Ray Donovan; new series on showtime

[D.Josey]

Completely random but did anyone catch that the song on the ending credits was the sample to Future "Lil' One"? Sure sounded like it

Wonder how Romero will handle the information Bunchie gave him after that beatdown by Ray though.

Paige was looking good this episode, I know Ray smashed that out

Ray is so calm and calculated.

Lol right, especially when he gave Romero hands?

 

[chewie]

Dz, check the website "tunefinder." It's legit

 

[bakajin]

S

About to get on last nights episode.

Sidenote: That was an interesting exchange about speculation and analaysis.

More than a few people speculated the Priest could be a fed, or a number of other things, one of which was somebody who was neither a fed or a priest but was out to get Ray from a previous dealing and only used the a Priest outfit to get into the hospital to get (try to get) info from Ezra etc.

Speculating is what happens in threads. Analaysis is what happens while reviewing articles. Nice.
I think you summed it up well, @Bakajinby stating simply, just because you speculate about it( in a forum thread nonetheless) doesn't mean you are Going to write an article about it, because writing an article about it and being wrong is where it can bite you in the ***.

There are a few people here, I'm sure, that could write reviews and get paid for it, Zik included. They do it here all the time, well, and for Free, so I got a little giggle to hear the the shots fired at you, and then see those followed with "I don't write because the pay isn't great"

I'll check back in after the ep, I need to read Ziks post afterward.

good lookin' G

Had to do the Fear the Walking Dead premier last night and didn't get to Ray until late. Found the quote used in the title refers to a manifesto by a Saint Teresa. Bunchy's Teresa, with her shrine, she was the only other religious figure in the episode. She and Romero both used pigeons, too. She may be more important thematically than we know.

I'm loving all the scenes Eddie Marsan is getting lately. He and Schreiber are great together. I feel bad for feeling joy when Terry went at Bunchy for being a snitch. But Bunchy got that right cross.

 

[Master Zik]

Ray is right not to confess in that scene. Does him no good at all and the priest could be recording it. His intentions are still not clear at all. Who knows, he could have had a relationship with o'connor too and is looking to avenge his death with police authorities not some BS catholic faith nonsense he's talking about.

At first I wanted Ray to check the confession booth for a bug but as things went on I actually accepted and believed Romero just wanted a confession and to absolve dude of his sins and had no other ulterior motives. I feel he thinks GOD's damnation or forgiveness is more important than legal punishment. I bet he even had his own confession with what he did to his abuser to show how committed to his faith he is.

At most he'll threaten to go to police just to get Ray to confess in the booth. That's what he really wants.

I liked that Ray simply didn't confess off the strength of it. Just off principle. Plus I bet there's some insecurity there with him revealing that weakness in him and w/e his relationship religion use to be.

 

[Sneaker P]

Ray is smart for not confessing. Don't trust the Catholic church, they powerful like the mob and just as crooked.

Bunch went ham and I'm glad he got it out of his system. His chick seems ride or die.

Man, Terry is going to get worse in the next couple seasons. His acting will be on point.

Mickey needs to figure out this situation with the armenians. Its gonna get out of hand.

 

[aepps20]

Brandon put hurt on those dudes. Kenneth Cosgrove needs to leave the underage girls alone. He don't want those kinds of problems. I was glad Raymond stomped that priest out. I'm interested to see what the priest's endgame is.

 

[hand2handking]

did yall miss the part when the priest said RAY WAS IN LOVE WITH O'CONNOR WHEN HE WAS BEING MOLESTED?? 

meaning ray been in the closet his whole life??

 

[youngin33]

^^^this is what made Ray snap. We also don't know if there's truth to that, but he had to be very young when he was abused too.

 

[Master Zik]

did yall miss the part when the priest said RAY WAS IN LOVE WITH O'CONNOR WHEN HE WAS BEING MOLESTED?? 

meaning ray been in the closet his whole life??

He didn't say "in love"

He said "I knew how much he hurt you and how much you loved him". I thought Romero meant it as he loved him in a religious fatherly sort of way. Like he trusted and loved him, maybe Ray was in to religion or open to it as a kid. So that ended up being a betrayal to Ray so that being partially true is what led to Ray beating the crap out of him. Not that Ray was in love with him and enjoyed the abuse and rape



If he did mean that, this show about to go real out of left field with it.

Saying a rape/molestation victim was in love with their abuser is a huge story point and statement. Especially in the context of priest and children. That backlash would be real.

 

[Sneaker P]

Didn't O'Connor take them to the ball games when Mickey was out running the streets. Maybe he was loved like a father figure, which he used to take advantage of them.

 

[hand2handking]

i never said he enjoyed abuse or rape 

 

 

[Master Zik]

Speculating Ray was in love with O'Connor (when that was not what was said) and that Ray is a closet homosexual directly suggests that he was in a sexual relationship with O'Connor since we know as a fact he was sexually abused. By definfition, that's abuse and rape.

 

[spiceman80]

Ray is right not to confess in that scene. Does him no good at all and the priest could be recording it. His intentions are still not clear at all. Who knows, he could have had a relationship with o'connor too and is looking to avenge his death with police authorities not some BS catholic faith nonsense he's talking about.

Not 100% sure, but I thought catholic confessions aren't admissible in court. Besides it seems like Romero is more concerned about Ray's soul being saved, than the punishment of jail time.

Brandon put hurt on those dudes. Kenneth Cosgrove needs to leave the underage girls alone. He don't want those kinds of problems. I was glad Raymond stomped that priest out. I'm interested to see what the priest's endgame is.

Bunchy let loose on them fools, I thought he was going to kill that dude. Ken is definitely crossing the line with the type of contact he is having with Bridgette, and she knows it isn't acceptable either. She setting herself up for a world of hurt.

did yall miss the part when the priest said RAY WAS IN LOVE WITH O'CONNOR WHEN HE WAS BEING MOLESTED?? 

meaning ray been in the closet his whole life??

Nah B. Love and in love 2 different things. He could love him as a father figure, especially when you see what kind of father Mickey was/is. When Terry said he heard Ray crying in his room I feel like that was part of it too. Not only being abused, but the fact it was by someone you loved, respected, and looked up to.

Now when it comes to O'Connor I'm not sure. O'Connor told Ray he loved him [last words], before Ray gave him that head shot.

 

[nydunkhead]

I agree with the fatherly figure thing, they also zoomed in on the alter with the cross which I think had some meaning that Ray was probably an alter boy and very religious when he was a child. I think he wasn't in love with O'Connor as being in a physical relationship but I think it was based on him being there for him since Mickey was not.

 

[hand2handking]

im sayin ray had romantic feelings for o'connor prior to being molested

it wasnt until after o'connor moved on to bunchy that ray caught feels

im sayin in ray eyes, in his heart of hearts he knows he wasnt being abused but that he liked that **** thats why he beat up romero like that

o'connor told romero that ray loved him fatherly or not its the same difference

any grown man that aint ya biological pops or w ya moms that you "love" in any sort of way is sus imo.

 

[Master Zik]

Yeah I can't get with any of that.

Not seeing any support from the story that could lead to that AT ALL.

Ray caught feelings cuz O'Connor moved on to Bunchy? The ****?!!!

I think your main problem is your thinking in that last part of your post. I would say you're ignoring that this is when they were children and there was no romantic emotional stuff involved but it seems you don't care about that and think that situation is sus all the time.

 

[a-friend]

Saying a boy or man can't love another man who isn't their Father or with their Mother is painting Love with too broad a brush. I'd find it disrespectful if I thought you weren't just naive here.

I could however, see the undertones of Ray being a kid who possibly did enjoy that sort of company/companionship/abuse, but I doubt very seriously the show will take it there with our hard ***, Love him and Hate him at the same time Hero type Ray Donovan. They probably won't go any further than that scene in that episode if they want this show to continue on for a few more Seasons. They'd lose their audience with that story line. They'd lose me anyway.

 

[hand2handking]

The way i see it even when they killed o'connor it wasnt until he told ray he loved him that got mad enough to kill him

U say theres no evidence in the show as if ray isnt emotionally distant, repressive, highly permiscuous and possibly closeted

He grew up in a boxing gym so my idea is he was always gay

He wanted mickey's approval, but couldnt fight

So he turned to the father who molested him

Like ray's whole character is about vulnerability

After being betrayed by the father he never got over it and able to make those emotional connections

I think that ep at the beginning of the season w the guy who wife was cheating w the qb was a big moment when ray got beat up

That whole scene seemed a lil sus but now i see it as ray looking at someone who is similar to him, a closet gay. Thats why the guy's wife was cheating and why he didnt want the money. Ray saw this and understood, which is why he wanted the guy to take the money. I was confused like is it jus becuase dude is a qb, but i think its deeper than that.

Edit: whats disrespctful about a boy loving a man who aint his pops or steppops?

And as far as them jus being kids ima ask what came first the chicken or the egg? Born gay or environment?

 

[PatRiley]

this show is amazing.

side note: how many people has Ray killed in the whole series?

 

[Master Zik]

The way i see it even when they killed o'connor it wasnt until he told ray he loved him that got mad enough to kill him

U say theres no evidence in the show as if ray isnt emotionally distant, repressive, highly permiscuous and possibly closeted


He grew up in a boxing gym so my idea is he was always gay

He wanted mickey's approval, but couldnt fight

So he turned to the father who molested him

Like ray's whole character is about vulnerability

After being betrayed by the father he never got over it and able to make those emotional connections

I think that ep at the beginning of the season w the guy who wife was cheating w the qb was a big moment when ray got beat up

None of this is evidence that Ray as a child had romantic feelings for O'Connor at all. What you state about Ray doesn't even imply that even the way you're setting up the situation with his father, his brothers, and O'Connor.

Plus there's a timeline thing with when Ray got abused as far as you saying he turned to his abuser.

I think it was more like O'Connor was looked at as a father by Ray. Since his was an a-hole. Only love involved there would be the love for a father along with the understanding of the role of a priest in the Catholic community. Then O'Connor betrayed that trust by abusing Ray.

That whole scene seemed a lil sus but now i see it as ray looking at someone who is similar to him, a closet gay. Thats why the guy's wife was cheating and why he didnt want the money. Ray saw this and understood, which is why he wanted the guy to take the money. I was confused like is it jus becuase dude is a qb, but i think its deeper than that.

Losing me here again. You seem to find a lot of not unusual things sus. I don't know why you're going for they're gay here.

This whole closet gay thing you're going for seems solely fabricated by you and not anything with any backing from the show.

Why can't Ray relate to this dude because he was in a similar situation as him last season? Which he basically alludes to the whole time he dealt with the guy?

You're straight up coming up with the surprise reveal that Ray is secretly gay maybe even in denial about it, was in love with his abuser, and is now on the low trying to find an emotional connection with another guy like him that might be gay cuz? What he's going to engage in a homosexual relationship? Explore it?

This would be such bad writing imo. It's like the epitome of bad story build up and character development.

Edit: whats disrespctful about a boy loving a man who aint his pops or steppops?

What's disrespectful is you saying it can't be anything but sus for a young boy to look at a man who isn't his father or step father and isn't with his mom as a fatherly
figure and have the love a son would have for a father for that man.

The question is what's sus about it?

And as far as them jus being kids ima ask what came first the chicken or the egg? Born gay or environment?

This has nothing to do with being born gay and children's environment.

You straight up are saying Ray as a child was in love with O'Connor. We gonna need facts with statements like that. Never mind your whole theory is based off something Romero did NOT say. He did not say Ray was in love with O'Connor or that O'Connor was in love with him. Maybe you think that's semantics (he was in love with you vs. he love(s)d you) or don't want to discern between being in love and loving a family member or friend in a platonic way.

Your entire theory seems farfetched and a huge reach based off mishearing something.

 

[hand2handking]

im even more convinced after this last ep

i think theyre trying to use finney as a foil for ray

all the money and success but he cant be out and cant admit he gay

he's like ray if he got old and never came out

 

[rico x hood]

I'm hating where they're going with Ray's daughter and the teacher. Seems so pointless. And where the hell is the son? Dude pulled a Judy from Family Matters.

Question, in the flash forward scenes of Ray burying the body we see him dumping the box with stuff about the priest. But then when he was actually digging the grave with Avi the box isn't around. Were those flash forward scenes just a dream or did I just miss when he buried the box.


Ray ain gay.

 

[youngin33]

Cracked up when that chick got bit by the snake they injected heroin with!!

Bridget storyline is just not necessary so agreed would rather fast forward those scenes.

Don't think we've seen the last of Romero, but that's just my gut feeling.

Like the angle with Abby helping Terry out.

Also liked Mickey not trying to hear he's getting old, especially from dude suggesting he plays that card game hahaha.

 

[Master Zik]

I feel like the ending is gonna be all about the Minassins and saving Bunchy.

Maybe his fiance dies or she finally gets accepted as part of the fam.

I can see Mickey smashing the detective too

I feel like Ray should've asked for more money to get rid of that body and cover up the murder. Hopefully Romero doesn't show up again.

I'm hating where they're going with Ray's daughter and the teacher. Seems so pointless. And where the hell is the son? Dude pulled a Judy from Family Matters.

Every subplot with Bridget has been terrible. Each season. No surprise at this teacher one. The writing is just weird. It's not even channeling anything. Just random and going nowhere but I'm sure they'll tie it in to the finale. Maybe involve Abby or something.

Question, in the flash forward scenes of Ray burying the body we see him dumping the box with stuff about the priest. But then when he was actually digging the grave with Avi the box isn't around. Were those flash forward scenes just a dream or did I just miss when he buried the box.

He got the box out of his trunk. It wasn't just lying around while he was digging alone and then digging with Avi. They were flash forward scenes and they did happen. To Avi he probably just didn't ask any questions.

Besides, Ray set the box and files along with the body on fire. He left Avi back there to bury it.

 

[chewie]

I liked that they at least spoke about the reporter, even though Ray mostly just listened. Avi was my favorite character on the show and I miss him working with Ray

Shoutout to the writers who, though I should have seen the twist coming, had me thinking that was the priest who got bodied during the first 40 minutes of the episode