Now that bryant has been quoted and recorded speaking on his level of play vs MJ's...

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by air force baller

Originally Posted by KenJi714

Tell me if MJ ever beat a dynasty team in his 90s era

Houston don't count as dynasty team

Kobe > MJ

orlando magic? Bad Boy Pistons? Rockets, Lakers 91,  do those count?

  

I'll say this though in 1998 Kobe and Shaq beat the Bulls decisively during the regular season., same year Jordan won his 6th and final ring against the Jazz. But yeah in his prime Jordan went against dynasties that would make the 2000s "dynasties" look like child's play. The Bad Boy Pistons alone > 2010 Celtics. The Pacers, 76ers, Nets and Magic were not dynasties. The only other dynasty the Lakers faced in the 2000s were the Spurs during Western Conference play which yes, we son those kids on a regular basis (only beat us ONCE in the past decade during the playoffs, haha suck it Spurs fans).

In fact you can argue that Kobe and Lakers have done poorly against "dynasty" type teams. We lost to the Pistons when they were absolutely stacked, the Celtics beat us in our first Finals meeting during the 2000s, we lost to the Spurs in 99 when they were in their prime with the Admiral and young Tim Duncan, lost to the Jazz in 1998 (Stock and Mailman), and we lost twice to the Suns when they were close to being dynasty-esque during the 2000s.

So yeah, if you really look at it, Jordan smashed on the Spurs when they had Admiral (during regular season play, never met in the Finals FYI Kenji cuz you sound like you're about 5 or 6), smashed on Stockton and Malone (and those 2 teams are both teams that smashed on my Lakers) and would've probably smashed on any contemporary "dynasty" including the Celtics. 

Jordan and the 90's Bulls > the Kobe and the Lakers. Prime for prime, I believe Jordan and Scottie Pip would've handled Kobe and Shaq. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

I love how DC went ghost way when the thread was new. Pathetic.

Huh?

 

[Air273]

when he wins 6 finals MVPs then you can say its close.......really you can make the case that TD has been a more valuable player than kobe......has TD played with a hall of fame player? not counting david robinson since his prime ended when his back went out......look at the talent around TD when he won his championship vs. the nets not one player was near the level of a Gasol.

look at wade he won a championship with a past his prime shaq, kobe had the best center in the league by far and playing at an all time great level winning finals MVPs

the year the lakers lost to the pistions in the finals you put jordan at the same age as kobe there is no way they lose that series, NO WAY!.....dudes kobe got out played by richard hamilton! explain that to me! 

 

[aztec06jr]

Air273 wrote:

---

when he wins 6 finals MVPs then you can say its close.......really you can make the case that TD has been a more valuable player than kobe......has TD played with a hall of fame player? not counting david robinson since his prime ended when his back went out......look at the talent around TD when he won his championship vs. the nets not one player was near the level of a Gasol.

look at wade he won a championship with a past his prime shaq, kobe had the best center in the league by far and playing at an all time great level winning finals MVPs

the year the lakers lost to the pistions in the finals you put jordan at the same age as kobe there is no way they lose that series, NO WAY!.....dudes kobe got out played by richard hamilton! explain that to me! 

Kobe stans can play this game too:



Why did the Bulls barely miss a beat after MJ retired? Hell, their defense actually improved 

.




Why couldn't MJ win without Scottie? 

If MJ was so great, why did he only win 6? Jordan played in the watered down expansion era and only won 6. Why did he even retire? He's seen as the player with the undisputed killer instinct yet he retired from the game. Barry Sanders gets knocked for it but why not MJ ?




Look at any top player list by any reputable person and you'll see Pippen there. Rodman shouldn't be too far either. 2 HOF teammates.




Phil Jackson has went on record and said that Kobe/MJ are eerily similar. Steve Kerr has gone on record to say Kobe is a better shooter. Has MJ ever gone against defenders as effective as Prince/Bown/Battier/Artest/Bell? 




2008 - "the Jordan-Bryant comparisons do not bother Jordan as much as they bother others: "Frankly, Jordan doesn't see what all the big fuss is about. After all, human behavior is mimetic. That's what humans do. They copy and ape another." Jordan acknowledged that Bryant has patterned aspects of his game after Jordan's but does not see this as a bad thing at all: "But how many people lighted the path for me? That's the evoluation of basketball. There's no way I could have played the way I played if I didn't watch David Thompson and guys prior to me. There's no way Kobe could have played the way he's played without watching me play. So, you know, that's the evolution of basketball. You cannot change that."




"Winter has repeatedly emphasized that Scottie Pippen's role in the success of the Bulls cannot be overestimated; on the flip side, Winter and West both criticized the lack of mental toughness of Bryant's current supporting cast, a weakness that became glaringly apparent during the 2008 NBA Finals. "The Lakers just are not mentally tough," West said point blank, while Winter agreed and added, "We had some tough guys in Chicago, guys like John Paxson and Steve Kerr who could hit those open shots."

In a sidebar piece, Lazenby pointed out that several years ago the Lakers coaching staff--which of course contained several people who also coached Jordan in Chicago--"concluded Bryant and Jordan were much alike, almost eerie, in fact, when it came to the alpha male qualities of their competitive natures. Kobe and Michael were ruthless when it came to winning, everyone agreed. And their skills were similar. Except Michael's hands were larger. The major difference between the two came with college experience. Jordan had played in a basketball system for Dean Smith at North Carolina, thus he was better prepared to play within a team concept."



In a statement that may surprise a lot of people, Winter told Lazenby that he doubted that Jordan would have been a good fit playing alongside Shaquille O'Neal. It will probably surprise Bryant's critics even more to learn that Winter said that his critical examination of game tape shows that Bryant's shot selection is quite good: "Actually, for the most part, he's not forcing up a lot of bad shots. When he gets hot, he does take shots that would be questionable for other players. But a lot of the shots he's taken go in." After all, while some aspects of shot selection are universal--running the shot clock down at the end of the quarter to get the last shot and deny the other team a scoring opportunity--other aspects of shot selection depend on the skill set of the player who is taking the shot (and the skill sets of the players who he would be passing to if he did not shoot).

Winter concluded, "I tend to think how very much they're alike. They both display tremendous reaction, quickness and jumping ability. Both have a good shooting touch. Some people say Kobe is a better shooter but Michael really developed as a shooter as he went along. I don't know if Kobe is a better shooter than Michael was at his best."




2011




"Earlier today on his ESPN Radio show, Colin Cowherd was having the requisite “Where does Kobe Bryant fit in among the greatest NBA players

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Takeover > Ether

 

[vsano]

here we go again with the watered down era debate.. so the 1992 dream team is composed of watered down players lol

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by Vsano

here we go again with the watered down era debate.. so the 1992 dream team is composed of watered down players lol

I won't get into this argument since NT has done it a million times before but 3 quick points: 1) Larry Bird was old 2) International play has improved significantly since that date  3) The Dream Team lost to the reserve team that year (

)
Again, I'm not saying Kobe > MJ, but for someone to say Rip Hamilton could ever be in the same sentence as Mamba is obscene, especially taking into account that MJ's own coaches and teammates have compared MJ/Kobe.

Just because I like these debates, I'll take this 5 into any gym and no 5 from any era is gonna wipe them off the floor. Will the following 5 win every game? Nope. But to say they'd get dominated is again, obscene.

Wade

Kobe

LeBron

Durant

Dwight

Obviously you could replace Wade with CP3, Rose, etc but I prefer Wade.

 

[iamjusayn]

Originally Posted by kc24688

Though I was too young to watch Jordan I think it is probably correct to say that Kobe has more ways to score on offense, more than maybe anyone of all time, and that's what makes him so special. He worked very hard to earn this praise in my opinion. However, I think Jordan gets the edge based on his attitude that helped him play d and will his team to victories. Kind of like intangibles..  I think Wade is a better comparison to Jordan.

As soon as I read this in bold I could not fathom reading anymore....


SneakerHeathen wrote:

---

Kobe is my dude and I'm a Laker fan but. Jordan is the greatest NBA player who has ever lived.

So what? Neither were ever completely original. One day there will be kids that'll be borrowing from Kobe and LBJ, so what? Doesn't take one thing away from anyone's legacy.....



Just think about it fellas, one day there will be a kid just like LeBron, I mean it'll be mind boggling how much he'll play like him. He'll quit in the fourth quarter just like him too.

^ Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in bold esp if #8 got all his moves from MJ 

aztec06jr wrote:

---

Air273 wrote:

---

when he wins 6 finals MVPs then you can say its close.......really you can make the case that TD has been a more valuable player than kobe......has TD played with a hall of fame player? not counting david robinson since his prime ended when his back went out......look at the talent around TD when he won his championship vs. the nets not one player was near the level of a Gasol. 

look at wade he won a championship with a past his prime shaq, kobe had the best center in the league by far and playing at an all time great level winning finals MVPs 

the year the lakers lost to the pistions in the finals you put jordan at the same age as kobe there is no way they lose that series, NO WAY!.....dudes kobe got out played by richard hamilton! explain that to me! 

Kobe stans can play this game too:



Why did the Bulls barely miss a beat after MJ retired? Hell, their defense actually improved 

.







^ Not only do you sound silly but you just illustrated how valuable and how much leadership MJ imposed. How many other stars can leave their team and next season the team stays upbeat, tenacious and focused like that? It's the same thing as when he had to go out the game and the team would still continue smashing their opponent. That comes from strong leadership, not the fact that the team was better without him 

 and I can tell you did not watch much of their games with this comment. Google the "Breakfast Club" then get back to me 

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by Iamjusayn

Originally Posted by kc24688

Though I was too young to watch Jordan I think it is probably correct to say that Kobe has more ways to score on offense, more than maybe anyone of all time, and that's what makes him so special. He worked very hard to earn this praise in my opinion. However, I think Jordan gets the edge based on his attitude that helped him play d and will his team to victories. Kind of like intangibles..  I think Wade is a better comparison to Jordan.

As soon as I read this in bold I could not fathom reading anymore....


SneakerHeathen wrote:

---

Kobe is my dude and I'm a Laker fan but. Jordan is the greatest NBA player who has ever lived.

So what? Neither were ever completely original. One day there will be kids that'll be borrowing from Kobe and LBJ, so what? Doesn't take one thing away from anyone's legacy.....



Just think about it fellas, one day there will be a kid just like LeBron, I mean it'll be mind boggling how much he'll play like him. He'll quit in the fourth quarter just like him too.

^ Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in bold esp if #8 got all his moves from MJ 

aztec06jr wrote:

---

Air273 wrote:

---

when he wins 6 finals MVPs then you can say its close.......really you can make the case that TD has been a more valuable player than kobe......has TD played with a hall of fame player? not counting david robinson since his prime ended when his back went out......look at the talent around TD when he won his championship vs. the nets not one player was near the level of a Gasol. 

look at wade he won a championship with a past his prime shaq, kobe had the best center in the league by far and playing at an all time great level winning finals MVPs 

the year the lakers lost to the pistions in the finals you put jordan at the same age as kobe there is no way they lose that series, NO WAY!.....dudes kobe got out played by richard hamilton! explain that to me! 

Why didn't the Bulls succeed after MJ retired the 2nd time? Please bless me with more of your big-fonted logic.

 

[kc24688]

Maybe my comment is dumb I wouldn't know, but I do know that I would like a list of all the players you know that have so many more ways to score. Other people have hinted at believing this as well. Kobe has some of the best footwork ever and to me that means he can score by moving his feet and body in so many ways while he is still under control. How about some of you people get off your high horse and try to educate someone who wants to know the answer instead of being a typical douche of a person?  Seriously though you guys do realize that you add nothing to the thread and the only result of your comments is some sort of personal pride.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by kc24688

Maybe my comment is dumb I wouldn't know, but I do know that I would like a list of all the players you know that have so many more ways to score. Other people have hinted at believing this as well. Kobe has some of the best footwork ever and to me that means he can score by moving his feet and body in so many ways while he is still under control. How about some of you people get off your high horse and try to educate someone who wants to know the answer instead of being a typical douche of a person?  Seriously though you guys do realize that you add nothing to the thread and the only result of your comments is some sort of personal pride.

I agree with you. There are countless mixes of Kobe using his footwork and contorting his body in ways that no player has ever done. For anybody to laugh at Kobe's arsenal of moves is just obscene. Teams have been gameplanning for him his entire career and he has endured everything.

 

[5am6oody72]

Those teammates of Jordans that said Kobe is a better ball handler must have been his teammates on the Wizards or some !#%$. Kobe's hands are not very big and his handles have never been anywhere near as good as MJ's.

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Why did the Bulls barely miss a beat after MJ retired? Hell, their defense actually improved 

.

How are you barely missing a beat when you go from 3 straight NBA titles to a second round loss?

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Why couldn't MJ win without Scottie? 

He was going up against the Celtics who had Bird-Parrish-Mchale-Johnson (All HOFs by the way). While he was going to war with woolridge (didn't play defense nor pass), dailey (slightly above average but had drug issues which led to his demise) & Oak. Then woolridge and dailey left and all he had was Oak until Scottie was drafted.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

If MJ was so great, why did he only win 6?

What? Name another legend who has 6 rings after the merger.

 

[Air273]

but for someone to say Rip Hamilton could ever be in the same sentence as Mamba is obscene, especially taking into account that MJ's own coaches and teammates have compared MJ/Kobe.

who said that? maybe you're referring to my statement of richard hamilton out playing kobe on the biggest stage.

kobe getting out played by richard hamilton is a big dent in kobe's career and its rarely talked about, kobe was the downfall of the lakers...he tried to get his 1st finals mvp and failed he wanted to show the world he wasnt shaqs sidekick....shaq had good numbers kobe did not

jordan never failed at that level as kobe did in the finals.......MJ stepped up his game in the playoffs thats why he is the greatest

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Why did the Bulls barely miss a beat after MJ retired? Hell, their defense actually improved 

.

How are you barely missing a beat when you go from 3 straight NBA titles to a second round loss?

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Why couldn't MJ win without Scottie? 

He was going up against the Celtics who had Bird-Parrish-Mchale-Johnson (All HOFs by the way). While he was going to war with woolridge (didn't play defense nor pass), dailey (slightly above average but had drug issues which led to his demise) & Oak. Then woolridge and dailey left and all he had was Oak until Scottie was drafted.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

If MJ was so great, why did he only win 6?

What? Name another legend who has 6 rings after the merger.

1995 Playoff elimination had more to do with Hue Hollins w/ the worst call in playoff history than the Bulls actually missing a beat, good try though. Where do any of the Kobe Laker championship squads get without Kobe? Let's be real.
Re: Celtics, good points...ironically Kobe lost in 08 to a HOF-loaded team as well. MJ was being defended by Larry Bird, Kobe was being guarded by James Posey. 

Kobe has 5 rings..narrowly missed 2 other opportunities. Kobe was plagued with terrible teammates during his prime (Smush, Walton, Kwame, Mihm).

Again, I'm not saying Kobe > MJ. But let's be honest. Kobe has range and does moves that MJ can't do and vice versa. Could MJ have been a volume 3 pt shooter? Sure. Could Kobe do some of Jordan's moves? Sure. The fact remains, it's 2 of the best basketball players in the history of the sport, we're just being nitpicky and arguing 1A and 1B. 

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by Air273

but for someone to say Rip Hamilton could ever be in the same sentence as Mamba is obscene, especially taking into account that MJ's own coaches and teammates have compared MJ/Kobe.

Are we going to forget that Jordan had similar struggles against the same Detroit Piston franchise...3 straight years in the playoffs? He was also swept by the Celtics before that string of Detroit defeats. 
Kobe was the downfall of the Lakers? So it wasn't Karl Malone playing on 1 leg or a washed up Payton? Yes, Kobe was surely the downfall of the Lakers that year 

. That Pistons team ended up being a mini dynasty, one of the more successful teams in the mid-2000s. 

You can try to be nitpicky and find 1 matchup where a player might have played well (a la Rip Hamilton) but talent wise, Kobe IS seeing Jordan. Accomplishment wise? Of course Kobe isn't seeing MJ in some categories yet but he's obviously still playing at a very high level.

 

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by Iamjusayn

Originally Posted by kc24688

Though I was too young to watch Jordan I think it is probably correct to say that Kobe has more ways to score on offense, more than maybe anyone of all time, and that's what makes him so special. He worked very hard to earn this praise in my opinion. However, I think Jordan gets the edge based on his attitude that helped him play d and will his team to victories. Kind of like intangibles..  I think Wade is a better comparison to Jordan.

As soon as I read this in bold I could not fathom reading anymore....


SneakerHeathen wrote:

---

Kobe is my dude and I'm a Laker fan but. Jordan is the greatest NBA player who has ever lived.

So what? Neither were ever completely original. One day there will be kids that'll be borrowing from Kobe and LBJ, so what? Doesn't take one thing away from anyone's legacy.....



Just think about it fellas, one day there will be a kid just like LeBron, I mean it'll be mind boggling how much he'll play like him. He'll quit in the fourth quarter just like him too.

^ Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in bold esp if #8 got all his moves from MJ 

You sound foolish. I was trying to say that Jordan took elements of somebody's game as well (I bet you've never even watched an old Julius Erving game) and that everyone borrow's from their predecessors. Kobe borrowed A LOT from Jordan true, just like Jordan borrowed A LOT from Erving and Skywalker Thompson.

Secondly if you're going to dismiss something someone says at least have some sort substance to your retort other than "derp that's not true".

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by Iamjusayn

Originally Posted by kc24688

Though I was too young to watch Jordan I think it is probably correct to say that Kobe has more ways to score on offense, more than maybe anyone of all time, and that's what makes him so special. He worked very hard to earn this praise in my opinion. However, I think Jordan gets the edge based on his attitude that helped him play d and will his team to victories. Kind of like intangibles..  I think Wade is a better comparison to Jordan.

As soon as I read this in bold I could not fathom reading anymore....


SneakerHeathen wrote:

---

Kobe is my dude and I'm a Laker fan but. Jordan is the greatest NBA player who has ever lived.

So what? Neither were ever completely original. One day there will be kids that'll be borrowing from Kobe and LBJ, so what? Doesn't take one thing away from anyone's legacy.....



Just think about it fellas, one day there will be a kid just like LeBron, I mean it'll be mind boggling how much he'll play like him. He'll quit in the fourth quarter just like him too.

^ Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in bold esp if #8 got all his moves from MJ 

You sound foolish. I was trying to say that Jordan took elements of somebody's game as well (I bet you've never even watched an old Julius Erving game) and that everyone borrow's from their predecessors. Kobe borrowed A LOT from Jordan true, just like Jordan borrowed A LOT from Erving and Skywalker Thompson.

Secondly if you're going to dismiss something someone says at least have some sort substance to your retort other than "derp that's not true".

+1
Iamjusayn is obviously a MJ stan...

From MJ himself:

Jordan acknowledged that Bryant has patterned aspects of his game after Jordan's but does not see this as a bad thing at all: "But how many people lighted the path for me? That's the evoluation of basketball. There's no way I could have played the way I played if I didn't watch David Thompson and guys prior to me. There's no way Kobe could have played the way he's played without watching me play. So, you know, that's the evolution of basketball. You cannot change that."




From another article:




“I got a call from the Hall of Fame and they asked me if I was willing to be a presenter for someone,

 

[ill steelo]

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

1995 Playoff elimination had more to do with Hue Hollins w/ the worst call in playoff history than the Bulls actually missing a beat, good try though. Where do any of the Kobe Laker championship squads get without Kobe? Let's be real.

Blaming the refs? How pitiful is that? Especially after Scottie hit him. Crying about calls is just such a loser characteristic. Lemme guess, you had no issue in the '02 WCFs when LA shot 27 free throws in the last 12 minutes of game 6 right?  Fact (not opinion) is, CHI went from the NBA finals to out in the second round. That's far from barely missing a beat.

And how far do the '00-'02 Lakers get without Kobe? '00 They would be fine until the WCFs against POR. The next 2? Sure, they would be out in the 2nd round like Scottie's Bulls.
'09 & '10 Lakers? '09? Ok. They would be out in the 2nd against HOU. '10? As long as Artest is on Durant (he shot 35% in that series), they win that & then it would be smooth sailing until PHO in the WCFs.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Re: Celtics, good points...ironically Kobe lost in 08 to a HOF-loaded team as well. MJ was being defended by Larry Bird, Kobe was being guarded by James Posey. 

What? Jordan was primarily guarded by DJ, one of the best defensive in the league and also a 6 time all defense first teamer. Larry only got on him switches.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Kobe has 5 rings..narrowly missed 2 other opportunities.

Narrowly? You have a broader interpretation of narrow than I do. I can't begin to call the '04 finals victory by DET "narrow". The lakers were in danger of getting swept in that series. I can't describe the '08 series as a "narrow" either. LA was clearly the inferior team in the first 2 games, lost game 4 after they were up by 24 points, and were beaten by virtually 40 points in the last game.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by ill steelo

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

1995 Playoff elimination had more to do with Hue Hollins w/ the worst call in playoff history than the Bulls actually missing a beat, good try though. Where do any of the Kobe Laker championship squads get without Kobe? Let's be real.

Blaming the refs? How pitiful is that? Especially after Scottie hit him. Crying about calls is just such a loser characteristic. Lemme guess, you had no issue in the '02 WCFs when LA shot 27 free throws in the last 12 minutes of game 6 right?  Fact (not opinion) is, CHI went from the NBA finals to out in the second round. That's far from barely missing a beat.

And how far do the '00-'02 Lakers get without Kobe? '00 They would be fine until the WCFs against POR. The next 2? Sure, they would be out in the 2nd round like Scottie's Bulls.
'09 & '10 Lakers? '09? Ok. They would be out in the 2nd against HOU. '10? As long as Artest is on Durant (he shot 35% in that series), they win that & then it would be smooth sailing until PHO in the WCFs.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Re: Celtics, good points...ironically Kobe lost in 08 to a HOF-loaded team as well. MJ was being defended by Larry Bird, Kobe was being guarded by James Posey. 

What? Jordan was primarily guarded by DJ, one of the best defensive in the league and also a 6 time all defense first teamer. Larry only got on him switches.

Originally Posted by aztec06jr

Kobe has 5 rings..narrowly missed 2 other opportunities.

Narrowly? You have a broader interpretation of narrow than I do. I can't begin to call the '04 finals victory by DET "narrow". The lakers were in danger of getting swept in that series. I can't describe the '08 series as a "narrow" either. LA was beaten by virtually 40 points in the last game alone.

You obviously know your stuff but to discount Hue Jackson's impact on that play/series/season is obscene. He's one of the most infamous referees in NBA history because of that single play. 
Detroit and 08 Boston could've been different if Malone and Bynum/Ariza were healthy. Lame excuses? Sure. But so is bringing up the fact that the Celtics had 4 HOFers early in MJ's career.

At this point, can you agree we're being pretty nitpicky? Is Jordan superior in some facets? Yes. Is Kobe superior in some facets? Yes. Are they easily the 2 most complete and dominant swingmen to ever play the game? You'd be hard pressed to disagree. Now the tough question, is Kobe at his prime better than MJ in his prime? I mean we can do Kobe's 9 straight 40 point games, 81 point game etc....that Kobe was doing things the league had never seen, with one of the worst supporting casts a legend has ever been surrounded by. We often forget how dirty prime Kobe was because his teams were so bad but that Kobe couldn't be stopped in any era, same with MJ during the first three peat. 

You do know your stuff though.

 

[Air273]

Kobe was the downfall of the Lakers? So it wasn't Karl Malone playing on 1 leg or a washed up Payton? Yes, Kobe was surely the downfall of the Lakers that year

. That Pistons team ended up being a mini dynasty, one of the more successful teams in the mid-2000s.
 
Yes he was, clearly.  he had the worst playoff series of his career, malone and payton are role players.....are you going to tell me if kobe had a series like most of his series the lakers lose? dude shot 38% ......not only did kobe have his worst playoff series richard hamilton had his best....

Are we going to forget that Jordan had similar struggles against the same Detroit Piston franchise...3 straight years in the playoffs? He was also swept by the Celtics before that string of Detroit defeats.

is your comparison really fair?   only player i think of that won without a player playing at an allstar level as a sidekick is Timmy Legends 04 spurs.........jordan did win ring 6 with pippen his sidekick not himself with the bad back but toni played great that series.....
when kobe and shaq lost to the pistions they were 3 time champions both playing at a hall of frame level(shaq not at his best but still best center in the league), are any players on that pistions team giong to the hall of fame? great TEAM no doubt it.... oh and werent the lakers the home team in that series and favorites? and 2 of the top 5 players in entire NBA? or maybe it was top 10 so long ago i forget......    jordan did have a young pippen but did he have a hall of fame center? was young pippen playing at his best during those seasons? 
shaq avg 26 that series 5 points above his avg kobe 22 2 points below his avg.....come playoff time legends step their game up.........yes jordan couldnt beat the pistons those 3 years but he scoring was higher in the playoffs each of those years than reg season, in fact i think every year in the playoffs jordan avg more than he did in the reg season.....thats not easy to do as you know the best teams make the playoffs, defense is better(ask wilt how hard it is to score more in playoffs than reg season) jordans will to win is unmatched yes he did lose but did he have all star level teammates....pippen was not pippen until 91 that was his first year that he made an all nba team.  take 93 pippen and put him on the 88, 89, 90 bulls maybe jordan/pip gets past them, i think at least one of those seasons they would have....but sports are not about what ifs.....results mater and kobe didnt give the results expected of him in that finals series.....jordan 6 championships in 13 seasons will the bulls not a bad %


oh and i really feel bad about kobe being plagued without an allstar teammate for like 2 of his 15 years in the nba, poor poor kobe

i wonder, has the greatest basketball player that ever stepped on the court lost a series when his team were the favorties.....only one i can think of is 95 magic with shaq and magic had home court.....to sum up i highly doubt jordan ever lost a playoff series as favorties and with home court........i could be wrong, maybe

 

[mikedamz]

1'm 30 and i've seen both... MJ > kobe by a quite margin. 

 

[mikedamz]

well KD thinks this is a "kobe" move. 

MJ been doing this %%$# since the 80s. 

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

So in other words you don't have an answer? Just say that instead of belittling the though of Kobe being compared to him, as if he is Ben Uzoh or somebody.

Player Efficiency Rating

2000-01 NBA 24.5 (6)
2001-02 NBA 23.2 (8 )
2002-03 NBA 26.2 (5)
2003-04 NBA 23.7 (5)
2004-05 NBA 23.3 (7)
2005-06 NBA 28.0 (3)
2006-07 NBA 26.1 (3)
2007-08 NBA 24.2 (8 )
2008-09 NBA 24.4 (6)
2010-11 NBA 23.9 (5)


1984-85 NBA 25.8 (2)
1986-87 NBA 29.8 (1)
1987-88 NBA 31.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 31.1 (1)
1989-90 NBA 31.2 (1)
1990-91 NBA 31.6 (1)
1991-92 NBA 27.7 (1)
1992-93 NBA 29.7 (1)
1995-96 NBA 29.4 (2)
1996-97 NBA 27.8 (2)
1997-98 NBA 25.2 (4)

And if you don't like "advanced stats", tell me what you want to compare. There's no comparison in any category that reflects individual greatness. Absolutely none.

 

[xsalvioutlawx]

lol @ MJ stans. MJ don't even like black people, word to chamillionaire.