- Feb 22, 2007
- 20,245
- 4,232
You know Tight Ends weren't used like that bad then
The point is Edmunds was one of the better ones
The point is Edmunds was one of the better ones
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You know Tight Ends weren't used like that bad then
The point is Edmunds was one of the better ones
You know Tight Ends weren't used like that bad then
The point is Edmunds was one of the better ones
Exactly, they weren't really offensive threats, hence little help for any QB in the big picture
Please don't use Pro Bowls in arguments btw. Ryan Mathews, Jermaine Gresham, Matt Cassel, Dwayne Bowe, Marcedes Lewis, Vince Young, Ronnie Brown, Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, Marion Barber, Miles Austin, Doug Martin and CJ Spiller are all Pro Bowlers.
He had just as much of a supporting cast as many other great quarterbacks
Great post back there, CP. Took the time to read it and it's the same scramble that I have when trying to evaluate QB's. The information is a tangled web of variables and it's impossible to arrive at one formula that organizes everything. Basically, everyone settles on a few principles that outweigh others. Things such as stats or titles are a big part of lots of people's argument, but at this point, I can only use it as a part of the equation. These days, I trust my instincts and rely on the eye test. Obviously, that's a luxury that I don't have for quarterbacks going back to a certain point. It's all fun to argue, but the eye test still needs to be put into context and perspective. It's fun to talk about, but obviously the masses won't ever agree. I think that's why it's so intriguing to hear everyone's "formula" and reasonings/counter arguments.
Great post back there, CP. Took the time to read it and it's the same scramble that I have when trying to evaluate QB's. The information is a tangled web of variables and it's impossible to arrive at one formula that organizes everything. Basically, everyone settles on a few principles that outweigh others. Things such as stats or titles are a big part of lots of people's argument, but at this point, I can only use it as a part of the equation. These days, I trust my instincts and rely on the eye test. Obviously, that's a luxury that I don't have for quarterbacks going back to a certain point. It's all fun to argue, but the eye test still needs to be put into context and perspective. It's fun to talk about, but obviously the masses won't ever agree. I think that's why it's so intriguing to hear everyone's "formula" and reasonings/counter arguments.
He had just as much of a supporting cast as many other great quarterbacks
Please look up how many HALL OF FAME players he played with in his career, vs Peyton, Brady, Joe, Kelly, Aikman, Favre, etc.
Do that for me real quick, I know you got google right there, open a tab up real quick.
elpablo21 i don't mean to use that a sole reason in judging a QB...but how can you discount it so much? hell, it's the reason most people have Joe Cool as GOAT...his performance in big games (not saying I do, but so many football people do)
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe 2h2 hours ago
Tom Brady completed 22 of 22 passes for 209 yards and 3 TDs when he unloaded the ball within 2 seconds of the snap vs. the Ravens. Insane.
Anyone ever get the sense that Peyton is alone on offense?
I'm not talking about his weapons and such, but more of the behind the scenes stuff. I wish I could be in the quarterback room and offensive meetings with Peyton dating back to maybe his 3th to 6th year in the league. I get the sense that he's wearing two hats all the time and it's too much. QB and OC. I don't think any one man or QB can do it on his own and it might be an excuse, but I feel like it's a big part of why he's struggled so tremendously in the postseason.
At a certain point, his OC's became nothing more than a person of input, but after the game plan, the execution all starts and goes through Peyton. We already know he's one of the only ones that literally look to call or change every play at the line every pre-snap. He's always wanted it done his way. It looks like it goes beyond just rapport with receivers and RB alignment and what not. He knows so much about the game that he's trying to dictate where each individual on offense needs to be all between the whistles as the play clock winds down.
If he lessened his load I think he would be better, but I'm not so sure Peyton can play without having so much control. He's too far invested into this style that he's become his own worst enemy. Doing too much and in the NFL, it doesn't matter who you are, you'll get beat.
That might be wrong, but I think there's at least some grain of truth to this and it's definitely a sense I get when watching him on the sidelines and on the field, both pre and post snap.
Chester, DMX, for those of you begging to know what Ferrell Edmunds is about (and I know we all are), he played 66 games in Miami in 5 seasons. He had 1,600 yards and 10 touchdowns in his 5 seasons. 33 catches his rookie year, a career high for him. 117 total.
Dan Marino probably had nothing to do with him making those 2 "pro bowls."
He had just as much of a supporting cast as many other great quarterbacks
Please look up how many HALL OF FAME players he played with in his career, vs Peyton, Brady, Joe, Kelly, Aikman, Favre, etc.
Do that for me real quick, I know you got google right there, open a tab up real quick.
Peyton- 0 probably will be 1 or 2
Brady- 0 probably Randy Moss maybe Gronk?
Marino-2
Montana- 4
Kelly-4
Aikman- 4
Favre- 1
Elway-2
He had just as much of a supporting cast as many other great quarterbacks
Please look up how many HALL OF FAME players he played with in his career, vs Peyton, Brady, Joe, Kelly, Aikman, Favre, etc.
Do that for me real quick, I know you got google right there, open a tab up real quick.
Peyton- 0 probably will be 1 or 2
Brady- 0 probably Randy Moss maybe Gronk?
Marino-2
Montana- 4
Kelly-4
Aikman- 4
Favre- 1
Elway-2
Chester, DMX, for those of you begging to know what Ferrell Edmunds is about (and I know we all are), he played 66 games in Miami in 5 seasons. He had 1,600 yards and 10 touchdowns in his 5 seasons. 33 catches his rookie year, a career high for him. 117 total.
Dan Marino probably had nothing to do with him making those 2 "pro bowls."
You know damn well those went horrible numbers for Tight End in that time period
Edmunds gets injured
Who do the Dolphins happen to fall into Keith Jackson!
Arguably the best tight end of the era
Keith Jackson was 3 time All Pro up to then and in his prime at 27
Doesnt fit the narrative of Marino had no help though