OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD : VOL. MOST. ANTICIPATED. PLAYOFFS. EVER?

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Tunnel Vision

http://www.latimes.com/sp...503,0,4815198,full.story

The Lakers didn't pound the ball down low very often, Andrew Bynum scoring eight points on three-for-eight shooting and Pau Gasol scoring 15 on five-for-10 shooting.

Bryant repeatedly said it wasn't his fault, pointing instead to the Lakers' reserves.

"It had nothing to do with me," he said. "I'm going to do what I do. I think the second unit, we've got to make a conscious effort to get the ball in to Pau and get the ball in to Andrew."

Kobe - 29 Field goals, 0 assist.

Took 11 more shots than Bynum & Gasol combined.

Made no field goals inside 11 feet either. As a leader, he can't totally deflect any blame.

Accountability?

 

This is a good example of why I brought up Westbrook the other day.  29-8-6 from a 22 year old.  I already knew he had a bad game.  And he did.  What I was getting at is I have spoken out on guys getting 29-8-6's before, and been called a hater up and down this board. 

  Soon as someone else does it, and I point it out, I get told the kid had a bad game.  No @#$%, so do other guys with 29-8-6's. 

You'll also notice I pointed out Boozer last week.  Decent stat lines, ZERO true effect on the games.  Once again, got argued against that Booz was pretty good in the playoffs.  Then I watch him play, and guess what, he looks terrible yet again.  A recurring theme with him.


Now what you have in the post I quoted here.  Bunch of 29 shots, and 0 assists remarks, (in other threads, not just this one)  lemme ask you, Kobe didn't play great last night? 

  He missed the last shot, that's it.  Shoulda made it, he didn't.  Point blank.  Hell, wasn't even his biggest mistake.  His biggest mistake was the pass/turnover with 30 seconds or whatever it was.  He had Artest open in the corner, woulda been an easier pass, but how was Ron playing in that game?  So he went to the guy he knows can hit a clutch shot, D-Fish.  He went to the well too many times with that one, and Terry stole the pass.  Bad play on Kobe.  The rest of the game, come on.  The guy was nailing shots at the magical 50% clip everybody so hype about, and he wasn't making layups to get that 50% either. 
 
Bynum said it himself after the game, his fault, he wasn't aggressive enough, he didn't make plays.  Pau, started good early, then went quiet for a while. 
The thing is, they don't know how to get themselves working.  Look at Kobe in the Shaq days.  AS SOON as Shaq headed to the bench, you KNEW what Kobe would do.  He would attack.  He would shoot like a gattling gun while Shaq was on the bench, it was "our offense" so to speak.  Well guys, when Kobe hits the bench, Pau and Bynum SHOULD be the guys getting the ball, and doing work. 
But that ain't happening. 
Brown shoots 20 footers, Barnes shot a few, Ron (don't even get me started on his night 

) Blake didn't set them up for any good shots.  That's a problem.  So in a sense, Kobe is right. 
Now, he stupid for saying it's not his fault, that don't do anybody any good, let Phil say those type things, but his point is correct.  When he sits, Blake should set the offense up and have the ball dumped down EVERY possession.  Pau and Bynum can certainly kick it out if need be and THEN Shannon can shoot a 20 footer, or Barnes can take a 3, or Ron can do Ron things.  Odom is also at fault for not helping set them up.  He certainly knows how to get them the ball, he can damn sure help them set up. 

There was a shot that I thought about putting on Twitter, but I was afraid PMatic would destroy the internet if I brought it up. 

  On a switch, Odom got Terry, I said Jason Terry, on his back, IN THE POST, and the result?  A 20 footer from Shannon Brown........  *RIP to PMatic's monitor right now*  There is no excuse for that.  If there was 1 on the shot clock, I would still tell Shannon to give it to Lamar in that situation. 

  At worst, they double to Odom, he kicks it, and we swing for an open shot, even if it's Brown, at least it's open.  What he shot was a long range shot with a hand in his face, and plenty on the shot clock. 

So yes, Kobe a fool for sayin not my fault.  But if you think he didn't play a great game last night, no matter the shots or the assists or whatever everybody else was doing, you're crazy.  They led the second half for 23:40 of the 24 minutes.  Their D didn't play well enough, the bench struggled, they let up in the 3rd quarter, Phil made some moves that were "strange" but he does things like that so not really sure why people wonder about him, and Dallas made plays, kept clawing, and stole a game.  Dirk was terrific. 
  

 

[tunnel vision]

My point was that it was a stupid thing to say. You cant dismiss responsibility like that as a leader.

We all know the media(and fans) would've been all over this had someone else said that. I'll just assume that because of past success he's immune to some criticism.

He played a great game yesterday, outside getting everyone involved in the offense.

 

[japanair21]

Now what you have in the post I quoted here. Bunch of 29 shots, and 0 assists remarks, (in other threads, not just this one) lemme ask you, Kobe didn't play great last night? smiley: nerd He missed the last shot, that's it. Shoulda made it, he didn't. Point blank. Hell, wasn't even his biggest mistake. His biggest mistake was the pass/turnover with 30 seconds or whatever it was. He had Artest open in the corner, woulda been an easier pass, but how was Ron playing in that game? So he went to the guy he knows can hit a clutch shot, D-Fish. He went to the well too many times with that one, and Terry stole the pass. Bad play on Kobe. The rest of the game, come on. The guy was nailing shots at the magical 50% clip everybody so hype about, and he wasn't making layups to get that 50% either.


Exactly. So what if Kobe had 0 assists. Me and CP were talking about it on Twitter, I was actually saying Kobe had the better of the two games. The guy was automatic for quite a while. To start the game he went like 4/4, then he torched Corey Brewer for like 8 straight, then in the fourth he hit some big shots. Sometimes, you just have to get your shot off. Kobe did.

How many of Kobe's shots were BAD shots for Kobe Bryant? Maybe 2? Most shots he takes would be bad shots for someone like Russell Westbrook. Someone could say the same thing about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk shoots about 90% of his shots unconventionally. Yesterday Dirk had to force maybe two shots. People really need to watch the games too. A lot of times FG% is dictated by when you got the ball in the shot clock. Sometimes you are forced to chuck it with 3 or less on the clock. Not saying about this game in general, but if people are gong to tear someone apart for their bad shooting game.

I put the loss last night for LA on their bench/Ron Ron/Pau. I don't even blame Bynum. Bynum did what he could. The guy only played 29 minutes. That's not enough IMO. He has to log around 35 if he's healthy. Blake was pretty inefficient, Barnes couldn't hit an open shot, and Brown made both smart and stupid plays. LO did what he could, but he was a bit too passive. And Pau choked the game away with as many TOs as Kobe.

Kobe took maybe 3 bad shots the entire game. One went off the glass without hitting anything else, and maybe one or two more, but 29 shots from one of the best scorers in NBA history? Better him than Russell Westbrook. He SHOULD have attacked the paint more, but maybe he was discouraged from our lengthy front line. You got Kidd hounding him, and then awaiting you? Dirk, Tyson, and Marion. Dirk's not a lockdown defender, but he's very active with his hands on help-defense.

On the other hand, Dirk and Tyson kept attacking the paint. A lot of times, they got their shot blocked and turned it over, but they kept on attacking regardless.

Also, I'm curious. What Chuck said before the game yesterday, yall think it's true?

Dirk at this point in his career is better than Kobe? Right now?

I would have never made the statement. I would have never thought it. I think it's kind of a good question though. Dirk has had a PHENOMENAL year with no signs of him slowing down. He got hobbled for a bit with an injury, but he still had a great year.

I wouldn't say Dirk is better than Kobe, but would anyone else?

 

[JD617]

Also, I'm curious. What Chuck said before the game yesterday, yall think it's true?

Dirk at this point in his career is better than Kobe? Right now?

I would have never made the statement. I would have never thought it. I think it's kind of a good question though. Dirk has had a PHENOMENAL year with no signs of him slowing down. He got hobbled for a bit with an injury, but he still had a great year.

I wouldn't say Dirk is better than Kobe, but would anyone else?

I think it's damn close either way. I sure as hell don't think it's far-fetched like Webber was making it seem.

 

[al3xis]

To me, Kobe is still somewhere in the top 3.. probably still 2 to be honest.

I dont think I'd put Dirk in that same category. Not too far off, though.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

That top 5 @!%@ is pointless to me, its pretty fluid on a game to game basis.  Kobe is still in that group of guys that can be your best player on a championship team, that's what matters.

And the 2 best players in the world, play on the same team imo.  Who the best guy on that team, well I think that is starting to slowly become clearer...

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

James is still the best player in the league. Wade hasn't exactly gotten better to eclipse James, nor has James regressed to lose that title. Being a better closer for your team doesn't automatically make you a better player. It does make you a better first option at the end of the games. 

Back to the blaming Kobe for the loss last night. NT and fans in general like to blame a single player for losses (word to Westbrook being brought up every time the Thunder lose and the magical blueprint in stopping him

), especially what they do individually on the offensive end. But end of the day, it is all about wins. And teams win games, not individual players. Some people expecting too much from Kobe these days. I'm a hater so I don't expect much from him in that sense.

 

[JD617]

That top 5 @!%@ is pointless to me, its pretty fluid on a game to game basis.  
It's not football. We have 82 games + playoffs to work with. It's only fluid on a game to game basis by people who overreact.

Who the best guy on that team, well I think that is starting to slowly become clearer...
We have 82 games' worth of evidence telling us that Lebron is better (not to mention previous years). Even if you only want to look at Miami's 6 playoff games, Lebron has been better in 3 of them and Wade has been better in 3 of them.  So I don't know how that is "slowly starting to become clearer."

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Game to game basis was obviously stretching it but it is pretty fluid though cause it largely depends who you have around you.  Look at Pierce in '08, he went from prolly not even a top 10 player in most peoples mind to a unquestionable top 3 guy in the world all cause of the addition of his new teammates.

And James was better this season, cause I missed that? People who try to make Wade into the second option are fooling themselves, there was no difference between those guys this year, it was 1A, 1B all season long, even when it came to missing crunch time shots it was balanced

.  I'll go back to '06 everyone though 'Bron was the better player, than the Heat won the 'chip and popular opinion started to shift toward Wade.  Wade got hurt, had a couple underwhelming seasons and 'Bron took off.  But even for the past 3 years James has been slightly better but to make it seem like it's an open and closed case is just not true.

2008–09	Miami	79	79	38.6	.491	.317	.765	5.0	7.5	2.2	1.3	30.2
2009–10	Miami	77	77	36.3	.476	.300	.761	4.8	6.5	1.8	1.1	26.6
2010–11	Miami	76	76	37.1	.500	.306	.758	6.4	4.6	1.5	1.1	25.5

[th=""]Year [/th][th=""]Team [/th][th=""]GP [/th][th=""]GS [/th][th=""]MPG [/th][th=""]FG% [/th][th=""]3P% [/th][th=""]FT% [/th][th=""]RPG [/th][th=""]APG [/th][th=""]SPG [/th][th=""]BPG [/th][th=""]PPG [/th]

2008–09	Cleveland	81	81	37.7	.489	.344	.780	7.6	7.2	1.7	1.1	28.4
2009–10	Cleveland	76	76	39.0	.503	.333	.767	7.3	8.6	1.6	1.0	29.7
2010–11	Miami	79	79	38.8	.510	.330	.759	7.5	7.0	1.6	.6	26.7

[th=""]Year [/th][th=""]Team [/th][th=""]GP [/th][th=""]GS [/th][th=""]MPG [/th][th=""]FG% [/th][th=""]3P% [/th][th=""]FT% [/th][th=""]RPG [/th][th=""]APG [/th][th=""]SPG [/th][th=""]BPG [/th][th=""]PPG [/th]

James has a statiscal edge and always will but its not like Wade has been shabby either, his 2008 season is good enough to win MVP basically any other year this decade.  James puts up numbers in a way that we haven't seen anybody do in a long, long time. But playoff basketball is defines the career of great players and it isn't a shut case that James is better than Wade when it matters. So far this playoffs, Wade has been Jordan, James has been Pippen.  Doesn't mean it will stay that way but I'm pretty sure opposing teams fear Wade going off more than 'Bron at this point.  Against great defenses Wade has a plethora of offensive moves in his aresenal that 'Bron hasn't shown/developed yet.  LeBron is a more dominant "in the flow of the game" type of player, but when it type to strap up and go to war...I still certainly still fear Wade more.

 

[hankmoody]

Paul Pierce was unquestionably a top 3 player?

This is news to me.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Paul Pierce was unquestionably a top 3 player?

This is news to me.

After playing as good D on an in his prime Kobe Bryant as I had ever seen with being the crunch-time scorer, yea I say for that season of his career he at least gets a claim to top 5.  Top 3 was pushing it, so I'll rescind that.

 

[japanair21]

When will NBA announce All-NBA teams?

 

[pandaskicks]

^ good question. What about MVP???

 

[bhzmafia14]

Originally Posted by PandasKicks

^ good question. What about MVP???

...

I'm ready to see the teams released as well. 

 

[CP1708]

airmaxpenny1 wrote:

---

LeBron is a more dominant "in the flow of the game" type of player, but when it type to strap up and go to war...I still certainly still fear Wade more.

And this is why I still go with Kobe over anybody.  I don't care about decimal point stats and all that.  I still think of game 5 in Boston when he looked like the best player I ever seen, or in Phoenix when he was hittin @#$% that shouldn't have even been attempted. 

 

You can make up all the stats you want, Bron isn't makin jumpers like that.  I don't know what Osh was thinkin when he claimed Bron has a better jumper then Wade, but whatever.  I still go Kobe, Wade, Bron, Durant as my pecking order.  I don't change based off a few games, or a month, or half a season, what have you. 


As for Pierce in 08, Posey had more to do with slowing up Kobe than Paul did, as well as Ray, and on offense, he was goin up against Vlad Radmonvic and Luke Walton. 

  Ariza wasn't healthy yet, and obviously we didn't have Ron.  So Paul played well, but I think the Cleveland series that year showed more about Pierce than the one against us.  He played well that year, but I dunno about top 5.  Guess I couldn't really complain if someone had him there for a stretch, but like I said, I don't really base off 2 month spells.  It would be like elevating Zach to the top of the PF food chain as of right now.  I can't do that.  Certainly Zach is elevating, and movin on up the charts so to speak, but can't just #1 him just like that. 

  Tell ya what though, he certainly makin me look at him differently, and I am taking notice. 

D Rose is the MVP, but never did I say "take Paul off the top of the food chain".  And look what Paul just did.  That's EXACTLY why I don't change my leaderboard after every game/series/season.  


I know no one will agree with me, that's fine, but that's how I look at stuff, not thru a calculator. 

  

 

[japanair21]

Rose
Wade
LeBron
Durant
Howard

Kobe
CP3
Dirk
Pierce
Amar'e

Rondo
Manu
Randolph
Love
Nene


I miss anyone?

 

[airmaxpenny1]

I'm sorry, I think it's a joke to call Kobe the best anymore, dudes prime ended 2 years ago, you wearing those Purple/Yellow shades.

 

[Humbled]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

I'm sorry, I think it's a joke to call Kobe the best anymore, dudes prime ended 2 years ago, you wearing those Purple/Yellow shades.

 

[bhzmafia14]

No Melo 

I think Kobe will find his way onto that 1st team. 

 I don't think Nene/Love makes it over Pau either. Will Duncan make the team? 

 

[al3xis]

Wade winning a total of 4 playoff games in 4 years has to be a pretty negative point in talking about his status.

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

No Melo 

I think Kobe will find his way onto that 1st team. 

 I don't think Nene/Love makes it over Pau either. Will Duncan make the team? 

Melo had a better year than Randolph or Love?

I think Love is going to make it onto that third team regardless. The hype for him was ridiculous.

If anyone replaces a F, it'd be him though.

Unless Pau is going to be a C, I don't see how Nene doesn't make it. Brook could have made an argument, averaged over 20, but he really kind of sucked.

I don't think TD makes it this year. If he does, he doesn't deserve it.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

I'm sorry, I think it's a joke to call Kobe the best anymore, dudes prime ended 2 years ago, you wearing those Purple/Yellow shades.

Fine and dandy, I'm pretty sure I didn't say he was still in his prime, don't mean he isn't still who he is.  Like I said, I am well aware of everyone thinking he's dead, hell Barkley been drivin that bus for goin on 3 years now, sooner or later he bound to be right, right?  

 

I trust that as the playoffs go on, he'll show more and more what he can still do.  Hell, one more stop last night, and today's convo's about him would be much different, don'tcha think?   *shrugs*

BHZ, I like Melo, I do, but his overall game leaves much to be desired imo.  Great player, certainly close, I just don't have him in my top 5.  Maybe eventually. 


Allen, Wade winning 4 games (in 4 years) with nobody is similar to Kobe winning 4 games (in 3 years) with nobody too, no? 
  

 

[bhzmafia14]

What about Aldridge? 
Its going to be a lot like the all-star teams. There are a good 4-5 guys that could make arguments being on that last team, but probably won't make it. You think Nene has been the 3rd best center all season? 

 

[pandaskicks]

MVP MVP !!!!!

 

[aepps20]

Does anyone else think Ron will focus on his music career during the lockout?