so Harry Belafonte Condemns Jay-z and beyonce Vol. Bruce Springsteen is black to him

[Sir San Diego]

I see I came in this thread way too late, but how does Harry Belafonte know what Jay-Z or Beyonce do with their money? Do they have to be in the public eye with their contributions for them to count?

People usually look at Jay-Z's wealth as the moral of his story, but what about his determination and dedication. I'm no Jay-Z apologist, but doesn't his drive alone serve as a message to black youth? If nothing else it says, put your mind to it and you can get it done.

I mean damn... he's focused man.

 

[blakep267]

I see I came in this thread way too late, but how does Harry Belafonte know what Jay-Z or Beyonce do with their money? Do they have to be in the public eye with their contributions for them to count?
People usually look at Jay-Z's wealth as the moral of his story, but what about his determination and dedication. I'm no Jay-Z apologist, but doesn't his drive alone serve as a message to black youth? If nothing else it says, put your mind to it and you can get it done.
I mean damn... he's focused man.

its not about the money.

 

[Sir San Diego]

its not about the money.

Tell that to the kids without it though.

I agree that money isn't everything, but it does buy better schools which offer better opportunities.

 

[blakep267]

Tell that to the kids without it though.
I agree that money isn't everything, but it does buy better schools which offer better opportunities.

I meant donating money isnt really the issue. Its about being a public figure and using your influence and reach to better people. Why not have anto drug campaigns in inner cities instead of rapping about what you did in the past etc

donating money secretly and donating money publicly to a cause has 2 totally different effects. Why do you think there are telethons etc. Bringing awareness to things and starting foundations, thats what I got from belafonte

 

[goldenchild9]

what??? how many teens got caught up in that life that never heard a jay-z record? how many haad ill conceived views on women before 1996? i don't see how jay gets the blame for all this? ya'll have these entertainers on pedestals and thats the main issue. you look to them to guide your life, then look to them to help you out when chips are down. but the thing is, jay-z is you b. he's not this higher being. hes a human being that grew up just like every other struggling black youth. the same way you got influenced by jay-z, jay-z got influenced by somebody that shaped how he thought and the choices he made. so when he starts rapping, he didn't make a conscious choice to promote negativity in his music to get rich. thats all dude knew. he was a hustler until 26. if anything, we should give him props for taking those topics out of his music when he got away from that life. and he always gave the flip side of the husltin' coin. but really, all dude is is a hustler turned rapper turned businessman. he wasn't a philanthropist as a hustler, or a rapper, so why would he be as a businessman? better yet, would do we expect him to be. we need to give him props for the initiatives he does take rather than be unappreciative, create this elevated level of expectation and then attack him when he doesn't meet it.

Don't believe the hype.

Have you really listened to Reasonable Doubt? Dude is not some uneducated guerilla. He has always known exactly what he was doing. He did make a conscious choice to promote negativity to sell records. " Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense but I sold 5 mill. I ain't rhymed like Common since." Sean Carter is shrewd and calculating. He has always known exactly what he is doing. He knows how powerful negative Black stereotypes are and how lucrative it is to exploit them....Just like everyone else that pick up a mic. Don't talk up free will and choice...then act like he was a perpetual victim of circumstance, even after he was 30 with millions in his account and stamps all over his passport. Jay has always been an elder statesman in Hip-Hop, Reasonable Doubt dropped when he was 26 going on 27, not when he was 18. Dude came out the gate talking about the rise of millions of Nubians and progressively got more ignorant until he was too rich and too high profile to keep it up.



No one is blaming him for every ill in the Black community but he played his part in furthering much of the negativity. He dominated and shaped the game for 15 years. He was the number 1 dude that shaped my generation. Listen to the intro of "Imaginary Player", he was fully aware of his leadership role. For a good 5 years or so there were dozens of "Jay-Z babies", MCs that replicated the prevailing messages of misogyny, drug dealing and fictitious luxury living found in Jay's work, in an attempt to mimic his musical success.

I came up around dudes from his old hood, Marcy and Tompkins projects. These dudes looked up to Jay as a God. They sold crack to their mothers and aunts out of payphone coin slots and copped the newest German guns to keep up with what Jay was rapping about. They would've had a rough life regardless...but he was the fuel to their foul living. He was the hustlers benchmark and the idol of a generation. Dudes were taking work OT and getting bammed with football numbers in commonwealth states, trying to follow Jay's early blueprint. After he got caught with the gun charge and things hit home for him, then he began to tone it down. If you can see the introspection in his music, don't front like you're blind to the glorification of negativity as well.

I can take the positive from his story, from which there are many, and use that to benefit my life but he definitely has had a significant negative impact and he's definitely sitting on his hands when he can do so much more. Now he's changing his image since becoming a family man so lets see how his career continues to develop but I don't expect much from him. He will continue to play it safe on his way to a billion, interject the timidest of social commentary in his music to keep people hopeful in is potential...but he will never misplace a hair in a serious attempt, not even to help his people rise....but simply to right the wrongs of his past. That's what I get from Jay, he's the classic 10%er.

Like I said, I don't expect anything from a dude like him....he's like a politician but without the facade of professional obligation. He's just like Creflo Dollar except he uses rhymes instead of Bible passages.

 

[goldenchild9]

Double post

 

[Sir San Diego]

I meant donating money isnt really the issue. Its about being a public figure and using your influence and reach to better people. Why not have anto drug campaigns in inner cities instead of rapping about what you did in the past etc
donating money secretly and donating money publicly to a cause has 2 totally different effects. Why do you think there are telethons etc. Bringing awareness to things and starting foundations, thats what I got from belafonte

I agree about the two having different effects, but some people are cautious about becoming too big of a voice for the underclass because of what happened to our leaders in the past. Not saying it's right or that I even agree, but I can respect people being cautious. At the same time, I don't know Jay-Z's motives he may just be private or not really have the kind of personality that is that outspoken outside of music. He's more of a hustler than an activist. He never claimed to be anything outside of that.

I come from the school of thought that addresses issues in private if I have a problem with someone. Belafonte took the ***** route on calling dude out instead of calling him up. Pretty corny way of doing things imo.

 

[va757va]

I come from the school of thought that addresses issues in private if I have a problem with someone. Belafonte took the ***** route on calling dude out instead of calling him up. Pretty corny way of doing things imo.

basically...i came from the hood, like many of u..grandpops raised me by working two jobs as long as i can remember..i come from the bottom, literally...im talking medal detectors in 6th grade, clipse come film their vids in my hood, the real live hood...section 8..the bricks..slums...the park..

jay z is my all time fav celebrity period...before kobe, before mj, before anybody else hov is my boy..

ive never heard a dude say i dropped out to sell drugs cause of jay z..i call women binites cause of jay z...never..not once...

dudes listen to hov while theyre on the block cause its sumn they can relate to..a real voice, who has REALLY been thru what theyre going thru..someone to relate to...they look at hov as the way out...dude gave us the blueprint literally and figuratively...

now..i see both sides..call a spade a spade...jay z could open eyes to young black problems that no other person could..simply because no other person gets love from the middle school hood dudes selling dope, to the richest white man in america selling stocks..nobody else understands both sides like him..

but he doesnt owe it to the black youth, me or you to give bk...dude has given me, and alot of other young black men enough good things to look up to...dude taught us to not give up, to do u no matter the odds...dude has made himself an icon..but u aint gotta be bono, or building gyms named after u to 'give back'

and just look at who were talking about..a very sheltered, very secret type dude...dude invented the subliminal diss...as flashy and gaudy as he is, by rappers means hes rathher modest(queue to quote a verse bout half a billy...lol)..i think when its all said and done, dude wil surprise yall by how much he did outside of the public eye...

 

[superantigen]

Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since

Says it all to me. Says J**** man. I don't think he is in a position where he is allowed to promote the black agenda. I am pretty sure if he did that ht would be muted, censored, or controlled. He has to play the game to stay where he is. He had to play that game to get to where he is.

That is a terrible excuse.


Tell me, who does Jay answer to? Who exactly is keeping him from promoting the black agenda?


It really just boils down to him being too selfish and afraid to say and do anything. Same excuse as "republicans buy shoes too"...


And all this talk about "he doesn't have to do anything if he doesn't want to" is nonsense; his business has largely been in the urban community; his base support is in the urban community; he made his fortune by catering to the urban market---a fortune, which if I may add, was wholly built on pandering to and exploiting inner-city youth naivete (see prostitution, drug dealing, violence, etc). He is where he is at today because he romanticized and glamorized the type of music Kanye appropriately called "crack music".


How many teens, who didn't know any better, have become caught up in that life because Jay made it fashionable to sell drugs? How many young boys have grown into men who objectify women because Jay said "big pimpin'" was the way to go? How many young men constructed ill conceived masculinities based in part on what Jay said on his tapes? Point is, Jay (and other highly successful rappers) have had a significant impact on youth culture in urban settings. Much of this impact, that which stems from the music, has been negative. That being the case, it behooves him and others like him to give back to these communities in a positive way because he's partly to blame for the dirt and grime that has become characteristic of these places.



...

You all don't get it.

You WANTING Jay-Z to do something doesn't mean Jay-Z HAS to do something.

Period.

You are the one who doesn't get.

You like to take every point you don't agree with and warp it into something else.

This thread is largely concerned with social responsibility as it applies to certain transcendent personalities within our consumer culture; however, specifics aside, the topic of discussion is social responsibility as it ultimately applies to all us.

Frankly, I'm baffled at your flippant disregard for the "responsibility" aspect of the phrase. Do you understand what a "responsibility" entails? WE ALL HAVE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES TO FULFILL. It's not something that's optional and/or up for debate. It's your DUTY as a citizen within a larger social community. How you sit there and argue otherwise is beyond me.

Jay is a citizen within various discourse communities. He's a citizen within a community of men; he's a citizen within a community of fathers; he's a citizen within a community of musicians; he's a citizen within a community of entertainers, etc. Of these various affiliations, his citizenship to the community of 1. black 2. male 3. hip-hop (culture) 4. youth (target consumer demographic) is largely responsible for his success and riches. As an advantaged member of the various aforementioned communities, he has a a social responsibility to each of them. He, however, has the biggest social responsibility to the community of black male hip hop youth because this is the community he targeted and most exploited to achieve the "legendary" status he enjoys today; furthermore, of all the communities mentioned, the black male hip-hop youth community is the one most lacking in positive role models-- a situation Jay himself helped to exacerbate with his brand of hip hop.

Say what you want, but Jay OWES the black community. He made it to where he is by poisoning his own people in real life (as a drug dealer) and through his music (glamorizing behavior that was criminal and socially destructive). Exonerating him of RESPONSIBILITY is evidence of your ignorance and points to the fact that you condone the kind of anti-social youth behavior that has resulted in the deteriorating conditions within the black community.

You know, for a "future MD", your blase attitude on the matter of social responsibility is shocking and unsettling.

what??? how many teens got caught up in that life that never heard a jay-z record? how many haad ill conceived views on women before 1996? i don't see how jay gets the blame for all this? ya'll have these entertainers on pedestals and thats the main issue. you look to them to guide your life, then look to them to help you out when chips are down. but the thing is, jay-z is you b. he's not this higher being. hes a human being that grew up just like every other struggling black youth. the same way you got influenced by jay-z, jay-z got influenced by somebody that shaped how he thought and the choices he made. so when he starts rapping, he didn't make a conscious choice to promote negativity in his music to get rich. thats all dude knew. he was a hustler until 26. if anything, we should give him props for taking those topics out of his music when he got away from that life. and he always gave the flip side of the husltin' coin. but really, all dude is is a hustler turned rapper turned businessman. he wasn't a philanthropist as a hustler, or a rapper, so why would he be as a businessman? better yet, would do we expect him to be. we need to give him props for the initiatives he does take rather than be unappreciative, create this elevated level of expectation and then attack him when he doesn't meet it.

And who is blaming jay "for all of this"? Quote me where I am putting all the blame on him. I'll wait.

I specifically stated that "Jay AND other highly successful rappers have a significant impact on youth culture...." Key word is impact, which connotes influence. Saying that Jay has had a significant influence is not equal to what you're saying, which is that Jay is to blame "for all of this."

at him not making a conscious choice. You can't be serious with that excuse .

And what initiatives, solely for the betterment of his fellow citizen and not because it's financially beneficial, does he take?


Edit:

Doing research, stumbled on this: http://newsone.com/2030015/jay-z-beyonce-harry-belafonte/

If Jay and B are really doing these things then I applaud them and congratulate them for being socially responsible citizens who give back to the communities that have largely supported them on their rise.





...

 

[goldenchild9]

Great art?...yes.

Does it add to the toxic environment that chokes out hundreds of thousands of young Black children?....absolutely.

And we all indulge in it too but it affects different people differently.

This freestyle basically sums up Jay and this discussion IMO



His generation...our parents...are still scared of COINTELPRO.

When them devils come to clip your wings, the people don't hold you up before you crash back into the dirt.

No one wants to lead anymore, its easier to hoard, consume and be admired. Leading ad campaigns are much easier than leading social movements.

It would be great to see Jay be a vocal leader for our communities but I understand if thats not him...but s_ dude can't even make a calculated economic investment in the hood, with the potential for profitable returns later? That's what gets me with him.

Son just seems uninterested in anything except yacht trips in St. Tropez...but its his money and his life. Those of us that care just have to fill that void.

 

[goldenchild9]

"I've awaken just to try to school those putos, trying to follow in my shoes with jewels froze. Better adhere to this text before you go...broke, spending more than you accrued on silly baguettes. I know silly begets silly, you'll learn on your own. At least my conscience is clear, I'm no longer steering you wrong. Ain't nutin wrong with baguettes after you get a home, take care of ya home..."

That was his catharsis.

He knows exactly what he did to get what he has. He purposely preached ignorance while keeping his true intelligence hidden.

"Dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars. They criticize me for it yet they all yell Holla"

The cycles sick.

 

[trynafeelmink]

you are making those Lyrics completely black & White right now. That verse alone is pretty much realizing the error of his ways as a young man with money. Do you think Hov was out buying jewelry & big benzes because he wanted to keep the hood in a horrible economic cycle. No he was buying these expensive things because when growing up pour MOST admire those same material possessions.

He's comparing the 40 + year old Jay who now owns several million dollar businesses and rubs shoulders with Billionaire tycoons, to the young rapper out of marcy who was entrenched even before rap in a culture that praises nothing but money and material things. People grow and learn as they get older, obviously jay realizes now that his ways werent the best.

"You can't help the poor if your one of them, so i got rich and gave back to me thats a win win"

Jay-Z did what he had to do to gain power..... Now at the age of 40 he one of the most influential figures in the world........ He goes the Talib, Common, Lupe route we aren't even having this convo because he wouldnt be relevant enough to garner this attention.

 

[solarius49]

Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since

Says it all to me. Says J**** man. I don't think he is in a position where he is allowed to promote the black agenda. I am pretty sure if he did that ht would be muted, censored, or controlled. He has to play the game to stay where he is. He had to play that game to get to where he is.

That is a terrible excuse.


Tell me, who does Jay answer to? Who exactly is keeping him from promoting the black agenda?


It really just boils down to him being too selfish and afraid to say and do anything. Same excuse as "republicans buy shoes too"...


And all this talk about "he doesn't have to do anything if he doesn't want to" is nonsense; his business has largely been in the urban community; his base support is in the urban community; he made his fortune by catering to the urban market---a fortune, which if I may add, was wholly built on pandering to and exploiting inner-city youth naivete (see prostitution, drug dealing, violence, etc). He is where he is at today because he romanticized and glamorized the type of music Kanye appropriately called "crack music".


How many teens, who didn't know any better, have become caught up in that life because Jay made it fashionable to sell drugs? How many young boys have grown into men who objectify women because Jay said "big pimpin'" was the way to go? How many young men constructed ill conceived masculinities based in part on what Jay said on his tapes? Point is, Jay (and other highly successful rappers) have had a significant impact on youth culture in urban settings. Much of this impact, that which stems from the music, has been negative. That being the case, it behooves him and others like him to give back to these communities in a positive way because he's partly to blame for the dirt and grime that has become characteristic of these places.



...

You all don't get it.

You WANTING Jay-Z to do something doesn't mean Jay-Z HAS to do something.

Period.

We get it, you have said it several times. thanks

 

[mr brown]

what??? how many teens got caught up in that life that never heard a jay-z record? how many haad ill conceived views on women before 1996? i don't see how jay gets the blame for all this? ya'll have these entertainers on pedestals and thats the main issue. you look to them to guide your life, then look to them to help you out when chips are down. but the thing is, jay-z is you b. he's not this higher being. hes a human being that grew up just like every other struggling black youth. the same way you got influenced by jay-z, jay-z got influenced by somebody that shaped how he thought and the choices he made. so when he starts rapping, he didn't make a conscious choice to promote negativity in his music to get rich. thats all dude knew. he was a hustler until 26. if anything, we should give him props for taking those topics out of his music when he got away from that life. and he always gave the flip side of the husltin' coin. but really, all dude is is a hustler turned rapper turned businessman. he wasn't a philanthropist as a hustler, or a rapper, so why would he be as a businessman? better yet, would do we expect him to be. we need to give him props for the initiatives he does take rather than be unappreciative, create this elevated level of expectation and then attack him when he doesn't meet it.

Don't believe the hype.

Have you really listened to Reasonable Doubt? Dude is not some uneducated guerilla. He has always known exactly what he was doing. He did make a conscious choice to promote negativity to sell records. " Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense but I sold 5 mill. I ain't rhymed like Common since." Sean Carter is shrewd and calculating. He has always known exactly what he is doing. He knows how powerful negative Black stereotypes are and how lucrative it is to exploit them....Just like everyone else that pick up a mic. Don't talk up free will and choice...then act like he was a perpetual victim of circumstance, even after he was 30 with millions in his account and stamps all over his passport. Jay has always been an elder statesman in Hip-Hop, Reasonable Doubt dropped when he was 26 going on 27, not when he was 18. Dude came out the gate talking about the rise of millions of Nubians and progressively got more ignorant until he was too rich and too high profile to keep it up.



No one is blaming him for every ill in the Black community but he played his part in furthering much of the negativity. He dominated and shaped the game for 15 years. He was the number 1 dude that shaped my generation. Listen to the intro of "Imaginary Player", he was fully aware of his leadership role. For a good 5 years or so there were dozens of "Jay-Z babies", MCs that replicated the prevailing messages of misogyny, drug dealing and fictitious luxury living found in Jay's work, in an attempt to mimic his musical success.

I came up around dudes from his old hood, Marcy and Tompkins projects. These dudes looked up to Jay as a God. They sold crack to their mothers and aunts out of payphone coin slots and copped the newest German guns to keep up with what Jay was rapping about. They would've had a rough life regardless...but he was the fuel to their foul living. He was the hustlers benchmark and the idol of a generation. Dudes were taking work OT and getting bammed with football numbers in commonwealth states, trying to follow Jay's early blueprint. After he got caught with the gun charge and things hit home for him, then he began to tone it down. If you can see the introspection in his music, don't front like you're blind to the glorification of negativity as well.

I can take the positive from his story, from which there are many, and use that to benefit my life but he definitely has had a significant negative impact and he's definitely sitting on his hands when he can do so much more. Now he's changing his image since becoming a family man so lets see how his career continues to develop but I don't expect much from him. He will continue to play it safe on his way to a billion, interject the timidest of social commentary in his music to keep people hopeful in is potential...but he will never misplace a hair in a serious attempt, not even to help his people rise....but simply to right the wrongs of his past. That's what I get from Jay, he's the classic 10%er.

Like I said, I don't expect anything from a dude like him....he's like a politician but without the facade of professional obligation. He's just like Creflo Dollar except he uses rhymes instead of Bible passages.

while i disagree with alot of what you wrote, i'm just going to address the part i bolded, because thats probably the only point we'll reach an understanding. my whole point was a dude like jay-z, he's a hustler, turned rapper, turned businessman...where do we get an expectation of him to be the face of social change..itd be great if he did, but to knock him for not being that is crazy. the positive things he does do, we should appreciate. he flipped his whole image in the span of his career. appreciate that. why does that have to be a vindicative move? why does positive subject matter have to be a calculated move with an ulterior motive? and if so, who cares what his objective is? because something earns you more money, its bad? its better than kicking negativity right? a lot of wealthy people contribute to charity for the tax break IN ADDITION to the social causes. i'm not knocking any of them for that though. i'm appreciative that they are contributing.

edit:
my biggest issue is harry belafonte singled out jay-z and beyonce because its jay-z and beyonce. because they are the "it" couple in black america, they are easy targets. there are a lot of prominent black figures today, many of which i wouldn't consider social activist. but they do contribute. its a different time. if he wouldve said prominent blacks as whole need to do more, i would've rocked with that.

 

[mr brown]

you are making those Lyrics completely black & White right now. That verse alone is pretty much realizing the error of his ways as a young man with money. Do you think Hov was out buying jewelry & big benzes because he wanted to keep the hood in a horrible economic cycle. No he was buying these expensive things because when growing up pour MOST admire those same material possessions.

He's comparing the 40 + year old Jay who now owns several million dollar businesses and rubs shoulders with Billionaire tycoons, to the young rapper out of marcy who was entrenched even before rap in a culture that praises nothing but money and material things. People grow and learn as they get older, obviously jay realizes now that his ways werent the best.

"You can't help the poor if your one of them, so i got rich and gave back to me thats a win win"

Jay-Z did what he had to do to gain power..... Now at the age of 40 he one of the most influential figures in the world........ He goes the Talib, Common, Lupe route we aren't even having this convo because he wouldnt be relevant enough to garner this attention.

exactly. dude feels some type of way about jay-z as an individual so everything jay-z does, this guy contort to fit his overall image of who jay-z is. so when jay does contribute to positive movements, its not enough and really its just a ploy to right past wrongs? come on man...

 

[mr brown]

Great art?...yes.

Does it add to the toxic environment that chokes out hundreds of thousands of young Black children?....absolutely.

And we all indulge in it too but it affects different people differently.

This freestyle basically sums up Jay and this discussion IMO



His generation...our parents...are still scared of COINTELPRO.

When them devils come to clip your wings, the people don't hold you up before you crash back into the dirt.

No one wants to lead anymore, its easier to hoard, consume and be admired. Leading ad campaigns are much easier than leading social movements.

It would be great to see Jay be a vocal leader for our communities but I understand if thats not him...but s_ dude can't even make a calculated economic investment in the hood, with the potential for profitable returns later? That's what gets me with him.

Son just seems uninterested in anything except yacht trips in St. Tropez...but its his money and his life. Those of us that care just have to fill that void.

what are you talking about? really? why are you dissecting his lyrics so hard? you're too consumed with jay-z the rapper. think about the man. you really don't think he's made investments in Brooklyn, regardless of return? you honestly think he hasn't made any positive contributions to society? do you want a 16 or a full song highlighting the philanthropy he's taken on?

 

[mr brown]

Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since

Says it all to me. Says J**** man. I don't think he is in a position where he is allowed to promote the black agenda. I am pretty sure if he did that ht would be muted, censored, or controlled. He has to play the game to stay where he is. He had to play that game to get to where he is.

That is a terrible excuse.


Tell me, who does Jay answer to? Who exactly is keeping him from promoting the black agenda?


It really just boils down to him being too selfish and afraid to say and do anything. Same excuse as "republicans buy shoes too"...


And all this talk about "he doesn't have to do anything if he doesn't want to" is nonsense; his business has largely been in the urban community; his base support is in the urban community; he made his fortune by catering to the urban market---a fortune, which if I may add, was wholly built on pandering to and exploiting inner-city youth naivete (see prostitution, drug dealing, violence, etc). He is where he is at today because he romanticized and glamorized the type of music Kanye appropriately called "crack music".


How many teens, who didn't know any better, have become caught up in that life because Jay made it fashionable to sell drugs? How many young boys have grown into men who objectify women because Jay said "big pimpin'" was the way to go? How many young men constructed ill conceived masculinities based in part on what Jay said on his tapes? Point is, Jay (and other highly successful rappers) have had a significant impact on youth culture in urban settings. Much of this impact, that which stems from the music, has been negative. That being the case, it behooves him and others like him to give back to these communities in a positive way because he's partly to blame for the dirt and grime that has become characteristic of these places.



...

You all don't get it.

You WANTING Jay-Z to do something doesn't mean Jay-Z HAS to do something.

Period.

You are the one who doesn't get.

You like to take every point you don't agree with and warp it into something else.

This thread is largely concerned with social responsibility as it applies to certain transcendent personalities within our consumer culture; however, specifics aside, the topic of discussion is social responsibility as it ultimately applies to all us.

Frankly, I'm baffled at your flippant disregard for the "responsibility" aspect of the phrase. Do you understand what a "responsibility" entails? WE ALL HAVE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES TO FULFILL. It's not something that's optional and/or up for debate. It's your DUTY as a citizen within a larger social community. How you sit there and argue otherwise is beyond me.

Jay is a citizen within various discourse communities. He's a citizen within a community of men; he's a citizen within a community of fathers; he's a citizen within a community of musicians; he's a citizen within a community of entertainers, etc. Of these various affiliations, his citizenship to the community of 1. black 2. male 3. hip-hop (culture) 4. youth (target consumer demographic) is largely responsible for his success and riches. As an advantaged member of the various aforementioned communities, he has a a social responsibility to each of them. He, however, has the biggest social responsibility to the community of black male hip hop youth because this is the community he targeted and most exploited to achieve the "legendary" status he enjoys today; furthermore, of all the communities mentioned, the black male hip-hop youth community is the one most lacking in positive role models-- a situation Jay himself helped to exacerbate with his brand of hip hop.

Say what you want, but Jay OWES the black community. He made it to where he is by poisoning his own people in real life (as a drug dealer) and through his music (glamorizing behavior that was criminal and socially destructive). Exonerating him of RESPONSIBILITY is evidence of your ignorance and points to the fact that you condone the kind of anti-social youth behavior that has resulted in the deteriorating conditions within the black community.

You know, for a "future MD", your blase attitude on the matter of social responsibility is shocking and unsettling.

what??? how many teens got caught up in that life that never heard a jay-z record? how many haad ill conceived views on women before 1996? i don't see how jay gets the blame for all this? ya'll have these entertainers on pedestals and thats the main issue. you look to them to guide your life, then look to them to help you out when chips are down. but the thing is, jay-z is you b. he's not this higher being. hes a human being that grew up just like every other struggling black youth. the same way you got influenced by jay-z, jay-z got influenced by somebody that shaped how he thought and the choices he made. so when he starts rapping, he didn't make a conscious choice to promote negativity in his music to get rich. thats all dude knew. he was a hustler until 26. if anything, we should give him props for taking those topics out of his music when he got away from that life. and he always gave the flip side of the husltin' coin. but really, all dude is is a hustler turned rapper turned businessman. he wasn't a philanthropist as a hustler, or a rapper, so why would he be as a businessman? better yet, would do we expect him to be. we need to give him props for the initiatives he does take rather than be unappreciative, create this elevated level of expectation and then attack him when he doesn't meet it.

And who is blaming jay "for all of this"? Quote me where I am putting all the blame on him. I'll wait.

I specifically stated that "Jay AND other highly successful rappers have a significant impact on youth culture...." Key word is impact, which connotes influence. Saying that Jay has had a significant influence is not equal to what you're saying, which is that Jay is to blame "for all of this."

at him not making a conscious choice. You can't be serious with that excuse .

And what initiatives, solely for the betterment of his fellow citizen and not because it's financially beneficial, does he take?


Edit:

Doing research, stumbled on this: http://newsone.com/2030015/jay-z-beyonce-harry-belafonte/

If Jay and B are really doing these things then I applaud them and congratulate them for being socially responsible citizens who give back to the communities that have largely supported them on their rise.





...

you asked an open ended question and in the context, it implied he was of large responsibility. my comment about conscious choice was that he is just a hustler turned rapper. he rapped about what he knew. the topics he rap about were negative and didn't help things in black community, but at the end of the day, he was trying to make it in the rap industry that already had its formula set. if it wasn't jay, another negative topical rapper would've been in the spotlight, and the same negativity would've hit the black community.

what about this





edit:

that article is what i'm talking about. thanks for posting. all that stuff goes under the radar. the people that get helped out don't think jay-z doesn't do enough. i don't see how mr belafonte could know of all those foundations, and if he did, i don't get how he could see them, and say jay-z isn't doing enough.

 

[truthgetsbusy]

Republicans buy sneakers too - MJ

 

[goldenchild9]

First off all, I never highlighted those quotes to indicate that Jay "wanted to keep the hood in a horrible economic cycle."...that's ridiculous.

Y'all seem to be the ones having a hard time distinguishing Jay-Z from Sean Carter. The man clearly has several different musical personas, each spewing varying degrees of truth and artistic integrity. At times he's been everyday Jay, sometimes he was Jay the hustler, often he rapped as the ice cold pimp Iceberg Slim, other times he was Hov the God MC, 6 f**** J****, etc. But sometimes he clearly spoke as Sean Carter, the flesh and blood man. It was at these times that you gleaned the most insight into his moments of clarity and self-reflection. That is what I was referencing with those quotes and what the crux of this discussion is about.

We have all spoken to his climb up the social ladder and how one could use that as motivation, if they crave that brand of accomplishment. But for some reason you're refusing to take into account Jay's conscious complicity in furthering the allure of negativity in our communities.

Y'all can't act like Jay-Z was just an ignorant victim of circumstances and sidestep the fact that he has always been a brilliant marketer. He was in his videos, before his debut album dropped, racing rented speedboats and spilling champagne in an admitted attempt to set himself apart from the pack. If he was just following in the footstep of the hood he would have wore yellow gold and had a Benz on his album cover like all of his peers. Instead he rocked platinum and bought Bentleys to the table. Maybe y'all are too young to remember but Puff and Jay really introduced all this high-end luxury stuff to the game and had a majority of Hip-Hop trying to mimic their moves in the 90's. Even regular working cats started copping white gold and Cristal to keep up with the joneses. Budweiser didn't put him in charge of their Premium beer line advertising for no reason. Brothers are brilliant at promotion.

Jay's image and content is very intentional. Since Reasonable Doubt he has known how to make sound financial decisions..."I don't lease, I buy the whole car as you should." But when that message didn't sell well enough, he "dumbed it down to double his dollars". Jay-Z knows the effects of dangling flashy items in front of poor people, everyone does. Thats why rappers are the only musicians that really rap about luxury items like that, because their core following is the poorest...it automatically puts them on a pedestal. Yes a misguided pursuit of luxury materialism is part of the ghetto pathology, that rappers as former ghetto inhabitant also succumb to, but certain cats have also made a career profiting off of poor hood habits. Cats will have all types of stock investments, tax strategies, and complex investment schemes behind the scene and be spitting out champagne, talking about how they're still moving bricks and literally burning cash when in the public eye. Its disingenuous.....

But its marketing and I get that.

Like everything else responsibility is a factor, though.

 

[futuremd]

Lets just tell rappers how to rap and get mad when they get famous and don't give back.

 

[mr brown]

^ exactly.

golden i hear you man. im not debating jay-z's intents as a rapper. i know he was in it to get rich. hes said so in his raps time and time again. all im saying in that regard is that even in his pursuit to get rich, hes still taken moments to speak on real issues or positive subjects. thats more than alot of rappers. but its really neither here nor there

my main question in all this is... why should i expect jayz to rap about positivity. why should i expect him to give more to time or effort to charity? why should i expect anything more from him than what he chooses to do? his goal in hustlin' was to get r$, his goal in rap was to get $, his goal in business is to get $...what from anything he's shown us to this point would cause you to create expectations for him as a social activist? you've said in your posts you're not going to expect much from him at all. that's my main point. we shouldnt. nor should we get mad when he doesn't rap about positivity or fully embrace being a social figure for change. he is who we thought he was.

 

[goldenchild9]

Lets just tell rappers how to rap and get mad when they get famous and don't give back.

I don't understand the point of this statement.

 

[goldenchild9]

^ exactly.
golden i hear you man. im not debating jay-z's intents as a rapper. i know he was in it to get rich. hes said so in his raps time and time again. all im saying in that regard is that even in his pursuit to get rich, hes still taken moments to speak on real issues or positive subjects. thats more than alot of rappers. but its really neither here nor there
my main question in all this is... why should i expect jayz to rap about positivity. why should i expect him to give more to time or effort to charity? why should i expect anything more from him than what he chooses to do? his goal in hustlin' was to get r$, his goal in rap was to get $, his goal in business is to get $...what from anything he's shown us to this point would cause you to create expectations for him as a social activist? you've said in your posts you're not going to expect much from him at all. that's my main point. we shouldnt. nor should we get mad when he doesn't rap about positivity or fully embrace being a social figure for change. he is who we thought he was.

So businesses should have no responsibility to the greater society...as long as they are profitable everything is all good?

And if he is what we thought he was...why get mad at Harry for calling a spade a spade?

I'm a huge fan of Jay's work. I think he's a brilliant mind...I just wish his social conscience was even a fraction of his seemingly insatiable lust for wealth.

 

[Pathos]

"I know they gonna criticize the hook on this song

Like I give a ****, I'm just a crook on a song"

 

[mr brown]

^ exactly.
golden i hear you man. im not debating jay-z's intents as a rapper. i know he was in it to get rich. hes said so in his raps time and time again. all im saying in that regard is that even in his pursuit to get rich, hes still taken moments to speak on real issues or positive subjects. thats more than alot of rappers. but its really neither here nor there
my main question in all this is... why should i expect jayz to rap about positivity. why should i expect him to give more to time or effort to charity? why should i expect anything more from him than what he chooses to do? his goal in hustlin' was to get r$, his goal in rap was to get $, his goal in business is to get $...what from anything he's shown us to this point would cause you to create expectations for him as a social activist? you've said in your posts you're not going to expect much from him at all. that's my main point. we shouldnt. nor should we get mad when he doesn't rap about positivity or fully embrace being a social figure for change. he is who we thought he was.

So businesses should have no responsibility to the greater society...as long as they are profitable everything is all good?

And if he is what we thought he was...why get mad at Harry for calling a spade a spade?

I'm a huge fan of Jay's work. I think he's a brilliant mind...I just wish his social conscience was even a fraction of his seemingly insatiable lust for wealth.

businesses responsibility is to their stakeholders. which includes communities they operate in. so in that context, yes i believe businesses have responsibility to promoting social good. but should that be their primary goal? there's been numerous debates on this topic in business. well thats up to them. idealistically, the answer is yes, but in reality no, businesses can strive to make money first and foremost, and give back secondly, and i'll applaud their efforts. i guess you could say a rapper owes it to his listeners to promote a positive message. ill agree with that but to what extent? jay-z's first goal was to grow listeners, to even get to a point where he can make an impact. that was HIS goal. thats why he got in the rap game. the rap game is what it is. once he gets to that top level of visibility, i expect him to change his message up. which i felt he did in his career and in his life. not enough for some? cool, i can respect that.

im didnt like harry's comment because 1 it overlooks the positives jay-z has done, and 2 whats the point of coming off like that? im sure his goal is to get people to do more. but attacking someone like that isn't the most effective way

i'll rock with that last statement. the world would be a much better place if many prominent people had that minset.