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Just witnessing how fiercely dominant he was makes it a bit disappointing because he could've won one in Cleveland. Easily. It wasn't the team that wasn't ready to win, it was LeBron that wasn't ready.
Now that he's won a ring, did Lebron make the right choice in leaving the Cavs for MIA?
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by bigtimejerky,
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Is MJ's legacy tarnished at all for retiring to play (and suck) at minor league baseball?Originally Posted by PatentBoy23
The Decision wasOriginally Posted by 23ska909red02
How is this debatable?
Yes.
x infinity
7 years w/ CLE, his legacy was 'one of the most gifted talents the league has ever seen, but still in the company of all the other championshipless talents; sure, he's better than most of them, hell, all of them, but that's the table he sits at'
2 years w/ MIA, and his legacy... if it stopped RIGHT NOW... is one word: 'champion'.THAT'S the table he sits at now. You could add more words to narrow down the company he keeps; 'champion... Finals MVP... scoring champion... #1 pick... triple-double in the Finals', etc..., but that first word 'champion' absolutely makes t so that he made the right decision. He is NOT a champion right now if he stayed w/ the Cavs. No way, no how, wasn't happening.Although he donated profits to charity, he looked like a buffoon for pulling a stunt like that. Bron ruined his legacy by joining a mega team. Players can't do it on their own but Bosh and Wade are more than enough help to win; he needed all that help even though he's toted as being the best in the worldIf he stayed in Cleveland, he wouldn't be able to win right away, but with his level of talent/influence, he should have gotten on the Cav's management and Gilbert, demanding that they bring in new talent for their team, which never happend. You can't lie about how incredible it would've been for him to win a championship for Cleveland. If he did that, then I would automatically put him in the conversation with Jordan and Kobe. I respect him for winning and believe you can say he's the best in the NBA now but his legacy remains tarnished.
Like I said earlier....retiring early on your team, fans, etc. is worse to me, than going in front of the cameras and saying you're exercising your right as a free agent to go to a better team.
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Let's not forget Damon Jones was on that team. The same Damon Jones that ended up playing in China a season or two after LBJ took em to the finals. Pavlovic couldn't get minutes in Minny was he left Cle and has bounced around between Dallas and Boston. Boobie Gibson hit those 3's in Game 6 '07 and has been pretty irrelevant ever since. Dude couldn't start for any team in the league and yet he makin $4 mil/yr thanks to LBJ raising his profile.Originally Posted by Chuck Finster
I'm saying though.
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Easily
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There has never been or will be parity in the NBA. Stop that argument. In the 80's it was Boston, Philly or the Lakers winning the title. Jordan played in 6 Finals in 8 yrs during the 90's. Tim Duncan won 4 titles in 9 years. Kobe has played in 7 NBA finals since '99-00 season. Shaq played in 5. Where is the parity?
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This.
They won 66 games people. 66 GAMES! Yet guys are making it seem like that team was super trash.
You don't win 66 games with a trash supporting cast. PERIOD!
Is MJ's legacy tarnished at all for retiring to play (and suck) at minor league baseball?
He had 3 rings and felt he reached a point where he didn't want to play basketball. So he gave baseball, a sport that him and his dad LOVED a shot. He didn't go to another team.
Like I said earlier....retiring early on your team, fans, etc. is worse to me, than going in front of the cameras and saying you're exercising your right as a free agent to go to a better team.
Jordan winning 3 rings in Chicago, retiring and going to play baseball is worse than Lebron? The same Lebron who had 0 rings in Cleveland, went on national television to announce he was leaving to go play in Miami with Wade and Bosh.
He danced up and down the court like it was all lul'z. Then came time to get serious and he deflated which leads to the rest of the team deflating. Ask Kobe about that time when he stopped caring. He'll tell you too.
You're right though, Jordan 3 peating and then retiring to play baseball is worse.
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What did ANYONE on the supporting cast do in their entire careers, without LeBron? They were trash. The East was just down that yr, and the Pistons let him go wild *%%$ on them and score 1,000 pts in a row without making anyone else do anything.
In b4 you talk about Big Z's "all star" career
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08-09 - 66 wins
09-10 - 59 wins
10-11 - 18 wins
We really trying to argue the Cavs were actually a good team? Oh wait, Verajao only played 30 games. Thats why they only lost 64 games right?
09-10 - 59 wins
10-11 - 18 wins
We really trying to argue the Cavs were actually a good team? Oh wait, Verajao only played 30 games. Thats why they only lost 64 games right?
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The East was down that year then that's more reason to make it to the finals.
The other players haven't done all that much without Lebron. That is true. 66 games are a lot of wins for scrubs though.
How many teams can lose their A guy, plus the coach and bounce back the next year?
They're trash though. You win.
xtapolapacetl
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Before I mention how garbage the Cavs were after LeBron left, they were 1-6 in the 7 games LeBron missed those two seasons where they had the best record in the league.
Anyway, the following season = second-worst record in the league and record setting 26 losses in a row. You can desperately list all the other "differences" between the pre- and post-LeBron Cavs but all those differences don't hold water. Mo Williams and Varejao were injured, but still played plenty of games on the 10-11 Cavs to show that that team was still garbage. Ilgauskas "led" the Cavs to a 19 win season in his prime so as a 36 year-old he certainly wouldn't have made them a better team. Delonte West missed plenty of games in the 08-09 and 09-10 season and they still won the vast majority of those games he missed. The only difference that mattered was LeBron.
That supporting cast = hot garbage. Look at them now. The best player, who was supposed to be LeBron's #2 guy in winning a championship is a fourth option on a Clippers team that got swept.
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I can just hear the slurping before I even clicked the thread
.
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Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539
I can just hear the slurping before I even clicked the thread.
probably Yuku going into a time warp again and displaying your own posts pre 2010
Humbled
formerly whatslosinlike
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Originally Posted by Scientific Method
Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539
I can just hear the slurping before I even clicked the thread.
probably Yuku going into a time warp again and displaying your own posts pre 2010
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DamnOriginally Posted by Scientific Method
Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539
I can just hear the slurping before I even clicked the thread.
probably Yuku going into a time warp again and displaying your own posts pre 2010
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Oh boy.
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Originally Posted by Scientific Method
Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539
I can just hear the slurping before I even clicked the thread.
probably Yuku going into a time warp again and displaying your own posts pre 2010
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Agreed, but people need to get the $*@* over it already.
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Ya'll telling me that a team with these guys wouldn't be better that what LeBron worked with?
A great example of this is look at the current Cavs. They are trying to BUILD a team with Kyrie, not assemble a team to keep him from leaving. Also, can you name a team with a young superstar where management built around them in hopes of keeping them and the team succeeded???
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Team wasn't trash, but it wasn't sufficient enough for a perimeter player to win a ring.
In '09, excluding Bron, the only two players who had an above league average PER were Mo & a 33 year old Big z, neither of whom were even top 10 at their positions.
If Bron had won with them, he'd be the first perimeter player in league history to lead his team to a title without a non-injury replacement all star
big j 33
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The Cavs were good for the regular season. Lebron + others will beat most teams on a random Tuesday night during the regular season.
When you need to count on Jamison or Mo Williams come playoff time... that's where the trouble was.
When you need to count on Jamison or Mo Williams come playoff time... that's where the trouble was.
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Originally Posted by illfrozn
When will ya'll realize that the Cavs were built to KEEP LeBron and not mature with him? Look at the players signed and traded for while LBJ was in Cleveland. The majority of them were veterans. Do ya'll know how many draft picks they traded away in the years LeBron was there??? Cavs management signed and traded for players to appease LeBron and players that they thought could make an immediate impact. Yes, they were wrong at times, but you guys kill me with this hindsight thing. Eric Snow had playoff success in his career; Larry Hughes was a sought after FA; Jamison was going to put the Cavs over the edge in many people's eyes; Joe Smith was a sought after FA; Mo Williams was looked at as a promising player; people thought Shaq was going to be able to contribute; Leon Powe was a servicable bench player, etc. Look at some of the young players (at the time) that went through the Cavs system: Danny Green, Shannon Brown, Drew Gooden, Carlos Boozer, Gibson, Vare-whatever, J.J. Hickson, Delonte West. Players drafted with Cleveland picks include Jared Dudley and Rudy Fernandez.
Ya'll telling me that a team with these guys wouldn't be better that what LeBron worked with?
A great example of this is look at the current Cavs. They are trying to BUILD a team with Kyrie, not assemble a team to keep him from leaving. Also, can you name a team with a young superstar where management built around them in hopes of keeping them and the team succeeded???
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How is anyone going to say the Cavs had a good enough team around him. Did you see how god awful they became after he left those bums?
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With Peyton Manning the Colts were a lock for the playoffs EVERY season. Look what happen when he got hurt.