(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[Case]

Just started reading the books on Saturday and I'm up to page 600..GRRM can flat out tell a story like I've never seen before..Love his attention to detail and imagination..Just wish I didn't have several thousand pages to go..

 

[tdogg2k]

I DONT WANT JON AS A DAMN WOLF. I WANT HIM AS JON ******* SNOW

Lol how about back in to stannis body hahahahahahaahahaha

 

[pitman13]

I may be in that small minority that thing Stannis is a live. as someone said Brienne has no reason to keep him alive, but also really had no reason to kill him... she can't punish him for killing a king. if Renly truly wasn't a king.

same as she didn't kill the hound at the end of it all. ..

That hound logic is asinine. She hit Sandor over the head with a stone several times and then he fell off a cliff. She assumed The Hound was dead. If she had an incline he was alive, she would've shoved her sword through his neck the same way she did Stannis. I'm sure of it.

Show Stannis isn't dead.

Again, name one character on the show that has died off screen. Especially a main character. The fact that D&D said "It's important we showed Ned Stark's head come off. It's important viewers knew we weren't playing a trick on them, that they see the characters die to know that they'e really dead."

***NEWSFLASH***

Your beloved Stannis is dead & good riddance.

Accept it and move on.

I DONT WANT JON AS A DAMN WOLF. I WANT HIM AS JON ******* SNOW

But that's what presumably happens in the books. Jon wargs into Ghost. D&D are just following what we all assume happens in TWoW.

 

[tdogg2k]

^thats speculation and not proven that he wargs.

You're mixing too much show stuff in your assumptions

Again the show is somewhat rushing the story along for tv
The things that havent happened in the book thats happened in the show. More than likely wont be in the book.
IE: nights king and hard homme.

Brienne.
Etc etc.

As it stands Stannis is alive..maybe not well but alive and shouldnt have as worthless of a fight as what we saw on tv

Why you so mad at stannis though. He didnt really burn shireen nor does he have the outlet to even give the word. He was going to sacrifice a Bastard but didnt want to And even made davos his hand.

 

[Barbados Slim]

^^ Didn't one of the show runners say the Shireen sacrifice is going to happen in the books? 

 

[riverdale road]

Just started reading the books on Saturday and I'm up to page 600..GRRM can flat out tell a story like I've never seen before..Love his attention to detail and imagination..Just wish I didn't have several thousand pages to go..

I agree I'm on book one the imagination & the creation of worlds is crazy. But the length of 1 book & the number of books.

 

[tdogg2k]

^^ Didn't one of the show runners say the Shireen sacrifice is going to happen in the books? 

Grrm said it was a strong possibility to happen. Not outside the realm of possibility. But no not confirmed to happen in TWOW.

Isnt shireen on dragonstone anyway?

 

[Barbados Slim]

Grrm said it was a strong possibility to happen. Not outside the realm of possibility. But no not confirmed to happen in TWOW.

Isnt shireen on dragonstone anyway?

No she's at Castle Black

 

[tdogg2k]

Edric is at Dragonstone then.


and that would mean it still wouldn't be Stannis decision it would be Selyse's right. i dbout stannis is going to send a raven and say hey burn Shireen

 

[pitman13]

@Tdogg's fanboyism for Stannis is quite comical, if nothing else.

But I've found someone who's even more delusional that you @Tdogg. Preston Jacobs seems to think Stannis ordered his army to desert him and that Ramsey's attack on his men was a trick. Which is why he ran to the woods because he knew he was going to fight another day with the stronger half of his army, the sellsword.

No, I'm not making this up. Fast forward to the 5:25 mark below:





More evidence that everyone should take Preston's videos w/ a grain of salt.

 

[Barbados Slim]

That's a fair point. 

Edric is at Dragonstone then.


and that would mean it still wouldn't be Stannis decision it would be Selyse's right. i dbout stannis is going to send a raven and say hey burn Shireen

 

[tdogg2k]

@Pittman, I'm also starting to question your retention from the books....


nothing fanboy-ist about going off purely fact from the story.

just think you're blending your information book/show.

 

[pitman13]

@Pittman, I'm also starting to question your retention from the books....


nothing fanboy-ist about going off purely fact from the story.

just think you're blending your information book/show.

You said on the last page you believe Stannis is alive. I thought you were referring to the show. If not, my apologies.

Also in this thread, everyone blends and compares the books to the show. We mostly discuss the show because it's relevant as the series is moving. If we only discussed the books, this thread would be on page 25 of general.

But to clarify, show Stannis is dead. I believe book Stannis will die soon enough.
In the show, I have no idea if or how Jon will be resurrected.
In TWoW, I believe he wargs into Ghost and Meli does her Lord of the Light thing.

Lastly, if you don't like me calling you a fanboy, I'll stop. But trust, I mean no harm. Just friendly banter. But even you gotta admit, you're overzealous when it comes to all things Stannis.

 

[Barbados Slim]

@Tdogg's fanboyism for Stannis is quite comical, if nothing else.

But I've found someone who's even more delusional that you @Tdogg. Preston Jacobs seems to think Stannis ordered his army to desert him and that Ramsey's attack on his men was a trick. Which is why he ran to the woods because he knew he was going to fight another day with the stronger half of his army, the sellsword.

No, I'm not making this up. Fast forward to the 5:25 mark below:



More evidence that everyone should take Preston's videos w/ a grain of salt.

Damn I thought this was such a well done episode, but Preston just points out the faults and I realized how poorly the Stannis/Sansa/Brienne stuff was handled. 

I think I'm on team Stannis is alive now sorry @Pitman13

Not because of the video, but because a lot of people are making the same case for Stannis and that's no major character dies off camera. 

 

[pitman13]

You disappoint me, @WorldBreaker.

 

[Barbados Slim]

^^ Sorry bro

, but you have to admit. Even non important characters died on camera, they wouldn't do Stannis like that. 

 

[tdogg2k]

But to clarify, show Stannis is dead. I believe book Stannis will die soon enough.
In the show, I have no idea if or how Jon will be resurrected.
In TWoW, I believe he wargs into Ghost and Meli does her Lord of the Light thing.

Lastly, if you don't like me calling you a fanboy, I'll stop. But trust, I mean no harm. Just friendly banter. But even you gotta admit, you're overzealous when it comes to all things Stannis.

lol i dont mind being called a fanboy..
I dont take any of this in a malicious way you good. lol cuz I'ma call you stuff right back (if i ever think of anything)

I dont understand how people believe so hard jon will come back, but Stannis will die...
it's like saying you only halfway believe in Melisandre... or even better you want to believe in her for the things that you want done.....

you don't believe her about stannis, but you believe she all of a sudden has the power to bring back jon.

show and book it was inferred she doesn't have the same power as Thoros. it works different for every priest it seems.

Mel is the most skilled in her visions. but the dude with the greyjoy and thoros seems to have a sort of healing power.


I'll be honest IF she does heal jon I would take that as a huge writing cop out.... there have been plenty of people/loyalist she could have brought back...(Davos sons comes to mind - even though they were at sea).


I just dont believe GRRM will contradict this ...or throw it in as a plot no jutsu.

 

[pitman13]

@WorldBreaker I refuse believe D&D didn't kill off Stannis because of a camera angle. There's no possible way Brienne, who's wanted vengeance for the death of Renly since Season 2, will ever let Stannis live. I read on another forum that a Knight's job isn't to murder someone for using Black Magic. If anything she's supposed to bring Stannis to court. Interesting theory except, she was Renly's king guard before anything else and she loved him as she told Pod previously. A king's guard will gleefully kill the murderer of the king they were sworn to protect. I thought the "Do your duty" line by Stannis sealed his fate. Even he knew he deserved to die. I'm sorry fellas, I don't see how she'll spare him.

 

[Barbados Slim]

lol i dont mind being called a fanboy..
I dont take any of this in a malicious way you good. lol cuz I'ma call you stuff right back (if i ever think of anything)

I dont understand how people believe so hard jon will come back, but Stannis will die...
it's like saying you only halfway believe in Melisandre... or even better you want to believe in her for the things that you want done.....

you don't believe her about stannis, but you believe she all of a sudden has the power to bring back jon.

show and book it was inferred she doesn't have the same power as Thoros. it works different for every priest it seems.

Mel is the most skilled in her visions. but the dude with the greyjoy and thoros seems to have a sort of healing power.


I'll be honest IF she does heal jon I would take that as a huge writing cop out.... there have been plenty of people/loyalist she could have brought back...(Davos sons comes to mind - even though they were at sea).


I just dont believe GRRM will contradict this ...or throw it in as a plot no jutsu.

So do you think Jon is actually dead?

About his possible resurrection, maybe Mel doesn't rez him. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes maybe he reawakens as Azor Ahai or something.

 

[Barbados Slim]

@WorldBreaker I refuse believe D&D didn't kill off Stannis because of a camera angle. There's no possible way Brienne, who's wanted vengeance for the death of Renly since Season 2, will ever let Stannis live. I read on another forum that a Knight's job isn't to murder someone for using Black Magic. If anything she's supposed to bring Stannis to court. Interesting theory except, she was Renly's king guard before anything else and she loved him as she told Pod previously. A king's guard will gleefully kill the murderer of the king they were sworn to protect. I thought the "Do your duty" line by Stannis sealed his fate. Even he knew he deserved to die. I'm sorry fellas, I don't see how she'll spare him.

Maybe Brienne didn't let him live. All we hear is a sword swinging and hitting something. Maybe Brienne was struck by a sword. Maybe Pod stops her who knows. I think that's why they cut away when they did. To let the audience speculate as to why Brienne who wants Stannis dead so bad would fail to kill him. 

 

[tdogg2k]

So do you think Jon is actually dead?

About his possible resurrection, maybe Mel doesn't rez him. Like a phoenix rising from the ashes maybe he reawakens as Azor Ahai or something.

Yea i believe he is actually dead. But as far as getting resurrected. ...no. possibly warging....idk because does it work like in terms of being in there long term?

 

[nako xl]

@WorldBreaker I refuse believe D&D didn't kill off Stannis because of a camera angle. There's no possible way Brienne, who's wanted vengeance for the death of Renly since Season 2, will ever let Stannis live. I read on another forum that a Knight's job isn't to murder someone for using Black Magic. If anything she's supposed to bring Stannis to court. Interesting theory except, she was Renly's king guard before anything else and she loved him as she told Pod previously. A king's guard will gleefully kill the murderer of the king they were sworn to protect. I thought the "Do your duty" line by Stannis sealed his fate. Even he knew he deserved to die. I'm sorry fellas, I don't see how she'll spare him.

Dude, just from a story telling perspective you don't build up Melisandre and Stannis's stories to end it in a yadda yadda battle AND THEN kill him off camera. Even Maester Aemon, who died of natural causes died on camera. Stannis's no name footsoldiers all died on camera.

And no we don't even think we hear the sword hit anything. Doesn't it cut away just as Ramsey is stabbing/slashing someone. The show doesn't do cliffhangers for no reason.

Bran's "death" cliff hanger. We know he's not dead. Arya's blindness. We know she's not blind. Arya's dance teacher... See a pattern?

 

[jape]

^ i agree i don't think stannis is dead.

its also crazy to me that people think sansa and reek are dead

 

[Barbados Slim]

Yea i believe he is actually dead. But as far as getting resurrected. ...no. possibly warging....idk because does it work like in terms of being in there long term?

It's possible, but I highly doubt Jon is gonna live the remainder of his days inside Ghost. Also Jojen mention to Bran that he could forgot who he was the longer he stays in Summer. 

 

[tdogg2k]

dddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd

^ i agree i don't think stannis is dead.
its also crazy to me that people think sansa and reek are dead

Those dumb ***** in the show thread are irritating.
I don't even read half the comments now.

It's possible, but I highly doubt Jon is gonna live the remainder of his days inside Ghost. Also Jojen mention to Bran that he could forgot who he was the longer he stays in Summer. 

This is what I thought...And I doubt he'll live the rest of the 2 books in Jon snow. at the end of the day if he doesn't fully die this book he'll die on the 7th book. Everyone as we know now will probably be dead Rickon (as much as I hate to say it) may be the only one to survive as a human/man.

Jon had a complete story in my eyes..
So that's why im not all gun ho for him being alive later. if this whole knights king thing happens in the book something could be possible, but how he going to become a white walker when he's at the castle and melisandre is right there. so I'll personally throw that theory of him being a white walker out.