Registered Independents: Which way are you leaning toward?

[Trent Reznor]

Please die hard dems and die hard reps please stay out of this thread. I'm curious where my fellow independents are leaning and why....

Myself personally I'm still on the fence with both candidates. I'm not a fan of Obamacare, but I'm also not a fan of "big business" corporate run society. CEO's most definitely won't be held accountable with Romney, but nothing has really "changed" with Obama on the business end.

I usually wait until after the debates to hear both sides before I make my decision. Unfortunately, after hearing Sarah Palin, my decision was made very clear from the gate last election.

I wish Ron Paul got the Republican nod. It would be a lot easier for me to vote this election.

As of right now, i'm voting Rosanne Barr for the green party lol.

 

[jthagreat]

what dont you like about 'Obamacare'?

Why are you not a fan of 'big business run society'?

why are you currently votin for Rossane Bar?

 

[createdestroy]

the "lol" at the end of your post killed the possibility of me taking this thread serious.

 

[rashi]

I don't vote, but I would like to see Jill Stein and Gary Johnson in the debates just for the entertainment value. Both of them would wax Obama and Romney.

 

[futuremd]

I don't vote, but I would like to see Jill Stein and Gary Johnson in the debates just for the entertainment value. Both of them would wax Obama and Romney.

Even if you feel like voting doesn't matter, why bother having an opinion?

I'm being completely serious. 

Growing up, I never understood it. I learned more about why people choose not to...then became sympathetic to them...now I'm back to my original stance.

Its just like why are those that don't vote so critical of things? Even if you dont like the two main candidates, find one you like and vote. Thats what voting is. 

You shouldn't vote just because you want to be on the winning side. 

Like I realize the criticism for the system but after getting so frustrated with things, the LEAST I can do is that IF my vote does matter even on the local level, at least I can say I tried. 

 

[socluis90]

Leaning Obama. Just hard for me to like Romney. Seems like a total douche. Wish Ron Paul was still in it.

 

[Trent Reznor]

I don't like Obamacare because of the overall logistics of it. That type of insurance has failed everywhere its been implemented. Ask a Canadian what they think about their insurance plans. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. If I'm paying for my insurance out of my paycheck it shouldn't take me a month to see a doctor. Also, I shouldn't be penalized if I decide I don't WANT the Obamacare coverage. For something like insurance I want freedom to choose which is best for ME. Currently I have 3 options with my company. I don't want to be limited to one.

Also, if you are currently on medication, your cost of scripts will probably raise substantially because the pharmaceutical companies rates are going to increase by billions.



I don't like big business in society because it keeps the middle man out of the equation. Greedy CEO's will continue to rack in billions while the middle man is struggling to keep his family afloat on a 40k or less income working endless nights. There should be a balance in place. I know it won't happen, but bonuses should be paid out to all rather than a handful. For example, a company like Citi was giving out millions in bonus money while they were laying off thousands of employees. If that bonus money was evenly distributed, those jobs could have been saved.



And the Rosanne Barr was a joke, but she swears she'll legalize it so shes good in my book. And she replies to my tweets hahaha.

 

[Trent Reznor]

the "lol" at the end of your post killed the possibility of me taking this thread serious.

Obviously, it was a joke.

 

[rashi]

Even if you feel like voting doesn't matter, why bother having an opinion?

I'm being completely serious. 

Growing up, I never understood it. I learned more about why people choose not to...then became sympathetic to them...now I'm back to my original stance.

Its just like why are those that don't vote so critical of things? Even if you dont like the two main candidates, find one you like and vote. Thats what voting is. 

You shouldn't vote just because you want to be on the winning side. 

Like I realize the criticism for the system but after getting so frustrated with things, the LEAST I can do is that IF my vote does matter even on the local level, at least I can say I tried. 

Because we live in a system where others peoples emotions have a direct efffect on your life. I don't vote, but because people are emotionally attached to a Red team and Blue team, both of which have destroyed the purchasing power of them monopolized fiat currency, took away my rights that put me in danger, ect.

I don't vote because I don't agree with the system that proports violence. Voting will only perpetuate what I don't agree with. I don't vote because politicians don't have an incentive to tell you the truth, they have an incentive to tell you a lie so they can retain power over YOU. I don't need someone to tell me what is good for me or my family. The Constitution and the story behind the fairy tale of the "Founders" is full of it. They were no different than the politicians we have today, and people like Conservative put these people like they are divine.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I don't like Obamacare because of the overall logistics of it. That type of insurance has failed everywhere its been implemented. Ask a Canadian what they think about their insurance plans. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. If I'm paying for my insurance out of my paycheck it shouldn't take me a month to see a doctor. Also, I shouldn't be penalized if I decide I don't WANT the Obamacare coverage. For something like insurance I want freedom to choose which is best for ME. Currently I have 3 options with my company. I don't want to be limited to one.
Also, if you are currently on medication, your cost of scripts will probably raise substantially because the pharmaceutical companies rates are going to increase by billions.
I don't like big business in society because it keeps the middle man out of the equation. Greedy CEO's will continue to rack in billions while the middle man is struggling to keep his family afloat on a 40k or less income working endless nights. There should be a balance in place. I know it won't happen, but bonuses should be paid out to all rather than a handful. For example, a company like Citi was giving out millions in bonus money while they were laying off thousands of employees. If that bonus money was evenly distributed, those jobs could have been saved.
And the Rosanne Barr was a joke, but she swears she'll legalize it so shes good in my book. And she replies to my tweets hahaha.

1. I'm Canadian I love our health care system and I will tell you that this is the majority opinion of most Canadians.

2. There are very significant differences between obama care and the canadian healthcare system, in fact they aren't really similar at all so don't get the comparison.



Also correct me if im wrong but Obamacare involvew a mandate that you have insurance not that you a specific type have a specific type of insurance so you won't be forced to get rid of your health insurence plan if you already have one.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Because we live in a system where others peoples emotions have a direct efffect on your life. I don't vote, but because people are emotionally attached to a Red team and Blue team, both of which have destroyed the purchasing power of them monopolized fiat currency, took away my rights that put me in danger, ect.
I don't vote because I don't agree with the system that proports violence. Voting will only perpetuate what I don't agree with. I don't vote because politicians don't have an incentive to tell you the truth, they have an incentive to tell you a lie so they can retain power over YOU. I don't need someone to tell me what is good for me or my family. The Constitution and the story behind the fairy tale of the "Founders" is full of it. They were no different than the politicians we have today, and people like Conservative put these people like they are divine.

If you have lost so many rights, are in such danger, and feel the system is such a joke, why not just leave America.

Really, why not just leave?

 

[Trent Reznor]

1. I'm Canadian I love our health care system and I will tell you that this is the majority opinion of most Canadians.
2. There are very significant differences between obama care and the canadian healthcare system, in fact they aren't really similar at all so don't get the comparison.

I'm going off of what Canadians have expressed to me personally. Obviously its different for everyone. They have implied that if the Canadian healthcare system continues the way it is, it will not sustain itself.

How are they not similar? Its a government controlled healthcare system. I understand its not the SAME, but Canada's healthcare is still run by the government correct? I don't want government involved with how or why I pay for health care.

 

[futuremd]

Even if you feel like voting doesn't matter, why bother having an opinion?

I'm being completely serious. 

Growing up, I never understood it. I learned more about why people choose not to...then became sympathetic to them...now I'm back to my original stance.

Its just like why are those that don't vote so critical of things? Even if you dont like the two main candidates, find one you like and vote. Thats what voting is. 

You shouldn't vote just because you want to be on the winning side. 

Like I realize the criticism for the system but after getting so frustrated with things, the LEAST I can do is that IF my vote does matter even on the local level, at least I can say I tried. 

Because we live in a system where others peoples emotions have a direct efffect on your life. I don't vote, but because people are emotionally attached to a Red team and Blue team, both of which have destroyed the purchasing power of them monopolized fiat currency, took away my rights that put me in danger, ect.

I don't vote because I don't agree with the system that proports violence. Voting will only perpetuate what I don't agree with. I don't vote because politicians don't have an incentive to tell you the truth, they have an incentive to tell you a lie so they can retain power over YOU. I don't need someone to tell me what is good for me or my family. The Constitution and the story behind the fairy tale of the "Founders" is full of it. They were no different than the politicians we have today, and people like Conservative put these people like they are divine.

So basically, you're not going to change the system or support a system you DO like. 

You'll just complain.

Ok. Great. 

 

[jking0821]

I don't like Obamacare because of the overall logistics of it. That type of insurance has failed everywhere its been implemented. Ask a Canadian what they think about their insurance plans. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but it doesn't work. If I'm paying for my insurance out of my paycheck it shouldn't take me a month to see a doctor. Also, I shouldn't be penalized if I decide I don't WANT the Obamacare coverage. For something like insurance I want freedom to choose which is best for ME. Currently I have 3 options with my company. I don't want to be limited to one.
Also, if you are currently on medication, your cost of scripts will probably raise substantially because the pharmaceutical companies rates are going to increase by billions.
I don't like big business in society because it keeps the middle man out of the equation. Greedy CEO's will continue to rack in billions while the middle man is struggling to keep his family afloat on a 40k or less income working endless nights. There should be a balance in place. I know it won't happen, but bonuses should be paid out to all rather than a handful. For example, a company like Citi was giving out millions in bonus money while they were laying off thousands of employees. If that bonus money was evenly distributed, those jobs could have been saved.
And the Rosanne Barr was a joke, but she swears she'll legalize it so shes good in my book. And she replies to my tweets hahaha.

1. I'm Canadian I love our health care system and I will tell you that this is the majority opinion of most Canadians.

2. There are very significant differences between obama care and the canadian healthcare system, in fact they aren't really similar at all so don't get the comparison.



Also correct me if im wrong but Obamacare involvew a mandate that you have insurance not that you a specific type have a specific type of insurance so you won't be forced to get rid of your health insurence plan if you already have one.

This is what i thought as well. Obamacare gives the less fortunate a public OPTION. It does not force everyone to have Government health insurance but provides it for those that can not obtain it otherwise. And the health insurance companies are obviously angry because the government could dictate the industry if the public option is better then the private firms.

But feel free to correct me this is just what i heard on Bill Maher
This

 

[Trent Reznor]

This is what i thought as well. Obamacare gives the less fortunate a public OPTION. It does not force everyone to have Government health insurance but provides it for those that can not obtain it otherwise. And the health insurance companies are obviously angry because the government could dictate the industry if the public option is better then the private firms.
But feel free to correct me this is just what i heard on Bill Maher
This

I understand that. But I should be forced to pay more taxes, more out of my paycheck, to cover those not fortunate? From what I understand of it, if I choose not to go with Obamacare I'll have to personally pay a $700 penalty in 2014.

And again, it will impact me and my family personally because it will increase my personal premiums or prescriptions. So I'm going to get penalized for taking a job with good healthcare when I don't make much money?



Good points. This is EXACTLY what I wanted from this post. I'm not expert on any of this nor claim to be and if I'm wrong on some points thats what I'm here for. To get more educated myself. I listen to ALOT of talk radio going for both sides and its all mumbo jumbo to me.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm going off of what Canadians have expressed to me personally. Obviously its different for everyone. They have implied that if the Canadian healthcare system continues the way it is, it will not sustain itself.
How are they not similar? Its a government controlled healthcare system. I understand its not the SAME, but Canada's healthcare is still run by the government correct? I don't want government involved with how or why I pay for health care.

1. They are wrong.

2. Canada is completely government run health care system, obmacare again if im not mistake is a series of mandates and subsidies to allow Americans, easier an cheaper access to health insurance, you still have to make decisions you still have to buy insurance, you still can choose between various insurance plans, in canada none of that exists except for dentistry, eye care and perscriptions.

 

[futuremd]

Lets not forget that Obama wanted essentially universal healthcare but it became the current form of "Obamacare" which is essentially the same as what Romney did when he was governor of MA. 

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I understand that. But I should be forced to pay more taxes, more out of my paycheck, to cover those not fortunate? From what I understand of it, if I choose not to go with Obamacare I'll have to personally pay a $700 penalty in 2014.
And again, it will impact me and my family personally because it will increase my personal premiums or prescriptions. So I'm going to get penalized for taking a job with good healthcare when I don't make much money?
Good points. This is EXACTLY what I wanted from this post. I'm not expert on any of this nor claim to be and if I'm wrong on some points thats what I'm here for. To get more educated myself. I listen to ALOT of talk radio going for both sides and its all mumbo jumbo to me.

1. 700 where did you get this number.

2. again obamacare what is that, the government isn't offering healthcare insurance, it's offering subsidies to people who can't afford health care, so what you will refuse the subside? why?

I could be wrong I only have a very general knowledge of obamacare.

I don't get wwhy any American would be opposed to obmaace, but im Canadian, we have straight up socialized medicine.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Lets not forget that Obama wanted essentially universal healthcare but it became the current form of "Obamacare" which is essentially the same as what Romney did when he was governor of MA. 

yup well i belive is that if you could not afford insurance the government would offer a plan, bhut that portion of the bill has been removed, so I don't get what op is talking about, there is no specific obamacare insurance plan, but subsidies based on your income level if you don't have insurance.

again somebody correct me if im wrong.

 

[Trent Reznor]

Lets not forget that Obama wanted essentially universal healthcare but it became the current form of "Obamacare" which is essentially the same as what Romney did when he was governor of MA. 

Thats what I thought. I have to read up more on the revisions. I was under the impression it was going to be universal like in Canada and in UK.

 

[futuremd]

Lets not forget that Obama wanted essentially universal healthcare but it became the current form of "Obamacare" which is essentially the same as what Romney did when he was governor of MA. 

yup well i belive is that if you could not afford insurance the government would offer a plan, bhut that portion of the bill has been removed, so I don't get what op is talking about, there is no specific obamacare insurance plan, but subsidies based on your income level if you don't have insurance.

again somebody correct me if im wrong.

Its not where I want to be, but its a step forward. 

 

[Trent Reznor]

yup well i belive is that if you could not afford insurance the government would offer a plan, bhut that portion of the bill has been removed, so I don't get what op is talking about, there is no specific obamacare insurance plan, but subsidies based on your income level if you don't have insurance.
again somebody correct me if im wrong.

So let me ask you where is that money coming from to subsidize the "less fortunate" that are going to get free healthcare?

Funny I'm getting major knowledge from a Canadian about US policy. lol Good stuff man.

I think my biggest concern is if my personal premiums are going to increase to subsidize this, I'm NOT for it. I live in a pretty nasty neighborhood and MOST people around me are almost completely subsidized. I pride myself that I don't get government assistance, but in the same token, I don't make much money. I can't have increases on my personal plan because Joe Schmo wants another free payout from the government.
'

 

[lyonbc1]

I'm going off of what Canadians have expressed to me personally. Obviously its different for everyone. They have implied that if the Canadian healthcare system continues the way it is, it will not sustain itself.
How are they not similar? Its a government controlled healthcare system. I understand its not the SAME, but Canada's healthcare is still run by the government correct? I don't want government involved with how or why I pay for health care.

1. They are wrong.

2. Canada is completely government run health care system, obmacare again if im not mistake is a series of mandates and subsidies to allow Americans, easier an cheaper access to health insurance, you still have to make decisions you still have to buy insurance, you still can choose between various insurance plans, in canada none of that exists except for dentistry, eye care and perscriptions.

Yeah, I've tried to read through the entire health care law and I'm only like 1/3 of the way through (aside from seeing excerpts from it on news and stuff) and it's not government forced healthcare and making all Americans subscribe to this Govn't run system of health insurance, its moreso to help those who don't have it and those who have pre-existing conditions who cannot get access to quality insurance from those companies.....now those don't directly affect me since my parents have solid healthcare but I am 100% behind insuring people who can't get it b/c these greedy insurance co's won't provide it for them. The part that does affect me most as of now, is that I can be on my dad's insurance till I'm 26 which is . But I also support the less fortunate being able to have affordable ehalthcare, there's too many children in that scenario who get sick and unfortunately die b/c they have easily treatable problems that become life threatening due to their inability to access it.

The fact is insurance and healthcare costs have been rising dramatically over the last 20 yrs before the Healthcare law seems lost on a lot of people talking about it, this law isn't gonna make it any worse, in fact in about 10 yrs it will end up saving most families money...

But to answer OP's original question I am registered Independent and am leaning toward Obama again, (really Huntsman would be the only Republican candidate they put up who I wouldn't have been embarrassed as being our President Cain-Bachmann-Perry :x:x:x Ron Paul I'm ehhh about). I just haven't seen the ideas coming from Romney or the right at this point (Paul Ryan I can't agree with on damn near anything as well) and I'm scared about how he would lead the country (like an investing corporation not like a unified nation with people in poverty as well as well off citizens)...as well as what he'd do for foreign policy, just too much and Romney is too far out of touch with everyday majority of Americans for my liking. These recent comments certainly don't help in that regard either, now the debates will be interesting but based on the Republican debates, I'm not certain Mitt can do anything to sway me at this stage.....I need to look more into Johnston's policies or that other woman Stein? But realistically they have no chance, but I'll do my due diligence I guess

 

[00david00]

Lets not forget that Obama wanted essentially universal healthcare but it became the current form of "Obamacare" which is essentially the same as what Romney did when he was governor of MA. 

Thats what I thought. I have to read up more on the revisions. I was under the impression it was going to be universal like in Canada and in UK.

Not for now at least. I have not red everything about obamacare but the main point of it is to mandate health care, not really provide it euro style and offer subsidies. amirite?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The funny thing, im not a joiner, i don't ascribe to any sort of political classification I just try to be a person who looks at the facts and comes to a decision. Some people have told me that I am dead center, some say im conservative but in comparison to Americans im probably lefty as **** only because I can't really deal with social conservatism on any level, fiscally yes, socially heeell to the no. Thats why if I were an american It would be incredibly difficult to vote for a rebublican no matter what I thought of there strategies for governance just because the republican party seems to be getting more socially conservative as the culture becomes more liberal.

I mean how long till we a republican who can get elected by his party to run for president who believes in some sort of abortion rights or gay rights? They can beat a president who has like 9% unemployment rate...what does that say about the party and it's future.