SHOTS FIRED! Police fatally shoot Guy with a crowbar outside of Carl's Jr. vol. 10 shots though?!?

[bean pie slanga]

Man, why is this thread 20 pages? I don't wanna know.

That's how they do in Cali. Lots of crazies out here who pull crap like this and police aren't gonna risk their life over some nonsense. Someone in my town got killed the same way but they were wielding a baseball bat. These weapons can kill a man with just one blow above the neck. So who is gonna go first? You shoot below the waist and they are still gonna swing at you.

 

[cwrite78]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

im talkin in general, not just this situation but what makes a cops life more important then any other regular persons?


cops kill innocent people and they get assigned desk work. someone kills a cop and it's all over the news like it's some huge deal and when the cops get them they enforce their type of justice. either way it's a tragedy.

a crowbar can do damage but a gun can do way more. cops take the job knowing they may get hurt in the line of duty, that's a risk their willing to take. how hard would it be for the cop to backstep while the other cop shoots him in the leg.

i hope the victims family sues and gets a nice settlement check.

Again, cops are trained to shoot at center mass.

Limbs are too tricky of a shot because the person can move around and the cop can miss and hit a bystander. It is not that hard to understand.

And I hope they don't sue, those are my tax dollars paying for some idiot that decided to be ballsy and try to attack a cop.

 

[doublejs07]

Originally Posted by CWrite78

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

im talkin in general, not just this situation but what makes a cops life more important then any other regular persons?


cops kill innocent people and they get assigned desk work. someone kills a cop and it's all over the news like it's some huge deal and when the cops get them they enforce their type of justice. either way it's a tragedy.

a crowbar can do damage but a gun can do way more. cops take the job knowing they may get hurt in the line of duty, that's a risk their willing to take. how hard would it be for the cop to backstep while the other cop shoots him in the leg.

i hope the victims family sues and gets a nice settlement check.

Again, cops are trained to shoot at center mass.

Limbs are too tricky of a shot because the person can move around and the cop can miss and hit a bystander. It is not that hard to understand.

And I hope they don't sue, those are my tax dollars paying for some idiot that decided to be ballsy and try to attack a cop.

But...but...but...police can clearly disarm an assailant if they shoot the person in the ring finger. 

 

[kookcle]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

i wouldn't be a cop in the first place. i wouldn't take a job like that knowing the risks involved.

he came at the guy with a crowbar, not a gun, but a crowbar.

1 guy with a crowbar vs a bunch of cops and k9's. how hard is it to shot the guy below the belt when he's coming at them so that he's subdued without being murdered.

what makes a cops life more valuable then the crowbar guys life though?

if a cop draws a gun on an innocent person for no reason (it happens at times) do they deserve a slug as well?

If that idiot didnt go after the cop NONE of these wouldve happened.
He would still be ALIVE. The whole thing would have ended quietly and peacefully with no shots fired.

HIS stupidity led to his death

If he wouldve just kept walking and not "threaten" the officers guess what the cops will just follow procedure

They would probably just talk him into dropping the weapon and maybe taser him again.

same scenario as this video, although this cop was more calm with the single shot.

 

[cwrite78]

it's possible.

By a trained sniper 100 yards away pointing at a person that is not moving, I've seen it happen (well on video, guy shot the gun clean off his hand).

But this isn't that situation, and I'd hope all these professionaly trained ex cops/marines/Internet warriors would get that through your head.

 

[rex ryan]

why shoot him 10 times though? the first chest shot didn't do enough damage?

it's morally wrong how the cops handled this, simple as that. send the dog after him, taze him, do something else, but they could've handled this better.

and if the person they murdered has any type of mental illness or problems his family will be getting paid.

 

[cwrite78]

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.

You get proven wrong and try to latch on to something else.

 

[Fresh Like Will]

This thread is just going in circles.

The one cop put himself in that predicament. You don't need to be a trained officer to know that you shouldn't get that close to someone holding a pipe bender when you have a gun. That one bumbling cop CREATED that whole situation. He even took his eyes off the perpetrator when he was less than 3 feet away from him to reload his taser. He almost tripped over himself while doing the electric slide because of it.

It wasn't necessary to get that close. The bystanders were already safely away from the perp and the perp wasn't even walking towards anyone. He was walking towards the car across the parking lot in front of the restaurant. If the one inept, uncoordinated, bumbling, incompetent cop had kept his distance like any rational thinking person would. Maybe the situation wouldn't of ended the way it did. But what did happen was he DID get that close AND took his eyes off the guy while being that close. His partner had to shoot because he endangered himself.

Not to mention that the second burst of shots from the second cop who endangered himself WERE excessive. There was an apparent pause after the first 5 shots and the guy was already turned around ready to keel and the second cop puts 5 more in his back. He was already done. That just made it look like he had a chip on his shoulder and was a little emotionally disturbed from the situation. He did not need to fire. The guy wasn't going to be winding up that pipe bender after the first 5 shots.

I'm definitely not defending the guy with the pipe bender though. It wasn't a good idea AT ALL. All I'm saying is that just because someone has a badge and uniform on, doesn't always mean that the decisions they made were the best. They could of released the dog when this guy was pulling the taser dart out of his face. That guy wasn't going to be able to simultaneously pull this taser dart out of his face while winding up and swinging this pipe bender. Let alone aim it. The dog could of been snacking on his arm in 2-3 seconds.

People in here are treating cops as one way or the other. Like everything they do is justified or vice versa. Sometimes they make good calls. Sometimes they make bad calls. In this situation, I think they made a couple bad ones.

 

[wade187]

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

Originally Posted by Wade187

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

The man was shot because he STEPPED to the officer w/ a weapon in hand.  Excuse me...not just stepped, but actually motioned that he was going to STRIKE the officer.  You really seem to have a hard time understanding this.

If I swing a golf club out of reach of an officer I'm not getting shot. The man was a threat because the cop was sloppy, you seem to have a hard time understanding that. 

Maybe we watched different videos.  The one I saw CLEARLY was showing a man in a close proximity to an officer, with a weapon in hand.  Not only w/ a weapon in hand, but he flexed like he was going to strike the cop.  How is this hard for you to grasp?  He deserved to be shot. 

*And if you're swinging a golf club in the direction of a cop, even if you THINK you aren't in reach...you'd deserve a slug as well.  You're trying your hardest to make a foolish point.  If you're swinging a golf club in that fashion, you're trying to do some damage.  I'm sorry, but I don't buy anything you're saying or trying to prove.  I'll trust KayGee's words, because he's actually had academy training. 

So why you keep disregarding the facts of why he was that close? Is son a magician? Because you feel his life is not worthy it's ok to overlook this? K

 

[rex ryan]

Originally Posted by Fresh Like Will

This thread is just going in circles.

The one cop put himself in that predicament. You don't need to be a trained officer to know that you shouldn't get that close to someone holding a pipe bender when you have a gun. That one bumbling cop CREATED that whole situation. He even took his eyes off the perpetrator when he was less than 3 feet away from him to reload his taser. He almost tripped over himself while doing the electric slide because of it.

It wasn't necessary to get that close. The bystanders were already safely away from the perp and the perp wasn't even walking towards anyone. He was walking towards the car across the parking lot in front of the restaurant. If the one inept, uncoordinated, bumbling, incompetent cop had kept his distance like any rational thinking person would. Maybe the situation wouldn't of ended the way it did. But what did happen was he DID get that close AND took his eyes off the guy while being that close. His partner had to shoot because he endangered himself.

Not to mention that the second burst of shots from the second cop who endangered himself WERE excessive. There was an apparent pause after the first 5 shots and the guy was already turned around ready to keel and the second cop puts 5 more in his back. He was already done. That just made it look like he had a chip on his shoulder and was a little emotionally disturbed from the situation. He did not need to fire. The guy wasn't going to be winding up that pipe bender after the first 5 shots.

I'm definitely not defending the guy with the pipe bender though. It wasn't a good idea AT ALL. All I'm saying is that just because someone has a badge and uniform on, doesn't always mean that the decisions they made were the best. They could of released the dog when this guy was pulling the taser dart out of his face. That guy wasn't going to be able to simultaneously pull this taser dart out of his face while winding up and swinging this pipe bender. Let alone aim it. The dog could of been snacking on his arm in 2-3 seconds.

People in here are treating cops as one way or the other. Like everything they do is justified or vice versa. Sometimes they make good calls. Sometimes they make bad calls. In this situation, I think they made a couple bad ones.

my thoughts as well, i've defended cops in past situations where the person they shot was armed with a gun.  dude woth the pipe isn't some innocent victim and he should've been locked up but whoever is disagreeing with me can go back and forth with me all day but at the end of the day the cops could've handled this respective situation better and that's a fact.

again someone please answer this question.   what makes a cops life more important then any other persons life though?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Dropten

Originally Posted by KayGeeDaGr8

Rex Ryan- Good thing your not a cop because if you think tooooo much on the job we would be holding a memorial service for you in no time!!! But for reals you step to a cop like that with a weapon in hand you are getting handled. I had a dude pull a katana blade on me but I didnt shoot him because he was a distance away from me but let him be close to me I would probably would have shot him.

yep

basically, dude already said he wouldn't become a cop knowing the risks involved-He's NOT about that life

 

[throwback1718]

dude was out of line for approaching with a crowbar. but the cop was out of line for the amount of shots. he could have shot dude in the lower half of his body and dude would have been stopped. that's all. 1 or 2 shots to the leg and that's all. 10x is too much for a man wielding a crowbar.

 

[mr jordan04]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan


a crowbar can do damage but a gun can do way more. cops take the job knowing they may get hurt in the line of duty, that's a risk their willing to take. how hard would it be for the cop to backstep while the other cop shoots him in the leg.

how hard would it be for the guy to drop the crowbar?

 

[jdubb2345]

The guy should have listened, plain and simple.  When your being pulled over do you keep going?  When you have 3 cops with guns drawn do you not respond to commands?  When you have a police dog 3 feet from you do you not listen to what is being said?  Plain and simple dude got what he deserved.   Police don't have the time in a situation like this to decide do i fire or not.  Its a split second choice kill or be killed.  If police had rubber bullets load in a clip no one would take them seriously.   Taking a tazer to the face and not being effected is a huge sign that any thing but being shot 1-100 times is the final step.  For those of you saying send the dog,  remember that a attempting to harm or kill a police dog is the same as trying to do it to a Police officer,  again resulting in the same,  deadly force.
If some one is coming after you or friend with any type of weapon do you not make a choice to fight/help.  Its a situation where 1-2 sec more the officer would be injured/killed.

People asking questions about what makes a police officers life more important,  these a authority figures in the community.  This is there job, keep the public safe and uphold the laws.  Do you not try and defend yourself when you are put in a risky situation?  I would protect myself, family,friends etc.  If deadly force is the final result, it is what it is.  

 

[cwrite78]

Again with the stupid "shoot his legs" option.

What part do you guys not understand?

 

[rex ryan]

the way i see it is this.   

if me or anyone else on here was walking down the street and some crazy guy with a crowbar tried to run up on us and we shot him 10 times we would be charged with murder so why are the cops given a free pass?

even if we had a firearms licence and were allowed to carry a gun, 10 shots would be deemed excessive if done by a regular person and that is a FACT.  same way if someone breaks in your house, there's been cases where the homeowner was charged for killing or using excessive force on the robber even though the robber posed a legit threat to their life.   why are cops given a free pass to shoot as they please?

no one has still answered the question as well of what makes a cops life more important then a regular persons and i really don't expect that question to be answered either because the answer is that their life isn't more important then a regular persons.

regarding the guy with the crowbar, it's clear he wasn't thinking rationally at the time. who knows what his situation was and he's stupid for not dropping the crowbar, but the same way he should respond to the cops with a gun, it's foolish for any person to get that close to an irrational person with a crowbar.  cop or no cop, gun or no gun, it makes no sense to get that close to someone with a crowbar who clearly isn't thinking right.

end of the day this could've been handled without the crowbar guy being murdered if the cops handled it properly.

 

[rex ryan]

Originally Posted by jdubb2345



If some one is coming after you or friend with any type of weapon do you not make a choice to fight/help.  Its a situation where 1-2 sec more the officer would be injured/killed.

People asking questions about what makes a police officers life more important,  these a authority figures in the community.  This is there job, keep the public safe and uphold the laws.  Do you not try and defend yourself when you are put in a risky situation?  I would protect myself, family,friends etc.  If deadly force is the final result, it is what it is.  

if you get in a fist fight with someone, regardless of the situation, if you hit that person in the wrong place in the head and deadly force is the final result your getting charged, regardless if it's fair or unfair.

of course i would defend myself but i do realize as well that if i shoot someone 10 times i would be charged with murder even if i was defending myself. your supposed to subdue and get the attacker or person who poses a threat under control and anything beyond that is deemed excessive.

regarding a police officers life, when cops die in the line of duty, i feel bad for them and their family of course but i'm not going to put their life on a pedestal because they took that job KNOWING the risks involved and that it's a dangerous job.  they bleed the same blood i bleed so i'm not going to put them on a higher level.

serious question for everyone,  if a regular person who was licenced to carry firearms shot the crowbar guy in the parking lot 10 times, do you think the authorities would deem 10 shots excessive?  also take into consideration that this regular person proceeded to reload his gun after a few shots when it's clear the guy with the crowbar was already down for the count after shot 1 or 2

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

the way i see it is this.   

if me or anyone else on here was walking down the street and some crazy guy with a crowbar tried to run up on us and we shot him 10 times we would be charged with murder so why are the cops given a free pass?

even if we had a firearms licence and were allowed to carry a gun, 10 shots would be deemed excessive if done by a regular person and that is a FACT.  same way if someone breaks in your house, there's been cases where the homeowner was charged for killing or using excessive force on the robber even though the robber posed a legit threat to their life.   why are cops given a free pass to shoot as they please?

no one has still answered the question as well of what makes a cops life more important then a regular persons and i really don't expect that question to be answered either because the answer is that their life isn't more important then a regular persons.

regarding the guy with the crowbar, it's clear he wasn't thinking rationally at the time. who knows what his situation was and he's stupid for not dropping the crowbar, but the same way he should respond to the cops with a gun, it's foolish for any person to get that close to an irrational person with a crowbar.  cop or no cop, gun or no gun, it makes no sense to get that close to someone with a crowbar who clearly isn't thinking right.

end of the day this could've been handled without the crowbar guy being murdered if the cops handled it properly.

I don't think this was every implied, a cop's life is certainly no more important than the lives of law abiding citizens, however a cop's unique situation and dangerous work gives him the right to defend him or herself from perceived threat----if this idiot in the vid were wrested down by a cop and the cop got stabbed and killed people like you would not be defending the cop-We can play this "what if" game all day, but at the end of the day the cop went home safe to his family and his partners which includes the dog were not harmed in the process

 

[rufiorufiorufio]

lol people wanna occupy wall street, start a revolution, but it is clear that people love to be policed.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

Originally Posted by jdubb2345



If some one is coming after you or friend with any type of weapon do you not make a choice to fight/help.  Its a situation where 1-2 sec more the officer would be injured/killed.

People asking questions about what makes a police officers life more important,  these a authority figures in the community.  This is there job, keep the public safe and uphold the laws.  Do you not try and defend yourself when you are put in a risky situation?  I would protect myself, family,friends etc.  If deadly force is the final result, it is what it is.  

if you get in a fist fight with someone, regardless of the situation, if you hit that person in the wrong place in the head and deadly force is the final result your getting charged, regardless if it's fair or unfair.

of course i would defend myself but i do realize as well that if i shoot someone 10 times i would be charged with murder even if i was defending myself. your supposed to subdue and get the attacker or person who poses a threat under control and anything beyond that is deemed excessive.

regarding a police officers life, when cops die in the line of duty, i feel bad for them and their family of course but i'm not going to put their life on a pedestal because they took that job KNOWING the risks involved and that it's a dangerous job.  they bleed the same blood i bleed so i'm not going to put them on a higher level.

serious question for everyone,  if a regular person who was licenced to carry firearms shot the crowbar guy in the parking lot 10 times, do you think the authorities would deem 10 shots excessive?  also take into consideration that this regular person proceeded to reload his gun after a few shots when it's clear the guy with the crowbar was already down for the count after shot 1 or 2

Again, the laws that give cops the right to use such force is due to the inherent danger of their jobs----If a person attacks me with a crowbar chances are he doesn't want to kill me, when people attack cops the intent to kill the cop (so they don't go to jail) has to always be on a cops mind

 

[rex ryan]

eh that's a slipery slope. if someone runs up on you with a crowbar chances are there's a past history between you and that person for them to try and do something like that. while this guy wasn't thinking rational i doubt he's thinking he's going to kill a cop when they have guns pointed at him and dogs and it's just 1 of him with a crowbar.

why the need to reload and shoot some more after he's clearly down for the count already though.

we can agree to disagree all day but i seriously feel the cops could've handled this differently. i'm understanding of the situations their placed in but just because their cops doesn't mean their perfect and they don't make mistakes.



there was a situation in texas where the cops killed a teenager who had a gun at school, i'm with the cops on that situation as that could've been a huge problem but this situation could've been handled differently.

 

[jdubb2345]

There have been cases in which people do there best to defuse the situation,  the person that started the conflict is killed or seriously injured and no charges are filed.  I.e.  kid in florida is being bullied and gets off a bus 2-3 stops before he is supposed to.  Bully ends up being stabbed 12-15 times and kid gets off.  Could have been handled differently, but the end result was someones life coming to a end.  
Not sure if anyone has been tazed before but a normal person that is hit in the face with 80 to 100000 volts usually drops.  If that doesn't faze the person chances are pepper spray won't either.  End result is sad but anyone of use put in the same situation would have acted the same.......KILL OR BE KILLED.

 

[HEATHEN]

I would've emptied the magazine.

 

[rex ryan]

Originally Posted by jdubb2345

There have been cases in which people do there best to defuse the situation,  the person that started the conflict is killed or seriously injured and no charges are filed.  I.e.  kid in florida is being bullied and gets off a bus 2-3 stops before he is supposed to.  Bully ends up being stabbed 12-15 times and kid gets off.  Could have been handled differently, but the end result was someones life coming to a end.  
Not sure if anyone has been tazed before but a normal person that is hit in the face with 80 to 100000 volts usually drops.  If that doesn't faze the person chances are pepper spray won't either.  End result is sad but anyone of use put in the same situation would have acted the same.......KILL OR BE KILLED.

that's understandable. hell i was on the side of the kid who defended himself in florida as he did everything humanly possible to avoid that situation, got hit first, and the bully had a bunch of his boys with him. when it's 1 on 5  the 1 has to do whatever it takes to defend themself

 

[dropten]

Originally Posted by Rex Ryan

even if we had a firearms licence and were allowed to carry a gun, 10 shots would be deemed excessive if done by a regular person and that is a FACT.  same way if someone breaks in your house, there's been cases where the homeowner was charged for killing or using excessive force on the robber even though the robber posed a legit threat to their life.   why are cops given a free pass to shoot as they please?

Thats why you use a shotgun..its like 100 mini shots in one