ObamaCare upheld.

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by TXCaddyKing

We need single payer with an option to buy private insurance. Everyone will be guaranteed a basic level of healthcare and those that can afford and want extra can get it. Your employer will not have to cover your insurance and theoretically could pay you more. Of course, we would have to pay more taxes, but then there could be price controls.

Love the reply about being thankful for living in Canada. All I ever hear is how Canadians come to the US to go to the doctor.

Yeah sure, believe that propaganda if you want.

Look at any rankings of the quality of health care by country you will find Canada consistently ahead of the united states, especially for the average person, as somebody who has had family go through cancer as US citizens and Canadian citizens, I'm sticking with Canada b. The quality of care was the same, if not better, did not have worry about insurance coverage,  we didn't even have to pay for in home tutoring, while my bro missed school or the nurse that would come to our house daily and deliver shots, and take blood etc.  

 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by SCuse7

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

I just don't get how people can not want everyone to be covered.....Healthcare is already ridiculous with the prices, so this should lower costs on the whole...it's by no means perfect but the current situation is asanine

Because have you been to Canada? Their taxes are insane.

I paid $20 for a 12 pack of beer.

government controls liquor, in various places leading to expensive alcohol.

extra sales tax = still worth it. imo/

 

[lyonbc1]

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

This is a good thing for Americans overall. If everyone is covered by insurance, it lowers costs for everyone involved. It's absurd that we're the "world leader" and not all our citizens are covered for health.

Explain how increasing Demand for an industry that already has a shortage of Supply will DECREASE costs?

It won't directly or immediately lower costs but over time, by making everyone to be responsible (financially) for their own care, health costs won't rise as quickly to cover unpaid treatments. : http://www.familiesusa.or...g-families-findings.html

For instance, when hospitals get a car accident victim W/O insurance, they still have to treat them....and then another person's insurance has to come in and help pay that down the costs of the person w/o insurance's procedures...this is what makes people's premiums so damn high right now....the rise of premiums will become more stagnant and tolerable over time

 

[superblytrife]

Originally Posted by SCuse7

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

I just don't get how people can not want everyone to be covered.....Healthcare is already ridiculous with the prices, so this should lower costs on the whole...it's by no means perfect but the current situation is asanine

Because have you been to Canada? Their taxes are insane.

I paid $20 for a 12 pack of beer.

ZOMG!!!!! Meanwhile, your higher taxed beer just helped someone with cancer. Think about that trade off for a second and then think about how ridiculous your response was.

 

[rashi]

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

This is a good thing for Americans overall. If everyone is covered by insurance, it lowers costs for everyone involved. It's absurd that we're the "world leader" and not all our citizens are covered for health.

Explain how increasing Demand for an industry that already has a shortage of Supply will DECREASE costs?

It won't directly or immediately lower costs but over time, by making everyone to be responsible (financially) for their own care, health costs won't rise as quickly to cover unpaid treatments. : http://www.familiesusa.or...g-families-findings.html

For instance, when hospitals get a car accident victim W/O insurance, they still have to treat them....and then another person's insurance has to come in and help pay that down the costs of the person w/o insurance's procedures...this is what makes people's premiums so damn high right now....the rise of premiums will become more stagnant and tolerable over time

Dude, people come to my office for stubbing their toe and we have to take x-rays and even sometimes MRIs just to cover our behinds. You think this is going to decrease because now they have insurance?

Forcing people to buy insurance enables them to take more risk, not less.

 

[scuse7]

Originally Posted by superblyTRIFE

Originally Posted by SCuse7

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

I just don't get how people can not want everyone to be covered.....Healthcare is already ridiculous with the prices, so this should lower costs on the whole...it's by no means perfect but the current situation is asanine

Because have you been to Canada? Their taxes are insane.

I paid $20 for a 12 pack of beer.

ZOMG!!!!! Meanwhile, your higher taxed beer just helped someone with cancer. Think about that trade off for a second and then think about how ridiculous your response was.

   I didn't mean it by the beer, just in terms of everything. It's all about what you value. I'm all for helping other people, just not in the way it is done in Canada.

I'll take lower costs on most things, and less taxes. Hope that my employer in the future covers my healthcare. If I become jobless and get cancer, then obviously, I'll be regretting my decision.

 

[lyonbc1]

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by Boys Noize

This is a good thing for Americans overall. If everyone is covered by insurance, it lowers costs for everyone involved. It's absurd that we're the "world leader" and not all our citizens are covered for health.

Explain how increasing Demand for an industry that already has a shortage of Supply will DECREASE costs?

It won't directly or immediately lower costs but over time, by making everyone to be responsible (financially) for their own care, health costs won't rise as quickly to cover unpaid treatments. : http://www.familiesusa.or...g-families-findings.html



For instance, when hospitals get a car accident victim W/O insurance, they still have to treat them....and then another person's insurance has to come in and help pay that down the costs of the person w/o insurance's procedures...this is what makes people's premiums so damn high right now....the rise of premiums will become more stagnant and tolerable over time

Dude, people come to my office for stubbing their toe and we have to take x-rays and even sometimes MRIs just to cover our behinds. You think this is going to decrease because now they have insurance?

Forcing people to buy insurance enables them to take more risk, not less.

Not disagreeing with your first point b/c I don't work in the health care field right now....but how would they want to take more risk though? If they're not covered then the next person coming into your office has to indirectly have their insurance come pay for that and then everyone's premium rises...like if I get into an accident with a dude with no insurance then I'm SOL, if they're covered then it makes things much easier
The US is ranked 37th in the world by the WHO for health care....that's unacceptable for the most powerful country in the world

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

Originally Posted by rashi



Explain how increasing Demand for an industry that already has a shortage of Supply will DECREASE costs?

It won't directly or immediately lower costs but over time, by making everyone to be responsible (financially) for their own care, health costs won't rise as quickly to cover unpaid treatments. : http://www.familiesusa.or...g-families-findings.html

For instance, when hospitals get a car accident victim W/O insurance, they still have to treat them....and then another person's insurance has to come in and help pay that down the costs of the person w/o insurance's procedures...this is what makes people's premiums so damn high right now....the rise of premiums will become more stagnant and tolerable over time

Dude, people come to my office for stubbing their toe and we have to take x-rays and even sometimes MRIs just to cover our behinds. You think this is going to decrease because now they have insurance?

Forcing people to buy insurance enables them to take more risk, not less.

Not to mention paying a premium is just that- a premium.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the ensurers bases this premium based off costs from previous years.  So over time your premium is still going to go up and if there are more people using more resources more often, then the cost of health care is only going to go up.  Although I won't say the bill is 100% bad, it is a very bad direction and gives the government and the healthcare lobby way too much control over our physical well being.

 

[mike23theking]

Originally Posted by rayray3thousand

can someone explain a "dumbed down" version of this? I wan't to make sure that I fully understand what just happened...

This.

A Cliff's Notes version is requested, please.

 

[superblytrife]

Serious question here. To those opposed to the ACA, what is an alternative, realistic solution to getting our healthcare system back on track? I often hear opposition and criticism, but rarely a plan to fix an obviously broken system.

 

[trelvis tha thrilla]

Originally Posted by Scott Frost

Welp, that's a shame.

 

[hankmoody]

Hmm... If the ACA is so great for insurers, why are major insurance stocks down? CI down 5%, WLP down 6%, AET down 4.5%, HUM down 3%, etc.

For anyone looking, scotusblog.com is the best resource for analysis.

 

[matt53]

Economic question: is this gonna spur the creation of insurance companies that offer minimalist coverage just so people can stay legal? I'm thinking of those commercials for the car insurance that you can buy on the Internet

 

[lyonbc1]

Originally Posted by 8tothe24

Originally Posted by rashi

Originally Posted by LyonBC1

Originally Posted by rashi



Explain how increasing Demand for an industry that already has a shortage of Supply will DECREASE costs?

It won't directly or immediately lower costs but over time, by making everyone to be responsible (financially) for their own care, health costs won't rise as quickly to cover unpaid treatments. : http://www.familiesusa.or...g-families-findings.html



For instance, when hospitals get a car accident victim W/O insurance, they still have to treat them....and then another person's insurance has to come in and help pay that down the costs of the person w/o insurance's procedures...this is what makes people's premiums so damn high right now....the rise of premiums will become more stagnant and tolerable over time

Dude, people come to my office for stubbing their toe and we have to take x-rays and even sometimes MRIs just to cover our behinds. You think this is going to decrease because now they have insurance?

Forcing people to buy insurance enables them to take more risk, not less.

Not to mention paying a premium is just that- a premium.  Correct me if
I'm wrong, but the ensurers bases this premium based off costs from
previous years.  So over time your premium is still going to go up and
if there are more people using more resources more often, then the cost
of health care is only going to go up.  Although I won't say the bill is
100% bad, it is a very bad direction and gives the government and the
healthcare lobby way too much control over our physical well being.

But right now, the way I understand it from what I've read, a lot of the premiums we pay (like 30-40%) aren't even used for healthcare, they're just used to pay for overheads and with this law, they will have to use at least 80% directly to cover medical costs and if they don't we all get rebates.....dont think for a second that the big insurance companies need to spend that much on overhead and administrative fees, they are already raking in cash might as well have a much higher percentage of it go to helping our fellow americans in need of medical assistance.....maybe I'm in the minority but I'll pay a relatively miniscule tax on food or whatever (if it comes to that) to help people, especially kids, who need insurance and to make sure they get the care they need

 

[trappstar]

I just don't understand how anyone can argue that providing people with a means to seek help is a terrible thing. I make six figures so this will hurt my pockets but I don't mind. For once capitalism takes a backseat to humanity. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[dirtylicious]

Originally Posted by TXCaddyKing

We need single payer with an option to buy private insurance. Everyone will be guaranteed a basic level of healthcare and those that can afford and want extra can get it. Your employer will not have to cover your insurance and theoretically could pay you more. Of course, we would have to pay more taxes, but then there could be price controls.

Love the reply about being thankful for living in Canada. All I ever hear is how Canadians come to the US to go to the doctor.

seriously? if anything private industry has shown is that it will anything and everything to cut their costs.

 

[utvol23]

This is a horrible decision and funny how obama said this wasn't a tax but the supreme court ruled it was.

This is going to devastate the healthcare industry and possibly bankrupt the country.

But what do I know about healthcare I'm just a dr.

 

[-Red-]

The overall health care bill as was passed (i.e., "ObamaCare") is relatively weak compared to what could have and should have been.  The ideal would have been a single-payer system.  Next best would have been a solid public option program.

However, overall I am glad that something was passed and that it has been upheld even if it's far from ideal...

 

[dj b milk]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Hmm... If the ACA is so great for insurers, why are major insurance stocks down? CI down 5%, WLP down 6%, AET down 4.5%, HUM down 3%, etc.

For anyone looking, scotusblog.com is the best resource for analysis.

THIS! Not to mention that the insurance companies have spent millions lobbying against the ACA. Insurers don't win here at all. The likely winners here at people who were previously uninsured and those with preexisting medical conditions. 

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Hmm... If the ACA is so great for insurers, why are major insurance stocks down? CI down 5%, WLP down 6%, AET down 4.5%, HUM down 3%, etc.

For anyone looking, scotusblog.com is the best resource for analysis.

A one day indicator of how investors view their stocks as opposed to long term financial gains by these corporations?  You are confusing investors with the corporations themselves.

One of two things will happen- 1. Insurance companies are going to make lots of money proving that their involvement (behind closed  doors and no transparency) was purely the greatest lobbyist act in the history of this country.  OR, 2. Our healthcare system is going to be crushed under government controls and expansions exposing this for the failure that it will be.

THIS! Not to mention that the insurance companies have spent millions lobbying against the ACA. Insurers don't win here at all. The likely winners here at people who were previously uninsured and those with preexisting medical conditions. 

The insurance companies helped write the bill.  And costs of those with pre-existing conditions is going to be passed off onto all people, thus another example as to why your healthcare cost will go up.

 

[dj b milk]

8tothe24 wrote:

The insurance companies helped write the bill.  And costs of those with pre-existing conditions is going to be passed off onto all people, thus another example as to why your healthcare cost will go up.



And why is that a bad thing? Why should we as a society not subsidize the healthcare costs of say, a part time working mother with a genetic heart condition? Doesn't she deserve to affordable health care?

 

[babylonzion]

a sad day for Americans

 

[8tothe24]

Originally Posted by dj B Milk

8tothe24 wrote:

The insurance companies helped write the bill.  And costs of those with pre-existing conditions is going to be passed off onto all people, thus another example as to why your healthcare cost will go up.



And why is that a bad thing? Why should we as a society not subsidize the healthcare costs of say, a part time working mother with a genetic heart condition? Doesn't she deserve to affordable health care?
So you wish to force your morality upon the nation?  So you probably think that abortions should be illegal as well.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by rashi

So ironic that a Bush appointee switched sides. 

Figures their both from the same camp after all.

 

[duba169]

Originally Posted by superblyTRIFE

Serious question here. To those opposed to the ACA, what is an alternative, realistic solution to getting our healthcare system back on track? I often hear opposition and criticism, but rarely a plan to fix an obviously broken system.

Fix medical malpractice and legislation costs. Don't charge massive amounts for drugs.