New York Yankees Official Thread - vs Stros, 23-13

[dblplay1212]

This sounds like someone that thinks he's gone.

 

[アミーゴ]

Or you can say it was 19 games and that's a really small sample size. Going to need more than that. That's not enough to play him over a healthy DJ.

Again - his xBA was pretty good I believe

 

[essential1]

I know nobody cares, but I wanted to take a dive into some stats, and naturally started with Catcher.

Gary was a surprisingly patient at the plate.

I did 200 PA threshold with Catchers (it was 47):
2nd lowest 1st pitch strikes
17th best of 47 in not swinging at pitches outside the zone
8th best BB%
Almost a 10% drop in K% from 2020 to 2021
His called strike % was 2nd best of his career, and swinging strike was best of his career.
1 of 10 Catchers with an OBP that was 100 points higher than their BA. That is an indication of someone who is taking pitches and walking.

I don't have a ton of issue with him this year, it wasn't a great year, but I don't think it was a terrible one either. By OPS+ he was the 3rd best hitter for the Yankees. Which can be viewed as a positive or negative about him and the team.

I think managing has some to do with it. Whether you like him or hate him, since Boone has been here, he's jerked Gary around. He gets it enough from fans and media, Boone doesn't do him any favors. And some of that goes onto Gary about not being able to bounce back or not let it get to him, but it's a really ****ty position to be in. I think the personal catcher thing needs to be done with. If Cole can't pitch to Gary, it's more worrying about Cole than it is Gary.

Gary shows flashes of how good he can be, and then it doesn't stick. Again, some of that is on Gary for not staying with what is working, but I'm curious if the coaching staff just doesn't notice these small things
For example, Gary in June was .289/.372/.663 15XBH 19RBIs 11BB 25Ks. Then just was rough from there out.

Gary is not far off what he could be. It's having that crazy hot month, but in the other months being able to not fall below the mean, which is what happened in 2018 and 2021, had an insane month or two and then a few falling below the mean.
2016, 2017, 2019 are years where you how good Gary is and can be. Because there is those crazy hot months, months where he holds it steady, and limits the damage of slumps and gets back on track.

 

[essential1]

Or you can say it was 19 games and that's a really small sample size. Going to need more than that. That's not enough to play him over a healthy DJ.

Play the 25 year old over the 33 year old. Especially when DJ can literally play 3 positions, and still play every day. DJ has better value in versatility than he does in being locked in one spot, and forcing an entire infield around him. He's good, but he isn't that good.

Also DJ had a 150 game sample size of being just as bad as Gleyber this year. What's to say DJ got his contract, and this is who he is now, in the same way that this is who Gleyber is now.

 

[Coupé It]

There is no way Voit starts next year, that’s ridiculous essential. He may not even be back, we’ll probably trade him.

 

[Coupé It]

Man wants a job in the Bronx badddddd

 

[essential1]

There is no way Voit starts next year, that’s ridiculous essential. He may not even be back, we’ll probably trade him.

Likely outcome.

My argument is under no circumstance should DJ be starting at 2B over Gleyber. Or starting at 3B over Gio.

If he’s starting 1B over Voit, that’s fine. Put Voit at DH. Stanton in LF.

(I really do not want Joey Gallo back). Gallo has got the most value of any potential trade chip on offense. Of guys they could or should consider trading.

Still hold the point that DJ’s value is bigger as a guy who fills in at all the positions to get 130-140 games.

 

[essential1]

Man wants a job in the Bronx badddddd

I’ll take it.

 

[Coupé It]

Likely outcome.

My argument is under no circumstance should DJ be starting at 2B over Gleyber. Or starting at 3B over Gio.

If he’s starting 1B over Voit, that’s fine. Put Voit at DH. Stanton in LF.

(I really do not want Joey Gallo back). Gallo has got the most value of any potential trade chip on offense.

Still hold the point that DJ’s value is bigger as a guy who fills in at all the positions to get 130-140 games.

I agree that DJ shouldn’t be at 2B. No way, keep Gleyber.

But DJ will probably just go to 1B tho. So Voit is gone either way.

I think we’ve seen the last of Voit, maybe that’s just me tho.

 

[essential1]

I agree that DJ shouldn’t be at 2B. Keep Gleyber.

But DJ will probably just go to 1B tho. So Voit goes either way.

Comes down to who do you value more. Gallo or Voit. I know they’ll choose Gallo. But I think with what you’d get in trade return plus the ability to move guys around throughout the year, I’d choose Voit.

If you keep Gallo, Stanton is permanent DH. And while I think he’s gonna play DH more than the field regardless of the situation, Stanton should get time in the field.

Also, I don’t think I can watch Gallo all year spoil runners on.

 

[Coupé It]

Comes down to who do you value more. Gallo or Voit. I know they’ll choose Gallo. But I think with what you’d get in trade return plus the ability to move guys around throughout the year, I’d choose Voit.

If you keep Gallo, Stanton is permanent DH. And while I think he’s gonna play DH more than the field regardless of the situation, Stanton should get time in the field.

Also, I don’t think I can watch Gallo all year spoil runners on.

Ughhh - There are so many issues I can’t even drink straight. I’m just going to bed. Luckily no work until 10am. But I know I’ll still be pissed in the morning.

 

[essential1]

Here’s what is set in stone, or at least what makes the most sense

Batting Order:
2- DJ LeMahieu
3-Judge
4-Stanton
5- Gleyber

Build out from there on offense.

Starting Pitching
You know you need a # 2 starter and maybe a #3 if there’s no confidence in Severino and German.

 

[Hahahaha]

This game should have been at home, ****in choke job. Too many terrible losses this season and that final series was horrible.

I don’t want to see anything bad about 27. He showed up in back to back post seasons and was huge for us the last two months.

I still can’t believe those two hits earlier didn’t leave the park. I think if he gets that first one to set the tone, we looking at a different game. ****in shame.

 

[yankeesking92]

Hopefully Boone is out, never liked him at all. Question then turns to who would the team hire to replace him.

 

[dblplay1212]

I know nobody cares, but I wanted to take a dive into some stats, and naturally started with Catcher.

Gary was a surprisingly patient at the plate.

I did 200 PA threshold with Catchers (it was 47):
2nd lowest 1st pitch strikes
17th best of 47 in not swinging at pitches outside the zone
8th best BB%
Almost a 10% drop in K% from 2020 to 2021
His called strike % was 2nd best of his career, and swinging strike was best of his career.
1 of 10 Catchers with an OBP that was 100 points higher than their BA. That is an indication of someone who is taking pitches and walking.

I don't have a ton of issue with him this year, it wasn't a great year, but I don't think it was a terrible one either. By OPS+ he was the 3rd best hitter for the Yankees. Which can be viewed as a positive or negative about him and the team.

I think managing has some to do with it. Whether you like him or hate him, since Boone has been here, he's jerked Gary around. He gets it enough from fans and media, Boone doesn't do him any favors. And some of that goes onto Gary about not being able to bounce back or not let it get to him, but it's a really ****ty position to be in. I think the personal catcher thing needs to be done with. If Cole can't pitch to Gary, it's more worrying about Cole than it is Gary.

Gary shows flashes of how good he can be, and then it doesn't stick. Again, some of that is on Gary for not staying with what is working, but I'm curious if the coaching staff just doesn't notice these small things
For example, Gary in June was .289/.372/.663 15XBH 19RBIs 11BB 25Ks. Then just was rough from there out.

Gary is not far off what he could be. It's having that crazy hot month, but in the other months being able to not fall below the mean, which is what happened in 2018 and 2021, had an insane month or two and then a few falling below the mean.
2016, 2017, 2019 are years where you how good Gary is and can be. Because there is those crazy hot months, months where he holds it steady, and limits the damage of slumps and gets back on track.

Man are you related to Gary? Serious question. His agent? The lengths lengths go to make excuses is wild. He seems like a good dude but he's been bad 3 of 4 years. 2019 was an outlier. He's not good and we need to find a better option. If we can't find a better bat, find a better glove. He's bad at both.

 

[dblplay1212]

Likely outcome.

My argument is under no circumstance should DJ be starting at 2B over Gleyber. Or starting at 3B over Gio.

If he’s starting 1B over Voit, that’s fine. Put Voit at DH. Stanton in LF.

(I really do not want Joey Gallo back). Gallo has got the most value of any potential trade chip on offense. Of guys they could or should consider trading.

Still hold the point that DJ’s value is bigger as a guy who fills in at all the positions to get 130-140 games.

He can be a utility guy and still play 150 games. As for Gallo, he's q really good player. I'd prefer to keep him and hope an entire offseason with the organization helps him settle in and get back to his pre-trade play.

 

[dblplay1212]

Here's what I would do.

C - Move on. The juice isn't worth the squeeze, bat isn't worth the glove.

1b - Keep Rizzo, Voit DH

2b - Gleyber

SS - Story

3b - Gio

LF - Stanton

CF - Gallo

RF - Judge

SP - Sign Max and Verlander

**** it let's go be the Evil Empire again.

 

[g-time]

The needs as far as I can see:

SS - absolutely needs to be addressed. I know some of y’all hate to here or don’t want to, but Correa should be the target. Guy is 26, has had a stellar year. Had the highest WAR amongst position players, and highest defensive WAR. He also looks to be a guy who could shift to 3B whenever Vlope (or whichever of our top SS are promoted). Again, the word/rumor here in Houston is that he wants the bright lights of a big market and they treated the last home game as pretty much a goodbye.

CF - Not really sure where to go here. Hicks has a very tradable contract. On the free agent market there’s Marte as the top guy coming off a good year and would give you speed (led the league in stolen bases), but he’s 33. Maybe work a trade for someone like a Byron Buxton? Injury prone but has upside. Need to find someone that can be there until Dominguez is ready.

C? - I think this has to be seriously thought about. I know we’ll probably trade Higgy. It’s just what we do. I think they need to acquire a catcher that is going to actually push Sanchez. Pitchers have had their battery mates for who knows how long. This isn’t anything new. Hell, the Yanks had that with both Jorge and Gerardi. There’s real reason for it. Sanchez is ranked near the bottom in Statcast’s pitch-framing metrics at 55 out of 59. (For comparison, Higgy ranked 13th) As a former catcher, that’s huge if you can’t help your pitcher out with pitches close to the zone. While his defense has slightly improved, he’s still towards the league lead in pass balls. His low average and on base is by no means made up for by his defense.

#2 SP - huge, huge need. Maybe Severino can be that guy next year once he’s stretched out, but you don’t have time to find out. Max is the dream and would love it to happen, but just don’t see it. Would absolutely take a flyer on Verlander though. So I’d go with Verlander, Robbie Ray, Stroman as my options in free agency. I think I may take a flyer on Syndergaard for the back end of the rotation.

I kind of get trading Gallo, but what left handed bat are you replacing him with? I know hicks is still on the roster but if he’s traded or even if he’s not and you trade Gallo, you’re back to being a righty dominant lineup in need of a lefty bat again.

I think it’s time to step away from Boone and his staff. Boone has made plenty of questionable decisions this year that put us in the situation we were in. Thames should definitely be out. Our offense was in the bottom 3rd in offensive production and runs scored. That puts a ton of pressure on the pitching staff to pretty much be perfect. If you can’t spot what’s wrong with your guys and have them make an adjustment, you have to go. Maybe thats because Thames was pretty much all of nothing as a player.

 

[essential1]

Any time I talk about Gary it is always comparing him to Catchers.

Same thing I do for every player, especially catcher. The only place where you can lump multiple positions together for me is OF.

If you compare Gary to the entire set of hitters at every position, it’s not good. But when you compare him to Catchers and what’s available on offense, he’s far better than what’s available, and will be at least for next year. All the peripherals are there, the results are not.

What’s the reason for that? Absolutely Gary deserves blame for it. I think he’s shot confidence wise. But when a guy is patient and walking, and getting good contact on the ball, and has around 40XBH, what is the gap from that to being dangerous.


There’s an underestimation of just how bad Catchers are at hitting. And on the other hand, just how overrated people weigh defense from catchers.

 

[Cashflow]

336 Million for 3 Innings

 

[g-time]

Gary’s defensive stats being towards the bottom of the league is not overrating. Those are his numbers.

 

[essential1]

You’re missing what I’m saying. Unless you’re a generational talent on defense at Catcher (Yadier), the entirety of importance of defense at catcher is vastly overrated.

 

[onewearz]

i can't think of moves yet

only things i can think right now is ... i can't ....

 

[dblplay1212]

Any time I talk about Gary it is always comparing him to Catchers.

Same thing I do for every player, especially catcher. The only place where you can lump multiple positions together for me is OF.

If you compare Gary to the entire set of hitters at every position, it’s not good. But when you compare him to Catchers and what’s available on offense, he’s far better than what’s available, and will be at least for next year. All the peripherals are there, the results are not.

What’s the reason for that? Absolutely Gary deserves blame for it. I think he’s shot confidence wise. But when a guy is patient and walking, and getting good contact on the ball, and has around 40XBH, what is the gap from that to being dangerous.


There’s an underestimation of just how bad Catchers are at hitting. And on the other hand, just how overrated people weigh defense from catchers.

You completely leave off defense. His bat was worth dealing with it in 2016, 2017, and 2019. It's not now. And no, catcher defense isn't overrated. It not only affects balls/strikes from framing and passed balls, but it affects pitcher confidence. If a pitcher trusts his catcher to call a good game, he just shakes yes every pitch and goes about his business. If a pitcher doesn’t, he has to think about pitch sequence too. It's just more to deal with. Not to mention the security of knowing you can throw a slider in the dirt on 0-2 and not worrying about the man on 1b ending up on 2b. There's a reason why most teams go for defense first at catcher. The bat has to be extremely good to deal with bad defense at that position and Gary just isn't that now.

 

[dblplay1212]

You’re missing what I’m saying. Unless you’re a generational talent on defense at Catcher (Yadier), the entirety of importance of defense at catcher is vastly overrated.

MLB teams disagree. There's a reason they default to defense first there.