Official 2017 Boxing Thread: 12/16 - Billy Joe Saunders vs. David Lemieux HBO
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Bobby Layne,
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Truth
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Crawford needs to fight Rances Barthelemy next if he stays at 140
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Lake Shore Drive
formerly slp product
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That'll make the cypher complete.
Overall we could say it was a decent year with some of the fights we got.
Overall we could say it was a decent year with some of the fights we got.
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Because Vasyl deserves it. He's the most technically gifted boxer in this current generation. The Rembrandt of fighting. His footwork is a joy to watch. Lomachenko is so good at offering a vast array of mixed offense and defense. He's dismantling opponents with ease. I give him favored status in a potential bout with Rigo. Would also like to see "Hi-Tech" avenge his lone pro loss to Salido. Dirty fight and seemingly intentional low blows.Atlas still got Loma #1 P4P on his list
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So if level of competition is a major factor in determining a fighters place on the P4P list then why is that overlooked for certain fighters but not others?
I've seen many ITT claim Bud isn't even in the top 3 (even after last nights performance) because he hasn't fought anybody they deem "top level".
What does one need to do to move up that list?
He fought Burns, Gamboa, Beltran, Dulorme, Jean, Lundy, Postol, Molina, Diaz, and Indongo consecutively. Beat them all.
Being undefeated don't matter, dominating opponents don't matter, unifying belts don't matter, defending those belts don't matter either apparently.
I've seen many ITT claim Bud isn't even in the top 3 (even after last nights performance) because he hasn't fought anybody they deem "top level".
What does one need to do to move up that list?
He fought Burns, Gamboa, Beltran, Dulorme, Jean, Lundy, Postol, Molina, Diaz, and Indongo consecutively. Beat them all.
Being undefeated don't matter, dominating opponents don't matter, unifying belts don't matter, defending those belts don't matter either apparently.
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if anything loma should not be top 3... very good fighter but 10 fights is not enough to be that high on the list...
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All of that sounds lovely, really, but it's still premature and "deserves it" if we're being real is a major stretch.
With that said, I'll be at MSG on 12/2 if that really goes down and THAT is the kind of fight that puts him closer to the top of the P4P list.
Walters fight probably put him in my Top5 because I do also appreciate how talented he is.
Atlas just pushing ESPNs new poster boy.
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Not sure I have Bud at #2 but still 
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Honestly the only person people questioned if he could win was Gambia when he was fresh on the scene. The rest are tomatoes cans. Lundy? Really talk about someone who got exposed early.
Bud is a top 3 fighter not solely because he is undefeated but bc of how he does it. I wanna see him fight loma.
Rigo vs loma sounds interesting on paper, thats it
Ward has to be #1 not loma at this point. Went from small unknown to cleaning out the division to fighting the most feared power puncher and dominating in the 2nd fight.
Bud is a top 3 fighter not solely because he is undefeated but bc of how he does it. I wanna see him fight loma.
Rigo vs loma sounds interesting on paper, thats it
Ward has to be #1 not loma at this point. Went from small unknown to cleaning out the division to fighting the most feared power puncher and dominating in the 2nd fight.
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It's jacked up that I can't change my sig now!!!
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Rigo vs Loma in December
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The things said in this thread amaze me sometime.
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Ward is easily #1, Teddy is out of his mind. Best resume in boxing right now hands down. There's no more questions to be asked about Ward, Lomachenko and Crawford though not so much.
I want to see Crawford at 147. If he runs through any top guys there he's official. I think he has the talent to beat everybody except Errol but he has to prove it. I also want to see how he does it. And please don't put him up against Broner or Guerrero or anybody like that. He looks like a fighter at his peak right now, I wanna see him fight someone that could actually challenge him.
And I want to see Lomachenko vs. Rigo and Mikey.
I want to see Crawford at 147. If he runs through any top guys there he's official. I think he has the talent to beat everybody except Errol but he has to prove it. I also want to see how he does it. And please don't put him up against Broner or Guerrero or anybody like that. He looks like a fighter at his peak right now, I wanna see him fight someone that could actually challenge him.
And I want to see Lomachenko vs. Rigo and Mikey.
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I'm not sure where I'd put him but Thurman feels very underrated at times.
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I thought it was ridiculous at first. But after thinking about it for a while the gap between them is not that wide. I don't think Spence can beat him right now but in the near future it is very feasible.
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Come on...
Come on...
I got Crawford winning.... but I'd put money on Mikey. (Depending on the over/under ofcourse)
But I'm sure Mikey would be a big underdog so I'd put money on him.
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I said it after the postol fight last year that it's hard for me to see Bud ever losing a pro fight even at 147 and I still feel the same way. I don't remember the last time he's even lost a round in a fight. I'd favor him vs anyone. Dude is special.
I like Bud... but right now, I got Thurman, Spence and even Brook over him.
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He is. Spence is the only guy that'd I'd pick over him at 147. Thurman just had the bad luck of being overshadowed by Floyd and Manny on the come up, and then having Spence and Brook (and maybe Crawford now) arrive once those guys dropped off. I don't think there was ever a real period where he was considered the man at 147. Also being in trouble vs. Collazo didn't help. But he's definitely nice though.
I like Mikey, and I think he's a good test for Lomachenko because of his size and power, but Crawford is a different level. Bigger, stronger, faster, longer, hits harder, plus a great in ring iq. Mikey would be the underdog for a reason.
Gamboa took multiple rounds off him, buzzed him too. Dulorme won some feel out rounds before he got KO'd. Outside of those though nah, haven't seen him in trouble. He'll get challenged for sure at 147 though.
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It's not meant to sound lovely, simply making the case in defense of Atlas's P4P ranking. I disagree that discussing Vasyl as potential #1 is premature at all. We're talking about an Olympic gold medalist with perhaps the most decorated amateur boxing career in history. 396-1, with his lone loss twice avenged as most know. More importantly, dissecting Lomachenko's tape shows a work of art. He's so technically sound, it's incredible. The footwork, fight IQ and overall ring generalship. Another reason it's not premature, Vasyl is constantly and actively accelerating his career by asking for tough fights and the best competition around. He was practically begging Walters to sign the bout. Now it's on to Rigo.
Walters seemed most amazed with Lomachenko's defense. He admitted post-fight throwing and not being able to land. Vasyl switches gears so quickly and smoothly, like a matrix to solve.
I have no problem with others arguing for Ward, especially after he validated the first Kovalev victory with conviction. Or Crawford for that matter, who was a notoriously slow starter, which hurt him early against Dulorme. Kudos for how easily a traditionally orthodox fighter switches stances freely and lands power shots comfortably from southpaw. I don't buy the reduced level of competition argument against "Bud." Showed a legitimate chin against Gamboa because he was touched up a bit in that bout. The Postol win really caught my attention and there are certainly larger fights on the horizon for Crawford to further prove himself.
Caught your note about Thurman and I align with your train of thought on that one. Perhaps it's because he's no longer securing show-stopping KOs as frequently. However, in contrast to that, I quite enjoy Keith's evolution from a branded power puncher to complete boxer utilizing a stiff jab.
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We can agree to disagree because I believe putting him #1 P4P is premature.
Especially with the body of work some of the other players out there have.
But I can see you are quite enamored with him.
Olympics and amateurs have nothing to do with P4P in the professional ranks IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I genuinely like Loma and very much appreciate his skill set, but I need to see that sustained over time against the best his division or any division close to it has to offer before I put him anywhere near #1 P4P. Which is why I think most have Ward firmly positioned there.
Marriaga wasn't it. And it seemed like they were dancing around Rigo until I think they saw there was an actual demand for it. Son was getting the "cherry" treatment on IG
So hope it gets 100% confirmed.
Especially with the body of work some of the other players out there have.
But I can see you are quite enamored with him.
Olympics and amateurs have nothing to do with P4P in the professional ranks IMO.
Don't get me wrong, I genuinely like Loma and very much appreciate his skill set, but I need to see that sustained over time against the best his division or any division close to it has to offer before I put him anywhere near #1 P4P. Which is why I think most have Ward firmly positioned there.
Marriaga wasn't it. And it seemed like they were dancing around Rigo until I think they saw there was an actual demand for it. Son was getting the "cherry" treatment on IG
So hope it gets 100% confirmed.
