NIKE Question/Survey

[b1lly hoyle]

Honestly speaking -- Nike still needs to regain (and in many cases... gain) the trust of serious technical runners. A concept store is great. But, ifit's catering to the 360 casual crowd or hopes to offer limited spins on in-line models; I don't see how that advances performance in that category. Ifanything, they need to tackle the Asics and New Balance divisions that are offering superior models and versions, and also need to do a better job of staffingEXPERT runners who run, can understand the world of running and the varying shapes, sizes, and needs of runners and who also can offer humility when a doubterenters the store who perhaps in the past has been loyal to the competition. Nike needs to admit to themselves first that indeed they should be doing betterwith Tech. Running and in offering more personal widths as New Balance so greatly does.

For me...a House Of Hoops-like Running store shouldn't be keen on limited editions, "innovation" such as 360, or other faux-techs like Nike+ thattracks info. too elementary for those training for elite competition.

MenOfOregon -- You know I've always liked your posts&info...if you want more feedback on future stuff you know how to reach me.

CWK/Jack Johnson/Chris Chicago -- Great posts fellas. No matter your opinions, personal bias, or past work detail...I'm feeling what everyone has to offer(though y'all can be a bit testy sometimes...

)





[and that John Slusher guy lookin like the "Dangers of Masterbation" dude...

]

 

[menoforegon]

Originally Posted by chris chicago

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes with our products Mister Jack Johnson and chris chicago. .....Chris chicago's comments seem to be "guesses", according to his words.

Reading is fundamental.

If you truly believed in that statement you wouldn't have posted your irrelevant, illogical, unfounded opinions in this discussion in the first place.Facts are the way to go when it comes to surveys. Good luck with whatever products you decide to purchase in the future.

Points well taken and respected B1LLY. I was wondering when you were gonna chime-in on this haha. But you of all people know how difficult itis to "master our technology", let alone properly and fully staff our stores with "experts in the field of running". That goes with anycompany, ESPECIALLY retail. There will be those that are passionate and dedicated enough to educate the public on things, and there will be others that arestrictly employees. You also know that we are starting to make wider widths available in certain models.

Keep in mind that an all Nike Running Store would be completely different from a "House of Hoops style" concept. Different clientele withdifferent needs. Different "retail landscape". No real "limited edition, exclusive colorway" type of merchandise. Just exclusively,specialized running shoes, apparel and equipment. This type of store would cater to ALL types of runners; from the casual jogger to the high school athlete tothe long-time marathoner. Just think of taking the Running Department out of a NIKETOWN and expanding it to be a more specialized and interactive experiencefor runners/consumers. Remember, these are all "loose ideas and concepts" and nothing is concrete.

I will keep you in mind B1LLY, along with CWK and goosebear10, should I require more data.

 

[chris chicago]

I never posted about my misfortune with a nike product. And the points I preferenced with "i'd guess" were in support of things you or others hadsaid supporting nike.

Let's take a look at your survey question: " how would you, the consumer, feel about the opening of a Nike Running Store concept?"

you are asking for feelings not facts. STILL I gave you a fact based opinion.... 'specialty running stores already exist selling all brands and it'shard to see a nike only store being more desirable from a customer standpoint.'

I'll give you credit kid, at least your trying. And really all teenagers are pretty clueless so you'll probably turn out ok eventually.

 

[rickjames10]

Mister Jack Johnson wrote:
Because they DON'T! Nike running shoes are not on the same level as those of Asics and New Balance, not even Adidas! Back in the day Nike had the best running shoe in the world in the Pegasus, they changed it, then after that, it went downhill. The stuff that makes up Nike Running shoes is mostly junk, and the running community knows this.

Hey, but whatever. I hope that the House of Hoops isn't your template.

Good luck.


I have to agree with this. I've gone to specialty running shops and never have they brought out or recommended a Nike running shoe. Nike seems to betaking baby steps forward in trying to cater to the serious runners but are far from trying to compete with the likes of Brooks, Asics, Sauconys, etc... Thething that gets me about Nike Running is that they're trying to bank on the legacy of Prefontaine and they make it seem like a gimmick. The 360's area joke for a serious runner. Nike seems to care about making a shoe look nice and supplying the latest technology/gadgets with it but fall flat on their facewith the serious runner. If you don't believe me, go to a race and you'll be able to see how Nike shoes are in the minority.

However, if Nike can get on the ball and start making shoes for serious runners and are able to establish themselves with the rest, a Nike running store wouldbe nice. Their apparel is great. It's the shoes that need help.

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

Originally Posted by chris chicago

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes with our products Mister Jack Johnson and chris chicago. .....Chris chicago's comments seem to be "guesses", according to his words.

Reading is fundamental.

If you truly believed in that statement you wouldn't have posted your irrelevant, illogical, unfounded opinions in this discussion in the first place. Facts are the way to go when it comes to surveys. Good luck with whatever products you decide to purchase in the future.

Points well taken and respected B1LLY. I was wondering when you were gonna chime-in on this haha. But you of all people know how difficult it is to "master our technology", let alone properly and fully staff our stores with "experts in the field of running". That goes with any company, ESPECIALLY retail. There will be those that are passionate and dedicated enough to educate the public on things, and there will be others that are strictly employees. You also know that we are starting to make wider widths available in certain models.

Keep in mind that an all Nike Running Store would be completely different from a "House of Hoops style" concept. Different clientele with different needs. Different "retail landscape". No real "limited edition, exclusive colorway" type of merchandise. Just exclusively, specialized running shoes, apparel and equipment. This type of store would cater to ALL types of runners; from the casual jogger to the high school athlete to the long-time marathoner. Just think of taking the Running Department out of a NIKETOWN and expanding it to be a more specialized and interactive experience for runners/consumers. Remember, these are all "loose ideas and concepts" and nothing is concrete.

I will keep you in mind B1LLY, along with CWK and goosebear10, should I require more data.

And people wonder why I love ripping Nike a new one. Same ol' BS, in fresh wrapping paper. The only comments welcomed, are those deemed positiveand in support of Nike. I can approach the head of every other company, not just some sycophant, and then tell them of my concerns about their product, andthey'd appreciate the honesty.

Nike?

"OHH HHHOOOO! WE HAVE THE BEST TECH BLAH HAHAHA! BILL BOWERMAN PRE BAHBAHBAH ZOOM FREE BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!"

Them foo's ain't here now, we are. Your running shoes suck, deal with it, or continue to be the joke that you are.

 

[cwk]

- Phil Knight orginally wanted to name the Cortez the Aztec, I think in correlation with the Olympics in Mexico City. adidas already had naming rights toAztec, so Phil Knight chose Cortez - who defeated the Aztecs.
- NIKE slipped from #1 just once. When Reebok released the Freestyle (the white,flimsy leather high-top aerobic shoe with the strap) at the beginning of theaerobics craze in the 80's. They beat NIKE with ONE SHOE! NIKE could have easily thrown together an aerobic shoe to recover market share, but they weretoo stubborn.
- Trade secrets are closely guarded, but during a conversation with Knight in the early 80's, Adi Dassler let it slip that they considered it good if ashoe sold 100,000 units a year - and that's what NIKE was moving in one week at the time!
- Adi Dassler also said that the Air Max 1 was the first shoe he ever saw that he felt was a worthy competitor to adidas.
- EKINS and other NIKE employees used to have a tradition of getting swoosh tatoos on locations that correalted to their category. (|Runners would get them onthe outside of their thighs so that it would show with each stride.)

[email protected]

 

[chris chicago]

cwk, please don't take this as a cheap shot but your tidbits on the cortez reminded me of that heavens gate thing about 10yrs ago. when all those crazycult goofballs down in sd committed group suicide wearing black cortez... then snl made a parody nike commercial about it. anyway, did that have any effect onthe cortez sales numbers at the time?

 

[goosebear10]

hahahaah chris have u been to the campus in oregon??they do not play with their love for nike hahahahahahahahah even when I worked at niketown there were alotof people that seemed kinda off in terms of their love for the company..most of them with tats of swooshes on em ahahahahaha

as for the thorlo socks I personally think theyre too thick for me for use for basketball or running but I had a couple pairs of the boot socks and I lovedthem when I had to wear boots and was on my feet all day..I dont know what it is theyre high quality socks and last pretty long

 

[cwk]

chrisofchicago-
No offense taken. My wife kids me about Heaven's Gate all the time!

 

[chris chicago]

yeah. I think the men involved with the heavens gate were all neutered too. lol. good times!

goose that tatoo thing is a little extreme. though I have to give credit for nike getting their some employees to buy into it that strongly. if your worker hasa nike tatoo and he wants a big pay raise, he might not leave when you give him a small one because staying saves him the trouble of getting that tat removed.

Sometimes I see fellas cruising around chicago with big nike swooshes on their back windows (mostly pickups and minivans, and mostly beaters) . Often it lookslike they made the swoosh themselves as it's lopsided. Now i can understand an employee buying into the cult of swoosh, but I doubt these guys areemployees. they just think it's cool to have a 5foot wide nike swoosh sticker on their car..... which to me is even more of a head scratcher.

Then again, I've never encountered a nike fan who was as die hard as Sir Pepsi.
http://www.sirpepsi.com/pepsi10.htm

 

[mister jack johnson]

^^^^LMBO!!!!!!

 

[drainer15]

Originally Posted by CWK

- Trade secrets are closely guarded, but during a conversation with Knight in the early 80's, Adi Dassler let it slip that they considered it good if a shoe sold 100,000 units a year - and that's what NIKE was moving in one week at the time!

- Adi Dassler also said that the Air Max 1 was the first shoe he ever saw that he felt was a worthy competitor to adidas.

I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but Adi Dassler died in 1978, so it'd be hard for him to see the AM 1 or talk with PhilKnight in the 80's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adi_Dassler

 

[markyd33psu]

Originally Posted by rickjames10

Mister Jack Johnson wrote:
Because they DON'T! Nike running shoes are not on the same level as those of Asics and New Balance, not even Adidas! Back in the day Nike had the best running shoe in the world in the Pegasus, they changed it, then after that, it went downhill. The stuff that makes up Nike Running shoes is mostly junk, and the running community knows this.

Hey, but whatever. I hope that the House of Hoops isn't your template.

Good luck.

I have to agree with this. I've gone to specialty running shops and never have they brought out or recommended a Nike running shoe. Nike seems to be taking baby steps forward in trying to cater to the serious runners but are far from trying to compete with the likes of Brooks, Asics, Sauconys, etc... The thing that gets me about Nike Running is that they're trying to bank on the legacy of Prefontaine and they make it seem like a gimmick. The 360's are a joke for a serious runner. Nike seems to care about making a shoe look nice and supplying the latest technology/gadgets with it but fall flat on their face with the serious runner. If you don't believe me, go to a race and you'll be able to see how Nike shoes are in the minority.

However, if Nike can get on the ball and start making shoes for serious runners and are able to establish themselves with the rest, a Nike running store would be nice. Their apparel is great. It's the shoes that need help.



As a serious runner, I'll admit that Nike did lose major ground in the running game in the past decade. ASICS in particular caught up and startedmaking a superior technical shoe, but don't think for a second that Nike doesn't make shoes for serious runners any more. It's just a shame thatthey push the 360's and Shox running shoes harder than their Bowerman Series line.

I just bought a pair of Equalon+ 2's a few weeks ago, and they're the best running shoes I've ever had. Air cushioning doesn't fullyencompass their running tech... for instance, the E2's have a Cushlon ST midsole (a new, improved foam over Phylon), de-coupled crash pad (a huge advancein running tech), an upper designed to work around the bones of the foot, and outstanding medial support. Previously, I've worn the Structure Triax10's, which, after visiting a running specialty store and checking out the ASICS 2120, a salesman said, "Check out Nike's AST 10... they'rejust as good as that shoe." And those shoes held up great for me for 400+ miles. And I've worn these shoes because I overpronate... if I wasneutral, I'd gladly wear a pair of Vomero's instead of ASICS' Nimbus or the Peg's instead of ASICS' Cumulus.
I'm hoping that thecontinued quality that they've been putting out lately (some incredible running shoes are coming out in the spring) as well as the Nike+ product campaignwill help change the public opinion that Nike's running shoes are "fashion over function". While this may be the case with the 360's andother non-technical shoes like that, the Bowerman Series line is really top-notch.
MenOfOregon... to answer your question, I'd love a Nike specialty running store. But then again, I'm a runner. I can see why this wouldn'tappeal to many of the people in this forum... nothing against them, but it's a sport that many people just don't "get". It wouldn't havethe consumer appeal of basketball, and nobody would flock there to see Paula Radcliffe's or Meb Keflezghi's PE's, but the running community is asmall and dedicated one, and I see two main benefits of a Nike running shop: it could spread the history of Nike's involvement in the sport, and alsodemonstrate Nike's commitment to making serious (i.e. Bowerman Series) running shoes for all kinds of runners.

 

[menoforegon]

I'm glad to see that someone had the decency to take a look at the 'Bowerman Series' instead of complaining right away about "consistency andquality issues". It certainly pays to do your research first before criticizing. If you feel it's not for you, then at least it's acredible statement to yourself and others because you've done the necessary research/work.

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

I'm glad to see that someone had the decency to take a look at the 'Bowerman Series' instead of complaining right away about "consistency and quality issues". It certainly pays to do your research first before criticizing. If you feel it's not for you, then at least it's a credible statement to yourself and others because you've done the necessary research/work.

Are you suggesting that the running Nike 360 and Shox series didn't have consistency and quality issues? It wouldn't surprise me thatyou'd make a irrelevant statement in your reply.

 

[menoforegon]

Mister Jack, in case you didn't know, EVERYTHING that is mass produced in this world will have some "consistency and quality issues". Saying thatyour 360's "leaked Air" is NOT a quality issue. That is a self-inflicted defect because you either popped it yourself or the shoe is at least adecade old. Not the case on the latter part, I'm sure. We have been producing shoes with "Air" in them since the `70's and I have yet to seepeople returning them in massive numbers because the "Air leaked" on its own. You haven't even been specific about your issues with SHOX sothere's no telling if you have ANY credibility with that. Nike needs more data/facts then "hey yo, my R4's or SHOX Monsters suck".

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

Mister Jack, in case you didn't know, EVERYTHING that is mass produced in this world will have some "consistency and quality issues". Saying that your 360's "leaked Air" is NOT a quality issue. That is a self-inflicted defect because you either popped it yourself or the shoe is at least a decade old. Not the case on the latter part, I'm sure. We have been producing shoes with "Air" in them since the `70's and I have yet to see people returning them in massive numbers because the "Air leaked" on its own. You haven't even been specific about your issues with SHOX so there's no telling if you have ANY credibility with that. Nike needs more data/facts then "hey yo, my R4's or SHOX Monsters suck".

Again, you assume that you are talking to someone who is NOT informed ...

...FOOTLOCKER RTVed several shipments of the 360's due to quality concerns, air leakage, fact or fiction?

I'll tell you what, go to your superior before you answer, just so you don't have any self inflicted guilt.

 

[markyd33psu]

Okay... no offense here, but this "Question/Survey" thread has turned into nothing more than a personal feud. I'm sure you'd get a lot moreworthwhile feedback from people if you spent more time devoting your posts to talking about Nike's serious running shoes and less time arguing with thepeople who disagree with you.

If people aren't runners... fine. If they can't distinguish between a serious running shoe and a pair of Shox... okay, whatever. But just let it go,or hit up a forum (like the Runner's World shoe forum or the Nike+ forum) where people actually care about technical running shoes (NT's great and all,but it's not a running community).

 

[menoforegon]

You are definitely an "entertaining" consumer Mister Jack haha. You've managed to "wake everyone up" with your posts. adidas couldreally use an employee as passionate and dedicated as yourself, if they don't already "have you". I hope you don't waste your "gift ofgab" on the street corner and use it for positive things like working for the shoe industry. Again, adidas would be really lucky to have you "onboard". Good luck. And remember.........IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING

 

[mister jack johnson]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon

You are definitely an "entertaining" consumer Mister Jack haha. You've managed to "wake everyone up" with your posts. adidas could really use an employee as passionate and dedicated as yourself, if they don't already "have you". I hope you don't waste your "gift of gab" on the street corner and use it for positive things like working for the shoe industry. Again, adidas would be really lucky to have you "on board". Good luck. And remember.........IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING

No answer to that one, 'eh?

But that assumption and crack about the "street corner", is quite telling. I am sure that if Nike could find a way to put a swoosh on it, they'dcall it a "performance corner", much in that vaudvillian and bigoted sense..

I'd expect nothing less.

 

[menoforegon]

Originally Posted by Mister Jack Johnson

No answer to that one, 'eh?


There is no "answer" to you sir. Good luck with your future endeavors.

 

[cwk]

drainer15-

I stand corrected. I was recalling those stories from memory from SWOOSH and Just Do It, so I may have had the time period wrong. It was probably the midto late 70's when NIKE was overtaking adidas. It may have been the Tailwind that Adi Dassler commented on as well. Sorry for the misrepresentation.

 

[User 15002]

Originally Posted by MenofOregon


According to the many that have posted in that topic; According to the many calling and asking about phone orders; According to the many across the country trying to get to this store or asking others to "pick-up" things from this store; According to the "buzz" that it's generating about the "Exclusives" only found there, and soon to be releasing.

I don't know, but that sounds pretty "successful" to me.

I am certainly a fan of NIKE products. However, I'm not sold on the "success" of a store being based on hype from exclusives. Exclusivesare gimmicks and shouldn't be the foundation of a store. Dependency on exclusives is tantamount to admission of a weak, general, mainstream product line. I feel NIKE products have been strong enough in the past to support a sport-specific store model. Is that the case now? I'm not sure. The Kobe linewas/is damaged from his personality/court case/Lakers' lack of success.(Although I think the shoes are on the right track-performance based.) His clothingline looks awesome, however with his name attached... Lebron can move shoes. Is the innovation there though? AZG I, ZL II were like wow!, but after thatthey could be marketed as "Tanks for your feet". I'm not discrediting the designers hard work, but they look like cleats should be attached tothe sole. And the colors of the clothing line are better suited for bath towels than something the average sports-inclined consumer would wear in public. Exclusives are a crutch, training wheels, smokescreen. The 'buzz' is about the exclusives, not the store, not HOH.
As far as a runningshoe/clothing-only store, it would work well for NIKE as the product line is there. However it will not succeed unless as mentioned earlier there are trulyknowledgeable folks on staff. I like the idea.

 

[cwk]

I think MenofOregon is describing a product and technology driven shop featuring primarily inline, general release product.

 

[menoforegon]

Originally Posted by CWK

I think MenofOregon is describing a product and technology driven shop featuring primarily inline, general release product.

Yes. A "specialty store" dedicated to runners by runners. Strictly for the running community to interact with each other personally andthrough technology and products, and still be able to cater to all types of runners in all walks of life. It still has plenty of "kinks" to smoothout IF it were to become a reality.