Shaq ( 5g): 33.0 PTS (.575 TS%), 15.8 REB, 4.8 AST, 0.4 STL, 3.4 BLK, 4.0 TOV

Yes, Shaq DOMINATED the Finals against non-existent front court of 76'ers, and Kobe took a step back letting Shaq dominate them.

They give the Finals MVP award based on contribution in the Finals only, not throughout the playoffs, where Kobe was the obvious MVP.


now go ahead and tell me that Shaq didn't need Kobe and Kobe didn't need Shaq. They were equal easily.

 

[mertonhanks]

I dont think kobe knew he was being carried..it irked him that public perception was that he needed shaq. In actuality, both parties were to blame and if im lal management and 1 had to go..u make that move 1001 times out of 1000. U can just tell he wanted to be the man so he can be on pace for individual and team greatness. Hence the emotional release after the 09 chip.

Yes, Shaq DOMINATED the Finals against non-existent front court of 76'ers, and Kobe took a step back letting Shaq dominate them.

Maybe Kobe should've "took a step back" and let Shaq dominate the Pistons in 2004. You know, since Kobe was so content just making it to the finals only to" let Shaq dominate"

 

[cedric ceballos]

Maybe Kobe should've "took a step back" and let Shaq dominate the Pistons in 2004. You know, since Kobe was so content just making it to the finals only to" let Shaq dominate"

its a middle ground between the 2 sides.

02-03 shaq missed a good chunk of the season early by delaying a surgery because "he got hurt on company time so it was ok to miss games on company time"  kobe carried more of the load then given credit for that season and 03-04.    also shaq constantly coming into camp out of shape is overlooked as well.    2004 shaq wasn't 2002 shaq, and ben wallace who was an elite defender at the time was a much tougher challenge then jason collins and todd mccollough from 2002.

its a given, 2000-02 shaq was the number 1 guy, despite the numbers kobe put up in 01 and 02. there's no disputing it.   however by 2004, it was a different shaq and a kobe still improving, and shaq wasn't willing to make the transition and accept that the way kareem did when the lakers made magic the main guy in the mid 80's.  

it took shaq getting traded to miami to take an offseason seriously conditioning wise and that was out of spite and trying to prove a point.   he finished 2nd in mvp voting in 04-05.   had he approached the 02 and 03 offseasons with the same motivation, perhaps some of the issues don't surface and shaq is still the main guy without issues come 2004. even with taking 04-05 seriously, he started to lose a step by the 05-06 season still regardless.

end of the day both sides were at fault.   kobe was a douche at the time and alienated his teammates while having the colorado issue going on, but shaq had an ego also and if one player is constantly improving and getting better while the other player is coming into camp out of shape each year and lacking that motivation and feels they should get by off of past acolades a rift is inevitable.     

despite how some want to view it and try to have a revisionist history mindset, both sides were at fault and despite all that, the problems were a win win for both sides.    shaq rediscovered his motivation and won a ring while doing so,  kobe and the lakers got to rebuild on the fly and got a better deal then what philly got for iverson, minnesota got for kg etc. they were back in the finals in 4 years,champions in 5.

had they kept kobe and shaq together they would've slowly declined and eventually moved shaq for less while most likely not winning anymore titles as teams like san antonio and detroit weren't slouches themselves.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Like i said. Look up his number. In the playoff 00-02. The toughest opponent were Kings, Blazer, Spurs. All from 00-03. 02 Kings might be the toughest.

Several star perimeter players had great numbers in the playoffs. Iverson and Carter were exchanging 50 point games. McGrady averaged 34, 31 and 32 points per game in the three first rounds he had with the Magic. Jason Kidd averaged a triple touble some playoff series. But in the end, only one perimeter player had the luxury of playing with Shaquille O'Neal. And as soon as Shaq left, he was reduced to losing just like the rest of these players - 2 x first round exit and 1 x lottery.

 

[mertonhanks]

Maybe Kobe should've "took a step back" and let Shaq dominate the Pistons in 2004. You know, since Kobe was so content just making it to the finals only to" let Shaq dominate"

its a middle ground between the 2 sides.

02-03 shaq missed a good chunk of the season early by delaying a surgery because "he got hurt on company time so it was ok to miss games on company time"  kobe carried more of the load then given credit for that season and 03-04.    also shaq constantly coming into camp out of shape is overlooked as well.    2004 shaq wasn't 2002 shaq, and ben wallace who was an elite defender at the time was a much tougher challenge then jason collins and todd mccollough from 2002.

its a given, 2000-02 shaq was the number 1 guy, despite the numbers kobe put up in 01 and 02. there's no disputing it.   however by 2004, it was a different shaq and a kobe still improving, and shaq wasn't willing to make the transition and accept that the way kareem did when the lakers made magic the main guy in the mid 80's.  

it took shaq getting traded to miami to take an offseason seriously conditioning wise and that was out of spite and trying to prove a point.   he finished 2nd in mvp voting in 04-05.   had he approached the 02 and 03 offseasons with the same motivation, perhaps some of the issues don't surface and shaq is still the main guy without issues come 2004. even with taking 04-05 seriously, he started to lose a step by the 05-06 season still regardless.

end of the day both sides were at fault.   kobe was a douche at the time and alienated his teammates while having the colorado issue going on, but shaq had an ego also and if one player is constantly improving and getting better while the other player is coming into camp out of shape each year and lacking that motivation and feels they should get by off of past acolades a rift is inevitable.     

despite how some want to view it and try to have a revisionist history mindset, both sides were at fault and despite all that, the problems were a win win for both sides.    shaq rediscovered his motivation and won a ring while doing so,  kobe and the lakers got to rebuild on the fly and got a better deal then what philly got for iverson, minnesota got for kg etc. they were back in the finals in 4 years,champions in 5.

had they kept kobe and shaq together they would've slowly declined and eventually moved shaq for less while most likely not winning anymore titles as teams like san antonio and detroit weren't slouches themselves.

No doubt they were both at fault but to say Kobe and Shaq were equal in during the threepeat is hilarious. Theres a reason Kobe felt the need to win that FMVP against the Pistons, shooting his team out of games, he couldnt stand playin second fiddle to Shaq. Big guy was averaging 27 points on 63% shooting in the finals. Wallace wasnt stopping Shaq even if Shaq wasnt the same player as before. Yet he only got 17 shots up a game that series. Beans put up 23 on 38% and 23 shots per game. Was Shaq suppose to shoot just 12 a game and give Kobe 30 shots? Even Phil Jackson puts the onus on Kobe for that series. It wasnt Kobes time yet even with Shaq injury and attitude, not because of their skills at that point but because of Kobe's selfish mentality.

 

[cedric ceballos]

we can agree to disagree all day on that one.      kobe crapped the bed that series no doubt about it, but even if shaq got the ball more often i doubt they win that series.

that was a very flawed, dyfunctional, injury prone laker team, going against a team peaking at the right time in detroit.    aside from game 2 and game 4 where detroit pulled away late, those games were one sided.  even if shaq were to have gotten the ball more often, he woulda put up points against ben wallace but it wouldn't have been 02 shaq and i doubt they win that series even if shaq got more touches.

i gotta look the stats up but if i recall correctly, ben wallace was able to contain shaq in 2005 in the ecf and that was a series where shaq getting the ball wasn't an issue.

hell that team was a .4 miracle away from arguably being bounced in the 2nd round.    that 03-04 laker team is up there with this past seasons team and maybe the 99 team as the most dissapointing laker teams in my years watching the team.

looking back though, what bugs me out is how shaq was cool playing that 2nd option role in miami to a 2nd year player in wade at the time yet he balked at it with the lakers.     egos on both sides, but seeing shaq's track record leaving teams, dissing riley upon getting traded from miami, some of the stuff he said about orlando, etc im willing to bet it was more behind the scenes stuff that falls on shaq that we don't about.

 

[mertonhanks]

IMO when Kobe told on Shaq, that was the end. Aint no way Shaq, with his ego, about to get called out like that and then pass the torch to Kobe. Cant nobody even play and respect someone that would do that to a teammate. All the other BS that happened after just added to the drama. Shaq was still the guy his first season in Miami, shouldve won that MVP IMO. No doubt he passed the torch to Wade tho that second season.

 

[uncharteddrake]

Its supposed to be all of LeBron's buckets from game 7



couldn't embed the larger version
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/image...s/000/931/850/eS0SsaP_original.gif?1372027450

When did bron shoot with his left hand tho?
lol

 

[gllahone84]

What ya'll in here arguing about now?

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

we can agree to disagree all day on that one.      kobe crapped the bed that series no doubt about it, but even if shaq got the ball more often i doubt they win that series.

that was a very flawed, dyfunctional, injury prone laker team, going against a team peaking at the right time in detroit.    aside from game 2 and game 4 where detroit pulled away late, those games were one sided.  even if shaq were to have gotten the ball more often, he woulda put up points against ben wallace but it wouldn't have been 02 shaq and i doubt they win that series even if shaq got more touches.

i gotta look the stats up but if i recall correctly, ben wallace was able to contain shaq in 2005 in the ecf and that was a series where shaq getting the ball wasn't an issue.

hell that team was a .4 miracle away from arguably being bounced in the 2nd round.    that 03-04 laker team is up there with this past seasons team and maybe the 99 team as the most dissapointing laker teams in my years watching the team.

looking back though, what bugs me out is how shaq was cool playing that 2nd option role in miami to a 2nd year player in wade at the time yet he balked at it with the lakers.     egos on both sides, but seeing shaq's track record leaving teams, dissing riley upon getting traded from miami, some of the stuff he said about orlando, etc im willing to bet it was more behind the scenes stuff that falls on shaq that we don't about.

Thats because Wade had no ego.  Kobe was weird to his team during those times. Nobody wants to be pass the torch to somebody who is already trying to steal it.

And Kobe snitched.

 

[cedric ceballos]

I can't cosign the snitching on kobes part but Shaq was just as at fault as a whole.

That getting hurt on company time so ima miss games on company time crap was a key reason to their slow start in 02-03, that along with coming into camp outta shape every year. Just the fact that it took him getting traded to approach an offseason says alot about shaqs work ethic and I could see where his work ethic and Kobe's work ethic would clash. They could overlook it when Shaq was dominating but Shaq constantly coming into camp overweight and outta shape can be argued as reasons that made his decline come faster.

Regarding the Shaq Kobe thing though, Shaq left Orlando on bad terms, dissed Brian hill, Shaq was all smiles in Miami in 04, dissed pat Riley in 08. Shaq has said some questionable stuff but got a pass through the media because he's more media friendly.

End of the day its good they squashed their beef but Shaq was more at fault as well for the issues then some people would like to believe

 

[licensed to ball]

Just got back from Vegas.
Just wanna say congrats to all Miami fans and LeBron.
He earned that chip. He played how we've always wanted him to play in that game 7 and I have nothing but happiness and respect for him. He doesn't deserve hate after what he did.

It was a great season.
Enjoyed the playoffs with you dudes.
On to the off-season and trash talk about the next upcoming season.

Peace.

 

[knightngale]

Lebron was choking so much from the perimeter that his stans are compelled to make a gif of all the open jumpers that he made. Amazing that he made so many open jumpers or some that were very weakly contested

 

[galaxynexus]

Lebron was choking so much from the perimeter that his stans are compelled to make a gif of all the open jumpers that he made. Amazing that he made so many open jumpers or some that were very weakly contested

How would you guard LeBron then? You realize he carved up OKC, Indiana, Boston, Lakers, Chicago, San Antonio, etc all in the past 2 years?

Also for context please name your favorite player (you can copy paste Kobe Bryant to make it easier).

Why can't Kobe fans appreciate LeBron? It seems like the same Kobe fans who hate the fact that MJ fans won't give Kobe credit are now the ones hating on LeBron.

 

[pepperjackchees]

Lebron was choking so much from the perimeter that his stans are compelled to make a gif of all the open jumpers that he made. Amazing that he made so many open jumpers or some that were very weakly contested

How would you guard LeBron then? You realize he carved up OKC, Indiana, Boston, Lakers, Chicago, San Antonio, etc all in the past 2 years?

Also for context please name your favorite player (you can copy paste Kobe Bryant to make it easier).

Why can't Kobe fans appreciate LeBron? It seems like the same Kobe fans who hate the fact that MJ fans won't give Kobe credit are now the ones hating on LeBron.

Inferiority complex

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

somewhat srs

 

[Trey Bantz]

LeBron really likes to use the phrase, "This is the ultimate" or "It's the ultimate." I've heard him say it at least 10 times now in interviews and press conferences following this last title.

 

[jayfiend]

How would you guard LeBron then? You realize he carved up OKC, Indiana, Boston, Lakers, Chicago, San Antonio, etc all in the past 2 years?

Also for context please name your favorite player (you can copy paste Kobe Bryant to make it easier).

Why can't Kobe fans appreciate LeBron? It seems like the same Kobe fans who hate the fact that MJ fans won't give Kobe credit are now the ones hating on LeBron.

I'm a MJ and Kobe fan and have absolutely no problem with Bron... I appreciate greatness.

As fad as how you defend him. Well I think he showed in this series that when his jumper is in he is unstoppable period.

Nobody in the L can stop him without help. So you give him the jumper. You just have to live with it if he makes it. Because giving him dunks a night would just make it worse.

 

[galaxynexus]

I'm a MJ and Kobe fan and have absolutely no problem with Bron... I appreciate greatness.

As fad as how you defend him. Well I think he showed in this series that when his jumper is in he is unstoppable period.

Nobody in the L can stop him without help. So you give him the jumper. You just have to live with it if he makes it. Because giving him dunks a night would just make it worse.

Props. A logical viewpoint without any hate, if Niketalk had more responses like this instead of "KOBE SUCKS LEBRON 4EVER" or vice versa, this place would be a much more pleasant place to discuss sports. The bad part is, you have to sift through the garbage & hate (OhMyGosher & ACB, etc) to actually see some insightful knowledge & opinions being shared.

 

[ssjjfar]

Lebron was choking so much from the perimeter that his stans are compelled to make a gif of all the open jumpers that he made. Amazing that he made so many open jumpers or some that were very weakly contested

You do realize that the entire series San Antonio was just giving him the jump shots, so in game 7 they continued to give it to him and he just took advatage of it making those wide-open/weakly contested shots, and your trying to dismiss it? Okay guy.

Danny Green was making wide open 3's for days, nothing I could say about that those games other than fml. He made the shots, it doesn't matter if it was wide open or not. Thank god for us he was playing a best of 5 series and was a ghost in game 6 & 7.

 

[CP1708]

View media item 465975

Holy **** this is awesome.

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

You mean Kobe, the guy who was playing in the game himself doesn't know what he did?

West Conference playoffs (where Lakers faced their BY FAR the toughest competition): Multiple back to back 40 points game.

Kobe (11g): 31.6 PTS (.577 TS%), 7.0 REB, 6.2 AST, 1.6 STL, 0.5 BLK, 3.0 TOV
Shaq (11g): 29.3 PTS (.558 TS%), 15.3 REB, 2.5 AST, 0.5 STL, 1.9 BLK, 3.4 TOV

The NBA finals where Lakers faced a pathetic team that would be eliminated in first round of West conference playoffs:

Kobe ( 5g): 24.6 PTS (.501 TS%), 7.8 REB, 5.8 AST, 1.4 STL, 1.4 BLK, 3.6 TOV
Shaq ( 5g): 33.0 PTS (.575 TS%), 15.8 REB, 4.8 AST, 0.4 STL, 3.4 BLK, 4.0 TOV

Yes, Shaq DOMINATED the Finals against non-existent front court of 76'ers, and Kobe took a step back letting Shaq dominate them.

They give the Finals MVP award based on contribution in the Finals only, not throughout the playoffs, where Kobe was the obvious MVP.


now go ahead and tell me that Shaq didn't need Kobe and Kobe didn't need Shaq. They were equal easily.

LOL Shaq only needed another 20ppg scorer. Insert Mcgrady, Vince, Ray, or AI and you still have a 3 peat bro.

 

[acbboyz84]

Like vc ai or tmac was going to play defense, hit clutch shot and give you the best chance to win on both end lol.

In 2000-2003 kobe was doing more on both end than any of the guy you mentioned. Why play with lesser player when you could have kobe?

If you're going to keep discredit kobe then don't cry when people discredit lebron.

 

[pepperjackchees]

Holy **** this is awesome.

Hopefully, this is a sign that LeBron will be able to adapt when he'll lose his athleticism at some point in the future.

 

[dirtybuhbuhnew]

Like vc ai or tmac was going to play defense, hit clutch shot and give you the best chance to win on both end lol.

In 2000-2003 kobe was doing more on both end than any of the guy you mentioned. Why play with lesser player when you could have kobe?

If you're going to keep discredit kobe then don't cry when people discredit lebron.

Nope Tracy played defense and was clutch.  Vince was clutch and Ai was clutch. AND YOU ACT AS IF KOBE WAS GUARDING SUPREME SCORERS DURING THAT TIME. He BARELY GUARDED AI, REGGIE OR JALEN OR LOL WAIT FOR IT......KERRY KITTLES LOL.

Come on now bro be real.

 

[mister friendly]

Yes, Shaq DOMINATED the Finals against non-existent front court of 76'ers, and Kobe took a step back letting Shaq dominate them.


They give the Finals MVP award based on contribution in the Finals only, not throughout the playoffs, where Kobe was the obvious MVP.



now go ahead and tell me that Shaq didn't need Kobe and Kobe didn't need Shaq. They were equal easily.

LOL Shaq only needed another 20ppg scorer. Insert Mcgrady, Vince, Ray, or AI and you still have a 3 peat bro.

You mean like when he had 20 PPG scorer and 1st team All-NBA Penny and didn't win anything?

I could just as easily say give Kobe another All-NBA caliber big and the Lakers threepeat too