Official 2012 Boxing Thread: JMM/Manny IV - FOTY.

ShaunHillFTW49 said:
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Yet you forget about Quintero and PDL taking it to broner?
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Not at all. Never saw the Quintero fight, but PDL...ugly fight, close rounds, but I saw NOTHING that told me he won the fight outright. Could've been considered a DRAW, at the least.
 
That was a great fight. Ref was *** Guerrero was holding I think more than berto. Berto got the short end of the stick with his eye swelling up like that so early. It unfortunate. A rematch I think is more due that pacquio Marquez crap.
 
Guerrero did not hold more than Berto to me (and I think a lot of other folks). Berto spent most of the 12 rounds holding onto Guerrero. He can complain all he want, the ref did not lose him that fight.
 
Proshares said:
Guerrero did not hold more than Berto to me (and I think a lot of other folks). Berto spent most of the 12 rounds holding onto Guerrero. He can complain all he want, the ref did not lose him that fight.
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I felt like it was set early that was how the fight was going to be dictated. Both guys would scrap on the inside, hold & punch, clinch, blows behind the head, etc.

It was a great fight regardless. I was shocked to see Ghost take so many quality shots from Berto. This fight played out almost exactly the opposite of what I was expecting. I was expecting Berto to make it really raw and tough, and I was expecting it to not be so-much on the inside. I also didn't see Berto going down in the first and second, although that's on the ref. Holding & punching is upto the discretion of the ref.

As someone who lives near Gilroy (40 minutes away), I have always rooted for Robert. I was happy to see him win a fight like this. If it doesn't get him a big payday with Money or Manny, it'd be great to see him fight Berto again.

Inexcusable that a ref can't even stop two fighters at the end of the fight.

If the ref was going to sit there and warn for holding and punches to the back of the head, take away points if you think a boxer is taking advantage. If not, just stay out of the way. Berto was holding a lot, while Robert would either punch and hold, or get out of Berto's hold and let loose.

A beaten man like Berto is going to use excuses to an extent though, it's to be expected.
 
For all his flaws, when he's not fighting the Freddie Hernandez's of the boxing world, Berto's been involved in some entertaining scraps.
 
freakydestroyer said:
I must be the only one excited about Trout vs Cotto.
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GBP/Cotto have done a terrible job of promoting the fight, IMO.

Doesn't help that the televised undercard is rubbish. Danny Jacobs Vs. some Tomato can.
Lets be serious, Mayweather will fight Guerrero next. Easy pickings, easy money.
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Canelo.

Bigger fight, bigger money. For all of his potential, Canelo STILL isn't ready for Floyd. Of course, 24/7 will make him come off with a LEGIT chance...which people will eat up.
 
Caught the replay, great fight. But Guerrero doesn't have the hand speed or power to be effective against Mayweather if that's who he really wants next.

Ref was awful the entire fight, he reminded me of the ref in Mayweather/Castillo I. Terrible job all around, but not terrible enough to cost Berto the fight.
 
Guerrero will eat Broner you guys give him way too much credit am still not impress with the kid. Broner tries to hard cheesy rap lines.

At Berto fighting like Money & Broner in the beginning thought it was funny. Ghost boxing IQ really surprised me very crafty veteran. Ghost def has a chin taking vicious hits all night. it's time for GBP to feed him to the elite.

Btw Berto got the beat down of his life kinda justifies for him using Ped's lol
 
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blackngold1z said:
ref was basura, but did not effect the outcome.
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THIS

berto doesnt use his talent AT ALL, he doesnt box outside and use his hand speed and quickness AT ALL. he wants to brawl all the time and you see this happen just like the oritz fight. he is what he is at this point not sure a new trainer can even train him

he came out in using floyds style but didnt move his head or body so how stupid was that.
 
jay23oth said:
Guerrero will eat Broner you guys give him way too much credit am still not impress with the kid. Broner tries to hard cheesy rap lines.
 
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broner is fast and fights better on the inside then berto does. he is not going to let guerroero body him around the whole ring like berto did. and broner always throws WAY more punchs then berto does
 
Son it looked so horrible. When the fight started and I saw his new fighting style I said "Did this dude just did this?"
 
Come to think of it. The 2010 Shane Mosley probably would've taken away Berto's 0 at the time.

This may sound strange, but I think Berto would have much better success if he imitates Pacquiao's style rather than Mayweather's. He has no defense and probably never will, so he mind as well just use his speed and power to overwhelm his opponent.
 
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Weekend wrap up.

A roundup of the past week's notable boxing results from around the world:


Saturday at Ontario, Calif.
Robert Guerrero W12 Andre Berto
Retains an interim welterweight title
Scores: 116-110 (three times)
Records: Guerrero (31-1-1, 18 KOs); Berto (28-2, 22 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: This is about as good as it gets -- a tremendous action fight with a hefty dose of drama, one that will clearly be in the discussion for fight of the year. Guerrero, 29, of Gilroy, Calif., and Berto, 29, of Winter Haven, Fla., both had designs on winning this high-profile main event and then moving into an even bigger fight -- a potential showdown with Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 2013.

Guerrero, fighting as a welterweight for only the second time, got the job done in a big way in a brutal rumble. The former featherweight, junior lightweight and interim lightweight titleholder jumped up two divisions to welterweight in July while also returning from a 15-month layoff following surgery on his torn rotator cuff to put on a strong performance in a decision win against hard puncher Selcuk Aydin. That win netted Guerrero an interim belt, which he was defending for the first time. Berto, who has now lost two of his past three fights, is a former two-time welterweight titlist who was coming off a 14-month layoff because of a torn biceps, followed by a positive steroid test that forced the cancellation of a June rematch with Victor Ortiz. Berto wasn't suspended, and the California State Athletic Commission said the positive test was from contamination, even though there is wide skepticism about those findings.

Nonetheless, Berto was licensed, signed to face Guerrero and immediately found himself in trouble as he got knocked down in each of the first two rounds. In the first round, Guerrero, a southpaw, wobbled him with a straight left hand, and Berto's legs betrayed him. Then Guerrero got the knockdown off a series of left hands while holding on to Berto with his right hand, a move that referee Lou Moret, who had a bad night, let Guerrero get away with. Both fighters fouled throughout the fight: Berto held and rabbit-punched, and Guerrero held and hit. It was a bruising fight, but Guerrero dished out way more rough stuff than Berto did.

Guerrero had another big round in the second, dropping Berto again -- this time with a left uppercut -- and also badly damaging his right eye, which blew up and began to close after it was nailed by a left hand. Berto was falling way behind but was still as game as ever. They fought their hearts out in a thrilling, grinding and physical fight that took its toll on both men.

The seventh round was one of the rounds of the year, as Berto was hurt by left uppercuts but rebounded to land hard right uppercuts. Guerrero, supposedly the smaller man, showed a tremendous chin. He was the one hurting Berto at the end of the excellent round, after which Berto wobbled back to his corner while the crowd of about 4,500 at the Citizens Business Bank Arena cheered the fabulous action. Berto, whose eyes were both puffy slits by the ninth round, hung in. He messed up Guerrero's left eye and finished strong, but Guerrero's big early lead was too great to overcome.

Because Berto has been in dramatic action bouts, he will be back in a high-profile fight, but after this loss, it won't be against Mayweather. Guerrero, however, has a real chance to cash in, perhaps as soon as his next appearance, assuming Mayweather takes his annual fight in the first half of 2013. Guerrero also showed that regardless of what weight classes he once fought in, he is a legitimate welterweight -- and one with a nasty streak when he needs to show it. He took it to Berto like few thought he would. Whether Guerrero gets the Mayweather fight or not, there ought to be a rematch of this terrific battle down the road.


Keith Thurman TKO4 Carlos Quintana
Junior middleweights
Records: Thurman (19-0, 18 KOs); Quintana (29-4, 23 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Thurman, 24, of Clearwater, Fla., is a vicious puncher who talks a good game and is a crowd pleaser, but he had done nothing to earn two fights on a major cable network this year. But that doesn't matter, not when you have powerful manager Al Haymon in your corner, as Thurman does. Haymon used his enormous leverage to force-feed Thurman against the undistinguished Orlando Lora, whom Thurman blitzed in six rounds in July. At least this time, Thurman took a bit of a step up in competition against faded former welterweight titlist Carlos Quintana, 36, of Puerto Rico.

Quintana's previous losses had come by knockout to Miguel Cotto, Paul Williams and Andre Berto in welterweight title fights. In May, Quintana, a southpaw, did a nice job of knocking out Deandre Latimore in the fifth round on the undercard of Cotto's loss to Floyd Mayweather Jr. But Thurman is bigger, stronger and younger than Latimore, whose chin is worse than Quintana's. Quintana hoped a victory would put him into the sweepstakes for a spring fight with titlist Canelo Alvarez, but instead he got crushed.

Thurman dropped Quintana to his knees with a left hook to the body late in the first round, and Quintana barely beat the count. It was just a matter of time before Thurman got rid of him. Quintana had nothing to offer after the knockdown and was mainly trying to survive. He managed to do that until the fourth round, when Thurman rocked him with several hard shots. Thurman landed multiple left hooks and clean right hands and had Quintana staggering all over the ring and basically out on his feet. After Thurman landed one final crushing overhand right, referee Jack Reiss stepped in to stop the bout at 2 minutes, 19 seconds.

It was a solid win for Thurman, who fights in a strong weight class and could find himself in a bigger fight soon. Quintana, best known for his upset decision win to claim a welterweight belt against Williams in 2008 (only to be knocked out in the first round of their immediate rematch) announced his retirement after the fight.


Jermell Charlo W10 Dashon Johnson
Junior middleweights
Scores: 100-89, 99-90, 98-91
Records: Charlo (19-0, 9 KOs); Johnson (13-9-3, 4 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Charlo, 22, of Houston, is a blue-chip prospect with a strong amateur background. He has moved slowly but steadily since turning pro as a teenager in 2007. He was coming off two impressive knockouts wins in a row: a third-round destruction of Chris Chatman in March and a fifth-round knockout of Denis Douglin in June, both of which were a step up in competition for Charlo. Johnson isn't at their level, and although Charlo couldn't record a third consecutive knockout, he routed Johnson, 24, of Escondido, Calif., who lost his fifth fight in a row (all by decision).

Charlo stuffed a stiff jab in Johnson's face throughout the fight, smacked him with right hands and beat him to the punch round after round. As if Johnson wasn't losing badly enough, referee David Denkin docked a point from him for throwing Charlo to the ground in the seventh round. It was a flagrant foul and Johnson could have been disqualified. Fortunately, Charlo was OK. But he obviously wasn't happy about the foul and hammered Johnson for the rest of the round.


Randy Caballero TKO3 Rigoberto Casillas
Junior featherweights
Records: Caballero (17-0, 9 KOs); Casillas (8-8-1, 6 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Caballero, 22, of Coachella, Calif., is one of Golden Boy's top prospects. He was a 2008 U.S. national amateur champion who couldn't qualify for the 2008 Olympics because he was too young. As a pro, he is developing nicely, although he wasn't tested by Casillas, 26, of Mexico, who lost his second fight in a row and sixth in his past seven bouts. Casillas was simply overmatched by Caballero, who is pretty polished for such a young kid.

Caballero battered Casillas in the second round, after which referee Jack Reiss told Casillas' corner that he was ready to stop the bout unless he saw something from their fighter. Caballero smashed Casillas throughout the third round, rocking him with all sorts of clean head shots and nearly knocking him down. Reiss could have stopped the fight numerous times in the round, but he waited until consulting with the ringside doctor before calling it off while Casillas was still on his stool after the round.


Dominic Breazeale TKO2 Mike Bissett
Heavyweights
Records: Breazeale (2-0, 2 KOs); Bissett (1-1, 0 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Breazeale, 27, of Anaheim, Calif., was the 2012 U.S. Olympic super heavyweight. After turning pro along with four of his teammates on Nov. 9, he needed only 66 seconds to knock out Curtis Tate. Returning for his second pro bout just two weeks later, Breazeale dropped Bissett, 28, of Biloxi, Miss., twice in the first round and twice more in the second round before referee David Denkin stopped the fight at 1 minute, 17 seconds of the second.



Saturday at Manchester, England

Vyacheslav Senchenko KO9 Ricky Hatton
Welterweights
Records: Senchenko (33-1, 22 KOs); Hatton (45-3, 32 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: The stage was set for a glorious comeback for Hatton, but it wasn't meant to be. The 34-year-old former junior welterweight champion and welterweight titleholder -- a beloved figure in England, especially in his hometown of Manchester -- retired 3½ years ago after getting knocked out cold with one punch by Manny Pacquiao. The loss turned Hatton's life upside down. The story has been well-chronicled as he spiraled into drug use and heavy drinking. Hatton tried to kill himself multiple times, battled depression, anxiety and ballooning to 210 pounds. His life was a mess, and he was wracked by guilt for letting so many of his fans down and also was upset that the lasting image of his career would be of him flat on his back.

Then, about five months ago, when he was trying to get his life in order and was in the gym training young fighters, Hatton, who stopped Hall of Famer Kostya Tszyu in the 11th round in 2005 in Manchester to win the junior welterweight world title, began to get himself in shape and decided to launch a comeback. Could he rise again? Although he was coming back from a long layoff and so many personal problems, Hatton picked a legitimate opponent to face right out of the gate. Not wanting a soft touch, he selected Senchenko, 35, of Ukraine, a fighter with a good amateur background whose only loss came in April, when he lost his 147-pound world title via cut-induced ninth-round knockout to Paulie Malignaggi in Ukraine.

With more than 20,000 of his fans singing "There's Only One Ricky Hatton," Hatton started fast. He looked like he was in excellent shape, and he set a blazing pace. He applied relentless pressure to Senchenko, who has a counterpunching style and isn't all that busy. Hatton hurt him in the second round with a body shot, had him wobbly in the fourth round and was generally kicking his rear end in a one-sided fight to that point. But Hatton began to tire a bit, and the steady Senchenko slowly worked himself back into the fight.

Senchenko bruised Hatton's face, especially his right eye and cheekbone. He countered nicely, and the tide began to turn in about the seventh round. As good as Hatton's offense was in the fight, his defense was as spotty as ever. Hatton, feeling the punches Senchenko began to land and tiring from fighting at such a hard pace, began to fade even though he was still clearly winning the scheduled 10-rounder. In the ninth round, Senchenko found a home for a brutal left hook to the liver. Hatton immediately went down to his knees and seemed frozen from the punch. He couldn't beat the count from referee Victor Loughlin, who waved off the fight at 2 minutes, 52 seconds.

Hatton was ahead 78-74, 77-6, 77-76 at the time of the stoppage when, suddenly, a joyous crowd thinking it was about to celebrate a return for the ages was stunned. Had Hatton won, he would have been lined up to challenge Paulie Malignaggi, whom he had stopped in the 11th round of a 2008 junior welterweight championship fight. Malignaggi, who was ringside, watched his seven-figure payday go down the drain.

After the loss -- a surprise considering how well Hatton had fought for most of the fight -- Hatton announced that he was retiring again, this time for good. His fans, the most loyal in the world, serenaded him with "There's Only One Ricky Hatton" even after the knockout, and Hatton was very emotional in his postfight interview. It was gripping stuff, straight from his heart. You have to hope he can keep his life together after this loss, one he shouldn't be ashamed of. He didn't win, but he made it back from the depths, and for that he should be proud. He came back and put up a great fight and should walk away with his head held high for everything he accomplished and all that he has meant to boxing.


Martin Murray TKO6 Jorge Navarro
Wins a vacant interim middleweight title
Records: Murray (25-0-1, 11 KOs); Navarro (12-1, 10 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Martin, 30, of England, fought to a draw in a world title fight with Felix Sturm in December, and then was offered a June 16 shot at the belt then held by Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. in El Paso, Texas. But because of Murray's criminal past, he couldn't secure a visa in time to come to the United States for the fight. Andy Lee got the Chavez bout instead, and Murray wound up fighting and defeating a lesser opponent on the same night in England. That paved the way for this fight for an interim belt.

Murray was matched with the inexperienced Navarro, 27, of Venezuela, who had fought 12 nobodies in six years as a pro (fighting exclusively in Panama and Venezuela) before being handed this wholly unwarranted opportunity. Navarro's 12-0 record coming into the fight and his power (based on 10 knockouts in those 12 fights) looked good on paper, but his opponents were terrible -- a combined 71-112. He had fought only two opponents with records north of .500. So it was no surprise that when Navarro fought a legitimate opponent for the first time, Murray dominated him in every way possible.

Navarro didn't even appear to know a proper fighting stance and went down from a clean right hand in the sixth round, touching both of his gloves to the canvas. Murray was close to ending the affair after the knockdown as he smacked Navarro around for the rest of the round. Murray cut Navarro under his left eye in the fourth round and then dropped him again with a right hand in the sixth. Navarro beat the count, but Murray hammered him with a series of right hands until Navarro's corner waved the white towel and referee Giuseppe Quartarone stepped in at 1 minute, 40 seconds. A good performance for Murray, but one that came against an opponent who was way out of his depths.


Scott Quigg TKO6 Rendell Munroe
Wins a vacant interim junior featherweight title
Scores: 97-91, 96-92 (twice)
Records: Quigg (25-0-1, 18 KOs); Munroe (24-3-1, 10 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: In June, Quigg, 24, of England, and Munroe, 32, also of England, met for this vacant interim belt, but the fight was cut short. It ended in a third-round technical draw after Munroe suffered a terrible cut over his right eye from an accidental head clash and couldn't continue. Neither fighter held much of an edge the first time around, but this time it was all Quigg, a quality prospect who was the younger, fresher, quicker man.

Quigg consistently beat Munroe to the punch throughout the fight and battered him to the body. Round after round, Quigg broke down Munroe, a southpaw, and judging from the fighters' body language, Quigg just wanted the win more. He set a quick pace, and Munroe -- the former European champion who lost a world title fight to Toshiaki Nishioka by decision in 2010 in Japan -- could not get off. It was all Quigg, who put an exclamation mark on his dominance in the sixth round when he dropped Munroe twice. First, Quigg landed a left hook to the body that dropped Munroe to a knee. Later in the round, it was a right hand to the body that floored him again, and referee Terry O'Connor stopped it at 2 minutes, 37 seconds.

Quigg, who looked very, very good, will have a lot of people throughout the United Kingdom talking about a future showdown with fellow top prospect Carl Frampton.



Saturday at Kunming, China

Xiong Zhao Zhong W12 Javier Martinez
Wins a vacant strawweight title
Scores: 119-110, 116-114, 116-112
Records: Zhong (20-4-1, 11 KOs); Martinez (13-4-2, 6 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Boxing has gained popularity in China since 2008, when the Olympics were held in Beijing and the Chinese team won its first boxing gold medal. It seemed as though it was only a matter of time before the world's most populous country would see interest grow in the pro game and for there to eventually be crowned a world titleholder from China. It finally happened Saturday as the 30-year-old Zhong outpointed Mexico's Martinez to become the first Chinese fighter to win a world title -- the 105-pound belt that Kazuto Ioka vacated earlier this year.

The Philippines' Denver Cuello, who was in the WBC's mandatory position to fight for the vacant belt, took a step-aside fee to allow Zhong the opportunity to fight for the title. The WBC, like everyone else in the boxing business, sees riches in China and desperately wants to penetrate the market, and Zhong could be the ticket.

The bout was fought at a quick and entertaining pace. Martinez was in the fight early on, but Zhong took over midway through the fight and was the clear points winner -- although the 119-110 scorecard didn't seem to reflect how competitive the fight was. Zhong supposedly will next defend against Cuello.



Saturday at Ciudad Juarez, Mexico

Fernando Montiel W12 Giovanni Caro
Junior featherweights
Scores: 115-112, 114-112, 114-113
Records: Montiel (49-4-2, 37 KOs); Caro (24-12-4, 19 KOs)
Rafael's remarks: Montiel, 33, of Mexico, has won world titles in three weight classes -- flyweight, junior bantamweight and bantamweight -- and now is on track to at least challenge for a title at junior featherweight after winning his third fight in a row. But it wasn't easy getting there, as he struggled to edge Caro, who gave as good as he got in a rough fight for both guys. Montiel, who called out titleholder Abner Mares afterward, wound up with cuts and bruises around his eyes. Caro, 29, of Mexico, has lost two of his past three bouts and four of six, including a junior featherweight world title bout to Takalani Ndlovu in October 2011.
 
Would have been a much better fight if berto fought the fight like he did rounds 4 - 12. That was a real grimey fight though..
 
The Berto fight was a great fight. And i do think the ref was complete crap. I would like to say it didn't effect the outcome but it seemed berto was getting hit in the back of the head a lot and as soon as he got fed up and started doing it back he got warned. So he really couldn't do too much during those inside exchanges other then take a ton of body shots and try to create some space for an uppercut to fit in. Also at the end of the fight berto got rocked clean in the face 2-3 times after the bell. What was the ref doing? The doctor in a sport coat had to step in and tell Guerrero the fight was over and to stop punching him in the face. That could have been ugly if he would have knocked berto out after the bell

But his defense in the first 2 rounds was hilarious. He ATE straight left after straight left and was like oh eff this im just gonna brawl now this ain't working lol.

Guerrero vs Broner would be very interesting. I only say that because i thought (don't know if its true) berto was a decent puncher. And Guerrero walked through a bunch of clean shots right on the chin. I think broner would win but if it went the full time i think there would be a chance Guerrero could do some damage. But Broners body work in his last fight was impressive. Just an absolute beating. And Broner is faster then berto and as said fights on the inside better too.
 
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