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mariners are stacked with pitching. these dudes had both of last years cy youngs on the team.
Source: Yankees trade Montero to Mariners for Pineda
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Air273,
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mariners are stacked with pitching. these dudes had both of last years cy youngs on the team.
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True, both teams got filled a need with a blue-chip prospect, but the Yanks got the better prospect and thus the better end of the deal. Also, it's poor work by the M's front office. Could have easily had Montero in exchange for a few months of Cliff Lee, but now you're giving up five years of control over a 22 year old potential ace for him?
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Losing Montero sucks but we can easily replaced his bat..
Yankees are stacked with pitching now.. I think that Burnett is a goner.
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There was at least one other pitcher the Mariners didn't want to give up. I think that's what killed it.
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Great move imo...I know we have all waited for Montero to come up, but lets be honest we need some damn pitching
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i dont know how i feel about this... i mean thats our future catcher that would have replaced jorge
Montero can't catch though
You guys are smoking crack if you don't like this trade. Like abovelegit said, FIVE years of control for a 22 year old pitcher. Yes, we gave up the best hitting prospect the last couple of years and I really hate giving up his bat. But for one, we only lose him instead of one of Banuelos/Betances and we get to let them have an opportunity to get more polished in the minors instead of rushing them to the majors when Nova regresses and AJ disappears again.
I don't see why Mariners fans would be mad either. Great pitcher but you get a great hitter who hits to all sides of the field and you need offense with the historically terrible offense you guys have. Your top 4/5 prospects are pitchers, they'll be good with Felix leading the way.
You guys are smoking crack if you don't like this trade. Like abovelegit said, FIVE years of control for a 22 year old pitcher. Yes, we gave up the best hitting prospect the last couple of years and I really hate giving up his bat. But for one, we only lose him instead of one of Banuelos/Betances and we get to let them have an opportunity to get more polished in the minors instead of rushing them to the majors when Nova regresses and AJ disappears again.
I don't see why Mariners fans would be mad either. Great pitcher but you get a great hitter who hits to all sides of the field and you need offense with the historically terrible offense you guys have. Your top 4/5 prospects are pitchers, they'll be good with Felix leading the way.
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Exactly how I feel. Maybe it could have been handled more efficiently, but if they didn't get a big bat in the lineup soon, not only would Pineda have been useless, but also the peak of Felix's career.
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Score one for seattle.
Damn it.
Damn it.
They do need a fair amount to go right to be able to correct the offense but they're not very farfetched. Ichiro needs to come back a bit and I think he will with his BABIP stabilizing. Gutierrez needs to find his bat and I think that's possible. He had a crippling injury last year. Smoak needs to start realizing some of that potential. People dump on the kid but he had a really bad year last season. His dad passed away and he had a bad thumb injury which sapped his bat speed and power. Montero and Ackley need to keep taking steps forward and I think they both will. In that park, right handed power is killed. Montero's power is the other way. I don't think they're that far away.
I'm still not understanding why it's an instant decline. A guy who's probably going to make $22 million from arbitration + no team control for a team that doesn't pay that kind of money and also needs offense and also has good arms/knows their park makes pitchers better than they are? I don't see that as an instant decline from the Giants end. But then again, Sabean ain't all that bright
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Originally Posted by dland24
And some of you guys laughed at me when I said Montero for Lincecum was laughable and an instant decline from the Giants end.
I'm still not understanding why it's an instant decline. A guy who's probably going to make $22 million from arbitration + no team control for a team that doesn't pay that kind of money and also needs offense and also has good arms/knows their park makes pitchers better than they are? I don't see that as an instant decline from the Giants end. But then again, Sabean ain't all that bright
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That, and by adding a huge bat, Felix doesn't have to keep being perfect every night. Dude goes out every start knowing he can't give up more than one or two runs. If that keeps up, he's never going to stick around. Maybe not the greatest deal in the world, but if the M's don't pick up a huge bat, they risk losing Felix down the road just out of sheer frustration.
Keith Law's take.
Spoiler [+]
The trade between the Yankees and Mariners looks to me like a way for each team to fill a critical need for the long term rather than the short, with the Mariners trading from a real surplus while the Yankees trade a potential star whose only real path to playing time was one the Yankees didn't seem to want to use. Both teams will benefit in the long run, but I'd give a slight edge here to Seattle because of the greater probability of the bat they acquired.
[+] EnlargeJesus Montero
Jim McIsaac/Getty ImagesGo AL West young man.
The Mariners get Jesus Montero, an impact bat without a position; the Yankees have been trying to convince everyone that he'd stay at catcher, but he's too big and slow to stay at the position and, despite some arm strength, takes a year and a half to get rid of the ball. Fortunately for Montero and the M's, his bat will play anywhere, including at DH, which is probably his ultimate destination (or first base). One of the top ten prospects in the game right now, Montero will hit for average, get on base, and hit for power, with unusual strength that allows him to crush the ball even when hitting off his front foot a la Frank Thomas. He came down with a little bigleagueitis early in 2011 as he waited in the minors, and his approach deteriorated, but it bounced back in the second half of the minor league season and he hit for more contact and more power. He has great bat speed, can turn on a fastball on the inner half or even in on his hands, and yet is strong enough to drive the ball out the other way. He's an offensive monster even without any defensive home.
The Mariners also add right-hander Hector Noesi, a four-pitch starter with plus control (just 60 unintentional walks in 377 career minor league innings) who'll sit in the low 90s as a starter but lacks a true out pitch, succeeding in the minors with location and his ability to change speeds. Noesi's slider is probably his best pitch, but he needs to improve his changeup to avoid getting crushed by lefty-heavy lineups. There's number-four starter potential here with some improvement to his secondary stuff.
The Yankees get Michael Pineda, a young starter with front-of-the-rotation potential and five years of team control remaining, although he's not quite the finished product his superficial stats in 2011 might indicate. Pineda has a plus-plus fastball and plus slider, both capable of missing bats right now. His slider is very hard both in velocity and in break, mostly vertical, and he is pretty consistent with his ability to throw it down and away to right-handers. The fastball is fairly straight, which has made Pineda somewhat flyball-prone -- good in Safeco Field, less good in the Bronx -- and his changeup remains fringy, so he's still somewhat susceptible to better left-handed bats. He's a physical monster, listed at 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds, built like he can handle 220 innings a year, and if he can keep the ball in the park should slot in as an excellent second starter behind CC Sabathia, eventually taking over the No. 1 spot as Sabathia nears the end of his contract. There's a caution, however: don't be surprised if Pineda's 2012 looks a lot worse than his 2011 with the change in ballparks, loss of Seattle's great defense behind him, and shift to a tougher division.
Jose Campos is the lottery ticket in the deal, and could very well turn this deal into a steal for the Yankees four or five years down the road. He's an extreme strike-thrower with an above-average fastball that will touch 95, and a slider that shows above-average but isn't consistent yet. Campos needs to work on his changeup and has yet to pitch in a full-season league, so he's several years away from the majors. He's also young enough that the injury risk is still significant, and I'd like to see him get over his front side better as he finishes his delivery. But he won't turn 20 until July, and if he were in the draft this year he'd be a first-rounder, so for the Yanks it's almost like getting an extra draft pick in the deal.
The move fits Brian Cashman's preference to develop arms and buy bats, and when Campos fills out his 6-foot-4 frame, the Yanks could end up with two guys in their top three rotation spots from the trade.
[+] EnlargeJesus Montero
Jim McIsaac/Getty ImagesGo AL West young man.
The Mariners get Jesus Montero, an impact bat without a position; the Yankees have been trying to convince everyone that he'd stay at catcher, but he's too big and slow to stay at the position and, despite some arm strength, takes a year and a half to get rid of the ball. Fortunately for Montero and the M's, his bat will play anywhere, including at DH, which is probably his ultimate destination (or first base). One of the top ten prospects in the game right now, Montero will hit for average, get on base, and hit for power, with unusual strength that allows him to crush the ball even when hitting off his front foot a la Frank Thomas. He came down with a little bigleagueitis early in 2011 as he waited in the minors, and his approach deteriorated, but it bounced back in the second half of the minor league season and he hit for more contact and more power. He has great bat speed, can turn on a fastball on the inner half or even in on his hands, and yet is strong enough to drive the ball out the other way. He's an offensive monster even without any defensive home.
The Mariners also add right-hander Hector Noesi, a four-pitch starter with plus control (just 60 unintentional walks in 377 career minor league innings) who'll sit in the low 90s as a starter but lacks a true out pitch, succeeding in the minors with location and his ability to change speeds. Noesi's slider is probably his best pitch, but he needs to improve his changeup to avoid getting crushed by lefty-heavy lineups. There's number-four starter potential here with some improvement to his secondary stuff.
The Yankees get Michael Pineda, a young starter with front-of-the-rotation potential and five years of team control remaining, although he's not quite the finished product his superficial stats in 2011 might indicate. Pineda has a plus-plus fastball and plus slider, both capable of missing bats right now. His slider is very hard both in velocity and in break, mostly vertical, and he is pretty consistent with his ability to throw it down and away to right-handers. The fastball is fairly straight, which has made Pineda somewhat flyball-prone -- good in Safeco Field, less good in the Bronx -- and his changeup remains fringy, so he's still somewhat susceptible to better left-handed bats. He's a physical monster, listed at 6-foot-7 and 260 pounds, built like he can handle 220 innings a year, and if he can keep the ball in the park should slot in as an excellent second starter behind CC Sabathia, eventually taking over the No. 1 spot as Sabathia nears the end of his contract. There's a caution, however: don't be surprised if Pineda's 2012 looks a lot worse than his 2011 with the change in ballparks, loss of Seattle's great defense behind him, and shift to a tougher division.
Jose Campos is the lottery ticket in the deal, and could very well turn this deal into a steal for the Yankees four or five years down the road. He's an extreme strike-thrower with an above-average fastball that will touch 95, and a slider that shows above-average but isn't consistent yet. Campos needs to work on his changeup and has yet to pitch in a full-season league, so he's several years away from the majors. He's also young enough that the injury risk is still significant, and I'd like to see him get over his front side better as he finishes his delivery. But he won't turn 20 until July, and if he were in the draft this year he'd be a first-rounder, so for the Yanks it's almost like getting an extra draft pick in the deal.
The move fits Brian Cashman's preference to develop arms and buy bats, and when Campos fills out his 6-foot-4 frame, the Yanks could end up with two guys in their top three rotation spots from the trade.
Bend_The_Knee
formerly gotholesinmysocks
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CC
Nova
Pineda
Kuroda
AJ/Hughes/Garcia
Pineda finished the 2011 season with a 9-10 record and a 3.74 ERA. In 28 starts, he struck out 173 hitters while walking just 55 over 171 innings.
platano power at 2 & 3
Nova
Pineda
Kuroda
AJ/Hughes/Garcia
Pineda finished the 2011 season with a 9-10 record and a 3.74 ERA. In 28 starts, he struck out 173 hitters while walking just 55 over 171 innings.
platano power at 2 & 3
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I miss Jesus already but this trade will be great for both teams.
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#BASEDCASH
I wish Montero would've gotten more of a chance. Honestly, dude has been a goner from day 1...
BUT...
We still keep the Killer B's AND Nova? WIN.
I wish Montero would've gotten more of a chance. Honestly, dude has been a goner from day 1...
BUT...
We still keep the Killer B's AND Nova? WIN.
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And the Yanks still have Romine and Gaby Sanchez on the comeup. The Yanks should be fine at catcher for the next decade or so. At worse Romine is a very solid backup once Sanchez develops. But he could grow into the "power" that scouts have been saying that he should so I'm still holding my fingers crossed that Romine turns into something big. But overall I really like this trade a lot, I just hope that Hughes gets the chance to start at the back end of the rotation.
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^
Dudes don't waste no time.
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This is a great trade for the Yankees, fans of New York who don't like this trade don't understand the dynamics.
The name Jesus Montero is what everyone was infatuated with, it's been drilled into New York Yankees fans heads for years now, he is like the lochnes monster, the mythical story, but the results just haven't been there yet. Given, there was a small sample size, but it's the aura.
The other key with Montero is that he just isn't a catcher for the Yankees, he wasn't projected to be a successful one anymore. He is being regarded now as a possible catcher, but more likely a DH and 1st baseman, kinda like Jason Giambi.
The fact that on the Yankees he didn't have a position was a big factor in this trade in my opinion. The Yankees currently have a ton of old bodies that will need to filtered in and out of the DH spot for half days of rest. Guys like Jeter, Tex, AROD, etc. With Montero unable to be a fulltime catcher for 9 innings, once he is in the DH hole he cripples Girardi's ability to manage. AROD is forced to either sit out of play 3rd, and so on.
He is projected to have a great bat, opposite power, but it's easier to find a solid bat then it is an anchor for a pitching staff, like Pineda is projected to be.
With Pineda the Yankees have a young core of Nova, Pineda, Banuelos, Betances, Hughes and more in the system. Add now CC, Kuroda, Garcia, (and AJ although he may get dealt, doubtful though)
This deal is a homerun for the Yankees, and once the casual fans who haven't seen Pineda see how electric his stuff is they will come around.
Welcome to the Bronx Michael Pineda.
The name Jesus Montero is what everyone was infatuated with, it's been drilled into New York Yankees fans heads for years now, he is like the lochnes monster, the mythical story, but the results just haven't been there yet. Given, there was a small sample size, but it's the aura.
The other key with Montero is that he just isn't a catcher for the Yankees, he wasn't projected to be a successful one anymore. He is being regarded now as a possible catcher, but more likely a DH and 1st baseman, kinda like Jason Giambi.
The fact that on the Yankees he didn't have a position was a big factor in this trade in my opinion. The Yankees currently have a ton of old bodies that will need to filtered in and out of the DH spot for half days of rest. Guys like Jeter, Tex, AROD, etc. With Montero unable to be a fulltime catcher for 9 innings, once he is in the DH hole he cripples Girardi's ability to manage. AROD is forced to either sit out of play 3rd, and so on.
He is projected to have a great bat, opposite power, but it's easier to find a solid bat then it is an anchor for a pitching staff, like Pineda is projected to be.
With Pineda the Yankees have a young core of Nova, Pineda, Banuelos, Betances, Hughes and more in the system. Add now CC, Kuroda, Garcia, (and AJ although he may get dealt, doubtful though)
This deal is a homerun for the Yankees, and once the casual fans who haven't seen Pineda see how electric his stuff is they will come around.
Welcome to the Bronx Michael Pineda.
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actually, they understand that pine's fb doesnt move and up to this point in his career, hes a flyball pitcher
that worked great in safeco...not so much in ur ll park
that being said, he's a solid 2 with 1 potential
i think its good for both squads, esp as montero is positionless
that worked great in safeco...not so much in ur ll park
that being said, he's a solid 2 with 1 potential
i think its good for both squads, esp as montero is positionless
Yes, the one year that he has in his career he's been a flyball pitcher. Next year will be a sort of a reality check to during the first half of the season but he's 22, he'll adjust. His FB does need a touch of work but his FB lcoation and secondary pitches are that good. This is a kid who at 22 had a top 5 swing & miss percentage in MLB. He has an incredible command of the strike zone
Nova won't be #2 or #3 on this staff
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Love this move. Even if Pineda pitches at a 4 level ERA, it's an upgrade for the Yankees.
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Seems like a fairly equal trade, Yanks get a young pitcher something they really need since they are getting old and the Mariners who are the worst offensive team get a young bat with a lot of potential.
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I would like this trade if i actually seen Pineda pitch. With Posada retiring i was hoping the Yanks would work Montero into some starting catcher duties here and there. His bat i think is going to be very much missed, Montero has the potential to be a Buster Posey type of catcher.
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We'll see how this plays out.. but Montergod gave us some great games last year.. he will be missed.