Quentin Tarantino's Django Unchained (a Spaghetti Western) scheduled for release Christmas 2012

DubA169 said:
I agree with u on the many different reactions
I see it primarily as s a buddy cop western movie.
I have a strong feeling I will enjoy it more the second time when I'm alone. People were hysterically laughing too much IMO. Distracted me. And some laughs came at some inappropriate times. But it's all subjective.
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That's why I'll wait until the blu-ray drops to see it...sometimes the audience can completely skew my viewing experience. 
 
Which one?
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The first video that you posted.  For most of the film Django wasn't even the main actor, it was moreso the white "Dr. King"
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.  Also, there's a reason why Django wasn't even the one that killed Candie, just like there's a reason Candie did the so called breakdown of the black mindset when he said blacks have something in their brain that tells them to be more submissive than whites.  I'm sure most the audience either didn't catch that nor paid attention to it based upon some of the statements in this thread.  This movie was okay, but let's not make this movie to be more or something other that what it is.  Django Unchained is NOT this generations Roots nor should it be compared to it in anyway. 

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As well as the female black slaves saying "Big Daddy". 
 
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Basically I agree with Deuce King and Tariq Nasheed. It is crazy how people are really trying to be stuck on the N word when that really isn't the issue as well. Its more to that especially how Tarantino has gone on N word rants like in Pulp Fiction. I get its a movie its supposed to be art...but if you feel that something more just might not be behind it is foolish to me.

In this thread and in life I just feel Black people run to the aid of Whites way too easy to defend their so called racial views to not being "racist" and quick to **** on a man like Spike Lee when Spike has always had a problem with Tarantino and not this movie in particular. Just disgust me how many are saying Spike jealous, irrelevant, etc are Black.

Just rubs me the wrong way. I know many don't agree but that is not the way I was brought up. Too many Blacks rather have a White savior than one of their own that looks like them.
 
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Young ThunderCat said:
Hey Tariq
you said the samething in your last podcast...besides that, do you have your own opinon of the movie?
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My opinion is exactly like his yes. I thought the movie was well done. Only problem I have is how quick people in this thread and all over the internet were quick to **** on Spike Lee like in the grand scheme of things his opinion matters.
 
Quincy Powell said:
Basically I agree with Deuce King and Tariq Nasheed.
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Thank you for that, and I definitely agree with your last statement.  The image of a white savior is being pushed by movie industry for those that are able to recognize it.  From movies such as The Blind Side, The Help, and now Django Unchained.  I won't even be surprised if a new show or the movie "Different Strokes" based on the old TV show makes it to the big screen.  I'm pretty sure it's in the works right now.
 
Man this movie is the ****. i recommend everyone go see it. Jamie Foxx had hella good aim throughout the entire movie 
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Quincy Powell said:
Too many Blacks rather have a White savior than one of their own that looks like them.
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Exactly, we bring down our own people so much its sad. But with this mindset being instilled in young black kids there doesn't seem like much can be done about it. It all starts at home and that is where we need to teach our children, not this "public education system"
 
Deuce King said:
Thank you for that, and I definitely agree with your last statement.  The image of a white savior is being pushed by movie industry for those that are able to recognize it.  From movies such as The Blind Side, The Help, and now Django Unchained.  I won't even be surprised if a new show or the movie "Different Strokes" based on the old TV show makes it to the big screen.  I'm pretty sure it's in the works right now.
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Some critical thinking is going on in here which is cool...

Read The Bluest Eye...
 
Great movie, I will say that this is a movie white folks will have to enjoy at home. They looked mad uncomfortable, during the ninja jokes. They knew it was funny but it didn't want to laugh.
 
Considering how the last third of he movie goes. I think you guys are exaggerating the white savior hero aspect. It's not "the blind side" status.
 
Tarantino himself on the white savior narrative
Henry Louis Gates Jr.:  The history of Hollywood is replete with black Christ figures, and we can just list them off the top of our heads. Why did you decide to make Dr. King Schultz the Christ figure?

Quentin Tarantino:  Here's the thing. There was actually some talk when the script got out there. Some people were speculating, is Schultz the white-savior character? He whips [out] a magic wand and Django is able to do this and he's able to do that and he's able to do the other thing, but all because Schultz allows him to do it.

And you know, I completely did not think that that was applicable to my story. But the thing is, it's actually kind of interesting at the same time. While I'm telling a black story, I'm also telling a Western. And I have Western conventions on my side to help tell my story.

HLG:  In fact, I call it a postmodern, slave-narrative Western.

QT: I'll buy that. But you know, one of the tropes of Westerns and telling a story like this is you have an experienced gunfighter who meets the young cowpoke who has some mission that he has to accomplish, and it's the old, experienced gunfighter who teaches him the tricks of the trade: teaches him how to draw his gun, teaches him how to kill.

Whether it be Kirk Douglas teaching young William Campbell in Man Without a Star  or Brian Keith teaching Steve McQueen in Nevada Smith,  or actually most of Lee Van Cleef's spaghetti Westerns that aren't with Sergio Leone -- that's kind of Van Cleef's role. Now, you go to the kung fu films -- that's always the case. There's an older guy teaching the younger guy and sending him on a vengeance journey.

HLG: It's a fundamental trope of the genre.

QT:  Absolutely. So I'm falling back on that. However, knowing you have the history of cinema where, OK, this is a movie about Stephen Biko, but we're telling it through Kevin Kline's eyes -- that kind of situation -- I actually was hoping to get a little bit of narrative anxiety going on about halfway through the movie: Wait, is this just going to be Schultz doing everything? What's going on here?

Hopefully, if you're unbiased, from where I'm coming from, it makes sense how the whole first part of the story's going. But when is Django going to be the hero? Because truthfully, in the first half of the story, he is Schultz's sidekick. But to me that's OK.

Now, here's the thing, though. If Schultz's plan had worked and they were able to kind of con Broomhilda out of her owner Candie's clutches and get her bill of sale, then Django would have taken her to New York. She probably would have gone on the abolitionist cocktail party circuit, telling her tales of woe and everything, with Django because he's not an outlaw now.

He's still on the right side of the law at this point, if that were to happen that way. And everything would be great for Django, and everything would be great for Broomhilda, but he would not be the hero of the story.

HLG:  No.

QT:  Schultz would be the hero of the story. Things have to go awry, and Schultz has to be taken out of the picture for Django to truly emerge as the hero. He has to actually be caught. He can take down a lot of people, but he actually has to be caught.

HLG: So that's why you sacrificed King Schultz.

QT: He had to pass on for Django to truly take the torch. And there's another narrative thing going on as well. Just the way Django probably feels about it, a little bit to some degree, the audience feels that I have shown two big sequences where Schultz has painted his way into a corner that there's no way he can get out of, and then he talks his way out. So we have two set pieces setting this up, and now we have a big third one. And by this time, the audience should actually feel that Schultz can handle anything.

HLG:  But Schultz makes the decision to sacrifice himself. He's won [against Candie]. They've given [Candie] $12,000 ransom money. He's going to shake hands -- I mean, being humiliated, but hell, he can get over that. But he decided, "F--k you, I'm going to blow you away."

QT:  Right. Well, you know, there are a few different reasons, and I don't want to spill it all out because I'm hoping that the audience will come up with some of their own of why Schultz does what he does. I actually think one of the definite reasons, though, is he had to put on this facade in dealing with this inhuman depravity that he's witnessing. Now that he's on the other side of it, it's all raining down on him.
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I'm well aware of the white savior narrative and it's one of my biggest frustrations in movies. So I paid particular attention to that for this movie, however what Tarantino says is very important. The experienced, veteran guy comes across a young protege and trains him, guides him, and the young character carries on if/when the older one dies. I think because it's a western it avoids the white savior narrative, at least it isn't on the level of something like The Blind Side. 

You're free to not buy Tarantino's reasoning, but it's important to recognize in this particular instance it's a trope of the genre. The young and naive gunfighter is trained and "saved" by the older, veteran one. In this case, it happens to be a white mentor, but the nature of the story required him to be white.
 
I'm well aware of the white savior narrative and it's one of my biggest frustrations in movies. So I paid particular attention to that for this movie, however what Tarantino says is very important. The experienced, veteran guy comes across a young protege and trains him, guides him, and the young character carries on if/when the older one dies. I think because it's a western it avoids the white savior narrative, at least it isn't on the level of something like The Blind Side. 

You're free to not buy Tarantino's reasoning, but it's important to recognize in this particular instance it's a trope of the genre. The young and naive gunfighter is trained and "saved" by the older, veteran one. In this case, it happens to be a white mentor, but the nature of the story required him to be white.
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Thanks for posting that article, but if that's the case as Quentin Tarantino wants to portray it as, why didn't he allow Django to kill Candie.  Django had more of an issue with Candie than "Dr. King" did and them going to Candieland was more of Django desired mission for obvious reasons.  Candie was the lead villain but yet Django isn't "allowed" to kill him, it had to be someone else, and it had to be someone white.
Considering how the last third of he movie goes. I think you guys are exaggerating the white savior hero aspect. It's not "the blind side" status.
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Not even directed at you but thanks for proving my point earlier on how this movie was marketed and who was the MAIN character and who wasn't.  With that in mind the title of the movie should have been "For the last third of the movie Django goes Unchained"
 
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CP1708 said:
Some thoughts I wrote up in another thread.

Broomhilda was literally the only character wasted, which is a shock to me, given how great Tarantino is with female roles (usually). But she was nothing but a memory to Django the whole time, a ghost in a field. Her lines were meaningless, the only part she had with any feel was of course the whipping scene, and that.........was hard to watch. That scene, you could feel how horrible that era must have been. I saw someone mention something about forcing Django to look at her back, as a way of saying that we should all look "back" at that era, and learn from our mistakes, if that is truly what he intended, and again, nothing he does is ever coincidence imo, then that was a great way at doing it.
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Repped for the entire post. Well done sir.

She spoke German. Without her ability to speak German, King's ruse / interest in purchasing her would have never worked. She was tucked away in the hot box upon their arrival to Candieland so there's no way he'd be able to segue into meeting her. But I do see your point in how strong QT usually writes his female characters (Jackie Brown, The Bride, the whole cast of Death Proof, Shoshana); but this movie was an old spaghetti western homage. To that point, they're rescuing a damsel in distress. To my knowledge, old movies about the cowboy protagonist rescuing the distressed damsel usually don't feature a strong, well developed damsel.
 
Well yeah django is definitley a sidekick for most the movie. I honestly kept thinking of lethal weapon. But everything flips when king makes his choice. Naming him King seems too on the nose for my tastes. But whatever.

BTW his choice to shoot Candie needs more discussion. I felt it was slightly forced. I'm gonna write up more on that when I get a chance, not in the mood


At the end of the day deuce it just seems like you were gonna be upset unless a black director made a movie for black audiences. Black hero. Black veteran gunslinger to teach the black hero.

I have no idea if a movie like that could get green lit. It would be tough. Not because whites would be uncomftorble (even though I'm sure many would). But because I don't know how money that movie makes.


To see that type of movie it will take black funding. maybe as time goes by we see more studios owned by black men and women? Maybe Tyler Perry starts to make better movies that won't nessesarily make big money?
 
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Deuce King said:
I'm well aware of the white savior narrative and it's one of my biggest frustrations in movies. So I paid particular attention to that for this movie, however what Tarantino says is very important. The experienced, veteran guy comes across a young protege and trains him, guides him, and the young character carries on if/when the older one dies. I think because it's a western it avoids the white savior narrative, at least it isn't on the level of something like The Blind Side. 

You're free to not buy Tarantino's reasoning, but it's important to recognize in this particular instance it's a trope of the genre. The young and naive gunfighter is trained and "saved" by the older, veteran one. In this case, it happens to be a white mentor, but the nature of the story required him to be white.
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Thanks for posting that article, but if that's the case as Quentin Tarantino wants to portray it as, why didn't he allow Django to kill Candie.  Django had more of an issue with Candie than "Dr. King" did and them going to Candieland was more of Django desired mission for obvious reasons.  Candie was the lead villain but yet Django isn't "allowed" to kill him, it had to be someone else, and it had to be someone white.


Considering how the last third of he movie goes. I think you guys are exaggerating the white savior hero aspect. It's not "the blind side" status.
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Not even directed at you but thanks for proving my point earlier on how this movie was marketed and who was the MAIN character and who wasn't.  With that in mind the title of the movie should have been "For the last third of the movie Django goes Unchained"
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QT said it....King Shultz had to die. I mean you change a lot of the movie if you let Django kill Candy and then have to find another way for King to die. This moment was the passing of the torch. It was basically one of the climaxes of the film. If Django kills Candy then you let King die by some other random goon? That really does a disservice to the other main character of the movie. None of which has to do with race to me. Its just the way the westerns pan out. Old man gets the kill....slowly dies....rookie watches it...swears vengence...and goes on rampage. That is how they usually happen and this obviously wasn't exactly like that but same vain.

I didn't watch any of the trailers so i am unaware as to how the movie was marketed. But people did tell me via word of mouth it was about a slave revolting. So maybe the marketing was misleading as to what people were going to get. But when i heard QT was doing a Spaghetti western i expected a western.
 
Was Dr. King Schultz really doing Django a service by killing Calvin Candie though?
 
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PLVN said:
Was Dr. King Schultz really doing Django a service by killing Calvin Candie though?
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I don't see why not. He was sassing Candie from the moment they arrived at Candieland so much that King had to tell him to take it down a notch. It's already evident that Django wants / wanted to kill Candie (he had his hand at his side ready to draw his firearm) when he learned that Broomhilda was in the hotbox. Also, go back to the scene where King explains how and why they're going to purchase Broomhilda using the "interest in mandingo fighting" ruse. He basically tells Django that everything has to be done lawfully ie: the bill of purchase. At the end of the day, how can Django have killed Candie lawfully? Sure Django had to shoot his way out of (and back into) Candieland, but he did it lawfully. He shot his way out of Candieland out of self defense, and he shot his way back into Candieland to retrive what was rightfully his "property". And I mean his "property" in no disrespect as he had the bill of purchase for Broomhilda.
 
At the end of the day deuce it just seems like you were gonna be upset unless a black director made a movie for black audiences. Black hero. Black veteran gunslinger to teach the black hero.
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Negative champ, that's not the case from my standpoint at all.  I got no problem with Quentin Tarantino choosing to direct or make a movie like this.  I have more of an issue with folks here or in the media trying to tear down Spike Lee for what he said as Spike has been at the forefront of black cinema for for quite some time and should at least be heard from his vantage point if he has something to say on the matter, which he did.
I have no idea if a movie like that could get green lit. It would be tough. Not because whites would be uncomfortable (even though I'm sure many would). But because I don't know how money that movie makes
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Money would be half of the equation in a movie like that getting green lit or not, the other part of the equation would be the message that the movie would send.
QT said it....King Shultz had to die. I mean you change a lot of the movie if you let Django kill Candy and then have to find another way for King to die.  This moment was the passing of the torch. It was basically one of the climaxes of the film. If Django kills Candy then you let King die by some other random goon?
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Okay fine, King Shultz had to die which I can understand but why couldn't Django have killed Calvin Candie, wouldn't that truly have made more sense??  Also, QT changing "alot of the movie" as you suggested had Django killed Candie is exactly the point.  King got killed by a no name or some random goon in the movie anyway, that part could have remained the same without him killing Candie. 
None of which has to do with race to me. Its just the way the westerns pan out
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You keep on thinking that champ.  I and others aren't going to fall for the banana in the tailpipe. 
 
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