NT, if I'm investing 3 stacks for my friend to play poker.. how much should I expect in returns?

Originally Posted by georgehimself

This will fail. You shouldn't give him the money if he isn't good at poker. Since he is asking you for money then he isn't a good at poker.
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He is asking me for money because he has never been able to consistently provide himself with a bankroll large enough to ride out the "bad waves" ofpoker. i don't know if this holds any ground, maybe a good player can chime in?
 
Originally Posted by Anthony Stark

I mean, if he really is talented, he wouldn't need your money to play.

He strikes me as a player who might have the ability to play, but doesn't have the ability to manage his money.

And that's a HUGE red flag.
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could you elaborate more on what you mean by not having the ability to manage his money? you mean not paying me back in a timely manner or not keeping hisword, or more of a poker-specific money management thing?
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by georgehimself

This will fail. You shouldn't give him the money if he isn't good at poker. Since he is asking you for money then he isn't a good at poker.
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He is asking me for money because he has never been able to consistently provide himself with a bankroll large enough to ride out the "bad waves" of poker. i don't know if this holds any ground, maybe a good player can chime in?
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Then tell him to sit at a limit that allows him to ride out the bad waves.

They have 0.1/0.2 stakes online.

He can start a legit bankroll with 40 bucks.

If he's not willing to grind it out and build his own bankroll, I wouldn't loan him anything because that's telling me that he's impatient.

Poker is a game of patience.
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by MnMballa2323

Originally Posted by Tfromthe617

you shouldn't expect anything.. it's poker, not exactly a sound investment bro.

you should just hope he doesn't !%@+ up your money.
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Lol to some people poker is for fun, for others it is an investment...I play poker part time for a living and im up over $2,000 since the first of the year...last year i made 22K playing poker...I play about 3 to 4 times a week. 3K is enough to start a bankroll and get going, I started mine with $4,000 which is 20 buy ins so i could afford to take some swings before i built a bankroll.
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yep you get exactly the situation i'm in. i'm open to your thoughts about my matter. i don't want to invest 3g's, with the potential to lose it all for nothing, and then only make 3-5g's back when my friend can continue to make stacks and stacks after we're done. i'm not greedy, but i'd also like things to be fair.
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What game is he gonna be playing? and where is he gonna play? online or live....As much as i play live, i never play online....I know theres moneyto be made online i just never got into it.

There are rules he is gonna have to follow if he wants to play for a living...NEVER let emotions get to you, he is gonna take swings and thats y he needs abankroll because a good player, in the long run will come out ahead. Also put that 3G's in a seperate bank account and NEVER mix it with everyday money. Once you start doing that it becomes too stressfull and will discourage him after a few beats. When you take your "50%" do not take it after everytime he plays or after a week or so etc...Keep the money in the account and keep playing with it. You have to take its seriously like a job.
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by Anthony Stark

I mean, if he really is talented, he wouldn't need your money to play.

He strikes me as a player who might have the ability to play, but doesn't have the ability to manage his money.

And that's a HUGE red flag.
Click to expand...

could you elaborate more on what you mean by not having the ability to manage his money? you mean not paying me back in a timely manner or not keeping his word, or more of a poker-specific money management thing?
Click to expand...

Poker-specific money management.

If he's a trustworthy dude and he's making the money, there's no reason to think he won't pay you what he owes you.

I'll try to put this as simple as possible.

Say you loan him 3k, his bankroll is now $3,000.

He should not be sitting with anymore than $150 at any given table at a time.

You sit with no more than 5% of your total bankroll, this is how you avoid the "bad waves" of poker.

Some people feel comfortable sitting with 10%, but anything higher than that is too risky IMO.
 
he has told me that he will be playing with 1.5-3% per table.

he is also going to be playing multiple tables at a time. this is ALL online poker.
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by DublBagn

I am assuming a few things, he can play fairly well, you trust him and you know nothing about business.....

Does he have any money to match with??? if not, think of it as a business, he as the ideas/skill you have the money...you recoup OG investment and collect 50% of the profits after that.....no cut off!!!!

in reality, I would not give him a cent.....I supported myself for 3 years playing poker and I learned that if he has no money now, he cant be that good.......
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i do know a bit about business, but not in the sense of funding and what's appropriate to take. this is where NT really helps, the advice and experience of others can help me a lot. i appreciate your response.

on the other hand, and i know it's lame because you should never involve business, money, and your friends, but in this situation, as a friend, taking 50% for the rest of his poker career is something i don't want to do because i don't believe it's fair. especially since the payout can be significantly greater than the initial investment. for example, if i wanted to start a yogurt place and it only cost 50g's to make and my friend fronted 50g's straight up, if i made 1mil my first year, i wouldn't be happy with giving him 50% of that for the rest of my store's life, just because it wouldn't be fair to me IMO.
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its not a matter of happiness or enjoyability.....he cant do something without what you have, in this case funding......I have a friend who took100k from a friend to start 4 little ceasers pizza joints, he has to cough up 50% of his profits for 10 years then 10% for the life of the business or he hasto give one store to the guy......

thats business my friend.....if you dont want to have to worry about that, just charge him interest on the 3k.......3-4% a week is just about the goingrate.....
 
Originally Posted by georgehimself

This will fail. You shouldn't give him the money if he isn't good at poker. Since he is asking you for money then he isn't a good at poker.
Click to expand...

So becaue he is asking for money that makes him a bad player? You are absolutelyyyyy wrong sir...you obviously do not play poker, and if you do, players likeyou are the reason i do very well playing the game.
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

he has told me that he will be playing with 1.5-3% per table.

he is also going to be playing multiple tables at a time. this is ALL online poker.
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If he has a sound bankroll management plan, he really shouldn't need a loan from you.

I have a feeling he might sit with all that money and just hope to get lucky

I personally wouldn't loan him a fraction of a penny, it's your money though.
 
Originally Posted by DublBagn

Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by DublBagn

I am assuming a few things, he can play fairly well, you trust him and you know nothing about business.....

Does he have any money to match with??? if not, think of it as a business, he as the ideas/skill you have the money...you recoup OG investment and collect 50% of the profits after that.....no cut off!!!!

in reality, I would not give him a cent.....I supported myself for 3 years playing poker and I learned that if he has no money now, he cant be that good.......
Click to expand...

i do know a bit about business, but not in the sense of funding and what's appropriate to take. this is where NT really helps, the advice and experience of others can help me a lot. i appreciate your response.

on the other hand, and i know it's lame because you should never involve business, money, and your friends, but in this situation, as a friend, taking 50% for the rest of his poker career is something i don't want to do because i don't believe it's fair. especially since the payout can be significantly greater than the initial investment. for example, if i wanted to start a yogurt place and it only cost 50g's to make and my friend fronted 50g's straight up, if i made 1mil my first year, i wouldn't be happy with giving him 50% of that for the rest of my store's life, just because it wouldn't be fair to me IMO.
Click to expand...
its not a matter of happiness or enjoyability.....he cant do something without what you have, in this case funding......I have a friend who took 100k from a friend to start 4 little ceasers pizza joints, he has to cough up 50% of his profits for 10 years then 10% for the life of the business or he has to give one store to the guy......

thats business my friend.....if you dont want to have to worry about that, just charge him interest on the 3k.......3-4% a week is just about the going rate.....
Click to expand...

i like your 10% idea and will most likely roll with that AFTER i get a certain amount back with a larger cut. thanks for the info and tips sir!
 
yeah ask him what his online screen name is, there are websites on the web that have probably tracked his previous play.
he says 1.5-3% per table...im guessing he is playing either 50NL/100NL online (25c/50c or 50c/1 dollar blinds)

if you want to help him out you should loan him 1k and have him grind out 50NL. That's all he really needs for that level to start off if he has somesuccess. Try to find out his screen name and what site he plays on though.

And also something to consider is that if it's all online he gets bonuses for putting in volume on these websites, there should be something negotiatedwhere you get a kickback of that too. I have Supernova status on Pokerstars and for 2010 I'm gonna get about 40% rakeback for the year, a significantamount of my profits come form playing a lot and gaining bonuses.

If you have never staked someone playing online I wouldn't do it though. It's too complicated if you don't know how online poker works.
 
Originally Posted by Anthony Stark

Originally Posted by recycledpaper

him using the 3g's to get himself on his feet > me potentially losing 3g's. not saying i wouldn't bat an eye with losing $3,000, but i do have a lot of trust in him as he is a very good friend of mine.
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I mean, that's cool and all, but can the man play poker?
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this
 
Your friend is an complete moron to agree to anything more than a repayment of the initial investment plus some additional interest for the loan you are givinghim. You are acting like 3k is a substantial investment that should bring your returns forever (or the life of his poker career). A poker example would be theguys who win or do very well in the WSOP events and agree to pay a certain percentage to their backers. Those backers don't insist on receiving percentagesof the poker players winning for the life of their career. That is absolutely ******ed. Lend him the money with an agreed to interest rate that is beneficialto you and be done with it after you recoup the money with interest.
 
Nawwwwww

1) It's online, not live play.
2) You are asking how to set it up as if you are GUARANTEED he will not lose it. If he was that good of a player, he would not need your money.
3) He is saying he needs 3K, but is only going to sit with $15-$30 at a time? BS - Their is NO WAY a player that needs a stake is going to play thatconservative with 3K. I guarantee he might start with low stakes like that, but it won't last long.

He will lose it within 2 weeks and say he had a bunch of bad beats....

OK. Obviously, he hasn't had bankroll management in the past. He says 3K @ 1.5-3% will give him cushion. Ok, sounds good, BUT, what about his bankroll inthe past? He obviously was playing with a lot less, but at the same stakes....with no cushion. If he is a good player than he has had his bankroll big enoughto play conservative and take a hit, so why didn't it work? He WILL step the stakes up and he WILL sit down with 10% when he plays. I would bet $100 on itright now. He might start low, but he will not be able to help himself...

Then, once he loses 10%, it won't be about slowly making profit, it will be strictly about getting that 10% back by any means. Then, once he loses another10%, same thing. Before you know it, it is telling you he lost it all with quads...


You would be better off going to the casino and placing it on either black/red or odd/even...Your odds are better and you get instant payout if youhit....
 
Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by DublBagn

Originally Posted by recycledpaper

Originally Posted by DublBagn

I am assuming a few things, he can play fairly well, you trust him and you know nothing about business.....

Does he have any money to match with??? if not, think of it as a business, he as the ideas/skill you have the money...you recoup OG investment and collect 50% of the profits after that.....no cut off!!!!

in reality, I would not give him a cent.....I supported myself for 3 years playing poker and I learned that if he has no money now, he cant be that good.......
Click to expand...

i do know a bit about business, but not in the sense of funding and what's appropriate to take. this is where NT really helps, the advice and experience of others can help me a lot. i appreciate your response.

on the other hand, and i know it's lame because you should never involve business, money, and your friends, but in this situation, as a friend, taking 50% for the rest of his poker career is something i don't want to do because i don't believe it's fair. especially since the payout can be significantly greater than the initial investment. for example, if i wanted to start a yogurt place and it only cost 50g's to make and my friend fronted 50g's straight up, if i made 1mil my first year, i wouldn't be happy with giving him 50% of that for the rest of my store's life, just because it wouldn't be fair to me IMO.
Click to expand...
its not a matter of happiness or enjoyability.....he cant do something without what you have, in this case funding......I have a friend who took 100k from a friend to start 4 little ceasers pizza joints, he has to cough up 50% of his profits for 10 years then 10% for the life of the business or he has to give one store to the guy......

thats business my friend.....if you dont want to have to worry about that, just charge him interest on the 3k.......3-4% a week is just about the going rate.....
Click to expand...

i like your 10% idea and will most likely roll with that AFTER i get a certain amount back with a larger cut. thanks for the info and tips sir!
Click to expand...
You think that you are going to get 10% of his poker winnings for life?

1) You're assuming he will make a profit for the rest of his life.
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2) You will never know how much he has made. You think if he makes 3K one day he is going to call and tell you?
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3) You would need a contract to insure you get your money. GL getting a contract on something illegal to hold up...

If you lend him that money, you're ******ed, IMO.
Matter of fact, once he loses it within the next 2-3 weeks, make another thread asking us how to collect a debt...

Put him to the test - Lend him $100 and tell him to play with 3% of that. Once he makes it into $400, you will lend him 1K and he will play with 3% ofthat....Won't happen. He will take the $100 and play with 33% at 1 time because he has no bankroll management and you will be glad you didn't do it...
 
Originally Posted by tree4twenty

Nawwwwww

1) It's online, not live play.
2) You are asking how to set it up as if you are GUARANTEED he will not lose it. If he was that good of a player, he would not need your money.
3) He is saying he needs 3K, but is only going to sit with $15-$30 at a time? BS - Their is NO WAY a player that needs a stake is going to play that conservative with 3K. I guarantee he might start with low stakes like that, but it won't last long.

He will lose it within 2 weeks and say he had a bunch of bad beats....

OK. Obviously, he hasn't had bankroll management in the past. He says 3K @ 1.5-3% will give him cushion. Ok, sounds good, BUT, what about his bankroll in the past? He obviously was playing with a lot less, but at the same stakes....with no cushion. If he is a good player than he has had his bankroll big enough to play conservative and take a hit, so why didn't it work? He WILL step the stakes up and he WILL sit down with 10% when he plays. I would bet $100 on it right now. He might start low, but he will not be able to help himself...

Then, once he loses 10%, it won't be about slowly making profit, it will be strictly about getting that 10% back by any means. Then, once he loses another 10%, same thing. Before you know it, it is telling you he lost it all with quads...


You would be better off going to the casino and placing it on either black/red or odd/even...Your odds are better and you get instant payout if you hit....
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@ your avy.
 
Originally Posted by mrmossyman84

yeah ask him what his online screen name is, there are websites on the web that have probably tracked his previous play.
he says 1.5-3% per table...im guessing he is playing either 50NL/100NL online (25c/50c or 50c/1 dollar blinds)

if you want to help him out you should loan him 1k and have him grind out 50NL. That's all he really needs for that level to start off if he has some success. Try to find out his screen name and what site he plays on though.

And also something to consider is that if it's all online he gets bonuses for putting in volume on these websites, there should be something negotiated where you get a kickback of that too. I have Supernova status on Pokerstars and for 2010 I'm gonna get about 40% rakeback for the year, a significant amount of my profits come form playing a lot and gaining bonuses.

If you have never staked someone playing online I wouldn't do it though. It's too complicated if you don't know how online poker works.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'll try to get his online poker handle today and let you guys know what's up. Thanks for the advice.

I will be taking a portion of his rakebacks as well. He told me that he can make a lot of money from rakebacks alone and I told him that that will be includedin the profits. He is totally fine with that.
 
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